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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
with your T?
Because I had mine this week in therapy. It was so inane I had to acknowledge it as such.
It started with an innocuous and clearly out of place notebook lying on a table with magazines in the waiting area of my T's office.
I moved it to see what magazines were under it.
My therapist walks in and with a panic stricken looking face queries "did you move this?" while holding the notebook.
I replied that I did.
(closer to panic) "You didn't look in it did you because it's from another patient."
"No i didn't look in the notebook".
We then spent a good amount of time in the session with him trying to determine if I was mad at him for his demeanor, as if he had slapped my hand over the notebook.
It wound up with me telling him that if it was so fr*gg*ng important why did he just leave it out there where I could get to it? I WAS mad by then. I then indicated that if I had felt slapped, not to worry he would have felt slapped back.
He said "Ah! I knew it"
I then commented that this was one of the most inane conversations I had ever had in my life and that he just got a little wound up over a notebook. It happens, I can deal with it.
No talk about my new diagnosis, how I felt or pretty much anything else. Just the notebook.
Sigh.I left just shaking my head and laughing.
Somedays they can be sooooo off.
Seldom.
Posted by Annierose on September 26, 2008, at 18:59:36
In reply to What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
The fact that he left something in the waiting room of another clients is terrible. I'd be so angry.
I know what you mean about spending your session time on something that wasn't important.
My inane session was also about the waiting room. For some reason, all of my t's magazine subscriptions stopped arriving. So in September, the magazines from May and June (monthly and weekly ) were still there ... even after a three week vacation. It was a classic case of displacement. Instead of talking about the long break, I complained about the magazines. Even during the session I was ashamed of myself for going there.
Posted by seldomseen on September 27, 2008, at 12:52:21
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by Annierose on September 26, 2008, at 18:59:36
It wasn't that he left another patient's stuff out in the waiting room. I mean everyone makes mistakes like that.
It's that he insisted that I must to be mad at his reaction to it.
I mean for heaven's sake, he just got wound up over a folder. Why would I even have an opinion about that?
I think this will forever be known as the "folder incident".
Seldom
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2008, at 13:10:04
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 27, 2008, at 12:52:21
Oh the inane sessions I've had!!!
And its like at the time I know it, but seem helpless to stop it.
Guess cuz its easier than actually doing therapy LOL!
Yeah, I kinda wished those 'wasted' sessions were free!!! But then there's good ones too.
So I spose it balances out.
Funny/frustrating when it happens though.
Thanks for smiles.
One
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2008, at 13:26:52
In reply to What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
Well how did he know the notebook was under the magazine? Was it his? Just kidding. Phillipa
Posted by Wittgensteinz on September 27, 2008, at 15:16:34
In reply to What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
First I read it as 'insane' but now I look again and see 'inane'...
Well, the session I'm about to recall was both inane and a bit insane...
I see my therapist at his house. He'd told me the session before to arrive an hour earlier than usual because he was having a sun screen installed that morning at the time of our usual session. Bearing in mind it's mid-December... anyway, I go and completely forget the change in time and arrive at the normal time. He comes to the door dressed in this crazy fury hat (those you might expect to see in Russia), big coat, gloves... I tell him I'm sorry and not to worry - I'll go home but he insists on my coming in and waiting in his office. So for the next 45 minutes he pops in and out then has to go out to his garden again as they test the sun screen. I'm sitting in the chair hoping no-one outside will look into his office and see me. He tells me to "just look around, read a book while you're waiting" but I don't dare to do anything. Finally we have about 30 minutes of a session with a couple of short introductions and he finally takes his hat off. Not much of anything got done - too distracted of course - I just spent the time apologising and feeling awkward.
As for inane discussions... I think I'm the master of avoidance... so I have a whole hand of possible diversion subjects I will refer to if I don't feel like pursuing something more useful. Sometimes he lets me, sometimes not.
Witti
Posted by Looney Tunes on September 27, 2008, at 16:45:42
In reply to What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
LOL
I hate paying for these type of sessions!!!
Right now, all my sessions are inane (or is that insane?) because I sit there trying to figure out where to start. And then I usually make a comment about the office color.
The best one I probably had was about the level of DUST on the chair or the dirt on the floor. What a waste.
And then they say "good work today."
Yeah, whatever.
Posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 0:41:35
In reply to What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
You should tell him, "sometimes a notebook is just a notebook.";)
Lucie
Posted by seldomseen on September 28, 2008, at 7:02:08
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever » seldomseen, posted by Wittgensteinz on September 27, 2008, at 15:16:34
That hat would've done me in for sure.
I say my T in a straw "sun" hat - you know the kind old ladies wear when they are gardening? It was complete with the strap that ties at the chin.
I just had to laugh and think "alright he's wearing a gardening hat, he must really want to keep the sun off his face."
But the russian hat. Man I would have just lost it completely.
Seldom.
Posted by seldomseen on September 28, 2008, at 7:13:06
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by Looney Tunes on September 27, 2008, at 16:45:42
Yeah, dust levels are good. I will admit that over the years we've also
1. spent some time trying to track down a ticking sound in his office.
2. straightening a picture on the wall, only to end up taking it down. Then discussing how it left a real blank space on the wall.
3. Opening and closing blinds which were stuck
4. Trying to figure out why a cabinet door magically opens.
5. Discussing how the lids from the coffee place next door leak (this was a standard conversation until he moved his office).
6. Finding coasters.
7. Looking for prescription pads/checkbooks/figuring out my PDA.
8. Discussing the contents/origin/condition of various books in his office.
Of course anything new in his office has to be thoroughly investigated, discussed prior to therapy.
All of this at about 3 dollars a minute.
Ah therapy.
Seldom.
Posted by seldomseen on September 28, 2008, at 7:14:29
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » seldomseen, posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 0:41:35
that's a good one,
but I've been with him long enough to know that he would counter with "but what I'm interested in is what the notebook means to you..."
Seldom
Posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 10:47:16
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » lucie lu, posted by seldomseen on September 28, 2008, at 7:14:29
Posted by Nadezda on September 28, 2008, at 10:51:51
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » lucie lu, posted by seldomseen on September 28, 2008, at 7:14:29
I can definitely see that the pressure of your need to talk the diagnosis and the sense of yourself that it affects about that would make your T a bit tone-deaf in insisting on talking about the interaction in the waiting room. So, I really do understand where you're coming from-- and would be frustrated, too, if my T were so off-base in going off on such a tangent from my pressing issues.
I wanted to say a few words on your T's behalf, though. I can really see why, from his point of view, that would be an important and potentially important thing to delve into. From his point of view, he had badly screwed up in leaving confidential information there where you might be tempted to look into it. I mean he must have felt terrible embarrassed, frightened of the implications, and worried that you might be mistrustful of his guarding of your privacy, as well as possibly knowing something upsetting about another patient. It really could have been quite a mess-- if you had looked at the notebook-- or even if, less disastrously, you'd wanted to and resisted the temptation, but now felt queasy about it all. So, he probably was very caught up in damage control-- because, on top of all that, he sort of accused you of violating someone's privacy -- when, in fact, he had put you in harms' way-- so he must have felt quite guilty about his first reaction and worried that he had upset you.
Now I agree that you might have been completely uninterested in the notebook-- a notebook is only as intriguing as you feel it is-- for sure. But at the same time-- I wonder if his implicit accusation, or concern, might not have bothered you. Maybe it didn't. I guess it's always hard to evaluate these things-- but I do feel rather bad for your poor T- because not only did he screw up with the notebook, he pushed you completely off-course with his over=concern with your reaction. He probably began banging his head against the wall right after you left.
I have had inane conversations with my T-- usually about some movie that's the latest thing, or about politics, or something else equally silly-- and we agree that we've somewhat played hooky. But this type of inanity seems to be a but more serious-- and I guess shows that so far, your T doesn't quite get how focussed you are on the issues around your mood and the diagnosis.
Have pity on the poor guy.
Nadezda
Posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 11:01:15
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever » seldomseen, posted by Wittgensteinz on September 27, 2008, at 15:16:34
Witti,Now you can never be intimidated by your T again. You know how they always say to picture someone in the bathroom? All you'll have to do is think of that hat. The Great Equalizer.
Actually, Witti, that's probably a sign of his regard for you :) If he thought you would have gone off the rails, he probably would have canceled you for that day.
My T always manages to dress in an understated but good sort of way - usually a suit due to some of the clients he needs to see. But I know that behind his door, hanging up, he often has a completely disreputable, beat-up black leather jacket that looks like he picked it up at a thrift store. When I first saw it, made me wonder if I paid him enough (but only for about 5 sec).
These stories are fun.
Lucie
Posted by seldomseen on September 29, 2008, at 7:21:38
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by Nadezda on September 28, 2008, at 10:51:51
Just about everything you said in your post has crossed my mind since the session. You're absolutely right, the notebook incident is proving not to be so inane after all.
I can certainly see how it was a big deal for him.
However, what is emerging as a big deal to me is the concept of "slapping my hand" - something that he said over and over again.
This phrase is what eventually made me mad during the session and continues to nag at me. The notion of him slapping my hand is so condescending.
The idea of him even thinking he is in a position where he could "slap my hand" - as though I were a naughty toddler - is upsetting.
I am a strong competent woman who is struggling right now with some pretty big mental health issues.
These issues do not negate my personal efficacy or the equality in the relationship that I should have with my therapist.
I've been in therapy for a long time. It has been many many years since I viewed the relationship as having a power differential. In fact, if anything, I have felt as though if there were a differential, I was the "power player" so to speak because, ultimately I pay him for his services. But that differential is negligible. It has felt like "we" for years.
I question though, what he thinks now.
I work with a lot of physicians and am privvy to the way in which most physicians and providers think about their patients. Every now and again, a physician will pop up with the "I know everything and my patients are stupid sheep" type philosophy. Those doctors, in my experience, are actually quite rare. Even in those rare instances, I have never heard one use the phrase "slap their hand" in reference to a patient. Never.
Once again, I wish he had just kept his mouth shut about the incident and let me tell him how I felt about it (which was no feeling at all). His insistence and repetitious use of demeaning language has caused this to blossom into a serious serious rift.
Seldom
Posted by Dinah on September 29, 2008, at 7:56:17
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » Nadezda, posted by seldomseen on September 29, 2008, at 7:21:38
I'm pretty sure I have used that expression in cases where I didn't see a power differential. Sometimes, especially with colloquialisms, there are differences between individuals in the precise understanding.
I can't remember any exact context, but I think there may have been times I referred to slapping my therapist's hand when he inadvertently encroached on my personal boundaries. And vice versa. It hurts when he does it. I wonder if he hurts when I do it?
It may have come up with my husband as well.
I can see a few levels where I'd be upset, if my therapist did that. I sure as heck wouldn't want to spend a whole session on it. The fact that he couldn't let it go may reflect his anxiety over leaving the notebook out rather than your demeanor. Although they do know us so well that sometimes they pick up on irritations we haven't really acknowledged to ourselves.
By the way, IMO it's his hand that should be slapped, not yours. Even if you had idly picked up the notebook in thoughts that it had been placed out for that purpose.
Posted by lucie lu on September 29, 2008, at 17:23:26
In reply to What's the most inane conversation you've ever had, posted by seldomseen on September 26, 2008, at 17:59:56
Seldom,
I wrote a pretty wrong reply earlier and just realized it's not here - I must have deleted it! Damn! I am having a very bad time with my posting recently. This is the third time this week. Where is my head? Anyway, enough about me and my challenges.
While your thread title produced some playful responses (including mine), as I reread your post I realized how really pissed you are. I don't blame you either. My guess is that he kept asking you because he felt guilty and realized that you had every right to be annoyed with him. First, IMHO, he should never have mentioned to you that it belonged to another patient. To me, that is sort of creepy. And it leaves him protecting this previous patient (and himself) and not you, who should have been protected from an awkward situation like that. Second, it didn't sound from your account like he took much responsibility for his own poor response to the situation. That was a pretty stupid way for him to carry on - what if you had looked, what would he do? A brain drain? I think he should have apologized profusely, even if he didn't have the presence of mind to do it then, at least during the session. It disturbs me to think that he spent all his time on that hand-slapping business (which you're right, is insulting) instead of taking complete responsibility for making a mistake and then acting like an *ss on top of it.
Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago. As I was leaving, at the door I must have said or done something and my T visibly flinched. It was small and seemingly inconsequential, so much so that I thought I imagined the response and an inner sense of discomfort (rejection?) within me. I wasn't even going to bring it up, but at the next session, my T jumped right in before we started with a sincere apology, taking complete responsibility for the interaction, which he said was all him and not me. He never denied the incident or pretended that I didn't experience it. I felt validated, respected, valued, and we grew closer through that exchange. Plus he was modeling behavior that we are supposed to be learning in therapy - he did a great job of rupture reparation. That ended up being one of the more meaningful transactions we have had in therapy. All because he had the decency to produce a genuine apology and own his thoughts and actions.
I wish your T had done something like this but it sounds as though he didn't. Maybe he was just caught flat-footed. It happens. And maybe like mine, he will come in to the next session in better shape and prepared to do the decent thing. Hope so. If not, I think you should hold his feet to the fire on this one.
Sorry if this is choppy - my first version was totally eloquent (lol)
Lucie
Posted by seldomseen on September 30, 2008, at 2:56:43
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » seldomseen, posted by Dinah on September 29, 2008, at 7:56:17
Dinah,
It may well be a a simple turn of a phrase.
It's just so darn irritating and minimizing.
I also could be mad at him for something else entirely I don't know.
I've been so irritable lately I may just be mad at the world and decided to focus on him.
I don't know.
Seldom
Posted by seldomseen on September 30, 2008, at 4:23:06
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » seldomseen, posted by lucie lu on September 29, 2008, at 17:23:26
Well, he never apologized and everyone is right - it was his fault for leaving the stupid notebook out in the waiting room. I mean geez, he even left it on the table with reading materials for his patients!
Clearly he was caught flat footed, but I don't hold out much hope that he'll bring it up next session. I was pretty clear that I didn't want to waste any more time on it, yet here I am - wasting more time on it.
Anyway. We'll discuss this at my next session. (there goes another session down the drain) and then hopefully we can get back to the real work facing me.
Most of the acute anger has passed and I should be able to discuss it without being confrontational. Although we'll see how I feel tomorrow.
Frankly, I know I'll never know if his vernacular indicates how he feels professionally about his patients or if the "slap my hand" was just a turn of the phrase.
It'll come down to whether I decide to trust him once again. There is a lot of history that suggests I can trust him.
I'll keep you posted (that pun just never gets old for me).
Seldom
Posted by Nadezda on October 2, 2008, at 17:22:33
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » Nadezda, posted by seldomseen on September 29, 2008, at 7:21:38
Hi, Seldomseen.
I've been thinking about you and your T and wondering how it's been going.
I can really identify with your reaction of being treated, or imagined, as a child, in his saying "slapped your hand." But often people think of one another in myriad ways- they appear indifference guises at different times. One can see them among other things, as childish or as a child, without denying their standing as an adult.. It occurred to me that maybe he was shifting the accusation into a minor key-- making it seem silly rather than serious-- substituting a cookie jar for a violation of boundaries, or invasion of privacy, etc. That's such a heavy accusation--that maybe he verbally fudged, to get himself-- and in a way, you-- off the hook.
And you, being more worried about just having received a diagnosis-- about how you'll be seen, particularly by fellow professionals, despite being formally in treatment for a "disease"--might have replayed that in a scenario about a possible view of you as less than a full-fledged member of the community. It's so hard to know why people use phrases, what meanings or derivations, or insinuations they suggest.
So I wondered if you and he had revisited this last meeting, and if so, if you had a meeting of the minds about the encounter-- and also were able to move from there to something fruitful.
Nadezda
Posted by seldomseen on October 2, 2008, at 18:32:42
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » seldomseen, posted by Nadezda on October 2, 2008, at 17:22:33
We did revisit it yesterday actually. He says that it was just a phrasing and I believe him.
I did tell him that I was a competent woman that was having a rather hard time right now etc...
He absolutely agreed. He said that while we clearly had different roles in the therapy dynamic, there was no "toddler" feeling there.
I'm rather like a bear at times I think. When a bear feels threatened they will charge, usually not with the intent to attack, but to simply scare off the threat. They will snort and cavort about. It works.
I do that sometimes when I feel threatened, my therapist understands this and just lets me cavort about until I get to the real issue - that, like the bear, I'm scared.
I couldn't understand what was/is happening to me and naming it seemed to make it much worse. I couldn't even really find the words to describe how I was feeling.
Once I finished cavorting he emphasized that he views my current state as a blending of the remnants of past abuse conflated with strong bipolar "tendencies". (Be sure to read that with the hand quotes around tendencies).
I have had a *lot* of triggers lately that have significantly threatened my sense of security.
Jokes aside, I think this is actually correct and is going to serve as the middle of the road. I simply can not and do not have to absorb the same diagnosis as one of my primary abusers. He reiterated that he is not a big "diagnosis" kind of guy, what matters is how I feel.
Which right now is better. I feel a lot less crazy and whole lot more understood both by him and by myself.
Thank you so much for thinking about me and for listening.
Take care
Seldom
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 12:39:56
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever had » Nadezda, posted by seldomseen on October 2, 2008, at 18:32:42
I was wondering how that went. Thanks for letting us know. Mind you, I have a lot of faith in your relationship with your therapist.
Posted by elanor roosevelt on October 5, 2008, at 22:33:08
In reply to Re: What's the most inane conversation you've ever » Wittgensteinz, posted by seldomseen on September 28, 2008, at 7:02:08
Here is what is really happening
Your T got a call from a panicked client who had left the book
the client requested complete respect for privacythe T couldn't wait to take a peek and had to face the music when he saw you had moved the book
his guilt about what he was intending got turned into an accusatory attitude towards you
i hate when T's want to analyze why you are late for your appointment
This is the end of the thread.
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