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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
If I let conversations drop without replying or in any other way have been rude.
My incompetence has been crashing in on me suddenly. In all aspects of my life. I don't like doing things I can't do well, in this case life. The thoughts have been coming back. I don't think my therapist takes it too seriously, because it's so sudden. Or maybe he's gotten used to my being "better", and doesn't want me to feel bad.
I feel like I'm rapidly approaching shutdown, if I haven't gotten there already. I just want to curl up and die. Not that I'll do anything affirmative about it. And wishing doesn't seem to work.
I think I got my first hot flash last night. Either that or some diabetic thing. I feel awful on so many levels.
Posted by lemonaide on October 1, 2008, at 12:15:31
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
((((DInah))))) I am sorry things feel so bad for you, physically and emotionally. Is there something that happened that you think caused the downward spiral? I know hormones can mess up a lot of different stuff, do you think that could be part of it?
Posted by softheprairie on October 1, 2008, at 12:38:05
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
Dinah,
I'm mostly a lurker, but thought I'd send some love your way :) As I've gotten into reading Babble in the past few months, I've been blown away at the high quality of your posts and how much you carry the board. So, even if you have to take a break or end leading this area, I'll still appreciate all you've already done here.
Posted by Tabitha on October 1, 2008, at 13:07:10
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
an unnecessary apology :)
((((Dinah))))
I'm sorry you're feeling overwhelmed.
Posted by muffled on October 1, 2008, at 14:07:28
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
Hormones just make it all harder.
Sorry you in a bad place.
Its a good sign if you think you going crazy, cuz then you aren't. Hmmm thats what I tell myself anyways.
Have you had a good physical? Meds monitoring? etc?
Have you got too much on your plate?
Maybe you can post here and sort stuff out.
Mebbe get some ideas.
Hope you can feel better soon.
Try and take care of the physical body.
(((Dinah)))
Muffled
Posted by Nadezda on October 1, 2008, at 18:45:08
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
I'm sure this is something urgent and very real to you, Dinah-- but try to remember: it's only that you feel incompetent at life, not that you are-- you are so very thoughtful, full of wisdom and deep understanding. I know that's different from feeling it yourself--or appreciating how much it means to other people.
I guess this is what they mean in DBT when they say that a feeling isn't a fact; that it can often be mistaken, or disproportionate to the events-- and that it needs to be seen as that-- a feeling and not a fact about the world. (Sometimes, of course, it is a fact.) I wish there were some way for us to interrupt this cascade of thoughts and fears and self-accusations.
But I also know what it's like to be caught in their shadow. It's important to remember the resources against these feelings--whether it's meditation, or a hot shower, or giving yourself permission to take a break-- but if you try not to let them overwhelm you, you may at least lessen the storm. You are, after all, much more than the feelings of this moment.
Or maybe if you can find the trigger-- the letdown from the threat of the hurricane, something in your family, or perhaps the combination of physical discomfort and exhaustion--you'll find some relief there..
Whatever it takes, you've certainly been thoughtful and kind far beyond what's expected to me, and I know to many of us here.
Nadezda
Posted by Annierose on October 1, 2008, at 18:45:44
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
First off, I hope you feel like yourself again soon ... the happy self.
The shutdown feeling must be scary. Did something trigger this feeling?
Maybe your hormones are affecting your mood. I suffered night sweats two weeks ago ... aging is no fun at all. I was hoping by the time I reached menopaused, smart people would have all this figured out ... as in no symptoms.
Thinking about you. Hoping this feeling passes soon.
Posted by Phillipa on October 1, 2008, at 19:04:11
In reply to Re: My apologies to all, posted by Annierose on October 1, 2008, at 18:45:44
Seriously if men are the ones reseaching hormones they will never get it? Dinah you do more for others than anyone I know. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 19:28:54
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
Thanks you guys.
softheprairie, that was such a nice thing to say. And Tabitha, I haven't gotten a pinch in a long time. I must be doing better in (not) apologizing. I just worried that I'd left threads midconversation, and didn't want people to think I didn't appreciate their words. I'm just getting stuck in the reply part.
It probably does have something to do with hormones. The drop was so steep and swift. But there was some real life stuff as well, things that hit me hard personally. But not mine to tell. I suppose those few areas where I feel competent are the ones where I'm most vulnerable. I've also got some killer deadlines coming up in the next month, and I feel less and less capable of rising to the challenge.
I suppose at the very end of the session, my therapist did get that I was serious. I don't often remain in my seat when he gives the session over signal. I was honest what I needed from him, and he tried to give it. It's probably my fault he didn't get it earlier. I was joking around a lot. At one point I smiled and said I was whining, and he agreed, also smiling. And I really was, so it was ok.
Probably hormones...
But also the fact that if given the chance, I'd rather avoid than confront. So things have a way of all exploding at once. But sooner or later it will be possible to avoid them again, I suppose. Maybe not the healthiest way to live.
Posted by lucie lu on October 1, 2008, at 21:09:03
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
Dinah,
There's nothing wrong with feeling under both the gun and the weather, and needing some hugs from people who care about you. The fact that you just posted this morning and already have so many replies should tell you something. You are really loved and respected on this board. I think we are all happy to give back something in return for all you have generously given to us. Whether hormones or just a bunch of big waves coming through (or both), we care about you and are here for you to hold onto. Without keeping score. Sometimes the board gets busy and sometimes our lives just get busy. But over time, you are one of the most consistent and ever-present people here, so that's one of the last things you should worry about. You are one of the people who make Babble work. Let us know how we can help you.
Hope you feel better soon.
Love, Lucie
Posted by obsidian on October 1, 2008, at 21:44:19
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
Oh Dinah please!! don't worry about it. It sounds like you are having such a hard time right now. Please take good care of yourself. (((you)))
Posted by obsidian on October 1, 2008, at 21:51:34
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
> My incompetence has been crashing in on me suddenly. In all aspects of my life. I don't like doing things I can't do well, in this case life. The thoughts have been coming back. I don't think my therapist takes it too seriously, because it's so sudden. Or maybe he's gotten used to my being "better", and doesn't want me to feel bad.I think I might feel some things like that right now. and I don't want my therapist to know that I am not doing well right now. I even imagined leaving it out somehow, but that just doesn't feel right. I don't like not telling the truth though.
>
> I feel like I'm rapidly approaching shutdown, if I haven't gotten there already. I just want to curl up and die. Not that I'll do anything affirmative about it. And wishing doesn't seem to work.yeah, I've my own version of that theme, wanting to curl up and die
> I think I got my first hot flash last night. Either that or some diabetic thing. I feel awful on so many levels.
I hope things improve for you soon.
Posted by seldomseen on October 2, 2008, at 6:15:17
In reply to My apologies to all, posted by Dinah on October 1, 2008, at 11:28:52
Dinah,
I am so sorry that you are not feeling very well right now.
You are certainly competent in my eyes (perhaps you could borrow them for a while).
it just seems to me that a lot has been going on with you, and a certain backlash may be expected.
Take it easy on yourself, life IS hard.
Therapists can be so slow sometimes. He'll come through eventually.
Take care and post when you feel like it.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 13:02:01
In reply to Re: My apologies to all, posted by seldomseen on October 2, 2008, at 6:15:17
About how tempted I am to act out physically with self harm to let him know how I feel because I communicate better that way. And how I wasn't going to do that, because now he's real to me and I know he actually cares. I'm almost positive he stifled a laugh at that. But he really tried to listen and express his understanding of what I'm feeling.
He did agree that I'm not too good at communicating it to him. That I tend to minimize or intellectualize it. Or laugh as I talk to him about it. But telling him that I needed him to understand was enough for him to understand. And since all I really needed was for him to acknowledge it, that was enough.
He'd been annoying me by playing twenty questions with me. When did this start, what exactly did it feel like, what am I thinking. Or reminding me of how quickly these feelings pass for me. How soon I'll have "forgotten" or avoided again. It just pushes me back to minimizing and intellectualizing, and encourages me to not communicate how I actually feel right now.
We also talked about my perception that I now needed to protect him from my bad feelings because I now actually believed he did care. Or how I was afraid he'd have to take a step back to detachment in order to really hear me. And I didn't want that, and would be likely to minimize just to keep the dynamic the same.
I think it is getting a bit better, actually. It's coming and going now, instead of just staying. If things can just be calm for a bit so I can regain equilibrium.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 16:58:43
In reply to I talked today to my therapist, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 13:02:01
I am so immature with him when I'm like this.
I actually stamped my foot on the phone with him just now. Literally.
I like that he understands that I need to approach him from that angle sometimes, without pretense. I like that he takes it in stride when I whine or whimper. I even like that he laughs at me a bit even while he takes me seriously. It reminds me of Daddy.
I really like how he can meet me wherever I am, and is flexible enough not to make a big deal of it.
I feel enough better that I think I can make a serious try at accomplishing the things I need to do to actually make some things really better.
My therapist is just right for me.
Posted by lucie lu on October 3, 2008, at 17:23:26
In reply to Re: I talked today to my therapist, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 16:58:43
Dinah,
For the nth time, I find myself marveling at the close relationship between you and your T. I'm so glad you have him :)
Sounds like maybe you're feeling a bit better?
Hope so.Lucie
Posted by DAisym on October 3, 2008, at 18:53:21
In reply to I talked today to my therapist, posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 13:02:01
Isn't it amazing how much better we are getting at verbalizing our attachment needs? We think we need to act out to get them to take us seriously. But really, we don't. We just have to say it - and you nailed it, we have to say it like we mean it. Wanting our therapists to sort through the defenses and really see us, isn't a bad thing. But sometimes I think they are used to us being fairly sophisticated in expressing what is going on within. They forget that when we get overwhelmed, we are likely to regress, intellectualize or minimize - or all of it together. I also think my therapist likes my intellectual self so it takes him awhile to realize what I'm keeping him away from.
I'm glad you are feeling better. And it is perfectly OK to stomp your dainty foot. :)
Posted by seldomseen on October 3, 2008, at 19:18:51
In reply to Re: I talked today to my therapist, posted by DAisym on October 3, 2008, at 18:53:21
You're right Daisy, we do regress and relapse and basically revert. My therapist and I were talking about that in my last session actually.
How I had reverted to not having the right wording, and, of course, trying to scare him off.
I'm amazed that after all this time, those old patterns can still surface.
It is so nice to have a therapist that knows us well enough to know that under the "foot stamping" is just *us* trying as hard as we can and can meet us there.
I just kind of wish i could rid myself of this feeling that I'm letting them down. Intellectually, I know I'm not. But in my gut well, that's a different story sometimes.
Seldom.
Posted by DAisym on October 3, 2008, at 19:29:03
In reply to Re: I talked today to my therapist - dinah » DAisym, posted by seldomseen on October 3, 2008, at 19:18:51
Letting them down how?
I think my therapist would say he expects all of this - he has this speech about how therapy is a spiral and we go around and around things over and over again.
And, I think we tend to think of therapy as something we go to and get "fixed." The reality is, it helps us know who we are and how we best cope with things. But life throws curve balls and we all need support to handle them. And during really intense situations, human beings - those in and those out if therapy - revert to old coping mechanisms that were ingrained so long ago. I think "we" -- those of us who have had some therapy, tend to recognize that we are using old coping/ineffectual coping methods faster. So we can change things up faster.
Therapy helps me know myself - even the bad parts. My therapist isn't disappointed that those parts don't disappear; in fact, he'd like me to not be so harsh with myself.
I've asked time and again about disappointing him, or him hating me, or being disgusted, etc. etc. He tells me that it gets hard for him when I don't talk to him but even then he knows I'm trying.
I highly doubt your therapist is disappointed in you.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 23:48:15
In reply to Re: I talked today to my therapist, posted by lucie lu on October 3, 2008, at 17:23:26
I'd say I'm feeling better sometimes. I seem to start off the day feeling rotten, then I get a bit less morose and anxious and whatever as the day goes on.
He really is terrific. I forget that sometimes in the day to day frustrations.
Posted by Dinah on October 3, 2008, at 23:59:56
In reply to Re: I talked today to my therapist, posted by DAisym on October 3, 2008, at 18:53:21
Well, as Stephanie on Newhart said about Joanne, I'm more likely to stamp my gunboats. Dainty they aren't.
I really think my therapist prefers my emotional self to my intellectual self. He certainly falls asleep less. But I do think he's been used to my being "better". We've been doing a lot of work along spiritual lines lately. It took him a bit to recognize that I was back to totally unreasonable and in need of something different from him.
I think he was pleased that I used my words to tell him what I needed. He had the sense not to say so at the time, but I could feel it. I was getting pretty frustrated because I lose my words sometimes. Less frequently now than I used to.
Posted by Dinah on October 4, 2008, at 0:08:23
In reply to Re: I talked today to my therapist - dinah » DAisym, posted by seldomseen on October 3, 2008, at 19:18:51
I definitely had the feeling that I was letting him down. Or maybe that he wouldn't like me if I acted the way I used to. He smiled and it sounded as if he meant it when he said he still liked me just fine.
There is definitely a different feel to our relationship now, and it has pluses and minuses. I don't want to lose the place where I can be my totally warty worst self. Yet I don't want to lose my therapist's positive regard. And I don't want to feel like he's managing me. Which of course he sometimes does when I'm feeling unreasonable and acting badly.
I'm not so unreasonable as to think I can have it all. He struck a nice note today in balancing the two.
This is the end of the thread.
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