![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by turtle on September 28, 2008, at 13:48:50
What does it really mean to be attached to your therapist, or anyone else for that matter? I know a few intellectual facts about attachment and that there are different styles of attachment. But I don't really understand it on a deep or personal level.
I feel a desire to be close to my therapist and to be open to her. Is that attachment? How do you know you are attached? How do you reattach if you are already attached to begin with? What does it really mean to your therapy process?
It feels a little strange to pick out a therapist, who really starts out as a paid stranger, and within those bounds explore the mysteries of attachment and intimacy. On a deep level I know I want to do this process and need to work on my attachment issues for healing, but intellectually it seems like I'm just setting myself up for a very painful experience.
Thanks,
Turtle
Posted by JayMac on September 28, 2008, at 18:15:38
In reply to attachment, posted by turtle on September 28, 2008, at 13:48:50
Turtle! I can so totally relate!!! Where do you live? We need to hang out! Lol.....
I've been having a real difficult time with "attachment" lately. I know what the theorists say about it. I know what my T says. But it's still soooooo incredibly difficult to define. I feel like to capture the depth and meaing of the relationship would be like capturing the depth of the universe.
Let me share something with you, I just realized this yesterday: There is a difference between being open with someone and being attached/connected to someone. Being open with someone does not guarantee an attachment/a connection. I entered therapy thinking that if I just told her most everything on my mind, that I would become closer to her, but really and truly, that's not how the process works. The attachment/connection is emotional. For example, do you ever find yourself liking someone, being drawn towards someone for no obvious reason? I think it's kind of like that. Developing *that* sort of feeling is sooooo incredibly special that it takes a long, long time.
The whole process of therapy is painful. I have a very difficult time with the pain, with the hurt. Not too long ago, I wanted to stop therapy because of the pain.
Honestly, I second guess whether or not I'm attached to my T. Sometimes I feel so attached that leaving her office is like taking away my life source. Other times I feel myself (at first unconsciously) rejecting her comfort. I feel myself finding excuses to be mad at her. Then, I'll come crying back to her. I get angry at myself for being mad and angry for not maintaining the attachment. It's been a cycle. I'm so grateful she's patient, she understands, and she's there. I do think it takes time, I just wish I knew how long.
I've also struggled with the fact that I feel like I'm only a "patient" and it's more of a business transaction. She told me that our relationship is real and she's a real person. I began to think of our relationship as a friendship and mother-daughter relationship, but here and there I get resentful that I feel like just another patient. It's a struggle.
In a way, the sort of relationship that is cultivated between therapist and patient is unexplainable, scared, and life-changing.
I don't know how helpful I am, but that's a glimses of my experience and knowledge.
Take good care. Peace.
Posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 21:15:30
In reply to attachment, posted by turtle on September 28, 2008, at 13:48:50
> What does it really mean to be attached to your therapist, or anyone else for that matter? I know a few intellectual facts about attachment and that there are different styles of attachment. But I don't really understand it on a deep or personal level.
>
> I feel a desire to be close to my therapist and to be open to her. Is that attachment? How do you know you are attached? How do you reattach if you are already attached to begin with? What does it really mean to your therapy process?
>
> It feels a little strange to pick out a therapist, who really starts out as a paid stranger, and within those bounds explore the mysteries of attachment and intimacy. On a deep level I know I want to do this process and need to work on my attachment issues for healing, but intellectually it seems like I'm just setting myself up for a very painful experience.Turtle, this is such a rich topic to explore! I know I have spent the past several years trying to figure out what it all means. It does seem strange to start out such a deep and complex process as perfect strangers. But most relationships do, don't they? And like others, therapeutic attachment takes time to develop between both people. But what makes them different is that unlike the uncertainty of RL relationships, the therapeutic one starts with the assumption that the T wishes to build a certain kind of relationship with you - open, committed, safe - that focuses entirely on you. That's their professional starting position. But then, where the two of you take the relationship from there is entirely a function of you two as human beings. As the relationship grows and you get to know each other, attachment grows because of the work you do together, which is deeply meaningful to both of you. That fosters attachment. They are interested, caring, and focused on your welfare; you try to be increasingly more open and vulnerable and allow yourself to rely on her. You're both exhibiting behaviors that promote attachment and mutual caring. This is also why it is so much like a good parent-child attachment bond - one many of us have not experienced when we were young. But I really believe that we are all hard-wired as humans to seek such attachments. In therapy we have a chance to just let it happen.
I think attachment is pretty much akin to closeness, and that means different things to different people. To me, it has a lot to do with trust - allowing someone to come in close to me. My T said that to him, it means being engaged with another person. You can do both in therapy.
Having said all that, no matter how good any relationship is, there will be times of discord. Ruptures, small or large (slight misattunement to blow-up), in relationships happen constantly. Small, almost imperceptible, example: you are talking and notice your T isn't quite getting you. You try harder and your T takes more of a mistep, maybe misunderstands what you're saying. You're starting to get annoyed. Your T sees this, makes a mental readjustment to get back on track, and uses words to make you feel understood and back on track and in accord. That type of rupture and repair happens all the time. Fights, apology, making up, reconnecting, all part of the same process. In bad relationships, ruptures may occur but without repair; probably happened a lot when we were children. What the T tries to model in therapy is how ruptures get repaired within relationships AND that you can remain attached despite the inevitable ruptures.
Sorry, didn't mean to write a book! Just some thoughts... obviously an important topic for me too and one I have wrestled with.
Lucie
> Thanks,
> Turtle
>
Posted by onceupon on September 29, 2008, at 13:27:42
In reply to attachment, posted by turtle on September 28, 2008, at 13:48:50
> What does it really mean to be attached to your therapist, or anyone else for that matter? I know a few intellectual facts about attachment and that there are different styles of attachment. But I don't really understand it on a deep or personal level.
I've read some of the theory too and when I see descriptions of "secure" attachments, I think of feeling as if the person that one attaches to feels like a safe space. I watch my son and believe (hope) that he feels securely attached to me because he is comfortable going away from me, but likes to know where I am, so he knows that he can come back too.
People also write about being able to hold a caring picture of someone else in your mind as indicative of attachment. Or maybe it's just about feeling accepted or knowing that you feel less anxious (at least most of the time) in this person's presence. Can you tell I'm not sure myself about the answer to this!
> I feel a desire to be close to my therapist and to be open to her. Is that attachment? How do you know you are attached? How do you reattach if you are already attached to begin with? What does it really mean to your therapy process?It sounds like you're describing a desire for attachment. Which is probably the first step. With a previous therapist, I mostly got to the point where I didn't hate myself in her presence. Where I knew and trusted that she would respond supportively to the best of her ability, and that, at least sometimes, I could work things out with her if I felt misheard or misunderstood. I don't know if that's attachment or not. But it felt secure for the most part.
> It feels a little strange to pick out a therapist, who really starts out as a paid stranger, and within those bounds explore the mysteries of attachment and intimacy. On a deep level I know I want to do this process and need to work on my attachment issues for healing, but intellectually it seems like I'm just setting myself up for a very painful experience.It is pretty bizarre, isn't it? I know that I'm paying for a service, ultimately. But maybe we can frame that service as one that helps us to better relate to others. And since it's a lot easier to learn through experience than through more abstract means, like reading about the topic, the therapist is just using the best tool available (him or herself). If the therapist is good, and there is time, hopefully they will work with their clients around learning how to say goodbye in a non-traumatic way.
> Thanks,
> Turtle
>
Posted by turtle on October 1, 2008, at 21:41:44
In reply to Re: attachment » turtle, posted by JayMac on September 28, 2008, at 18:15:38
> Let me share something with you, I just realized this yesterday: There is a difference between being open with someone and being attached/connected to someone. Being open with someone does not guarantee an attachment/a connection. I entered therapy thinking that if I just told her most everything on my mind, that I would become closer to her, but really and truly, that's not how the process works. The attachment/connection is emotional. For example, do you ever find yourself liking someone, being drawn towards someone for no obvious reason? I think it's kind of like that. Developing *that* sort of feeling is sooooo incredibly special that it takes a long, long time.
>
JayMacI think that you maybe be on the right track here. I'm not sure I'd discount the role that being open and saying most of what is on your mind plays in this though. You've taken tremendous risks to tell her about some painful feelings, and this gave her a chance to react in ways that strengthened your bond. It sounds like your efforts to honestly show as much of yourself as you can and to connect on a personal level have had a positive effect on your connection.
You are right though, being open in itself is not enough. The whole thing involves some mysterious mix of her qualities that allowed you to feel safe enough to share, your vulnerability and honesty, her responses, your receptiveness, and your emotions.
Thanks,
Turtle
Posted by turtle on October 1, 2008, at 21:46:09
In reply to Re: attachment, posted by lucie lu on September 28, 2008, at 21:15:30
> Turtle, this is such a rich topic to explore! I know I have spent the past several years trying to figure out what it all means. It does seem strange to start out such a deep and complex process as perfect strangers. But most relationships do, don't they? And like others, therapeutic attachment takes time to develop between both people. But what makes them different is that unlike the uncertainty of RL relationships, the therapeutic one starts with the assumption that the T wishes to build a certain kind of relationship with you - open, committed, safe - that focuses entirely on you. That's their professional starting position. But then, where the two of you take the relationship from there is entirely a function of you two as human beings. As the relationship grows and you get to know each other, attachment grows because of the work you do together, which is deeply meaningful to both of you. That fosters attachment. They are interested, caring, and focused on your welfare; you try to be increasingly more open and vulnerable and allow yourself to rely on her. You're both exhibiting behaviors that promote attachment and mutual caring. This is also why it is so much like a good parent-child attachment bond - one many of us have not experienced when we were young. But I really believe that we are all hard-wired as humans to seek such attachments. In therapy we have a chance to just let it happen.
>
> I think attachment is pretty much akin to closeness, and that means different things to different people. To me, it has a lot to do with trust - allowing someone to come in close to me. My T said that to him, it means being engaged with another person. You can do both in therapy.
>Lucie
Your response was both beautifully worded and touching in content. You must have a close and loving relationship with your therapist.
I think you found the areas that I'm struggling with. You already feel and know several assumptions that are new concepts to me. Am I able to form this kind of connection? Is it really allowed? Is it allowed specifically for *me*? A therapist would actually want and expect and offer this? Will I repulse her if I get close? She bonds too? I can "just let it happen" and I don't have to know how to first? I'm trying to allow myself to both open to this risk and to wrap my brain around it all.
Your version of the process both warms my heart in what feels a little like a childlike wonderment "really, for me?" and makes me want to cry at the same time.
My childhood was lacking, my adult relationships have mostly been lonely and at times abusive, and my first therapist was very cold and reserved with me the entire two years before abruptly terminating me. Even my friends only "get in" so far. My new therapist's warmth and acceptance is opening up a new world for me.
I've been holding your version of how it goes close.
Thank you!
Turtle
Posted by turtle on October 1, 2008, at 21:51:55
In reply to Re: attachment, posted by onceupon on September 29, 2008, at 13:27:42
> I've read some of the theory too and when I see descriptions of "secure" attachments, I think of feeling as if the person that one attaches to feels like a safe space. I watch my son and believe (hope) that he feels securely attached to me because he is comfortable going away from me, but likes to know where I am, so he knows that he can come back too.
>
> People also write about being able to hold a caring picture of someone else in your mind as indicative of attachment. Or maybe it's just about feeling accepted or knowing that you feel less anxious (at least most of the time) in this person's presence. Can you tell I'm not sure myself about the answer to this!
OnceuponI have a young child too. I've done the same thing - read attachment theories and checked out her behavior to make sure it was all going ok. Yep, securely attached! I feel a bit of pride that she is thriving. With all of my issues that come up, she is my one exception. She's my little moon, bound by gravity and love.
I read somewhere that it makes sense that a person's issues can begin to surface when they have a child and I so understand that. In seeing where she feels secure and loved and beautifully strong willed, it highlights where my own life took a different path and areas that I need to heal. Do you ever feel that?
Before my daughter, I was mostly numb and just accepted things as they were. Somehow, in letting her in, it feels a little like I'm waking up. Now, I look at my daughter and all of the "good stuff" that just naturally flows through her, and then look at the lack and damage in my own life and know I have a lot of work to do.
I love how my daughter just comes up to me and says "I need you!" Or when I tell her she is being cute she says "yes, I am!" She knows these things in her soul. Giving these things to her is the easy part. Acknowledging that I have the same needs and in turn allowing another adult to reach into these needs and be there for *me* feels like a completely different ball game. I like how you framed it - the therapist is just using the best tool available, herself. Maybe I can begin to allow it if I try to think of it as a relationship "coach" showing me by example.
Thanks,
Turtle
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.