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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
After so much time in therapy you'd think I wouldn't lose control anymore. Monday and again today, I had complete melt downs.
Monday we were talking about telling someone new about being abused and how that might effect me sexually. He said, "what is the worse thing you can imagine happening?" I shook my head and said I didn't know. He pushed - "they'd reject you maybe?" I couldn't answer. He asked another question but I was rapidly falling apart. I burst into tears and blurted, "the worst thing would be that they would ask you why you didn't make it stop? Why didn't I tell someone?" Then I hid behind all the pillows and sobbed. He was quiet - shocked I think and then he made all sorts of comforting noises and "Ah, yes, I can see how scary that would be" statements. He tried to give me his speech about it not being my fault but the tears had turned to anger and I wanted to just scream at him "shut up - F-U - stop it." All I could get out was, "please don't go there" and he stopped talking. I left upset.
I apologized for falling apart so swiftly and completely - he noted that he'd struck a nerve (you think?) but he thought it was great that it all came up. He said I've been holding back and I needed to trust that he could still hear all the stories and take care of himself around it. But he did want to talk about the self-hatred and blame and self-destructive things I've been doing. Ug - that was hard.
Today links around pleasure and pain came up. I know how to handle pain but I don't do very well with pleasure. I can't handle too much fun. If things are calm and going well, I get nervous. We even talked about this around sex - is it OK for me to feel pleasure? Intellectually I know it is and I desperately want to be normal - but something inside of me just exploded out and I was trembling and crying and telling him that "no, it is not OK to like it. If you respond, you want more. And more means pain, and it hurts, hurts, hurts..." and I was just lost to it. A sobbing mess that could only say, "hurts, hurts, hurts" and then "I feel sick, really sick." I could hear his voice, telling me it was OK and to just breathe, that no one was going to hurt me and he knew I felt sick and on and on...just talking. When I finally calmed down, he looked so worried. And so sad. And then guess what I did?
I apologized again. *sigh* He shook his head and said, "I know it is hard but it needs to come out. It is OK to feel it, and tell me and be angry and not hold back. I just hate how hard it is on you." Yeah, me too. He kept me for a few minutes longer, and asked me if I could go home and not back to work. Clearly I upset him. I tried to reassure him that I'd be fine - but he raised his eyebrows...which means "don't give me that fine sh*t."
I'm struggling tonight with the abreactions - why am I so out of control and so emotional? It is very much like the younger parts of me, which have been very quiet and stable, are pushing forth without my control. I just really started going to therapy again steadily, I don't want to be too much right away.
Any thoughts?
Posted by Dinah on August 14, 2008, at 0:45:12
In reply to Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
> I just really started going to therapy again steadily, I don't want to be too much right away.
>
> Any thoughts?My only thought is more or less the same thing you told me about myself. You've been without him, at least in person, for a long while. Just being around him again would be like a kid when mom picks him up after day care. All the stresses of the long day mount up and explode.
It's been a long stressful day, without his physical presence. It's natural to melt down now that you're in a safe place again.
Posted by Fallsfall on August 14, 2008, at 7:29:08
In reply to Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
>>I'm struggling tonight with the abreactions - why am I so out of control and so emotional?
Or maybe the question is "Why am I usually so IN control?" Maybe your current reactions are more normal - I know that is a scary thought. But if you allow these feelings and thoughts to come into consciousness then you can actually deal with them. I know it is painful, and I wish there was an easier way, but I'm afraid there isn't. Try not to fight what is happening, I think it is helpful. But also take care of yourself during this rough period.
I'm here.
Love,
Falls
Posted by Annierose on August 14, 2008, at 7:33:53
In reply to Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
I think you are right. The younger parts want to be heard and comforted. And your t is telling them, "It is safe here, it will be okay, I won't hurt you." But there is so much shame in those memories ... even though the shame should be dumped squarely on the abuser, not you. Children always blame themselves.
When I feel overwhelmed in therapy (too much is coming to the surface) my t explains that the subconscious knows why I'm there, it knows that this stuff needs to be sorted and explored and ultimately comforted. Although you want to reign the memories back, your therapist wants to hold your hand (metaphorically) and help you move forward so you can enjoy good stuff.
Therapeutically we are both so lucky in that when we are riddled with angst, our next appointment is a day or two away. Tomorrow comes and you can continue working through these memories. You won't scare your t away. He is strong. He can hold onto all your memories. It is okay to lose control.
Can you talk to your younger self and tell her what you wished your mother would have said? and done?
Posted by raisinb on August 14, 2008, at 9:18:03
In reply to Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
Daisy,
This sounds so scary and painful. As strange (or crappy) as it might sound, my first thought is that my therapist would say that this is *big* progress--that you should be proud of yourself for being able to be so vulnerable. That's one of her main goals for us, one we haven't reached yet. It might be that it's a testament to your inner strength, your progress, and your very strong relationship with your therapist that you're able to do such intense work. I'd bet that not too many of us (definitely not me!) can lose control in therapy in the way that you did. But I think it's so important to do so.
Posted by rskontos on August 14, 2008, at 12:14:55
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by raisinb on August 14, 2008, at 9:18:03
Daisym,
I agree with everyone. Like Annierose and raisinb, my first thoughts was that the hurt, very hurt, little girl was finally having her say. And that is huge and very important. When I earlier tried that, all mine could do was cry. I thought it was because she was preverbal but now i think I flooded myself. I let too much out before I trusted my t completely.
In any case, I think you are taking a huge step and your protective side wants to protect you as it has always tried to do, in whatever way it could. Anger, hurt, silence, whatever means were available at that time. As hard as it is, trust your T to help you through this time to heal even more. You are truly an inspiration to me.
(((((Daisym)))))))))))))
rsk
Posted by sunnydays on August 14, 2008, at 12:45:56
In reply to Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
You won't be too much. Your T really cares about you, and I bet he's been missing seeing you often and missing the intensity you bring to your work. I have found that my T, at least, seems to like the intense sessions because they give him a challenge professionally. Challenge is a good thing.
Also, I had a recent experience vaguely similar (although much milder, it sounds like). I was very relaxed and calm all day, and then I went to T (big mistake, right?). I mentioned that I was relaxed and then I was silent for a while. T asked if I was mad about something (there was a reason for him to ask it, but I wasn't), and I said, "No, part of me is scared. I get scared to be happy." And then burst into tears, which shocked me since I had been doing so 'well'. Those parts in you were waiting to get to the safety of your T's office to come out and show you and him what they have been experiencing. That's really good, because it shows you feel safe in his presence and like he can keep you safe.
It'll be ok. Try to take it easy (I know that can be really hard).
sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on August 14, 2008, at 12:57:12
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on August 14, 2008, at 12:45:56
Being happy always triggers oh oh what bad will happen now? Phillipa
Posted by Lemonaide on August 14, 2008, at 16:24:42
In reply to Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 0:09:37
Daisy,
It breaks my heart that you are going through this. I hate that others can take something that should be so beautiful, and make it feel unsafe to us, all because of their sick abusive needs.
I am glad you have the T that you have, he knows how to help you. I think in a way you are more in control than you realize, you are able to talk about this, something so difficult because you feel safer now with your T. You are making wonderful progress, but it is so hard to do. But you are a strong warrior and will conquer this and be on the other side of this even stronger than you are now. I believe in you. Take care of yourself.((((Daisy))))
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:26:09
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger, posted by Fallsfall on August 14, 2008, at 7:29:08
Actually, unfortunately, you are there. :(
We talked about being a control freak today - how I work so hard to make everything work for everyone else but then passively let things go for myself - I almost never say no or cancel on a friend and yet when my friends do that to me, it is fine - I totally understand and am fine with it. Weird combination to have.
I'm trying hard to believe that being "real" won't backfire.
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:33:38
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by Annierose on August 14, 2008, at 7:33:53
I had a dream last night that I went into therapy with a magic rope. I told my therapist that he had to hold one end and I'd hold the other. That way he could pull me back when I was in too deep. But then his wife came in and was really angry at me. She wouldn't let him hold the rope, she said it was dangerous and he would get pulled in, not pull me out. He decided to tie the rope to something solid in his office (I don't know what). But when he did that, I went to a place of nothing - I was lost and walking and had no idea where I was or how to get back. There was only grey nothingness.
I told him the dream today. He said, "beyond the obvious interpretation, can you relate all the characters in the dream back to yourself?" So I tried to figure out which part of me he was, and which part his wife was and which part was the me lost. Turns out that much of the dream was about being alone and the acute loneliness that comes with telling.
I hate having a subconscious - don't you?
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:37:32
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by raisinb on August 14, 2008, at 9:18:03
You sound like my friend, who is a retired therapist. She added, "now, if you could only stop watching the clock!"
I don't know about inner strength. I feel like a puddle so much of the time. But I try to remember that no matter what I say, my therapist isn't allowed to tell anyone else - so it is safe to tell him stuff. That doesn't stop me from saying, "please don't tell anyone what I did."
I'm sure you will get here, not that I'd wish this for anyone else. But we all move at our own pace. Babble helps me a lot with "pushes" when I need them.
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:44:40
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger (((((Daisym)))))), posted by rskontos on August 14, 2008, at 12:14:55
Thanks for the hug, RSK.
Today my therapist asked me if I was allowing little daisy to sleep with her stuffed animal. (I've had it since I was 7 and it has gone to therapy with me a few times.) I shook my head and said no, it was on my dresser, put there since my surgery. He said little daisy needs "comforts" since telling can be traumatic in some ways. I thought it was funny that he remembered that.
I'm honoring my protective side too. I feel sort of split right now but I do know that both sides serve a purpose. I had to work very hard at not flooding and it still sometimes happens. And sometimes the tears have to come before the words - so crying is a way of telling. I hope you allow those tears - you earned the right to each and everyone of them.
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:52:17
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on August 14, 2008, at 12:45:56
I call it my Pavlovian response - come in, sit down, pull a pillow in my lap and feel all the feelings I've been avoiding. Sometimes it is truly overwhelming and surprising. I think that we wait to feel difficult things until we have someone to help us hold all of it.
I wish it wasn't so scary for you to be happy. I totally get it though - I'm terrified to admit to needing or liking something, it will get ruined somehow. But the direct link between pleasure, fear and pain is hard to take - I feel so much rage when thinking about it. It is like being punished in yet another way. Ug.
As far as it being good that I challenge him - I'm not always so sure. We talked a week or so ago about the thread above about CBT therapies and ways of approaching trauma. He asked me if I was wishing he worked in a different way. I sensed that he was really wondering if I was criticizing our work together by talking about the thread. I wasn't - but of course there are always things we wished they were open to. (Like camp outs under his desk.)
Posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:59:42
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by Lemonaide on August 14, 2008, at 16:24:42
I'm not often called a warrior. Thanks for that. :)
My therapist says that control is relative and relinquishing it is a way of reclaiming it too. He wants me to separate out my feelings of being "emotional" from being in control. Those are hard to distinguish between.
The other thing that happens is that when I'm really upset like that, I feel so loud! But my therapist insists that I talk very softly - and get softer when I get upset (most of the time.) I think that is because noise was forbidden - and everything sounded really loud in the middle of the night. I feel like I'm screaming at him and that everyone can hear me. He says telling at all is going to feel loud because the words aren't suppose to ever be uttered. I guess I'll have to work on this - speak up and slow down. Story of my life...
Posted by Daisym on August 15, 2008, at 0:08:22
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger, posted by Dinah on August 14, 2008, at 0:45:12
Missed you and still forgetting that darn button half the time.
I think you are absolutely right. I confessed to toddler behavior today - melting down with the person who is safest to do so. And he noted that I *am* mad at him - at least in some ways - for the separation. Part of me understands and part of me doesn't care to understand. (stomp, stomp) He said he was fine with toddler behavior as long as I didn't break things. :)
We did have a very intense conversation about self-sufficiency and loneliness. Realizing how alone I was then, and how awful it was, makes me feel really alone now. And that is a very painful place to be. He talked about abandonment depression and also about fundamental psychic shifts - facing the lonely feelings and figuring out how to reenter the community in a more real and vulnerable way. I can't just leave the stories in his office anymore - I have to own them and yet go be in the world - as a person with all this crap in her history, not as a person who keeps the secret. It sounds way too hard.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on August 15, 2008, at 13:28:22
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger, posted by Daisym on August 14, 2008, at 23:26:09
> Actually, unfortunately, you are there. :(
>
> We talked about being a control freak today - how I work so hard to make everything work for everyone else but then passively let things go for myself - I almost never say no or cancel on a friend and yet when my friends do that to me, it is fine - I totally understand and am fine with it. Weird combination to have.
>
> I'm trying hard to believe that being "real" won't backfire.My T often reminds me that I *am* real. Even if I feel like I'm acting- that's a very real part of me. I can't act like an olympic swimmer, because I'm not. But, I can act like a competent person, because (at least a part of me?) is. Or so he says.
Maybe being "real" is this illusion that our thoughts, emotions and expressions will all be in sync, and in tune with our perceptions of the world. To attain this sense of "flow" and well-being. To me, however, being "real" makes my self-esteem dangerously vulnerable. Maybe it's just a state of mind. Being vulnerable vs. allowing insults no influence. Vulnerable Daisym as no more "real" than the unflappable Daisym?
Ah... and how to integrate.
I'm gonna go make some carrot juice now. Want some?
-Ll
Posted by DAisym on August 15, 2008, at 20:41:24
In reply to Re: Losing control - trigger » Daisym, posted by llurpsienoodle on August 15, 2008, at 13:28:22
Thanks but I'm having chocolate cupcakes for dinner.
Perhaps what I'm struggling with is scale and titration. I keep thinking of it as all or nothing. I'm either completely surface with people - all about them, not me - or I'm dumping all this horrible stuff on them. How much do you tell to achieve intimacy without freaking someone out? And how do you interject that into a conversation? "Oh yes, I remember last year when I was suicidal..." Seems to me that would be a bit of a wet blanket on things.
But I like what you said about it all being real in some form or another. Self-psychology postulates that we acquire false-selves to protect our core self - and these selves are adaptive and necessary for functioning. It is the empty space between the false self and the core self that holds the darkness - so if we could merge the two, there would be very little room for the darkness. I think just dropping a flash light in would be so much easier.
This is the end of the thread.
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