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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:12:41
Hi All,
I was in therapy for five years. I accomplished a lot and stopped--not completely done but I felt I needed to just stop and see that I could survive on my own without a therapist. I was fine.
A year and a half later I've gone back for a few sessions for a specific issue.
At our last meeting on this issue which seems to be coming to a resolution I noted that her wedding rings were off. It caught me by surprise--never have I seen her w/out.
I asked if she was getting a divorce. She turned incredibly red faced and became uncomfortable. She asked if I noticed her rings before. I said all the time. Every time.
She then said, still very uncomfortable, that the rings were being re-sized.
She then said her first thought is that I would have thought I'd caused her divorce.
Huh? I said "By putting thoughts into your head?" (I broke off a thirteen year relationship while in therapy w/ her.) She said, "Well, not that literally."
Anyway, I felt very strange around that comment.
More happened but at the end we were both clueless about moving forward or not. I said I'd need to think about stuff. She said the effect we have both had on each other has always been electrifying or some word like this.
She seemed really messed up, uncomfortable, red faced, etc. All because I asked her about her wedding rings. I mean I am pretty careful not to mess with boundaries with her and I figured she could handle it but maybe I was wrong.
Comments???
Posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2008, at 13:31:07
In reply to Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:12:41
My first thought was also Huh? Assuming you're male and you haven't seen her in over two years whatever happened was not your fault. And could be they are being resized. I always look for wedding rings too. Some wear them and some don't same with pdocs. Some wear them so you will assume they are married. I have no idea how you can find out???? Phillipa
Posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:48:13
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco » Rigby, posted by Phillipa on August 11, 2008, at 13:31:07
I'm female and so is my therapist. I was gay when I entered therapy but during therapy I ended up falling in love with a guy and left my relationship.
My therapist, a long, long time ago, did something similar. Odd circumstances as to how I know this but basically she was recommended to me by a friend who knew her from long ago and this friend gave me the details--that basically she was gay and then just decided she wasn't anymore and ended up getting married and had a kid.
We both knew going into this that I knew this about her. It did not seem to be a big issue until I fell in love with a guy and then it was kind of strange but I never thought it was due to her influence--at all.
Who knows what she thinks though. I always thought that the influence we were concerned about was hers on me. Now I'm wondering if I've impacted her. When she said that, that there was this mutuality of impact, it really flipped me out.
Posted by myrtledog on August 11, 2008, at 14:11:46
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:48:13
I think what she said speaks volumes. What I'm thinking is that (not your fault) the impact you two had on each other played some part in her divorce. It's just too random a thing to come into her mind/speak if not. And why would she be red faced and uncomfortable about just getting them resized?
Posted by Nadezda on August 11, 2008, at 17:14:57
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by myrtledog on August 11, 2008, at 14:11:46
I'm confused. Was she getting them resized, or was she getting a divorce?
If she was getting them resized, maybe she felt uncomfortable about the reason they needed to be resized. Maybe her discomfort had nothing to do with the idea of divorce.
I mean, if she's getting divorced, then it seems to-- but if she's getting them resized, her being embarrassed might be about something entirely different.
Nadezda
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2008, at 18:13:42
In reply to Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:12:41
This probably goes against all psychoanalytic theory, but I rather wish therapists would just give brief factual answers to something that is readily apparent and brings questions. The presence or absence of a ring is as public as information on google. It's like wearing a cast and being cagey about what happened to your leg.
I may have asked the question in a more open ended way so that he could dodge it if he really didn't want to say anything, but my therapist would have likely answered it with a brief factual answer and no big fuss (unless he was temporarily insane, like recently).
If a therapist really wants no mention of marital status, he or she shouldn't wear their wedding rings in session.
I know the more analytically trained therapists would be more likely to ask why you asked. But your therapist doesn't sound that analytic, given what you already know about her situation.
It's things like that that increase a client's obsession with a therapist. Make them into mythical mystical creatures.
I can see where she might not want to go into her husband's affair or the horrendous fights that led to her taking off her rings. But a simple "I'm no longer married", in a tone to discourage further inquiry, is surely no more than the removal of her ring already said? Or, if it's true "I'm having them resized."
Sigh. My therapist once lied to me about a congratulatory card sitting on his desk, signed by his coworkers, upon his engagement. I felt he had every right to keep his engagement private. But if that was his intent, he shouldn't have had the blasted card on his desk.
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2008, at 18:14:07
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2008, at 18:13:42
not just sitting either. Displayed.
Posted by Dinah on August 11, 2008, at 18:20:42
In reply to Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:12:41
Her final statement does make it sound as if she still thought you were enmeshed in the relationship with her. If you have moved on, and are no longer concerned beyond the ordinary with a long time intimate acquaintance, then she hasn't quite caught up to your change of view.
Or maybe the truth runs somewhere between enmeshed and moved on?
Of course, it's hard to interpret words without the other nonverbal information. I've often said word for word what my therapist has said, and yet had it interpreted in a way that it would not have been by someone in the room.
Posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 19:04:53
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Nadezda on August 11, 2008, at 17:14:57
I'm not sure what the truth is--her reaction was so odd that I'm not sure what to believe. She could have been uncomfortable because she was splitting with her husband. Or because she was getting them re-sized (she hasn't gotten heavy) or maybe some other reason. I would think, as Dinah said, just a matter of fact statement would have worked. Oh well.
> I'm confused. Was she getting them resized, or was she getting a divorce?
>
> If she was getting them resized, maybe she felt uncomfortable about the reason they needed to be resized. Maybe her discomfort had nothing to do with the idea of divorce.
>
> I mean, if she's getting divorced, then it seems to-- but if she's getting them resized, her being embarrassed might be about something entirely different.
>
> Nadezda
Posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 19:09:51
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Dinah on August 11, 2008, at 18:13:42
I completely agree. Did she think I didn't notice for five years? She seemed just absolutely floored. I don't get it.
> This probably goes against all psychoanalytic theory, but I rather wish therapists would just give brief factual answers to something that is readily apparent and brings questions. The presence or absence of a ring is as public as information on google. It's like wearing a cast and being cagey about what happened to your leg.
I was so shocked she wasn't wearing her rings I didn't think--I just blurted it out. It was the first thing that came to mind, interestingly.
> I may have asked the question in a more open ended way so that he could dodge it if he really didn't want to say anything, but my therapist would have likely answered it with a brief factual answer and no big fuss (unless he was temporarily insane, like recently).
Yeah, I wonder about this. I actually asked this out loud in my session (with no response.)
> If a therapist really wants no mention of marital status, he or she shouldn't wear their wedding rings in session.I wondered if her "did you think you caused it" thought was a psychoanalytical grab--like trying to get me to think about the dynamic between my parents and myself--but I think that's being charitable and I think she picked a really "off" time to try that if so.
> I know the more analytically trained therapists would be more likely to ask why you asked. But your therapist doesn't sound that analytic, given what you already know about her situation.I wonder.
> It's things like that that increase a client's obsession with a therapist. Make them into mythical mystical creatures.I totally agree.
> I can see where she might not want to go into her husband's affair or the horrendous fights that led to her taking off her rings. But a simple "I'm no longer married", in a tone to discourage further inquiry, is surely no more than the removal of her ring already said? Or, if it's true "I'm having them resized."Mine did something similar to me and it *infuriated* me. What I hate is having to pay to unravel this stuff when you truly believe half of the problem--at least--is theirs!
> Sigh. My therapist once lied to me about a congratulatory card sitting on his desk, signed by his coworkers, upon his engagement. I felt he had every right to keep his engagement private. But if that was his intent, he shouldn't have had the blasted card on his desk.
Posted by Sigismund on August 13, 2008, at 20:52:05
In reply to Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Rigby on August 11, 2008, at 13:12:41
Maybe she was getting the rings resized AND her marriage was on the rocks. Not a lie, but like you guessed it. So she says 'Maybe you feel like you caused it'?
Posted by Rigby on August 14, 2008, at 11:54:34
In reply to Re: Wedding Ring Fiasco, posted by Sigismund on August 13, 2008, at 20:52:05
I actually think your theory makes most sense--both are true--otherwise I don't think she would have melted when I asked the question. And yes, she said she thought her first thought about me is that I must feel like I caused it. Bizarro.
Someone once told me that therapists tend to be pretty messed up themselves--that's part of the reason they become therapists. I wonder if that's the situation with her sometimes.
> Maybe she was getting the rings resized AND her marriage was on the rocks. Not a lie, but like you guessed it. So she says 'Maybe you feel like you caused it'?
This is the end of the thread.
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