![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kath on March 30, 2008, at 16:46:48
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
Hi Daisy - I think you are very brave & I respect the work you're doing. I don't read much here on this board, but the little bit I've 'skimmed', i see that you are seriously doing hard work to heal.
I'm sorry that I don't have anything to help, as I was led to believe (don't know if I was told or just inferred it) around 5 (a one-time event; 3 people; family 'friends') - that if I told, my Dad would get mad & beat them up & go to jail. So I didn't tell. And I also shoved it away, away, away. It's come back in bits over the past 12 years & my parents have been dead for decades. So I'm very sorry I can't give you the kind of support I wish I could.
I applaud you for bringing it up here!
May your healing continue. Your T sounds great.
love, Kath
Posted by Kath on March 30, 2008, at 18:28:15
In reply to Re: Homework, posted by frida on March 30, 2008, at 14:29:10
Hi frida, I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO upset that you have been, what seems to me, re-victimized by your mother's reactions.
>...and that knowing this has destroyed her life.
******I am so sorry she's tried to make this all about HER as a victim.
>She has blamed me for not telling her, and has said that "what you and your dad did to me" has destroyed me.
*****I hope you know that "you & your dad" didn't do ANYthing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE did stuff & it's a wonder he didn't destroy YOU (((((((((you)))))))
> She says some things are better unsaid , and refuses to admit anything directly or care about how i feel about this. Her concern now is that i don't speak in T about all this, that should be just left alone.
*******Once again, I am very sorry that she is not there for YOU, caring about you & is making it all about her...or trying to. I'm glad your T is there for you & I would think it must have felt really good to your inner child that your T believed YOU 150% - make that 200%> As a result, it's been really hard for me to talk in T..She just reinforces the belief that i shouldn't talk. Recently, she has said that what i did, with my father, has been the worst thing that has ever happened in her life.
*******I have no idea how old you are, or if you live with your mother (I hope not) or if not, how often you must (or want to) interact with her. I hope these are things that you can and DO discuss with your T. It seems to me that interacting with your mother is introducing poison into your life. It seems to me that she's already said enough to give you LOTS of raw material for you & your T to work with - to say nothing of what actually happened to you. It seems a shame for your mother to be allowed to say yet MORE things that can hurt; harm; shame you etc.
>Again, she turns this to be about her, and blames me for it, as if it had been something i did, with him, not something he did to me.
****I'm glad that you know this truth, & can see it clearly. That you didn't do ANYthing wrong.> At times that's her reaction, and some other times she simply denies it all. If we get together, she talks about my father and tells anecdotes, and talks about the happy family we were...in front of others, she brings this up and talks about him (it is really painful for me) and has photographs of him with me in the house.
*********Once again, I'm concerned about you. I'm hoping that you are old enough to NOT have to live with her. I hope you can discuss with your T the possibility of attempting to set some healthy-for-you boundaries with your mother & that your T can help you attempt to change the pattern with her & enforce the boundaries & if that does NOT work & she won't respect you, that your T can help you work out what kind of relationship (which might include NONE) you are prepared to have with your mother.
> My T has said that she just isn't willing to face her role in this...
******It sounds like that is true. I do not think it is your job to do anything about that! I think that, sad as it is, you aren't going to get the love, caring, believing & support that anyone in your situation would want from their mother. I am really concerned that you are being bombarded with very damaging comments & actions from your mother ONGOING.
> we've talked about this, and she has said that a mom , living in the same house, can't just not know..
*******actually, she is wrong. More about that in a minute.
However, in your case of course she should have known. For whatEVER reason, she did not WANT to know. You certainly did what you could to speak up - numerous times, from the sound of it. You told her; just not in certain words.I do need to comment, though about moms not knowing. Believe me, there ARE cases where the mom does not know. I speak from personal experience. And when they do learn, years later it is devastating to them; not to have been able to protect their child. There are cases where the mom had stuff happen as a kid, even though she didn't remember (had set it aside)....where the mom always had a fear that something would happen to her daughter & would even check-in with her daughter to try to ensure her safety with friends' families etc. There are cases where the mom was looking out into the forest for danger instead of right at the trees that were really close. There are moms who are TOTALLY different from yours & when they did find out years later, were devastated & plagued themselves with 'how could I not know??? DID I know??? why didn't she tell me? didn't she think I'd believe her? what was she told to make her not tell me?? then - what can I do NOW to support you? what do you need from me? how can I help?' And there are cases where there were VERY few clues, even in hindsight.
In your case that is not true. You certainly 'told' in your own way & I am so very sorry you were ignored & that the situation was ignored.
I wish like anything that you could receive all the things you needed from your mother. I can only imagine how much you yearn for things from her. I get the impression that you & she 'discuss' this & that maybe you hope that you can change her way of thinking. Very sadly, I don't think that's going to happen. ((((you))))
You weren't protected from him in the past....
But from what I see - the very very important thing NOW is that you are potected from the ongoing abuse that your mother continues to inflict upon you.I would think it's like a wound trying to heal & every time she says yet one more thing that is hurtful, the scab gets scraped off. I don't see how you can heal if this continues.
Please, please talk with your T about this. Please.
I wish you healing & peace.
luv, Kath
PS - please forgive me if I have been insensitive or have said anything that might hurt you. We never know how something might affect someone else. I've tried to be careful & I mean only the very, very best for you. xoxoxo Kath
Posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 18:33:44
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
This isn't in answer to your question.
But since I usually have the same problem with feeling trapped and impotent, I hope you're able to work out some escape plans too. Even if you're on vacation together, it isn't impossible to plan ways to get away from her for short or long periods if you really need to. Or draw boundaries. Or in some way find ways to feel like you do have some choices.
Posted by frida on March 30, 2008, at 19:35:15
In reply to Re: Homework » frida, posted by Kath on March 30, 2008, at 18:28:15
Hi Kath,
thank you so so much for your post. It meant a lot to me, it even brought tears to my eyes.
Don't mean to hijack Daisy's post..hope it is ok to answer here.Thank you for taking the time to write this to me.
Thank you for validating my feelings. Fortunately I've managed to put distance and I don't live with her. We do meet, my grandmother lives with her so I see her, and the relationship we have is very difficult. Sometimes it hurts a lot, and then it seems part of me still seeks some contact and I try to keep things superficial...i find myself falling into that "denial game" and it makes my work in T very hard. My T struggles a lot to help me talk...it's hard for me to feel it is ok to talk.
My grandmother is sick so I see my mother frequently, and she makes these comments or says something about therapy...as if i shouldn't be talking.
It's incredible how much power she still has over me.hearing her say 'what you and your dad did' was really hard for me.
i still can't talk openly about all these things with my T, they bring me shame, i do feel the need, i just find it incredibly hard to start talking...though i feel totally supported and cared for by my T.
i really find it hard to respond when my mother does these things. when I go there and see pictures of me and my dad i feel sick, and when she starts talking about him and telling anecdotes i feel that's such a hurtful thing to do..
i guess the little girl in me still years for a mother to come and hold her and say she's sorry and let her cry...but it won't happen...
i tried to explain to my mother in an email, that i need to be in T, that the stuff that happened had consequences in me, that i can't have a healthy relationship with my partner,and so on, hoping she would support me now, but she still believes this is the worst thing that happened to her.what my T said, that it was not possible for a mother not to know, she said so in relation to my mother and our situation, not every mother. She said that given all the signals and the situations my mother did see, (my dad threatening me or hitting me in front of her, etc)and what i wrote and said when i was a teenager, it seemed my mother just didn't want to see what was going on.
What you described, about a mom not knowing, and her reaction afterwards...seems totally different. If my mother had held me and let me cry and said she was sorry and supported me in my decision to heal and my need to be in T, things would have been so different for me. If she said "what can i do to help you now?", it would be totally different from "it's better to leave some things in the past, and this was devastating for me so please stop talking, just leave it there".
thank you for validating my feelings and caring enough to write.
I've realized that I do need to talk with my T about all this. It affects me deeply and it also makes me stay silent and scared and feeling like a little girl who still feels dirty or bad.
Thank you for writing to me.
Love,
Frida
Posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2008, at 19:47:15
In reply to Re: Homework, posted by frida on March 30, 2008, at 19:35:15
Frida all I feel is you have endured so much without any understanding or empathy my heart goes out to you. Phillipa
Posted by fleeting flutterby on March 30, 2008, at 20:34:45
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
Dear Dinah,
I'm sorry you have struggled so. :o(
I wish for you - you see that it's not that you weren't worth portecting but that your mother didn't have it in her to do so. that its NOT you -- its' her.
After certain abuse(went through several different situations) I recall trying to talk to my mother and being "pushed away" -so to speak. Though, in my case, my mother also abused me and.... her daycare kids-- horrific physical abuse... so by the time I was about 7 years old, I knew she was NOT a safe place to run to. To this day she is NEVER in the wrong.... so I don't confront her about any past things anymore. (I know *I* will be the wrong one, time and time again-- she will tell me I'm wrong) I could never go on a vacation with my mother-- I commend you for that and hope all goes well with it.
I have been working on my own inner self. Trying to convince myself that I was, and am, worth being here-- no matter what my past is telling me.
I wish you the best in your homework and therapy.
fl.flutterby
Posted by fleeting flutterby on March 30, 2008, at 20:46:38
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
Daisym,
Ok-- this is my second try.....(lost the first try somewhere.....)
I'm so sorry I put "dinah" in my post to you-- I meant to write Daisym. I sure wish there was an "edit" button here....
new to this site and posting..... hope you'll understand and.... forgive me.fl.flutterby
Posted by Kath on March 30, 2008, at 20:55:28
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
Dear Daisym,
please let us know how you're doing okay?
I want to be lovingly supportive of you & I want you to know that you're in my thoughts.
I'm sorry you had & have so much pain.
(((((((((((((((((((you)))))))))))))))))))
love, Kath
Posted by raisinb on March 30, 2008, at 21:19:02
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
It's so sad to me how easily children can pick up what adults don't want to know or talk about. I even notice it in my students, who are adolescents.
I wish I had some insight for you. I don't struggle with CSA, but my father was emotionally abusive (he had severe mental health issues when I was growing up) and my mother, due to her dependence on him, did nothing to protect us.
These days, any time with my mother involves quietly tolerating her neediness and bizarre thinking and snapping at her when it gets too much. Not healthy. I can't imagine a long vacation with her. But I agree with Dinah--probably any time you can get to yourself will be helpful.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 0:57:52
In reply to Re: Homework, posted by frida on March 30, 2008, at 14:29:10
Frida,
Your post was very moving. Thank you for sharing so much. What happened with your mom is one of my fears - that she will see it as something "you and your father did together" instead of something awful that was forced. We've worked really hard on this in therapy - all these feelings of shame and responsibility. I think I'm starting to feel less at fault and more in need of that comfort that you wrote about. I suspect that is why a lot of this is up right now.I wish I knew the magic words to write so that your mom could see how devastating this was and is for you. But she obviously has her own set of problems. I'm glad to hear you are talking more in therapy these days. Your therapist has been very steady in her support of you. Healing takes a long time and there seems to be so many layers. I bet the younger parts of you that tried to tell are incredibly sad. But you did the right thing and talking about it now is also the right thing.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 0:59:45
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by Phillipa on March 30, 2008, at 12:15:23
I imagine that having unanswered questions is very difficult. It leaves a lot to be imagined and worked through on your own. But at least you know that you won't bring pain to an "innocent" bystander, right?
The whole thing is just so complicated. Thanks for the support.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 1:18:21
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by Kath on March 30, 2008, at 16:46:48
You helped by sharing - thank you for doing that. I'm sure that at 5 you could understand danger and the unpredictibility of your household sounds very scary and dangerous. I'm sorry that happened to you. So much hurt in our world, isn't there?
I don't know if this would be easier if my parents were dead. I don't want to hurt my mom - she might not have known what was happening but she is overall a nice person and I don't want to make this her fault. I keep asking myself what telling her now would accomplish - is this about punishing her? We have a great friendship and I love her. She just isn't an emotionally warm and fuzzy person.
There is a great sadness in all of this and I'm not sure where it is going. There is a lot to sort through.
Thanks for your caring and support.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 1:21:02
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by Dinah on March 30, 2008, at 18:33:44
I think you are right, Dinah, I need to have a way to take breaks. I am leaving the country but should have access to email. My therapist and I have talked about keeping in contact that way. So I won't be totally alone with all of this. I just wish it hadn't come up right now.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 1:28:13
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by fleeting flutterby on March 30, 2008, at 20:34:45
I'm very sad that you suffered so much and even at the hands of your mom. Where is a little girl to turn then? I can understand why you don't have a relationship with her.
It is all very complicated and painful - and I don't want to lose what I have now with her. I do want to matter, I want this very much.
And no worries about the name - you'll get the hang of this. I'm glad you are here.
Posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 1:33:02
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by raisinb on March 30, 2008, at 21:19:02
Emotional abuse can be just as destructive. No child should live in fear. I'm sorry your mom couldn't be there for you.
It seems that none of us told or told very effectively. And we all have very different relationships with our moms.
I'm trying to figure all this out. Thanks for your support.
Posted by vwoolf on March 31, 2008, at 6:08:28
In reply to Re: Homework, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 1:33:02
Hi Daisy, sorry I'm late to this - I've only seen the thread now.
I never spoke to my Mom as a child. She always expected me to be strong, and so I was. Then about three years ago I wrote a short story about an episode of CSA with my father from when I was about five. The story was published under a pseudonym, but a lot of the details were recognizable for someone on the inside. I left the anthology lying around the house for a while, almost willing my mother to pick it up and read it, but not having the courage to show her.
Then one day, after I had had some very good news, I suddenly felt strong enough to show her. Without calling, I drove to her house. She was there, but was getting ready to go out to see some friends. She welcomed me in and we sat down. I pulled out the book, opened it and handed it to her. She looked at me and said "how exciting! You've published a story." I told her that she wouldn't like it but that she should read it. She began. After a few seconds she said "Oh God", then again and again. When she got to the end, she said "It isn't true, is it?" I nodded. Then she said: "I caught him at it when you were two years old!" I was stunned. Until then I hadn't been sure it was true, I had thought I must be exaggerating, that if it did happen it was much later. And here she was telling me it was actually worse!
She then asked me why I hadn't told her at the time. Which felt like a really dumb question to me. And then she said she had to go, that her friends were expecting her. But she looked shattered.
She showed me out. And then the world seemed to fall to pieces for me. I was convinced she would die, that she would have a stroke or a heart attack, that this would be too much for her. I phoned everyone I could think of, my t, my relatives, asking them to go and help her. I suppose it was the terror I had always had as a child, that it would kill my mother to know this. It felt unbearable that I could kill her.
I didn't see her for a week, then we met for lunch. She told me that she had been thinking about what I had said, and had come to the conclusion that I had invented everything.
I couldn't believe it. I told her that she had said that she had caught him in the act. I think she must have forgotten that she had said that. Again she looked stunned, but changed the subject.
For about two years we didn't talk about it again. We just didn't see much of each other although she would be very sweet and concerned when we did meet.
Then she was attacked in her home by an intruder and left for dead. She managed to crawl to the phone and call me. I stayed with her through all the ordeal of police and ambulance and hospital - for about three days I didn't go home. I think she thought she was dying, and she called me to her bedside and, in desperate tears said "You are always there for me, but I was never there for you." I understood that it was weighing heavily on her, and that it was her way of apologising.
Since then she has said other similar things, always obliquely, so that I know she is really sad and sorry. She is clearly doing a lot of soul searching, trying to understand what is lacking in herself. I left my marriage a few weeks ago, and she came to visit me in my new home. I told her my cousin had helped me move. She said she was glad, because she is not good at emotions. From my mother, that was a huge admission.
I decided to start training in a new discipline recently, a second chance at life, in a way, and my mother has offered to pay for it. I have accepted. It feels like reparation. It feels good, for both her and me.
Daisy it has been very hard, but I am glad I did it. It has freed me up in so many ways to be able to deal with my life and make healthier choices for the future.
It's a long story, and I have written a lot, but I am aware that I have also left out a lot. If you want to know any more, just ask.
Posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:35:50
In reply to Re: Homework » Dinah, posted by Daisym on March 31, 2008, at 1:21:02
Will you be sharing rooms at night?
If so, can you make clear that there will be times you'll be taking long walks or going to sit in common areas by yourself?
It's admittedly rather more difficult to choose to find another way home if you're out of the country.
My mother accompanied me on my trip to check out our potential new home. I was pretty worried about the drive up, and arranged for separate hotel rooms.
In the end, it was actually pleasant. We talked about old times the whole way up and back. She was very supportive of me in looking at other homes when the inspection on the first one didn't go very well. It was all very pleasant.
But I was still pretty happy about the separate rooms.
Posted by Annierose on March 31, 2008, at 15:14:15
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:35:50
From the few things you have shared about your mother, I don't think she'll do any pushing. She will let you lead and won't go sneaking around dark corners.
I think you generally enjoy your mother's company and will on this exciting vacation.
Posted by rskontos on March 31, 2008, at 15:26:33
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
Daisym,
My mother was abusive and emotional absent as was my father. I am dissociative due to it and have no memories of anything. My one sister that i have been estranged from, and I have recently spoken and she confirmed some SA that I only suspected from flashbacks. I know of physically abuse from my mother's lovers and I have flashbacks of SA from them as well but haven't addressed that completely. I believe she knew. Now my mother was SA as a child herself and I believe she did not think about it personally to me, that I should or should not be protected. I believe later as she got older she protected my youngest sister. My sister and I, the youngest one, not the estranged one, discussed how I got it worst than she that is why I have no memories and she does. I don't have all my memories I am still working on the flashbacks and the fragmented parts of me still stop me alot and interfere. Anyway,
my mother died when I was 27 and I am now 49. It was just recently that her hold on me was released. It is powerful the hold an abusive parent has, even in death my mother still had an unnatural hold over me. My mother did not think she was abusive to us. She was so hard to live with you never knew what she might do to you. Fling you across the room, yup that might happen. So you tipped toed around her always. My sisters and I rarely had friends over. My father says now that he felt sorry for us, but did he ever intervene heck no. We were on our own. They fought violently all the time. School was a haven for me.So I can't tell you how to deal with a mom now. I did not say anything to mine I usually left in my mind and another came out to deal with the hurt, pain and humiliation. My sister tried to say stuff to her and got her check cut open by my mother with a broken bottle. I was not there at the time. So I understand that even if I thought anything I would have never said anything to my mother, it was a matter of survival. But then in my case she was one of the abusers.
I am so sorry for your painful remembrances but it does sound like you have a wonderful T. I would be anxious about a trip though. So I am with him on that. Are you prepared.
Thanks so sharing this. I learn so much through your threads and post. You are doing so much wonderful work.
rsk
Posted by DAisym on March 31, 2008, at 19:45:00
In reply to Re: Homework - Long » Daisym, posted by vwoolf on March 31, 2008, at 6:08:28
I'm glad you wrote a lot - thank you for that. My therapist would ask, "how did it feel to see it all mapped out like that?" When a story becomes coherent, I think we find the trail to healing - however painful that trail still is to travel.
I've imagined a number of times leaving my poetry around for her to read. And yet when I have to go on a trip anywhere, I make sure it is all put away, hidden in my journal. My best friend has strict instructions that should I ever die suddenly, her first task is to go get my journal and my lap top and destroy them both. My therapist even has instructions to call her to remind her to do this. As much as I want to tell sometimes, I would never want to tell as my last act. I don't think...
I think after reading about many of the reactions to telling that perhaps it isn't any easier to absorb and believe for the nonabusing parent than it is for us. Like you said, we question our own memories, why wouldn't they? And beyond believing, I can barely stand to know what I know - so how could a mother stand it? I think denial is the first defensive reaction - or maybe it is the second one - the first one is shock and perhaps autopilot comfort.
I was hoping that I could stomp on these feelings until they were small enough to fit back in the box for awhile. My therapist reminded me that we started to talk about some of this three years ago but I developed chest pains around it and abandoned the topic. I think what you said about killing your mom hits home with me - it is a huge, very deep, anxiety that lives in a very young place. I can also believe that some part of you felt like dying too.
Here is a really personal question - how much did you tell? In the story, where there details? I'm kind of horrified to find myself dreaming of hurling words at my mother - hurting her with the stark images of a child being raped or worse. In the dream I was the therapist telling her about me the child. It was convoluted and scary.
Thanks again for sharing. I know this is a hard subject. Oh - I'm sorry about your marriage. I know how hard those first few weeks and months can be, no matter what the circumstances.
Posted by DAisym on March 31, 2008, at 19:52:40
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:35:50
We are sharing a room but that is fine. I've decided to take my own laptop, though she has offered to share hers. There will be lots of distractions and we both like to read.
And AnnieRose is right - she isn't nosey. She might push me to find a better job, or "go meet men" (her latest area of concern) but she has no real interest in my internal, emotional life, as long as I'm not crying.
And I really do like her. She is this amazing person who is funny and interesting and easy to make conversation with. I've said it a million times - she was the best mentor a person could ever want - she just wasn't all that maternal. So if I don't need her, we get along great.
I just have to remember to not mention therapy - this past weekend I did hear, "you've been separated almost two years, don't you think you've had enough therapy? I think you just need to put yourself out there again." Ug. She means well.
Posted by DAisym on March 31, 2008, at 20:06:50
In reply to Re: Homework » Daisym, posted by rskontos on March 31, 2008, at 15:26:33
So many of us have such sad stories. I'm touched that you were willing to share yours with me. It sounds like a horrible way to grow up.
I think you have lots of reasons to be angry at your mom and dad. They didn't just not protect you - they were part of the harm. I am struggling with the angry feelings, I don't think she deserves them - she never hurt me. My therapist said today that some of it really does belong to her and I'm over-the-top anxious about it because I'm convinced that anger hurts people. So it is hard for me to feel angry with her. It remains attached to a younger part so that the rational me can breathe.
I wish it felt safe to talk to my sister about some of this. She isn't capable of keeping a confidence and I think she would use it for her own drama. It must be hard to be estranged from your sister when in a perfect world you would be getting and giving support to one-another.
Do you talk to your dad about any of this now? I still can't imagine even the beginnings of talking with mine. The mom thing is hard enough.
Something interesting we talked about today - Some people get their memories, or fragments of memories and then want to talk to family members. Other people talk to family members about the general idea or feelings they have...and their memories come back. Sometimes telling unlocks the door. Sometimes those doors have to stay locked to protect against a complete break down. I think we need to respect that and go slow.
Thanks for sharing. I hope it wasn't too painful.
Posted by rskontos on March 31, 2008, at 20:25:31
In reply to Re: Homework » rskontos, posted by DAisym on March 31, 2008, at 20:06:50
DAisym,
You are welcome although to share I have to ignore admini's bs for now.
I can't talk to my father he is still part of the problem. I have no relationship with him I actually feel nothing for him. When he comes around he still says cruel and hurtful things and when I call him on it he acts like who me? I was kidding. So I try and stay the Heck away from him, nor do I call him. He calls me and sometimes I answer the phone. Interesting my one sister the one I have a relationship with, the other one is still shaky, feels the same way. She says if she did not have children she would cut all ties to my father. He just wasn't not there for us and he told me several times to my face he never wanted children, you see my father does not believe any of his three daughter's are his. So....accounts for his behavior I guess. But then again, why in the 50's do you marry if you don't want children, regular sex. I don't know I can't figure him out and I have stopped trying. He is my father I see him in my children but if he wants to think we are not that is his issue not mine. He hugs us know soft of. You know those hugs that are void of feelings. Yes those kinds. So I really don't think of him. He could not tell you one fact about me other than where I live, my phone number. My favorite color, or the dreams I had a kid, or what foods I like. Nope none of that. He just doesn't know his kids or grandkids but he has built this fantasy in his mind where he pretends too.
I think though your mom deserves some anger. As a mom I am reponsible for my children and protecting them from harm from my husband would be one of those responsibility. And while it would be hurtful for one of them to come to me and tell me of that I would always believe them and go down fighting for them. So I think she should have known something was happening to her daughter. Or at the very least make it a relationship where you felt like you could share anything.
My daughter recently had an incident of almost date rape. She managed to right off the attacker and get away. she told me. I think alot of girls might not tell their parents. I am glad we have this kind of relationship because I made sure she could tell me anything. I wanted her safe from anyone. No matter. So while I understand how you feel I think some of it would be justified if you felt it-anger I mean.
I do get more flashbacks when I speak to my sisters especially the one I just started to again. That relationship is very damaged by my parents. They pitted us against each other on purpose and my father still does. My sister still has issues she holds against me for not protecting her more from my mother. I am only 22 months older yet I was suppose to protect her. My p-doc says she tried to make me her mother. I am not to into talking to her. Our last conversation did not go so well and I haven't tried it again. I have only so much energy and I am using it myself for my own internal issues these days.
No it isn't too painful. Maybe somewhat helpful.
I hope it helps you in your journey.rsk
Posted by antigua3 on April 1, 2008, at 13:47:45
In reply to Homework, posted by Daisym on March 30, 2008, at 0:30:57
Oh Daisy,
I'm so sorry you are feeling so badly. You know I've been there, and am still there, so please know I'm sending good thoughts your way.Telling my mother was harder than the anticipation and not knowing how she would react. If you're thinking of telling her be sure to work through the whole range of reactions you might expect, and then fortify yourself tenfold to be sure that you can withstand whatever happens. I'm not saying she may take it badly, or not in the way you want her to (do they ever really?), but that you have to protect yourself as best you can.
It has been a year since I told my mother. It's not exactly a topic of conversation, but it kind of floats around the edges and imbues our everyday talk with a sort of "uh, oh, we keep ending up in this very dangerous area." it's like the harder you try not to talk about something, or see somebody, you see them at every corner. You can't escape once the cat is out of the bag, and you need to be prepared to live with it, however it goes.
My mother doesn't choose to talk about it and has never asked me any details. I'm fine with that. i don't feel the need to punish her so much anymore. I just didn't want to hold the secret from her anymore--the cost to me was way too high.
I went to see her earlier this year and I told her that I forgive her. She didn't ask for the forgiveness, but we were having a conversation that ended up on the topic and I just told her that she had given me many wonderful things in life--my life for that matter--and that I chose to not go there with her. But the funny thing is that now she tells me things that help fit the pieces together. She told me the other day that when I turned two, I became a worrier and had desperate fears about the world. She doesn't know how valuable that info was to me, because exactly at aged two--my birthday in fact--her father molested me when my brother and I were sent to live with our grandparents for two months while my mother waited for my younger brother to be born.
Bingo Mom. I was afraid, terribly afraid. And my grandmother caught my grandfather and never told my mother. My mother was busy with a new baby, and I was pushed from the nest, and she had five children now. I didn't have the capacity to tell at that age; all I really needed was the love and comfort from my mother, but she was otherwise occupied. I think that's why when my father started abusing me I just thought there was too much at risk to tell her. She seemed so fragile, but at the same time I felt shamed because I was taking my father away from her (twisted, I know).
I could write about this for hours; there are so many different aspects to it. Was my mother abused? I think so; she exhibits all the signs/feelings,adulation about her own father that I did about mine until memories started to come forth. I've never discussed it w/her, and I never will, unless she brings it up. If she was abused, she chose the course of closing her eyes to what was going on around her by being so self-absorbed.
I'm glad I told her. I feel closer to her now, and as I said, our conversations often yield bits of information that help with healing. I'm lucky in some ways that my parents divorced and my mother to this day will never, ever say a nice word about my father. She still hates him with a passion for all the terrible things he did to her and us.
All that said, my mother probably would take me on her lap if I asked (sounds kind of ridiculous, doesn't it?), but instead, I choose to consciously comfort my littlest girl myself when things get really tough and I feel angry, hurt, upset or shamed by what happened. I comfort her in the way I wanted to be comforted and it's the best I can do, and it helps.
My father is dead, and I do think that makes it easier somehow.
All my best,
Antigua
Posted by DAisym on April 2, 2008, at 12:52:21
In reply to Re: Homework)))Trigger*** » Daisym, posted by antigua3 on April 1, 2008, at 13:47:45
You sound so together about this and yet the pain of it comes through loud and clear. It just isn't an easy decision, is it? And it reminds me that no matter what we do now, we can't change the past. I suspect that part of what is driving this is wanting so badly to undo what was done.
We are just beginning to explore deeply why I'd want her to know now, and whether that would be cruel. I think I need to be really sure about the motivation, even if it is purely selfish. I won't act on something that is about hurting her.
I have been having a number of the conversations you described - more things about what it was like for her to be married so early and to have been moved so far from her family. And about her relationship to her own mother - things I never knew. Her view of me as a child match what I remember but her assumptions as to why I was like I was are way off. And clearly she had no idea what to do with me. I'm guessing that is why I molded myself to be someone she'd be proud of - overtly more like her and the things she valued.
In the end, I'm glad you feel good about telling her. I think that is how I feel right now - that there is something big between us that I'm always on guard against. And then when she still doesn't get the hints or clues, I'm devastated all over again. When do we stop wanting our mom's to read our minds?
And my dad still has the power to hurt my mom. She told me that no one has ever had such a strong emotional hold on her and she never allowed it again, even with her second husband whom she loved dearly. It helps that they live thousands of miles apart. But I don't want to "help" him hurt her - does that make sense?
As far as comforting myself - I'm getting better at it. I still find myself wanting my therapist to do it. Sometimes I want to cling to him and other times I want him to wrap himself around me and keep the world away. But more and more, I can feel him nudging me (he loves that word) to protect myself or find something to be happy about. It is a da*n slow process!
Thanks for sharing.
This is the end of the thread.
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