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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 10:19:25
I can finally understand the notion of "emotional abuse".
Four years of my thesis supervisor taking little digs at me, criticising everything I do, dismissing my ideas, canceling our meetings at the last moment, not even showing up for meetings...
And when I try to discuss it with him, he says I shouldn't waste time bringing up petty issues.
He has hurt me, deeply, and dented my self-esteem.
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2008, at 11:36:16
In reply to Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 10:19:25
I guess so it's such a big step and so much work I never went that far in education too overwhelming for me settled for two years. Love Phillipa hope you feel better soon.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 11:42:20
In reply to Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 10:19:25
In 1977, the biggest accident in aviation history took place in the Spanish island of Tenerife, when a KLM Boeing 747 collided with a Pan Am Boeing 747 and 583 people were killed.
This accident occured because the KLM airliner was not cleared for take-off. The KLM crew had received ambiguously phrased instructions from the air traffic control which they erroneously interpreted as clearance for take-off.
At some stage during the take-off procedure however, the second officer Willem Schreuder realised they did not have take-off clearance, and informed the captain (Jacob Louis Veldhuyzen van Zanten) and first officer (Klass Meurs) of his concern. The captain and first officer impatiently dismissed his objection, later resulting in the largest accident in aviation history.
Sometimes I feel like Jacob Louis Veldhuyzen van Zanten is my thesis supervisor and I am second officer Willem Schreuder. My ideas and concerns are simply dismissed by supposedly more competent people.
This accident led to the introduction of CRM (Crew Resource Management) in commercial airline cockpits, which states that important flight decisions have to be taken collaboratively.
Posted by Sigismund on February 15, 2008, at 13:30:55
In reply to Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 10:19:25
Apart from your self esteem, this kind of thing can't be much good for your thesis.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 13:43:01
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » Jamal Spelling, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2008, at 11:36:16
Thank you for your words of encouragement Phillipa. It felt really soothing reading them.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 13:51:31
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse, posted by Sigismund on February 15, 2008, at 13:30:55
> Apart from your self esteem, this kind of thing can't be much good for your thesis.
That's a good point. I sometimes wonder how this destructive relationship affects my work.
When I tried to discuss some of my concerns with him last week, he pretty much told me that I should find a different supervisor if I can't handle his criticism. But it's not practically feasible at this stage for me to change supervisors. I've gone too deep into what I'm doing, plus there are financial implications.
I was doing well up until recently. I've been off of medication for more than a year. But he is causing me to relapse into whatever it is that is busy happening to me.
I've scheduled an appointment to see my pdoc on 26 February. The days are ticking by slowly. I wish I could see her sooner. I'm going to ask her to put me on an AP so as to kill my emotion. That way he won't be able to upset me anymore.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:03:17
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » Sigismund, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 13:51:31
Maybe it's not him. Maybe there's something wrong with me. Why doesn't his other students have these problems? Or do they?
Sometimes I think it's like a cult, and I'm the only one of his students who hasn't been brainwashed yet. Maybe his other students are even more vulnerable than me, and they have already folded psychologically, which is why they no longer question how he treats them.
I don't think he's a bad person, but I cannot understand why I'm feeling the way I feel lately over the little things he does.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:08:54
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:03:17
I'm going to try to not think about him and I'm going to try to minimise the meetings we have with each other. That way he can't hurt me.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:32:04
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:08:54
It's OK. I feel better now.
I'm just gonna do my work and stay out of his way. He's an intellectual narcissist. I'm just gonna accept he always has to be right. When I'm in his presence, my philosophy will be "the professor is always right" (even when he's wrong).
He's no longer part of my psychological reality. I won't allow him to hurt me anymore.
Posted by B2chica on February 15, 2008, at 14:35:46
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:08:54
OR
USE him...
Remember his is a means to your goal. he means nothing to you other than that.
judge HIM. make sure his critisism is constructive, if it's not, critisize his critisism! you are needing advising for a thesis NOT advice as a person.
Make sure his comments are about THE paper THE research, not YOUR writing and YOUR perceptions....he can't go through your whole career with you so he needs to help guide you NOT dumptruck on your work and leave you gaping with no bandages.Remember. he means nothing OTHER than to help you through your thesis.
Separate yourself if you can. it is Very important for your health right now.good luck with your pdoc.
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:39:38
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » Jamal Spelling, posted by B2chica on February 15, 2008, at 14:35:46
I like that, lol! Turn the tables on him. It's all about who laughs last, and Jamal gon' laugh last!
Posted by B2chica on February 15, 2008, at 14:58:02
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » B2chica, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 14:39:38
thaz right J!
you go in with fire in your heart and a smirk on your face next time.
remember you are paying for HIS services. he needs to do for You.
sometimes faculty can get all high and mighty but they forget they are in a service position. they are there to GUIDE NOT CONTROL.
and even if he tells you "you are the worst writer and you will never...blah blah.." remember J. ..who is he?? a lowly professor at a college doing what? working for 100 different students.
he is not your boss, he is not your Potential employer, so who gives a rip. take it with pride and say ok if i'm that bad...i'm YOUR advisee, i've been under your tutolage how long? and i'm still bad? what are you doing so wrong that i'm still bad...and why aren't you working harder to get me help to improve?then you can snicker inside as you wait for his stumbled reply.
;^)
Posted by Poet on February 15, 2008, at 15:39:39
In reply to Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 10:19:25
Hi Jamal,
I had an emotional abusing boss and in meetings with her I used to visualize erasing her head leaving a big white circle in its place. It didn't stop the flow of evil words coming out of her mouth, but it made me feel better. I had the secret upper hand.
I think your thesis supervisor is probably very insecure about his own writing and ability to supervise a student and so he thinks he has to show you who is boss. If so he is wrong as you are the one paying him via tuition and time for his services, therefore you are the boss. So there Thesis Supervisor and one extra hard cyber slap to his head coming his way.
Poet
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 16, 2008, at 3:21:05
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » Jamal Spelling, posted by Poet on February 15, 2008, at 15:39:39
That's a good idea. Another idea I saw once is to try and visualise the person's belly button while you're talking to them. That's a good way to "humanise" them.
Next time I see him, I'm going to imagine erasing his head while talking to him.
Maybe I should try to get a different supervisor. But that could potentially backfire on me.
He's not exactly a "lowly professor". He's pretty important in what he does.
If I try to find a different supervisor, will I find one that can supervise me in the same field as what I'm doing at the moment? Will another supervisor be interested in taking me? Will I be seen as "spoilt goods" because of leaving my previous supervisor?
If I look for a different supervisor, I'll have to do it in secret. If he finds out, he'll be upset, understandably. Problem is, the prospective supervisor will want to contact the old supervisor for references on me. So I'll have to explain to the prospective supervisor that they need to keep it a secret. But then they're going to think I'm loony.
"Psst. Don't tell anyone we had this meeting. It's top secret."
It's risky. I don't know what to do. I can "be strong" for a while, but then my emotions kick in again and I feel hurt, angry and scared.
But why should I spend two years on an AP just because of him?
Like many abusive relationships, it's hard for me to escape, which is why I have to tolerate his abuse. He knows this. He knows I can't go elsewhere.
Maybe I should just cut my losses, make a clean brake and start fresh in a different field.
I'll finish my thesis probably next year though, so all I have to do is hang in there for another 18 months or so. But just the thought of meeting with him next week makes me feel physically sick with fear and worry.
He is a bully.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 13:17:08
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » Poet, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 16, 2008, at 3:21:05
Some of the best advice my T ever gave me about working with my advisor was to remember that it was a business transaction, not a social transaction. As B2c said, it's about getting from him what you need, and you're buying those services, with your tuition, with your time and your work, etc. Now you may not be able to go elsewhere with your business like you could in other transaction, but still, it really helps to manage emotions about meetings and criticism if you kept that focus in mind. At least it often did for me. Of course I needed to be reminded.... :)
I feel for you. It's a perilous, arduous journey.
Good luck.
gg
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 16, 2008, at 13:36:19
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse » Jamal Spelling, posted by gardenergirl on February 16, 2008, at 13:17:08
Thanks gg. That is also very good advice.
From now on I'm going to treat it like business. I'm the customer and he is the service provider.
This thesis is about *my* education.And I'm going to defend my decisions and ideas from now on. Provided I do it in a civil way, he can't touch me.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 18, 2008, at 15:26:48
In reply to Emotional abuse, posted by Jamal Spelling on February 15, 2008, at 10:19:25
I consider myself an "expert" in emotional (verbal) abuse; I lived it as a child and then in a 31 year "marriage."
The book that saved my life? The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans; I believe it should be required reading for everyone on the planet.
Hugs, Francesca
Posted by Jamal Spelling on February 20, 2008, at 8:28:25
In reply to Re: Emotional abuse, posted by sassyfrancesca on February 18, 2008, at 15:26:48
Thanks for the advice Francesca.
I've had some further email correspondence with him explaining how I feel about the way he treats me. Things seem to be going a bit better now. I think he now realises I'm serious.
This is the end of the thread.
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