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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 11:50:55
So in therapy he asked......
When did you hide the beautiful, vivacious, beautiful self I see in these pictures? Well, that i felt was a loaded question. And one I certainly did not have an answer. And yet I was programmed to answer questions. So I searched for an answer. And rambled. I did explain that I thought men made me hide myself and since I did not learn how to have a proper relationship with men from my very distant father. The very father that told me to my face, he did not want children ever. How was I suppose to know how to relate to men. I never did. And so I closed, slowly, the part of myself off because....
I found that....
my mother, who had tons of beauty and her affairs of which her three young girls accompanied her too, but I don't remember too much as I dissociated from most of these fun excursions, taught me that beauty was a tool used to get your way.....
and that beauty too often drew the wrong kind of insects and flies and got you into trouble....
I found myself dissociating at the end of therapy and totally missing part of it, but not totally as I remember rambling or being chatty(for me this type of dissociating is like sharing, partly there partly gone......
Then I exploded in the car going home, and crying and being so extremely angry and I don't at whom. Me or him or my parents for their lack of anything to help teach us anything. My father for not cherishing his daughters like dads are suppose too. all my father can tell you is how much we cost him in money and he loves to tell people that to this day. He told my husband when we got married he better watch his wallet. And my mother for her neglect and showing us a world too early we never should have seen, and for other stuff my memories haven't shown me yet, my flashbacks are only just now beginning to let me know. I am mad that he, my therapist, ask me to look at myself in this way, but I, my intellectual side, knows he must, but the rest of me, is hurt and mad, and when I found the answer I want to yell it at him.
I wanted to say because when the world of men(at least some)for me(I don't want to say all){that is not what I said originally now I am trying not to hurt anyone here on Babble} find beauty they just want to f--k it and then it f--ks you up....that is what I wanted to yell and I did in my car. But I don't feel any better. I guess now I must email him this answer. He said I now hide myself and don't show the world the same bright beautiful vivacious girl he sees in those pictures I brought in. I knew it was a mistake to bring in those pictures. Funny thing is I dont see that. Wonder if that means I dont see things right. Oh h*ll
maybe that just means I am just messed up in the head to much. He says I can better blah blah, but after today I am not sure....I think I will just copy this and send to him. easier. And I am sorry I am ranting I will stop now. I still don't know who I am mad at him or me. Me for never thinking about who I am. For so long I have let my family's ideas influence how I think about me and I never changed. Mainly because I just shut down. and I have remained shut down for so long...But a voice inside my head says what if he doesn't believe you...does that ever go away, thinking T doesn't believe in you...
Because he saw happy faces where I saw sad....last session was
good this was no so much. maybe I should skip the session coming up after a good one, seems like they are never good.
sorry so long...Glad I did not post while I was driving.....I was so mad....
rsk
Posted by Phillipa on January 25, 2008, at 12:06:55
In reply to So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 11:50:55
Well mine thread below is a bit like yours but keep driving as I can't do that anymore nor be alone. Anger is swallowed and I don't know what to say as I feel very confused as you do also no the situations are different but feeling similar. Love Phillipa
Posted by Happyflower on January 25, 2008, at 13:02:56
In reply to So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 11:50:55
Wow, a very hard session for sure. I think I get the anger, but I could be wrong.
Are you mad because maybe you feel he is judging you by your looks of past and present?
I know if I saw my mom doing what yours did and how she used her beauty as a weapon/tool to get what she wants. I would want to make myself ugly as possible so "her friends" would leave me alone. You don't want your T to look at you as beautiful looking either, because it will draw bad bugs or something?
But maybe your T meant, he saw you as happy in the photos and wondered what changed, but him using superficial terms like beauty makes it seem kinda cheap in a way. If I am off base, don't pay any attention to this, it was just my first impression. (((((Rhonda)))))))
Posted by B2chica on January 25, 2008, at 13:10:28
In reply to So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 11:50:55
i think you NEED your T to see what you see in those pictures.
you need to tell him what YOU see.
don't hide what you see, how you interpret those pictures. you see what you see for a reason, you see deeper than those pictures, you T needs to see that to.HOWEVER, maybe he sees something in those pictures that he sees in you now also. a spirit that is strong and enduring.
something we all see. maybe he didn't mean to bypass the pain but exemplify the strength.
and how you feel about men at that moment is how you feel, you are not ranting. dont stop expressing. you need to finish what you are saying. and maybe...you need to yell a little in session ;^)
i think it would be ok.and that voice that says "what if he doesn't believe you" , my Teen answered for me ..."TO HELL WITH HIM...THEN! WHO NEEDS HIS APPROVAL ANYWAY"
however, maybe add a little tact on there and i say that any good T worth their weight have yet to actually 'disbelieve' what a client tells...they work with them afterall, they work solely on trust...about everything you say, why would they choose to believe some of it and not other. they listen and help.
b2c.
Posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 14:33:53
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by Happyflower on January 25, 2008, at 13:02:56
Happyflower, You don't have to get the anger because I am not sure I go....but yes my mom used hers to I am not sure why I know she did not marry my father except to get out of her father's house. Nice thing to tell your children huh....and I don't remember her friends, I dissociated big time. No I do remember one of them taking us to Florida but me and my sister that fought like cats and dogs that is the only time we got along. We did not stay long. I wonder now what she told my father?
During my 20's I began to think most men just wanted one thing and they began to bug me that is the bug and insect analog, bad one probably. That was just a mad me too yelling in my head. I shut down thinking about how I looked because both sides of my family, my mom's and my fathers talked about my mom and how she was and how we were going to be like her??? so I dissociated from all of them. And in my 20's I was so dissociative that period is a big blur....
He did ask what changed. He said I remember you seemed more open and said no I wasn't I learned how to seem that way without actually being that way. I knew how to be very closed and private while seeming to be open. I dont think he understood and I shut down with him.....he did not seem to understand and I got frustrated. rsk
Posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 14:39:07
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by B2chica on January 25, 2008, at 13:10:28
Thanks B2, I needed that your post was helpful too. You are right. I have always just shut down my feelings because with my mom you had to in order to survive. She would throw you into the next day. You were not allowed to have a different opinion. And I did email him a copy of this, and added to it.
But I haven't thought he saw strengths. I don't recognize I have good qualities. I think I just do things. But you are right I do do good things and have good qualities. Because I would tell all of you you have good qualities so I MUST tell myself that too. It is important. Important that we believe it ourselves. I guess I was mad at me ALOT. Mad I had let people for so long tell me how to think. I thought when I moved away I had stopped them from influencing me but I was REALLY wrong. WAY wrong.
geez such a seemingly simple question.....thanks for reply....it helped.
rsk
Posted by B2chica on January 25, 2008, at 15:16:32
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG » B2chica, posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 14:39:07
now THAT's the kinda mom i understand.
i TOTALLY had to shut off my emotions, as they were ALWAYS held against me...pitted against me is a better phrase. cept mine was a psychological more vs a physical one.
i was egged on to get an extreme response no matter what the response be it crying, screaming or whatever, then when i'd give it i'd catch hell for it, or it would be twisted that i was the violent horrible daughter and she the innocent 'mother'...etc.
she was a constant roller coaster of emotions never knowing what was around the next corner, she could be happy giggling one minute and throwing an appliance at you the next...and i mean the next second!BUT i digress....
you have such incredible qualities rk, i can't believe that you can't see even a glimpse of them, they shine with such gentleness and safety i can't even explain. if this were utopia, you'd be a healer full of enlightenment.
and maybe you can't see her yet, but i want you to know that i picture her peeking around a corner winking gently at me so that maybe only i can see her, but she knows i see her.....she's there. and someday soon you will see her too.
maybe soon i'll tell you her color, she has her own...even though we've never met, i can see her color. (its a good one i promise).
Posted by DAisym on January 25, 2008, at 15:32:30
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG » B2chica, posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 14:39:07
I think it must be very scary for someone to have seen behind the mask a little. To notice that some part of you has gone into hiding. And is it OK that your therapist might value the part of you that you've stashed away? It all sounds like he touched a very sensitive painful place in you today.
I have always done what you do too - I dissociate but most people can't tell because I look engaged in the conversation, I'm chatty and smiley, etc. The shell that knows how to interact stays, the insides that feel run away.
Try not to close this down - it sounds really important. It is OK to be angry at your therapist, he'll help you sort it all out. I know it hurts - really hurts - so be gentle with yourself.
Posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 16:12:05
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by DAisym on January 25, 2008, at 15:32:30
But that is soooooooooo hard DAisym, I will try but I honestly don't know how. Yeah I think you are right that i dont want to go there and see what exactly is there. And that is why I am mad. He did not mean anything by what he said I am sure of it but I just got so upset. It is painful and sensitive and private and personal. Alot of p words. So much hurt is store there. But he had this puzzled look when I said that wasn't me...that accomplished, busy, I guess talented person, was covering up so much heartache, aching to be loved and no way did I let guys come home. I didn't even really date in high school. I closed myself off. They tried I guess. I mean they did. I just looked blankly at them and that is a great tool to shut them down. Because no way I was going to be like my mom. but i shut down totally. I also had no father to show me how a dad is suppose to show you how your first important relationship is suppose to be with a man. So I didn't know how to relate to my mom or dad. Wow no wonder I am messed. It is any wonder I have two great children. One is 19 at college doing great and the other is 15 boy doing great. Both are bright and outgoing and friendly. But they are real. Not faking it like I was. I hope I didnt dissociate too much with them. I did tell them I love them and I hugged them alot and kiss them alot and show them love. Unlike what I got. So I broke the cycle at least. rsk
But thanks so much DAisym, this helps.
Posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 16:14:32
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG, posted by B2chica on January 25, 2008, at 15:16:32
B2c,
Your kind words made me good cry......i hope one day i can see what you see....maybe at least my children see it....i do love children and i try not to ever hurt anyone like i have been hurt
that is important to me ....what makes mom's like ours i wonder. I have two children and i have done everything possible to be totally different from ours! and you are too......
thanks so much for this wonderful post...rsk
Posted by rskontos on January 27, 2008, at 18:47:14
In reply to Re: So he asked........... TRIGGERS VERY LONG » B2chica, posted by rskontos on January 25, 2008, at 16:14:32
Well I emailed him.........and he said that if I didn't trust him then
we would not have made progress like we had.....did I miss the progress.LOLActually I am thinking this shows the two sides of looking at things I think...I see the dark side, he the bright....
He also said" As you get closer to trusting me you feel the need at times to push away--trusting is so dangerous. Your feelings about the past are still so strong that it seems that anyone looking at pictures of it surely would experience the misery that is there for you. We have alot of work to do--"
And he goes on to say I will see you Wed. He is very positive..lol
No I guess I will go...and I am still thinking about if I do really think he believes me....not so sure about that....
Oh well I guess it is good he answered right?
rsk
Posted by rskontos on January 29, 2008, at 11:29:54
In reply to Re: Emailed him and he answered....., posted by rskontos on January 27, 2008, at 18:47:14
Well no one answered you so you can answer yourself. It is good he answered. But I think now that it is something too that you can handle inside your head too. This new conversation with your new friend is helping and maybe or maybe not your need this therapist. Maybe if you handle things on your own in your head with all your parts you can help them help you deal with each other. And you dont have to tell him all those things that the flashbacks tell you. Because after all they might or might not be understood by him the way you see them. Ultimately the way he asked his questioned hurt. And we have had enough hurt. And it is not what he meant that is important but how it felt by you. We can all understand how he meant it, but again that is not the deal, the deal is how you felt when he placed the question out there. And it sucked and still sucks. And that new program about IN TREATMENT> I don't think I like it. If I appear to him the way she appeared to me, well no thank you.
and it really doesnt matter that no one really answered me here. And that for me is growth. Earlier when I came to babble this would have hurt big time. But now I see this as a gift. I can answer myself and be free. Actually release some of this....
**To anyone that might read this I am just talking to myself. I thought since no one answered this thread no one was reading and I decided to answer myself. And I feel better in doing so....
good luck to all...rsk
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 29, 2008, at 17:17:19
In reply to Re: Emailed him and he answered....., posted by rskontos on January 27, 2008, at 18:47:14
It *is* good he answered and he gave a good answer! Sorry I missed this the first time through. I think you are making progress and I think you should continue. It's hard though, I know that.
Posted by rskontos on January 29, 2008, at 17:48:51
In reply to Re: Emailed him and he answered..... » rskontos, posted by TherapyGirl on January 29, 2008, at 17:17:19
Oh thanks Therapy Girl....I am getting anxious bout tomorrow but acting like I am not. It is my way.
I know because I have a knot in my stomach. I don't think i will sleep well so I will take something i think to help.
Yes it is. I have tried to talk myself out of needing a therapist. It is funny how we do that. And when you have so many voices in your head it is so easy as I have a rational sane one that takes over and convinces me I am ok. And doing fine thank you.
But then I go and dissociate while talking to the computer guy who is helping me try and fix my computer, who i s being paid to help me and I think whoa here you are not fine if a little benign incident like sends you off inside your head and someone else comes out and takes over. Nor did she fix the computer. LOL
rsk
Posted by Daisym on January 29, 2008, at 19:41:50
In reply to Re: Anxious about tomorrow therapy » TherapyGirl, posted by rskontos on January 29, 2008, at 17:48:51
Just so you know - I think your post might have been hidden somewhere - it popped up as "new" for me today and I was on here several times last night and this morning.
I'm so glad he answered you back. I felt like I was reading my own therapist's words, "when we get close sometimes you need to pull away" - he says it all the time. It was a nice reply, I think.
Good luck on Wed. I hope you can continue to be so open with him.
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 30, 2008, at 6:47:30
In reply to Re: Anxious about tomorrow therapy » TherapyGirl, posted by rskontos on January 29, 2008, at 17:48:51
Been there, done that on all counts. Our "sane voices" must be twins separated at birth. LOL For me, usually the more rational that voice sounds the more outrageous the premise the voice is based on is. I try to take it with a grain of salt, you know?
I hope today goes well for you at T.
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2008, at 17:52:45
In reply to Re: Anxious about tomorrow therapy » TherapyGirl, posted by rskontos on January 29, 2008, at 17:48:51
I haven't been around much, or even reading much, because I've had a spurt of working after a period of brain fog. I can't afford to do anything but work when I'm feeling this clear. :(
But I am interested in what's happening to everyone even if I can't reply, or even read, at any given time.
Posted by rskontos on January 30, 2008, at 18:39:10
In reply to I hope it went well » rskontos, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2008, at 17:52:45
Thanks Dinah for asking, I think it went well. He would say it did. We discussed how I took everything and why he thought what he did and how my pain overshadows everything. I asked a lot of questions about dissociation and the flashbacks I am having. They are getting intense especially the physical part, they are still hazy and foggy. But the physical part if rough. He tried to explain that he believe me, and his puzzled lot is not a puzzlement. And that the dissociation will get worse as I try to get closer to him, that trusting him is against anything I have ever done. But if I do get to some small measure of trust then eventually I will begin to blend some of my parts into a semi-whole and stop the dissociation so much. And I am doing it alot. Yesterday, three different times I know of. And I worked hard today to not slip away especially right before therapy as I was waiting for him, and when I went in I was in sharing mode. That is what i am calling it. I am not totally there but not gone yet. Does this make sense. I felt so threatened and in panic attack mode I was breathing fast and pacing the small waiting room and almost bolted. We ended on small talk about what I should be doing workwise. A project I have started but stopped. He was encouraging me to pick it back up. I did not leave feeling great but better than I went in. I did tell him about my more recent flashbacks, one I had as I was getting dressed, and that was part of not waiting to go to therapy. It was a rough flashback as it was a continuation of the one from last night.
I am glad you are getting work done, and had a much clearer head. It is interesting you posted, as I had last night gone back to see when you had posted last. If my computer wasn't giving me such fits, I would have posted a where were you to you.
But my computer finally would not load this website anymore and then my whole internet connection went down to the storms we had. So I didn't get to post a thread asking how you were.
We must have sent cyber thoughts...again, thanks rsk
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2008, at 18:52:14
In reply to Re: I hope it went well,possible triggers,longish » Dinah, posted by rskontos on January 30, 2008, at 18:39:10
Have you worked on coping strategies for anxiety? For grounding? They sound silly, but it's good to have them in your grasp for those times like in the waiting room. I can't remember any offhand, so I guess I'd best work on mine too.
Posted by rskontos on January 30, 2008, at 19:13:32
In reply to Re: I hope it went well,possible triggers,longish » rskontos, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2008, at 18:52:14
No not really. Just pacing, wringing hands, I tried my deep breathing from yoga, but since I just started practicing yoga I am not sure I was doing it right and it did not help so I guess I wasnt. I needed a xanax but since i didn't sleep well the night before and needed to run errands afterwards, I was afraid I would get too sleepy. Let me know if you think of any....I tried a few I just picked up to use, I have a book coming I hope will help. I will let you know if I think it does. Of course he does say this might even get worse. Something to look forward to...lol Gets worse to get better....I am not sure of that philosophy..but I guess that is the nature of therapy.
How has your therapy been going?
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2008, at 19:58:41
In reply to Re: I hope it went well » Dinah, posted by rskontos on January 30, 2008, at 19:13:32
Therapy is chugging along I guess.
Breathing exercises are good. I still use them often. There's also one where you tighten each set of muscles, then release. And guided relaxation. I've developed my own that suit me but that would be too idiosynchratic to successfully explain.
I do do this thing where I focus on the light and shadow behind my eyelids when I close them, and concentrate on forming them into the shape of my favorite black and white dog.
Grounding exercises I remember include curling your toes into the ground, or touching something in the room. I used to have a smooth rock keychain, and a tapestry purse. I would ground myself by rubbing the smooth cool rock, and the rough texture of the tapestry and really concentrating on how it felt.
Therapy can be hard. Definitely. But a lot of therapists prepare you first with a lot of coping skills exercises so that getting worse before getting better doesn't incapacitate.
My therapist assigned me a lot of exercises from the "Anxiety and Phobia Workbook" when we first started therapy. I also found Marsha Linehan's DBT workbook to have a lot of good anxiety reducing strategies.
This is the end of the thread.
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