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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on December 10, 2007, at 1:10:30
i can't do this anymore. i just can't. but it won't go away. it won't leave me alone. i try and hide from it but it keeps finding me and biting me. i'm on a road to nowhere and i just can't keep walking there.
my mum won't leave me alone. she keeps contacting me as a "caring" mother does. and it destoys me every time.
she seems so nice and she seems so caring and she seems so concerned and stuff. so it just destroys me to push her away. i feel so bad. very very deep bad. and so sometimes i crumble and try to be with her and that destoys me too. she doesn't see me. i'm invisible. i'm simply there to hold up a mirror and reflect her back to herself.
my t is trying to get me to learn to meet my own needs so i won't be so upset when she doesn't meet them. so last time i took a different approach and interacted with her, but dropped the mirror so she had to just look at me. and it was just devastating to try that. very very distressing and left me a complete wreck. and when i did finally get a response from her, she dismissed me. Dismissed me shrouded in "caring".
And now she's contacted me again and i just can't handle it. i can't do this anymore. anything i do leaves me very very bad or completely invisible, non existant.
my t keeps saying that once i'm not relying on her to meet my needs i'll probably want to be with her again. but i think that's so wrong. people only be with people *because* they meet a need. whether it's because someone is good to be happy with or sad with or they listen to you or you can caretake them or whatever. lots of different ways we look to people to meet needs.
and if i don't need mum to meet any needs anymore, then why would i want to be with her? what on earth would i get out of it? it makes no sense. i have no love or caring for her. my caring bits are broken.
and this is a really bad time of year. she puts so much pressure on me to do christmas. she forces it on me even though i clearly state i'm not participating.
i just want her to leave me alone. but i can't ask her to do that because then i'm bad bad bad.
i don't know how to do this. i can't keep doing this.
i'm such a horrible daughter. horrible beyond words. i dont' have the words for it. my mum is in huge life transition. she sold her house and moved into a caravan and is about to go caravanning for a year. it's my job to make her feel good about her changes and go visit her caravan park and check out her van and see her off and make her feel less alone and make her feel good. that's what i'm supposed to do as a good daughter. and instead i've done nothing. hidden from her. i'm the worst scum. if i was on the bottom of your shoe, you wouldn't even try to scrape me off. i'm so disgusting you'd just want to throw the whole shoe away.
i can't do this. lots of people would kill to have a caring mother and apparently i have one here and i just want to push her away. so bad.
Posted by antigua3 on December 10, 2007, at 6:35:27
In reply to evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by littleone on December 10, 2007, at 1:10:30
First of all, you are NOT all those terrible things you said. You are hurting, very badly, and are trying to learn how to cope. That you are trying is a huge step.
My mother and I have a relationship that as long as I tell her or indicate to her that I'm fine, then she's wonderful to be around. But if I let slip that I'm not feeling up to par, she goes crazy.
for me, I won't let her see the parts that are angry at her for not protecting me when I'm younger, but I'm so afraid of losing her approval. When I was little, I had to be the "good girl" always because I was afraid that she wouldn't love me or withdraw from me if I wasn't. As I've gotten older, I remain the "good girl" because I don't want to be on her sh*t list, as almost all of my siblings are. I can't risk her disapproval, yet, but I'm working on it.
take care, and you certainly aren't worthless. You have your own set of needs and don't feel guilty that you respond to her in a certain way that doesn't make her happy. That is truly her problem, not yours, but I can understand how much you feel about the repercussions for expressing yourself honestly.
antigua
Posted by rskontos on December 10, 2007, at 8:32:56
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by antigua3 on December 10, 2007, at 6:35:27
Littleone, I am a mother and it is NOT my daughter's job to tell me the changes in my life are good ones. IN fact she isn't aware of the changes right now.
so YOU ARE NOT RESPONsible to make HER FEEL good that is her responsibility. She is the adult and older than you. Don't let her guilt you into helping her feel good about herself. Tell her you wish her luck and you hope she finds what she is looking for. Tell you love her and move on.
We are each responsible for ourselves. She is responsible for her own good feelings not others. I felt that way about my own mother and still after 20 years after her death she still had an unnatural hold over me. I finally broke it. I see now I felt like you do about her. But it was not good for me and it was wrong of her to keep me tied like that.
So for your own good let go and let you mother do whatever she is going to do and stand on her own. This is too hard on you.
YOu are kind and sweet to want to do this but it is not yours to do. IT is suppose to be the other way around. Your mother needs to remember who is the mom and who is the daughter. The roles needs boundaries and definition.
Take care of yourself first. You are strong enough to do this and owe it to yourself. I feel for you as I have stood where you are standing and it doesn't feel good but you can walk forward.
rsk
Posted by star008 on December 10, 2007, at 9:42:32
In reply to evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by littleone on December 10, 2007, at 1:10:30
I know how you feel... maybe not exactly but i know..don't want to be there with her but feel guilty if I don't.. For me it was caring was too late.. Can't start caring now..
You go even though you don't feel a bond because sooner or later she will die and you will regret forever not being there.
I had to give up on my needs being met.. they aren't going to be.. When i expected nothing it wasn't as bad. I don't see my mom often but I go when I need to cause it will hurt her if I don't,
why are u invisible when u are with her?? I know I am not who I really am..
holidays s...ck... hang in there
Posted by lovelorn on December 10, 2007, at 11:11:42
In reply to evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by littleone on December 10, 2007, at 1:10:30
>i can't do this anymore. i just can't. but it won't go away. it won't leave me alone. i try and hide from it but it keeps finding me and biting me. i'm on a road to nowhere and i just can't keep walking there.
Can you define what this "it" is?
>my mum won't leave me alone. she keeps contacting me as a "caring" mother does. and it destoys me every time.
>she seems so nice and she seems so caring and she seems so concerned and stuff. so it just destroys me to push her away. i feel so bad. very very deep bad. and so sometimes i crumble and try to be with her and that destoys me too. she doesn't see me. i'm invisible. i'm simply there to hold up a mirror and reflect her back to herself.
She "seems" caring. Are you saying or feeling that her caring isn't genuine? Or, do you feel and think her caring is conditional? Like she will express her caring only if you do x, y, or z? Why do you feel invisible? Do you think she knows who you are, do you think she 'hears' you, or maybe do you think she is in some kind of denial about you? That she holds an image of you are that is not completely true and doesn't want to know the 'real' you or something?
>anything i do leaves me very very bad or completely invisible, non existant.
Anything in relation to what? Here it makes it sound like "everything" you do is very bad or leaves you completely invisible, non existant. Is it only in relation to your mother that you feel this way, or other things as well? This sounds a bit like you do things that go against your nature or what you are truly feeling, that you are just doing what others or even yourself expects you to do, not what you really feel and think you should do.
>And now she's contacted me again and i just can't handle it.
What can't you handle? And what can you do different so you can handle it.
>my t keeps saying that once i'm not relying on her to meet my needs i'll probably want to be with her again. but i think that's so wrong. people only be with people *because* they meet a need. whether it's because someone is good to be happy with or sad with or they listen to you or you can caretake them or whatever. lots of different ways we look to people to meet needs.
>and if i don't need mum to meet any needs anymore, then why would i want to be with her? what on earth would i get out of it? it makes no sense. i have no love or caring for her. my caring bits are broken.
Well, normally family members see eachother because they feel a love and attachment and are interested in how each other is doing and wanting the best for one another. Makes us feel a bit less alone in the world. Could it be there is a part of you that still needs or wants to need your mother some way that you are not getting at the moment? You say that your caring bits are broken. Do you want it to stay that way? Or, is some part of you looking to have it fixed? And for what exactly.
>i'm such a horrible daughter. horrible beyond words...
> it's my job to make her feel good about her changes and go visit her caravan park and check out her van and see her off and make her feel less alone and make her feel good. that's what i'm supposed to do as a good daughter. and instead i've done nothing. hidden from her.Well, again, normally we do want to make members of our family feel good if we don't have other issues going on. As rskontos said though, it is not all your responsibility to make her feel good. Your mom has her life and you have yours and each is responsible to themselves first to feel good about what they are doing, and then hopefully too each can get 'extra' feel-good from each other.
Think about it without the "emotions" or whatever your issue is - going to see her new caravan and saying I am glad you are doing what you want to do and wishing her well is not a huge deal. What makes it huge is some kind of huge responsibility I sense on your part that somehow you are somehow completely responsible to make her feel good, that somehow your mother is not able to make herself feel good about her ownself?
>and this is a really bad time of year. she puts so much pressure on me to do christmas. she forces it on me even though i clearly state i'm not participating.
>i just want her to leave me alone. but i can't ask her to do that because then i'm bad bad bad.
As an adult, you can ask her to leave you alone for awhile, and you can not participate in doing a Christmas if that is what you want. Perhaps tell her you are going through a rough time right now and want to be left alone to sort things out and that you will call her when you feel better able to talk to her and be with her. Why does that make you bad? Think of it as having the flu and you need to take some time off away from everyone for a time to get better. I know easier said than done. I just wanted to point out some logic in what probably seems like so much emotional charge about your relationship and the Xmas holiday, etc. Logically, you can decide to not participate as an adult, logically you can tell your mom to just back off for a little while if she really 'cares' about you, so you can get to a better place in your mind and emotion about things.
>i'm the worst scum. if i was on the bottom of your shoe, you wouldn't even try to scrape me off. i'm so disgusting you'd just want to throw the whole shoe away.
Whoa. That is a lot of negative self-talk. You judge yourself very harshly. What have you really done to think that way about yourself. Or, what has anyone said or implied to you that they think you are what you think you are. You are having some problems about caring about your mother, you have some issues that need sorting out - you are going through pain and hurt of your own and are trying to figure stuff out. Give yourself a little break and approach yourself and others honestly about that.
>i can't do this. lots of people would kill to have a caring mother and apparently i have one here and i just want to push her away. so bad.
Again, you say "apparently" - you are unsure whether you do have a caring mother or not. Something must be making you question this so much. Wanting to push her away is a sign that there is something that is really troubling and pressing on you about her and about your relationship towards her. I hope you will figure it out and will be able to come to some kind of peace about it, and hopefully too you will be able to have some kind of relationship with your mum. It may not be a 'storybook' one, but hopefully one that makes you feel a lot less harsh on yourself. As for your mum, just keep in mind that she may be in denial about some things and may always be. Hopefully though some day soon you will be able to really have a talk with her about what is troubling you and what you do and don't want from her.
Posted by Bodhisattva on December 10, 2007, at 11:20:49
In reply to evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by littleone on December 10, 2007, at 1:10:30
Your caring bits are not broken. Those parts of people are just softly spoken, so hard to hear in times of turmoil. The much louder emotions are overpowering.
Once you become self-sufficient, as your T is helping you with, your caring parts will once again be heard. Your desire to nurture and be nurtured will motivate your actions.
People that care for you, they want to help and give you what you need. That includes space when you need it. Don't be afraid to ask for some.
Posted by muffled on December 10, 2007, at 11:36:24
In reply to evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by littleone on December 10, 2007, at 1:10:30
Thats the LO I know on babble...
You help me lots.
I always love to hear from you.
Christmas is sadly often SO hard.
Those other guys sure gave some good ideas for sure.
Dunno what I can add.
Cept I consider you my babblefriend, and I know others here care for you.
So you got us in a safe way.
I not so sure wassup w/you and your Mom.
I just put on a fake show w/my Mom. I rarely talk to her. I don't really care bout my parents either somehow and I guess thats bad , cuz when I do see them they seem nice enuf.
I dunno, I dunno.
I think my Ma used to suck me dry w/her neediness maybe. I dunno.
Families are hard.
Keep posting LO.
And try not to be so hard on yourself, you are NOT a bad person, of this I am sure.
Take care,
M
Posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:28:57
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by antigua3 on December 10, 2007, at 6:35:27
Thank you for listening and understanding. It meant so much to me.
I talked to my T yesterday. I need to keep dropping the mirror down over and over. Need to make sure I don't reflect her at all in our interactions and simply keep showing myself to her each time. I know this is the right thing to do. And after a while I will learn that as long as I know I'm doing the right thing for me, then it doesn't matter whether anyone else thinks I'm good or bad. What they think can't hurt me.
Have a huge fear of being bad. If I keep exposing myself to the fear and finding that it doesn't hurt me, then it will lose it's grip on me.
Just keep at it, we're doing good.
Thank you for listening.
Posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:32:24
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by rskontos on December 10, 2007, at 8:32:56
I know all this in my head. My T has written me notes reminding me of this. I'm not responsible for my mother's feelings.
*sigh* knowing something in your head and believing it are two different things though.
Posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:41:09
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by star008 on December 10, 2007, at 9:42:32
When I interact with my mother and respond to things she wants to talk about and reflect her feelings and whatnot (ie like holding up a mirror to her so she can see herself), then she is happy and things seem peachy.
The problem is that I'm not in that picture anywhere. I'm hidden behind the mirror.
If I try to talk about me or my stuff or things in my life (ie I drop the mirror down so she has to look at me), I get nil response from her. Absolutely nothing. It's like I never talked at all. I question whether I actually said anything, I question whether I'm even there or not, I question whether I even exist. I'm invisible. I'm a nothing.
During this past year I have conducted experiments where I say something to my mother and measure her response, then I say exactly the same thing to a couple of other people. It shattered me to learn how truly unresponsive my mother is. How truly invisible I am in her presence. I was truly shocked to understand how "normal" people respond to you. I've never had that level of response in my life.
Posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:47:00
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by lovelorn on December 10, 2007, at 11:11:42
Thank you for the thought and effort you put in to your response. I appreciate that. However, I didn't feel understood. I'm sure I didn't explain myself very well. I'm sorry about that.
Posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:52:42
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy, posted by Bodhisattva on December 10, 2007, at 11:20:49
My caring bits are definately broken. It doesn't matter if it's during times of high emotion, low emotion or no emotion, there's just no caring in me at all. It is actually very very shameful for me because I'm well aware that it is a given that people care. I have learnt to appear caring at some times, but trust me, there are no caring feelings attached to that.
I can't recall that I've ever come across anyone who truly understands what this has been like or experiences it themselves.
Posted by littleone on December 12, 2007, at 0:03:50
In reply to Kind, helpful, connected » littleone, posted by muffled on December 10, 2007, at 11:36:24
Thank you for your kind words. I was going to say "even though they don't apply to me", but I guess I can be kind and helpful at times. Connected, not so sure about.
Your post gave me so much. It helped a lot. I am really touched that you consider me to be a babblefriend. I don't have any friends so this means a lot to me.
Not so sure I have babble here in a safe way, but maybe I'll try to keep posting and see. Although knowing me, probably not. I'll probably vanish into oblivion again shortly. Thank you for my nudge. Nudges do help me.
When you're already invisible, it's easy to stay that way. When someone drags you into the open, well... then you're no longer invisible and have to say something. Nudges are good.
Posted by sunnydays on December 12, 2007, at 8:21:57
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy » star008, posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:41:09
You could be describing me and my mother littleone, except that my mom adds in some criticism about my life. I'm so sorry you can relate. I'm late for work, but wanted to let you know I understand.
sunnydays
Posted by rskontos on December 12, 2007, at 13:18:49
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy » Bodhisattva, posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:52:42
Littleone, if you meaning by no caring feelings you are wrong you haven't meant anyone. I often tell my T I dont feel. When I am away from people, people that mean alot to me I don't think about them I don't remember them I don't care. I don't have feelings about much of anything. I am numb, I am flat , I don't feel . I have to make myself. So you have met someone else. My T and I talk continuously about getting båck those feelings.
What drove me to therapy is I looked around one day and said to myself why don't I feel and why don't I care. People laugh at stuff I don't because frankly I don't care too. I have to force myself not to forget I can still feel. But I have to be careful the parts of me that have feelings, whoa those feelings are out of control. They get way out there.
In having children it has been a struggle to keep caring. I love them because they are mine but they can hurt me and I have spent my whole existence avoiding people hurting me and shielding myself because both my parents did this over and over again. And children well they can rip your hearts out so I had to make myself accept that but it is hard. The hardest thing I have done. As they have neared adulthood it is so hard not to run from them because it gets tougher again. And I am still broken and not whole inside it is even harder. I start to feel less and hide more.
So I do understand what you are saying only too well. Evil, bad, awful horrible disgusting unworthy, No none of those things, I have thought all those things too, but in my limited experience it is because of trying to survive we learned to smash our emotions. We broke our caring. Or as that Gretchen Wilson song goes, "Our Give a Dam* is Broke". So true. We have to try to fix it and that my friend is a long journey and one I just embarked on.
So you are not alone in not caring not feeling. I am numb today. I had to quiet my voices in my head. I couldn't take them any longer. Take care and take heart. You are not a bad person. You are none of the those things in your regarding!
rk
rk
Posted by lovelorn on December 12, 2007, at 17:21:16
In reply to Re: evil bad horrible awful disgusting unworthy » lovelorn, posted by littleone on December 11, 2007, at 23:47:00
Thanks for the comment. I hope someone will understand you, and that you will understand yourself better too. Seek and you shall find, as they say.
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