![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 19:30:42
I said today that I feel like a dog with a bone. :(
I keep having a nightmare that is also a memory. I've had it off and on all summer. It is scary and humiliating and it freaks me out completely. I wake up and never go back to sleep when it happens.
I finally told my therapist all about it yesterday. I've told him the memory part before but I hadn't told him all the elements of the dream. We've talked before about re-scripting dreams - yesterday he asked, "Can you tell him to get off?" Ah - nope. It frightens me and I get small and the words won't come. He said it was fine, he could see I was afraid. He said not to worry if I couldn't say it, he can. And he did.
And then after the session my "homework" was to write the dream/memory out and try to put in elements of what I'd wanted to say, or to respond to the frightened little girl in some way. So I wrote it all out and then formatted it into two columns. On the left is what happened. On the right are my responses. When I read it over today, I noticed I start out strong, with lots of suggestions or things to say. I'm trying to help her escape. But once it actually starts and by the end I'm sad and scared too and completely aligned with the little girl again. My therapist said we'll work on that. He talked about power and what a hold my dad still has on me. He said it occurred to him last night that the reason I keep having this dream is because of what happened when my dad was here at the beginning of the summer. (fleeting thought - you thought about this last night?!)
Anyway - I really do feel like a dog with a bone. I can't just let go of this dream or memory, I'm reprocessing it over and over. There is other stuff going on too, so maybe that is contributing. But I need help - how do you work things out when they are stuck like this? What helps? And, when I suggested stuffing the little parts back under the bed, I was reminded that this never works and I end up feeling worse. (but denial is such a handy coping mechanism!)
Posted by Racer on August 16, 2007, at 20:05:20
In reply to Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 19:30:42
I can't tell you what helps, but I can tell you I'm there, too. It's different for me, since it's about events which happened as an adult, but in a way that's harder for me: with what happened when I was a child, I'm getting to where I can say, "An adult should have stepped in. That shouldn't have been allowed to happen. It wasn't my fault, I deserved better." Since this stuff happened when I was an adult, though -- well, it's a lot easier to blame myself, to think that they were right, I was wrong, I was so fundamentally flawed that nothing anyone did would have helped me.
And then, of course, being me, I can also blame myself for not being over it yet. I should, after all, be over it. I'm not. Every time I'm reminded of how much I'm not over it, I feel so damaged, I just wish I could lie down and never have to wake up. It just feels like way the hell too much for me.
Of course, now I've made this about me, so I can feel lousy about that, too. I suspect it's got a lot to do with my T screwing up on my appointment this week, and now being on vacation. And knowing that I really do need to leave her a message telling her that it really wasn't OK for her to screw up that way.
{sigh} Ma belle amie, you deserve better. An adult should have protected you from this. And now an adult is working on protecting you, by holding your hand while you fight those demons. I'm impressed that you can manage the suggestions at all, even if you can't manage to keep them up all the way. You know what? Baby steps. Where have I heard that before? You've made one seven league step -- and now you'll have to take a few baby steps.
xoxo
Posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 20:30:13
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by Racer on August 16, 2007, at 20:05:20
And then, of course, being me, I can also blame myself for not being over it yet. I should, after all, be over it. I'm not. Every time I'm reminded of how much I'm not over it, I feel so damaged, I just wish I could lie down and never have to wake up. It just feels like way the hell too much for me.
****I'll channel my therapist and say, "can you stick a pin in the judgements for just a minute and let yourself feel scared or angry - or both, at what happened? We both know you don't want to feel this way - but you do. So let's work with that and then we'll work at getting past it." The things that happened were awful and it is OK that you aren't over them yet. I say frequently "but all this happened nearly 30 years ago - so why is it a big deal now?" but intellectually I know that the psyche has its own time table. It will take as long as it takes to figure it all out. There is no shame in being traumatized (says the pot to the kettle.)Of course, now I've made this about me, so I can feel lousy about that, too. I suspect it's got a lot to do with my T screwing up on my appointment this week, and now being on vacation. And knowing that I really do need to leave her a message telling her that it really wasn't OK for her to screw up that way.
****NO - it wasn't OK for her to screw up. Did she forget completely? I'd be devastated particularly before a vacation. And it is OK if this is about you, I asked for people to talk to me, not just about me. Want me to leave the message for her?Thanks Racer, for saying I deserved better. We both did and do.
Posted by RealMe on August 16, 2007, at 22:24:15
In reply to Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 19:30:42
Sounds like your therapist is on the right track, and as you get stronger and stronger around this dream and can tell him to get off, I will predict the dream will go away. But you have to do it in your own time and in your own way. Faking it does not work, pretending to be strong. Believe me I know. The truth is you will actually start to feel stronger and stronger with more talk with therapist and practice of assignment. It helped you see where your strength started to dwindle, and so you know now where to start looking at with therapist what you can do at that point to feel stronger. Does that make sense. I hope so; it is much easier for me to say than to write. If it doesn't make sense, please tell me. Okay?? You know when you talk about your stuff, it helps me so much too. Gets me thinking, and this is how we end up helping each other I think. I see that as a real positive.
RealMe (OzLand)
Posted by DAisym on August 17, 2007, at 0:35:27
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger » DAisym, posted by RealMe on August 16, 2007, at 22:24:15
I hope you are right and I'm glad that I can help you in some way.
I'm hurting a lot tonight and this whole thing has been compounded by a conversation that I fell into a little while ago. I have a good friend who is supportive of everything but my therapy. She thinks I go too frequently and that I'm "wallowing" in the past. She's been in therapy herself but for very different issues and with a very different kind of therapist. So she tells me often, "don't look back, go forward." I'm trying, believe me. She stopped by my office before I left and asked me why I looked like h*ll. I sort of told her, but not completely. I skate over the abuse issues. She told me that this just isn't healthy. I need to stop talking about the past, and forgive everything and move on. And then she told how one of the things she has always admired about me is how strong and steady I am. She wondered if my therapist wasn't undoing some of that. I had no idea what to say - so I just nodded my head and said, "yes, I need to work harder to stay strong and stay in my adult self."
And then she hugged me and told me to call her if I needed her. *sigh* It is hard to figure out what the right thing to do is -- what is the best way to work through all this? Maybe I shouldn't write about it as much as I do.
You sound like you've perhaps been in this spot before. I'd love to hear what "techniques" you used.
Posted by Racer on August 17, 2007, at 1:35:08
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 17, 2007, at 0:35:27
Sweetheart, your friend did what she needed to do for herself. You get to do what you need to do for yourself. It may not be the same thing, and she may be just the slightest bit narcissistic if she can't comprehend that.
I admire you because you're strong enough and determined enough to face up to all this and work through it. Do you know that I just told my T some of the details of what was done to me -- and that it was the very first time in more than thirty years that I ever told anyone that much? That's right -- I've been able to say, "Yes, I was sexually abused as a child," but I've never once told any of the details to anyone. I'm truly in awe of you because you can say it, because you've been saying it -- you inspire me.
I hope you'll keep writing about this stuff for exactly as long as it's helpful for you. And that you'll find a way to keep your friendship with this woman, despite her skewed perspective on this one area.
Posted by annierose on August 17, 2007, at 7:06:36
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 17, 2007, at 0:35:27
I think you do need to write about it. It's a part of your history and you have tucked it into the back of your psyche for much too long. You have chosen now to start unraveling the past and with it comes a lot of hard work and worst of all, pain. You are trying to make sense of the senseless, you keep trying to figure it out. But it's not rational. It should never have happened. It's not you, it's him. But you are left with it's destructive aftermath.
I'm sorry your friend doesn't understand how important your relationship with your t is for you. She's missing out on understanding what an important lifeline he is. Can you tell her that you can't move forward when the past is still haunting you?
I'm sorry you are hurting so much. I'm not sorry you shared what happened. Keep writing, journaling, anything to help you help yourself. And as a friend, I'm always here to listen and bounce off ideas.
Posted by B2chica on August 17, 2007, at 8:01:27
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger » DAisym, posted by annierose on August 17, 2007, at 7:06:36
not everything works for everyone, but sometimes i end up getting 'angry' at a memory and instead of retreating from it i Attack it. i take a different part of me and DIVE into the memory.
i am VERY strong into music..meaning it does different things for me. so for example i will pick a song that helps me get 'into' the memory, and also a safety song to help me push it away. and play respectively.
then i let myself bring the memory, look at it, feel it, explore other parts of the picture (what else is in room, colors etc.(just learned this from T a few weeks ago) then i write about it, draw it, write a poem about my emotions of it...etc. i basically 'live and breathe' it. and within a couple days, well i can bring it close without it provoking extreme anxiety or nightmares.hope you can find some relief from it sweetie. i'm glad you T was able to 'tell him' for you. that is such a good thing. the last couple of sessions my T has done this and i've never had that before. it feels really good.
all the best
b2c.
Posted by frida on August 17, 2007, at 8:22:43
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 17, 2007, at 0:35:27
Dear Daisy,
I want to say I admire you for being able to trust and tell...Your friend just hasn't been there, so she doesn't know that even though we would like to be able to "forget it, leave things in the past and move on" it's just not that simple.
I haven't been able to talk freely, but keeping silent really is having bad consequences and affecting me greatly. Staying alone with this stuff inside is just much worse than finally sharing and processing this with someone who understands. I've tried to just stop thinking and putting it behind, and it just doesn't work. It keeps coming to me and I can't avoid it...
My T believes that putting into words everything that hides in that ugly, horrible river that is free inside and it hurts me and affects my life so much, will help to process it and at least see it as something that happened to me and not something that has so much power right now and I'm lost in it.I believe that telling can make a change...the isolation and silence and secret is like continuing what happened before. Breaking that, at least, brings the relief that we never had...of having someone to hear and believe us and make us feel clean so we can feel it'll be all right...
I'm proud of you for opening up and telling your T.
It inspires me.
Safety and love to you
Frida
Posted by JoniS on August 17, 2007, at 16:39:29
In reply to Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 19:30:42
It is unbelievable how dreams can be so intense that they can actually re-traumatize us. I am still surprised when I wake up from one of those - my heart racing, sweating all over -seemed so real. Wish I knew more to suggest for healing but there has been a lot of good suggestions made already. I guess in my case I see bits of improvement the more I talk about it.
Best to you. I know you'll conquer it in time.
Posted by RealMe on August 17, 2007, at 19:35:46
In reply to Re: Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 17, 2007, at 0:35:27
I am sorry I could not get back to you sooner, but our newish policy at work does not allow me to babble during the day.
So, have I been there before too; yes and no. I say no because years ago I did deal with a lot of things but not with the csa. I thought I was okay with it; well, guess what? It is now rearing it's ugly head, and now I can't just neatly pack it away and forget about it as I once did. It is so extremely painful to deal with this stuff, but I also know from experience that doing so makes one stronger. Please trust in your therapist.
Your friend may mean well, but she has not walked in your shoes. I had a friend who had some similar experiences and a different type of therapy. When I got ECT, she was upset with me as her mother had had a number of ECT treatments over the years, and she talks about her that her mother likes to live and wallow in her depression. So her solution for me was not to dive into stuff and feel even worse. She thought it would make me more of a victim. Her opinion. Well when I really needed her, just for emotional support, she walked away saying she could not give me emotional support. You see; she never really did deal with her csa; she just rationalizes it as she does everything else.
I am really hurt as it seems we can't be friends now, from her perspective. Have to keep things on a nonfeeling level. I can't do that. So, yes my therapy is like yours in the sense that I am going back into the past to re-experience things, all sorts of things and not just the csa. I used to be really split off from myself at different ages and with different experiences, and felt disconnected and would dissociate all the time. I dealt with that and feel more connected now, as I know me in different ways now. Probably doesn't make sense, but anyway I now am trying to look at that stuff from the past, the actual experiences of abuse, physical and sexual, and I guess the neglect as well. It is so painful to do.
I meant to get back into stuff today and just could not bring myself to do it. While I know there is always some resistance to getting back into that stuff as it is so painful and who wants to relive those experiences, it is important to do so. I just figured out why I had so much trouble today and wanted to keep things more superficial if that is possible with an analyst---not! Tomrrow morning I am driving with my husband to my home town, the place where everything happened. It is the birthday of one of my aunts, and so I said to my cousins I would come. I have not been back there since since my mother died in 1996. No immediate family there anymore; they are all deceased. |They are not there physically, but the ghosts are all there.
Take care Daisy. You ARE doing good work.
RealMe (OzLand)
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 18, 2007, at 12:52:47
In reply to Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 19:30:42
Hi daisy,
sorry I couldn't read your post in more detail. it's a little too triggering for me. I just skimmed it.One thing struck me and that was the nature of a dream as an intrusive thought. There seem to be (at least?) two kinds of intrusive thoughts. One that is trying to teach us something- like if we somehow should unlock the code all mysteries will be solved. The second is the intrusive memory that is blocking a deeper understanding of some subconscious issue, but has no intrinsic meaning itself.
Again I didn't read the thread in its entirety (or even your post), but I'm sorry that this has led to such strong ruminations. Intrusive thoughts can be very disruptive. They can be pervasive and often I find myself lost in some reverie and drifting off into lala land that is clinically known as "dissociation" hmm.
As always, I admire your bravery, and keep your feet on the ground. This will pass- your attitude is very helpful- reprocessing, not regressing.
-Ll
Posted by Honore on August 19, 2007, at 12:31:36
In reply to Processing Stuff - Trigger, posted by DAisym on August 16, 2007, at 19:30:42
Hi, Daisy.
One thing about the dream, is that you don't have to tell him anything. Eventually, the situation will change, in the dream, as it changes in life-- that is, as you work it through in your feelings.
At least that's what happened for me. I dreamed about my father every night for almost a year and a half; then the dream stopped. The dreams started again about six months later, and then they gradually began to change in content. In the dream (which I might have written about a little before), my father was dying or had died of a horrible disease. It was quite specific in the dream, although the exact manifestation was different each night-- but they were all the same, in effect. It seemed that it was my fault; or I had been the one who made it so bad that he was dying, or sometimes he would die as we sat together, because of things I said or did. Sometimes I tried to save him, but sometimes there wasn't time, or way.
In the later dreams, the disease was treatable; and although the treatments weren't reliable and could always fail, they had some success, even though the remission was fragile. I was always afraid something I did or said would end the remission and he would be dying, or in a prolonged empty state of deathliness.
What was amazing was that over time, the remissions were more complete, and more stable; and the disease even somewhat disappeared and became like a chronic tendency. I would almost forget that he could relapse in many of the later dreams.
What I mean to say is, that I never was able to make him better in the dreams; but he got better as I got better. I don't know why or how this happened, but it was so very clear over a long time of dreaming that dream.
Maybe that's what will happen for you-- the dream may not change now, but as you feel more whole, more safe, more yourself, you'll be able to change in the dream, or the things in the dream will somehow change-- and you'll be safer, or your abuser will be less able to hurt you.
If I hadn't had the experience myself, I would think it was mystical, but having gone through it, I know it can happen. It doesn't seem like a coincidence or fluke; it's a mirror of something that's real in your deeper sense of yourself and the world, which you're working on and which will be what makes the difference over time.
Honore
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.