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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 16:50:51
I have had an erotic transference toward my male therapist (I am female) for about 8 months. I told him about it 6 months ago. He is very kind and ethical about boundaries. Somehow, I guess it was a fantasy, I was convinced that at least he had a countertransference involving sexual interest in me, at least at the unconscious level. I finally discussed this with him today. He told me he had never thought of me in that way. I understand the boundary rules and his devotion to his wife and family. I did not expect that we would act on that; he made his views on that perfectly clear. In reading the pschological/psychiatric literature, I found much support for the presence of an erotic countertransference by the therapist when confronted with an erotic transference by the client. I even gave him a copy of the article! I guess I was trying to "prove" to him that he had some sexual feelings for me. And, that would have been enough for me. It would have made me feel desirable and lovable. I am still shocked that he doesn't feel this way toward me. It's amazing because others have been attracted to me with far less reason. Again, he is very kind but what a rejection! I guess I cannot make someone desire me if that it is not there. Totally rejected; he says he will be able to help me learn to validate myself which is just no help at all right now. Of course, that is the purpose of therapy but that's my head talking not my heart. Broken hearted again. How could he resist me?ll
Thanks
Posted by fayeroe on February 22, 2007, at 17:14:08
In reply to My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 16:50:51
an ethical and, therefore, useful therapist is not going to be sexually attracted to a client. i've known Ts who lost their license to practice when they overstepped the ethical boundaries of transference.
in my opinion, and you didn't' ask for it, i would change and get a female T...i feel as if you're going to lose valuable learning time by fantasizing about your T. he's made it very clear to you that "it ain't happening'......pat
Posted by scentedgarden on February 22, 2007, at 18:26:29
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me » widget, posted by fayeroe on February 22, 2007, at 17:14:08
Hi .. I can fel for you..! rejection aint nice ever...and I totally understand, how can they not fancy you feeling, well why not?? it's a toughie for me too, and I think sometimes maybe , all I wanted was to be loved that way...>>>>>> went into therapy in love with a man, and ended up falling in love with the therapist (a woman).. and a woman not my type either..but after 2 yrs...i began to fall deep in love...but it was just the same feeling i had for my primary 2 teacher, and my high school teacher...>>>I told my T all this and she wsa kool about it...said it was just feelings... but then she said if it continued i'd have to see someone else...so i pretended it ahd gone away...instead of having a safe place to let myself understand what i craved from these teachers and now her.. I just pretended the sexual attraction was gone, and i turned it all into me being her child and her my mum...she was much more kool with this.. and liked the role i gave her as my mum...she played her part very well, and encouraged me to a large extent...>>>>>>anyway i would take the advice of Pat, and get another therapist..as on hindsight my therpay for the last few yrs has been a sham in some ways...as ive been hiding very strong feelings for her..and carrying the fantasy in my head of her and me sexually...even though just fantasy it has hurt me lots and lots... So, I dont think its worth it to stay and trouble yourself with this sexual attraction issue...lets face it they aren't there to find us sexually attractive, and if they do then thre is a problem... and if we do i guess thats a problem to... Some people are lucky and can work it all out with a good competant and confident therpaist...but others are not so lucky and just cant ever get satisfaction... Every therapy is different, so you must do what you feel is right in your heart and your head..whats right for you... I took advice the other day,aand ended up regretting it big time...as it meant ti let my therpaist know i was hinking of making a complaint about her...when i wasnt sure , but i was just angry..anyway i could have covered it up and not let her know i had said that..but on the advice of someone i went ahead and let her get the message...knowing full well she would be hurt and pissed off by the mere mention of it...(a complaint) now i have made things much worse for myself... So in the end I would say do what you feel is the right course for you... As i hvae had many good things come from the mother child transference bond we have had going on...it's been incredibly intense and satisfying,...sorry if im rammbling now... good luck with this and thnaks for posting... I really do understand your frustration... but in a way your lucky..he doesnt fancy you..so you may be able to do some good work!
What I dont understand is why out of all the teachers i ever had, did i only fall in love with one of them, and to this day i still love her...24 years later..!!! and i remeber the other teacher that i really loved when i was only little about 5 or 6 yrs old...out of all my teachers why those 2??? and why this therapist??
All women by the way...so does that mean I want my mother, or i am gay?? sorry these questions are not directed at anyone in particular, im just thinking out loud ... apologies..!!! but if anyone fancies trying to sine their wise light on anyhting...please feel free!! Lastly I hope what Ive shared ,, helps in some way for you Widget..!!!kind regards
scentedgarden
Posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 21:59:53
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me » fayeroe, posted by scentedgarden on February 22, 2007, at 18:26:29
Dear scentedgarden, thank you for you heartfelt remarks. Frankly, I think Pat's comments were brutal. I already feel dead inside which is different from the other times I have felt rejection from my therapist. I am not sure the center will hold with us, I'm not sure if I care. I did not want any action on his part only a caring and feeling for me. I have been utterly abandoned. And, no, there is no other therapist in this area. Trust me, there is not. So, it's him or nothing. I feel that my passion is vitally important to me and am sick of the "rules" but most of all, heartsick that I can-not be desirable to him. So, part of me has died and I hope I feel differently eventually but I just don't care. Not angry, just disillusioned and empty. This is just like my relationship, or non-relationship, with my father. Just like it. Only worse, because I had such wonderful hopes.
I read your post about your problems and, although I don't quite understand what happened, I feel for you. Feelings are real and when you have spent a lifetime denying them in order to survive, they can be quite overwhelming. But, really, to be not sexually attractive? It didn't seem to be asking so much. Devastated....
Posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 22:17:47
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me » widget, posted by fayeroe on February 22, 2007, at 17:14:08
No, "it aint happening" for sure. But, I do not agree with you that an ethical therapist would not have any sexual attraction to a client. The literature on transference/countertransference disputes this definitely. I have read countless articles that indicate that a client's intense erotic transference toward a therapist usually causes some countertransference in the therapist. So, it must be me. Anyhow, I need to clarify that I did not expect "acting out" which is why therapists lose their lisences, only an unconscious and unanticipated attraction to the client which is sexually-based. That's all. I would like to be desirable. And, there is no other such therapist in my area. I was in therapy with a woman psychiatrist who abruptly moved, sending me as a referral to this psychiatrist who is male. I even told her that transference could be a problem, which I never experienced with her, and she said he would be able to handle it. And, he is, but, sadly, I am not. And, frankly, I'd rather be the passionate person that I am. There's lots to be recommended for being me. Sincerely, Widget
Posted by philyra on February 22, 2007, at 23:18:33
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 21:59:53
hi widget,
i am so sorry this happened to you. sounds like you're really clear on what's happening, but that doesn't make it any less painful, does it?
i think any kind of rejection from a T is especially painful. how could it not be? it's an incredibly intimate relationship. i experienced a different kind of rejection from a T once - a request that i not call at home - the T was still figuring out boundaries, was a relatively new T. no matter how gently and gracefully and directly she handled it, i was livid and very, very hurt.
but, i will say, that working through that rejection with her was a really important part of my therapy. it took a while - i want to say like a year - to feel like i said all i needed to say on the matter. but by the end i had been able to use the episode to work through some very important issues for my healing.
so, i guess i want to say, maybe if your T is skilled and caring, which it sounds like he is, you could bring these feelings of rejection and anger and the stuff about your father into the session?
take care,
philyra
Posted by widget on February 23, 2007, at 7:12:53
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by philyra on February 22, 2007, at 23:18:33
Dear Philyra, Thank you for your gentle and constructive suggestion. It is, of course, the wise route. I just feel so tired. Therapy is so much harder than I ever thought. After getting done with a session like yesterday's, at first I feel I'll be fine, no big deal. Later that evening I get a profound letdown and gutted-out feeling. I thought being sexually attracted to another of the opposite sex (this is for me) was just being human. So, if he has no counter attraction, however uninvited and fleeting, what does that say about me? I can hear what I'm saying and I'm putting too much power with him. I guess that's another core issue to investigate. But, it just gets to me and feels like I keep walking up the same old mountain every week with a new issue that I need to summon up all my courage and energy to deal with in the first place. And, when he said to not expect him to share so much about his life usually, I felt hurt and extremely annoyed. The little kid in me wanted to say "aw, just keep it to yourself, ya think I care?" Of course, I care a lot and I'm not even sure why he was making such a big deal out of what he said which was basically how he views the world as a whole, blah, blah, blah. Maybe I should have told him I planned to leak the info. to a tabloid! SHOCKING REVELATION: SHRINK TALK PERSONAL PHILOSPHY!!!!!(ha,ha, just a bit of levity). Maybe HE should lighten up a bit.
Thanks for listening, Widget
Posted by one woman cine on February 23, 2007, at 8:00:13
In reply to My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 16:50:51
Sorry you feel rejected - that's a hard feeling to work with - I would keep talking about the rejection in therapy.
A word of caution about psychiatric literature(mainly psychoanalytic in regards to countertransference)- it doesn't necessary mean that these ideas come to play across the board for everyone - in other words I wouldn't necessarily see your erotic transference as a sign of proof of his erotic countertransference.
Do you think it is possible he is not attracted to you? & why is it a bad thing if he isn't?
I think he's being honest with you as well as you said, very kind. That's a good thing in the relationship.
I hope this doesn't interefere too much with therapy your doing for yourself. Feeling rejected is painful within the therapy relationship. Hang in there.
Posted by philyra on February 23, 2007, at 21:13:50
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by widget on February 23, 2007, at 7:12:53
i like your attitude widget ;)
it's annoying when they give that speech about private life, isn't it?
hopefully this can turn into a productive thing for you. i hear you on the exhaustion factor, though. healing takes so ridiculously long sometimes...
take care,
philyra
Posted by muffled on February 25, 2007, at 0:01:48
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by widget on February 23, 2007, at 7:12:53
> Dear Philyra, Thank you for your gentle and constructive suggestion. It is, of course, the wise route. I just feel so tired. Therapy is so much harder than I ever thought. After getting done with a session like yesterday's, at first I feel I'll be fine, no big deal. Later that evening I get a profound letdown and gutted-out feeling. I thought being sexually attracted to another of the opposite sex (this is for me) was just being human. So, if he has no counter attraction, however uninvited and fleeting, what does that say about me? I can hear what I'm saying and I'm putting too much power with him. I guess that's another core issue to investigate. But, it just gets to me and feels like I keep walking up the same old mountain every week with a new issue that I need to summon up all my courage and energy to deal with in the first place. And, when he said to not expect him to share so much about his life usually, I felt hurt and extremely annoyed. The little kid in me wanted to say "aw, just keep it to yourself, ya think I care?" Of course, I care a lot and I'm not even sure why he was making such a big deal out of what he said which was basically how he views the world as a whole, blah, blah, blah. Maybe I should have told him I planned to leak the info. to a tabloid! SHOCKING REVELATION: SHRINK TALK PERSONAL PHILOSPHY!!!!!(ha,ha, just a bit of levity). Maybe HE should lighten up a bit.
> Thanks for listening, Widget
>OMG! Widget, I think you should give him this exact post!!!!!! Seriously, its a great post :)
Honest and raw. Wonderfully said.
Posted by widget on February 25, 2007, at 1:31:28
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me » widget, posted by muffled on February 25, 2007, at 0:01:48
aw, muffled, thanks a lot. You made my day. Thanks for the wonderful feedback. Do you think he could handle the post? Ha, ha. Sincerely, Widget
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2007, at 0:07:05
In reply to Re: My therapist has no sexual attraction for me, posted by widget on February 22, 2007, at 21:59:53
> Frankly, I think Pat's comments were brutal.
Sometimes it's more civil not to be frank. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by widget on March 1, 2007, at 7:39:59
In reply to Re: please be civil » widget, posted by Dr. Bob on February 27, 2007, at 0:07:05
regarding my post "therapist has no sexual attraction to me", I just had no idea that saying her comment was "brutal" was uncivil. I apologize profusely, althougth I am still confused about the rules here, as I didn't mean to be rude or uncivil. When I read her words, "it ain't happening" I was crushed. I wanted to curl up in a small ball in the fetal position and go to sleep. I was so rejected (still am) and was hurt. Thanks for listening and I hope you can straighten me out. Sincerely, Widget
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