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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 14:34:30
I can't find my T anywhere. Even when I'm right there with him, I can't find him.
I'm worried the nothingness is coming. Need to stay away from the nothingness.
The miserable 10 year old got triggered a couple of weeks ago and has been hanging around a lot more. I don't like that part. It's so unaccepting and rejecting of everything he says. I think it's why I can't find him.
When the miserable part is really bad, he plays hangman with us.
How do I find him again?
I don't want the nothingness. I know I should write or draw or something. But I don't have anything in me. I don't know why it's coming. Nothing really bad has happened to me.
How do you feel your T again?
Posted by happykat on January 23, 2007, at 18:01:13
In reply to Don't know what to call this., posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 14:34:30
littleone,
Have you tried telling your t that you feel you're slipping back into nothingness. You should let him know what you're struggling with.
Does he know your 10-year-old is hanging around alot more and rejects what he says? I know its hard when you're dealing with different parts of yourself. But its good to let your t know when these things come up.
It's hard to know how to find your t other than just letting him know you feel you've lost him and asking him to help you reconnect.
((((((((((((((littleone)))))))))))))))))))
I know I'm probably not much help. But I know that the feeling of nothingness isn't a good place to be. Let your t help guide you away from there. Take care and feel better. Stay safe.
Regards,
happykat
Posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 18:17:08
In reply to Don't know what to call this., posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 14:34:30
It's happened to me, and it terrifies me. And even though it's happened more than once, each time I'm positive that this time it will never end.
But eventually it does end, and I do feel him again.
Posted by muffled on January 23, 2007, at 18:35:26
In reply to Don't know what to call this., posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 14:34:30
> I can't find my T anywhere. Even when I'm right there with him, I can't find him.
*part of you knows he's there, if you like me, part of you is not letting him into your 'world'. Do you feel that mebbe something triggered your danger response?
>
> I'm worried the nothingness is coming. Need to stay away from the nothingness.*Nothingness is on a continum too. You can be just a little bit out or a lot out, but being a little bit out does NOT mean you will go alot out. Sometimes I come and go.
>
> The miserable 10 year old got triggered a couple of weeks ago and has been hanging around a lot more. I don't like that part. It's so unaccepting and rejecting of everything he says. I think it's why I can't find him.**ahhh. Danger response mebbe. I find it very hard when a part I do not like hangs around. What is it the 10 yr old wants do you think? Is it feeling unsafe and trying to protect? Does it need something else but can't get it? Maybe it just needs to be heard?
>
> When the miserable part is really bad, he plays hangman with us.**That doesn't sound very nice. How does that go?
>
> How do I find him again?**Your T IS there, remmeber that. You just can't acess him thru what is possibly anger of the 10 yr old. Is it at all possble for 10 yr old to talk to T? Even if its nasty?
>
> I don't want the nothingness. I know I should write or draw or something. But I don't have anything in me. I don't know why it's coming. Nothing really bad has happened to me.**Sometimes for me, I just don't know WHY? the nothingness. But sometimes I think when I fear it less, and accept that its there, but also remind myself that it WILL go away eventually. It seems to help.
>
> How do you feel your T again?**Can you tell him whats going on? Does he 'get' it?
The thot of grounding occurs to me, but I'm not sure its useful in the nothingness.
Maybe his voice? Can he leave you a voicemail to the part of you that needs him? and mebbe an accepting message to the 10 yr old? Then you can listen to the voice, and the tone of voice. Sometimes I listen to a T message and it sounds COMPLETELY different than the other times I have listened to it, and its a good thing, cuz then I get MORE out of it.
So I not sure littleone, but you sure helped me alot with stuff. Just today I talked to T bout teaching this body that its safe. NOT me, but THIS BODY. I was very clear on that.
So, its OK littleone, you are still here, your T is here, and you are still littleone, just someones fussing, and has fussed before, and you will learn from this, and mebbe you will be able to help the 10 yr old calm down a bit.
I am trying to understand.
Take care.
Muffled
Posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 20:14:58
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by happykat on January 23, 2007, at 18:01:13
he knows. he knows all this. but everything he says gets rejected. that's what the miserable part is like. everything he says is wrong. he doesn't understand. can't accept anything he says.
hate this part. can't hanlde this part. make it go away.
Posted by Daisym on January 23, 2007, at 20:18:53
In reply to Don't know what to call this., posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 14:34:30
There are elements of attachment that sometimes don't go together. One part of you can be securely attached to your therapist and another part (your 10 year old) is avoidant or at the very least, ambivalently attached. The danger you feel, the nothingness, is the void that happens when your core self is shielded from the person who keeps you steady and together -- right now this person is your therapist. It feel just terrible, I know. I've described it to my therapist as mentally running frantically around the room trying to connect with him on any level. Being so alone is horrible, awful and scary. Especially when you are alone with him sitting right there.
I agree with muffy that you have to figure out what the 10-yr-old wants, even if she just wants to be angry. If you can let her into your session, the connection with your therapist might come back. Because as much as it might feel like she doesn't like your therapist, or trust him, she is likely just really terrified of him and yets desperately wants to feel his comfort and safety too. She is just caught in all her feelings of being afraid to let him close to her. And she might be protecting some other part of you.
How to reconnect? First work on soothing that 10 year old part without wishing her away. If she likes to play games, play hangman, play speed, or jacks or whatever. Let her color, which takes less energy than drawing. Maybe just lay still and imagine a conversation with her.
Sometimes it takes awhile, so I try to distract myself from feeling so lost. And having a voice mail or picture or object that connects you to your therapist really works too. Mostly, for me, when I can finally cry with my therapist, I soften up and reconnect. So sometimes I have to do a lot of thinking and writing before I get there to see what is in the way of those tears.
He isn't really gone, littleone. He is just waiting for you to come back to him. He'll wait as long as you need him to. This I'm sure of.
Posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 20:19:25
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by Dinah on January 23, 2007, at 18:17:08
but i want him back. he's all i have. i need ot feel him so i can get through each day. my world is empty without him.
Posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 20:47:38
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by muffled on January 23, 2007, at 18:35:26
> *part of you knows he's there, if you like me, part of you is not letting him into your 'world'. Do you feel that mebbe something triggered your danger response?
inside is all walled off. can't see in. it's not even blackness and boxes. just all walled off. feels like he's walled off too. mabye he's walled off on the inside of me. so he hasn't left. he's just behind the wall where i can't se. do you think he's still here? i don't like it when he goes away
> *Nothingness is on a continum too. You can be just a little bit out or a lot out, but being a little bit out does NOT mean you will go alot out. Sometimes I come and go.
yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell if the nothingness is coming or is here already or just glaring out at you from teh bushes. i'm not lost in the horrible black yet. but i want it to go away.
> **ahhh. Danger response mebbe. I find it very hard when a part I do not like hangs around. What is it the 10 yr old wants do you think? Is it feeling unsafe and trying to protect? Does it need something else but can't get it? Maybe it just needs to be heard?
i ttied thinking of why its bad now but i get so confused. i know the miserable part came a copule of weeks ago because of how he talked about babble stuff. set it off. but this time it hasn't gone away again. didn't get hte young part back. so now everythings different. things that worked withteh young part don't work with this one. had very strong feras and worries that make no snse.
i don't know how to help this part. it's so awful. it gets so miserable and hopeless and won't listen or accdpt anything. it thinks no one understands. all too hard to say in words. it's very bad from a very bad time inm my life.
> > When the miserable part is really bad, he plays hangman with us.
>
> **That doesn't sound very nice. How does that go?it's good. hangman is that word game. except we dont use words. we use phrases. so i can send him nasty messages if i want. e xcept he gets confused with teh rusles. and doesn't drwa the hangman properly.
> **Your T IS there, remmeber that. You just can't acess him thru what is possibly anger of the 10 yr old. Is it at all possble for 10 yr old to talk to T? Even if its nasty?
the 10 yrear old isn't nasty. it's just so miserable and hopeless and wants to sink into the hole. i think it lives in the pit. i try to tell my t what it thinks adn feels. things don't go well if it starts to talk to my t. that's when we have to paly hangman.
> **Sometimes for me, I just don't know WHY? the nothingness. But sometimes I think when I fear it less, and accept that its there, but also remind myself that it WILL go away eventually. It seems to help.
but i don't want it back. it's awful. i want it to go away. i can't get out when i get lost hter.
> Maybe his voice? Can he leave you a voicemail to the part of you that needs him? and mebbe an accepting message to the 10 yr old? Then you can listen to the voice, and the tone of voice. Sometimes I listen to a T message and it sounds COMPLETELY different than the other times I have listened to it, and its a good thing, cuz then I get MORE out of it.
no can't do this. i have him on dvd. he was on tv one time and i bought it from teh tv station. except it doesn't look like him or sound like him. can't phone him cause that would be very bad. things are very very bad when i do that. i have his notes. i should read them.
> So I not sure littleone, but you sure helped me alot with stuff. Just today I talked to T bout teaching this body that its safe. NOT me, but THIS BODY. I was very clear on that.
we'll have to talk about bodies one day. i feel so separate from my body. it's like a strangething that sits down below my head. it does strange things i don't understand. it does stupid things.
> So, its OK littleone, you are still here, your T is here, and you are still littleone, just someones fussing, and has fussed before, and you will learn from this, and mebbe you will be able to help the 10 yr old calm down a bit.
> I am trying to understand.
> Take care.
> Muffled
>
fussing made me smile. wish i could see it as fussing instead of being it. that would mke life much easier.
Posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 21:07:29
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by Daisym on January 23, 2007, at 20:18:53
> There are elements of attachment that sometimes don't go together. One part of you can be securely attached to your therapist and another part (your 10 year old) is avoidant or at the very least, ambivalently attached. The danger you feel, the nothingness, is the void that happens when your core self is shielded from the person who keeps you steady and together -- right now this person is your therapist. It feel just terrible, I know. I've described it to my therapist as mentally running frantically around the room trying to connect with him on any level. Being so alone is horrible, awful and scary. Especially when you are alone with him sitting right there.
i'm sorry. i can read your words, but i don't understnad what they all mean togehter. i'll have to read you again later.
>
> I agree with muffy that you have to figure out what the 10-yr-old wants, even if she just wants to be angry.i know the things she doesn't want from al lthe things he says that she thigs is wrong. but i don't know what hte right thing woudl be.
> If you can let her into your session, the connection with your therapist might come back. Because as much as it might feel like she doesn't like your therapist, or trust him, she is likely just really terrified of him and yets desperately wants to feel his comfort and safety too. She is just caught in all her feelings of being afraid to let him close to her. And she might be protecting some other part of you.
only teh young part is connected to him. the others aren't. and the teenager hates him. the teenager screasm at him in the stuff we write out. that one swears a lot. is very nasty. but i don't know whathe miserabel part is. i thought it was started to get connected but he does everything worng. i don't know if she's scared or protecting. everythings walled off.
>
> How to reconnect? First work on soothing that 10 year old part without wishing her away. If she likes to play games, play hangman, play speed, or jacks or whatever. Let her color, which takes less energy than drawing. Maybe just lay still and imagine a conversation with her.we play hangman with my t. i can't do that on my own. i already knowthe answers. i made a nest in my safe place yesterday so maybe i'll try colouring in tonight. it's so hard to be with her. she's so awful. i can't handle her. what's the worst word in teh world for miserabel? i don't know one strong enough.
> Sometimes it takes awhile, so I try to distract myself from feeling so lost. And having a voice mail or picture or object that connects you to your therapist really works too.been dstracting all day. and carrying my hanky. don'thave my real hanky. he's getting it washed for me again. so i have a fill in hanky. i checked it iand it's not gooby from his nose.
> Mostly, for me, when I can finally cry with my therapist, I soften up and reconnect. So sometimes I have to do a lot of thinking and writing before I get there to see what is in the way of those tears.
writing is getting harder. was getting ready to put my running shoes on yeasterday.
> He isn't really gone, littleone. He is just waiting for you to come back to him. He'll wait as long as you need him to. This I'm sure of.i don't lik it when he goes away. i don't hink he means to go away. he's alwasy so nice when i see him. i wish i could glue him to me. he's a good waiter. he waits a long time for me. i don't mean a restaurant waiter. i mean a waiter waiter.
Posted by muffled on January 23, 2007, at 22:10:11
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » muffled, posted by littleone on January 23, 2007, at 20:47:38
> inside is all walled off. can't see in. it's not even blackness and boxes. just all walled off. feels like he's walled off too. mabye he's walled off on the inside of me. so he hasn't left. he's just behind the wall where i can't se. do you think he's still here? i don't like it when he goes away
**I TOTALLY beleive he is still there. You just can't see him yet, but you will, this time will pass.
> yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell if the nothingness is coming or is here already or just glaring out at you from teh bushes. i'm not lost in the horrible black yet. but i want it to go away.
**Try not to be afraid of the black.The black still seems scarey, but try not to get scared of the black. Just like the sun rises and the morning gets light again, so does the black go away. The black won't stay.
> i ttied thinking of why its bad now but i get so confused. i know the miserable part came a copule of weeks ago because of how he talked about babble stuff. set it off. but this time it hasn't gone away again. didn't get hte young part back. so now everythings different. things that worked withteh young part don't work with this one. had very strong feras and worries that make no snse.
**Yeah, my bad one is very young, I seem to be able to mostly set her aside, but she still bothers me w/her screaming sometimes. But she seems to calm down somehow eventually.
>
> i don't know how to help this part. it's so awful. it gets so miserable and hopeless and won't listen or accdpt anything. it thinks no one understands. all too hard to say in words. it's very bad from a very bad time inm my life.**My young part, I had given up on her, ALL of me had given up on her. But there was a part I didn't know that did care bout her. But I don't. I just want her to go away.
> it's good. hangman is that word game. except we dont use words. we use phrases. so i can send him nasty messages if i want. e xcept he gets confused with teh rusles. and doesn't drwa the hangman properly.**Your T doesn't get it right! You need to teach him then. Sounds like a good game. mebbe I can try it w/my t cuz my little one doesn't seem to be allowed to talk, or mebbe she's too shy.
> the 10 yrear old isn't nasty. it's just so miserable and hopeless and wants to sink into the hole. i think it lives in the pit. i try to tell my t what it thinks adn feels. things don't go well if it starts to talk to my t. that's when we have to paly hangman.
**yeah, I can see that. Hangman is a very clever thing. My ikid says that other kid in me is swampweed. Maybe the 10 yr old would like to have a real name of his/her own? Sometimes thats nice, sometimes they don't like that. Your 10 yr old can come to my mossy place that my T made me. Its all soft moss that you can roll around on, and if you fall down its soft, and there's a little creek too. And trees so the sun is not hot and doesn't hurt your eyes. And rocks with BUGS! under them!!!!!!! and the water has stuff in it too. Sometimes if you lucky you can find a CRAYFISH!!! in the creek. But they pinch, but its not so bad. And sometimes I can sit and watch a spider make its web, takes a long time, but its so cool. Anyhow, this mossy place is always safe, noone can get me there, and if 10 yr old wants to go there she can. And part of me has been in the hole, so we kinda know bout that, so if 10 yr old wants company, we can play, or not play and just look for cool stuff, or she can be there by herself if she wants. This is long, but the place is very cool.
> but i don't want it back. it's awful. i want it to go away. i can't get out when i get lost hter.
**Thats it. Maybe you can't get out in your own way, but you DO come out somehow. Me too. I dunno how I come out, but I just do. I know I will always come out. I always do. Its like a law or something of the nothingness. That if you go in, you ALWAYS come out. Just the way it is. So now for me I don't like it, but I not so ascared of it either now.
> no can't do this. i have him on dvd. he was on tv one time and i bought it from teh tv station. except it doesn't look like him or sound like him. can't phone him cause that would be very bad. things are very very bad when i do that. i have his notes. i should read them.
**good for you. I like my T's handwriting too! Don't care bout the words, I just like to see the writing. I think it would be weird to me to see my T on TV. Kinda freaky. But thats just me. I can understand why you can't phone him right now.
> we'll have to talk about bodies one day. i feel so separate from my body. it's like a strangething that sits down below my head. it does strange things i don't understand. it does stupid things.**My body feels bad ways sometimes, but I didn't tell my T that. Sometimes I look at my body doing things. But it doesn't do strange things I am glad to say, but maybe sometimes I am bad to it.
> fussing made me smile. wish i could see it as fussing instead of being it. that would mke life much easier.
>
**Is 'it' , a sad thing? Sometimes I can feel sad things, but I make it go away very fast. I am too good at this cuz sometimes I want to understand stuff but I can't cuz I make it go away but I don't want to. Sometimes it WON'T go away, but that is very rare to happen to me. My security system is very fast and very good.
I do not know your T, he sounds like a good T. I wish I knew your T so I could tell 1o yr old its OK, and it proly is, but I can't say if I don't know. But I bet it is. I have never heard littleone say T is bad, so he's OK I think.
Good night,
Be in your safe nest, and if you like you can be in the mossy place.
Muffled
Posted by littleone on January 24, 2007, at 19:33:49
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by happykat on January 23, 2007, at 18:01:13
I’m very sorry about yesterday. I guess my responses to you both must have been civil, but I don’t think they were very nice. I just wanted you to know that I really appreciated you both taking the time to read and respond to my post. And that even though my responses to you were rather rejecting, I did in fact take on board what you both said.
I’m really sorry if my replies hurt you at all.
Posted by littleone on January 24, 2007, at 19:34:42
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by muffled on January 23, 2007, at 22:10:11
Thank you for talking to me yesterday. I guess I wasn’t feeling too good at the time. Your replies helped me a lot. I think I will get a lot out of taking this thread to my T and having a look at which comments helped or didn’t and why. Hopefully this will help me figure out what it is exactly that the miserable part actually needs from me.
I know I need to be accepting of it and learn how to comfort and soothe it. But when it’s nearby I get so overwhelmed and panicked and just want to get right away from it.
I’ve put a lot of thought into the idea that the parts are simply disowned aspects of my self. And that to heal I need to “own” and accept those parts of my self. Easier said than done.
And muffled, I did go and visit your mossy place and searched for cool stuff with your inside kid. We found the best bugs. It was so nice. Thank you for letting me visit your special place.
Posted by littleone on January 24, 2007, at 19:38:36
In reply to Re: Don't know what to call this. » littleone, posted by muffled on January 23, 2007, at 22:10:11
Just wanted to put these down here so they are set in stone.
- The Nothingness is on a continuum. You can be on the edge of it or a little bit lost, but that doesn’t mean you will become totally lost in it.
- Danger and fear drive the Nothingness, so if you are less afraid of it, it loses some of its power.
- Likewise, building safety also diminishes its power and increases your own power.
- There is nothing to fear in the Nothingness. It was your safety for years. Now it is simply counterproductive and inconvenient. It is not a monster to be feared.
- No feelings last forever – not even the Nothingness.
- Just like the sun rises and the morning gets light again, so too does the blackness go away. The Nothingness cannot stay forever. There is always balance between dark and light.
- You always find your way out of the Nothingness eventually. If you go in, you always come out again.
Posted by muffled on January 25, 2007, at 0:20:58
In reply to Muffled + Daisy, posted by littleone on January 24, 2007, at 19:34:42
> Thank you for talking to me yesterday. I guess I wasn’t feeling too good at the time. Your replies helped me a lot. I think I will get a lot out of taking this thread to my T and having a look at which comments helped or didn’t and why. Hopefully this will help me figure out what it is exactly that the miserable part actually needs from me.
**Sounds good
>
> I know I need to be accepting of it and learn how to comfort and soothe it. But when it’s nearby I get so overwhelmed and panicked and just want to get right away from it.**I TOTALLY get that. I can't even feel my kid at barely, as soon as start to feel her I panic and shut down.
>
> I’ve put a lot of thought into the idea that the parts are simply disowned aspects of my self. And that to heal I need to “own” and accept those parts of my self. Easier said than done.**Oh I understand this logically. It makes sense.....
But I just am not ready to consider this at this time :(
>
> And muffled, I did go and visit your mossy place and searched for cool stuff with your inside kid. We found the best bugs. It was so nice. Thank you for letting me visit your special place.**Isn't it the COOLEST! I love it there very much.
Glad you seem to be feeling a bit better today.
Take care,
Muffled
>
Posted by muffled on January 25, 2007, at 0:21:57
In reply to Rules + Laws of the Nothingness, posted by littleone on January 24, 2007, at 19:38:36
> Just wanted to put these down here so they are set in stone.
>
> - The Nothingness is on a continuum. You can be on the edge of it or a little bit lost, but that doesn’t mean you will become totally lost in it.
>
> - Danger and fear drive the Nothingness, so if you are less afraid of it, it loses some of its power.
>
> - Likewise, building safety also diminishes its power and increases your own power.
>
> - There is nothing to fear in the Nothingness. It was your safety for years. Now it is simply counterproductive and inconvenient. It is not a monster to be feared.
>
> - No feelings last forever – not even the Nothingness.
>
> - Just like the sun rises and the morning gets light again, so too does the blackness go away. The Nothingness cannot stay forever. There is always balance between dark and light.
>
> - You always find your way out of the Nothingness eventually. If you go in, you always come out again.
>
**Love this. i am gonna print it out.
:)
Posted by happykat on January 26, 2007, at 12:12:46
In reply to Happykat + Dinah, posted by littleone on January 24, 2007, at 19:33:49
No worries littleone. :) Hope you're doing better.
Regards,
happykat :)
This is the end of the thread.
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