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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llrrrpp on September 12, 2006, at 22:53:47
Contents of post-it note found in pocket of young woman after her session with T.
1) I'm a waste of time/ a burden
2) I can get through this on my own
3) I'm only getting better because I like to please you
4) It matters to me that you enjoy working with me (or that you get *anything* positive out of working with me, besides your paycheck)
5) I don't like being selfish.Actual outline of session.
0-6 mins "I'm fine. [staring at floor] i got some work done. it was okay. i like working now."6-14 mins "let me tell you more about my work. maybe it's relevant to clinical psychology"
15-20 mins "my mom thinks my uncle may have been murdered in his institution, but I think it was a suicide"
20-40 mins [grinning smiling cracking jokes] "haha. haha. haha" [isn't he at all concerned that he is making me think about bad things, telling all about suicide autopsies, and his work with the criminally insane? why doesn't he seem to notice that I'm not so comfortable talking about one of his patients who died during a "session?"] Haha, that sounds really hard. What is THIS then, your fluffy day job? ha ha [no comment. maybe this job bores him off his *ss, but it's got great benefits. f*ck me. why am I still here?] "I know I'm not like those people. I actually am responding well to medication." [yes, and respond well to therapy too, well maybe when I can actually talk about the crap I wrote down on my post-it note. WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT DEAD PSYCHOS? WHY THE F*CK WON'T HE LET ME CHANGE THE F*CKING TOPIC?]
40-41 min "Haha, well this has been lovely. I think I'm done. time is out right? I think I'm done. haha"
41-42 min "my omelette needs a few more minutes in the oven before what? before I'm fried? before I'm baked? -- a low fat omelet? Oh okay. I'm done for today then. Bye!!!!! Hahaha"
42 min "mumble mumble. sure, whatever haha"[HOLY ROMAN F*CK. I KNOW THAT GUY FROM MY OLD JOB. OH GOD. HE'S GOING TO THINK I'M a F*CKING LUNATIC. play it cool, sistah, smile, make eye contact. don't worry, you didn't almost run him down. coast is clear. run run RUN!!! I can't believe T just set up the next appt as I was running down the hall away from him] haha! oops, sorry [Oh F*CK. someone just opened the door to the psycho-house and I was right there. AwKwArD!?!?] hahaha. [I'm so pleasant, so charming and witty. bubbly conversational partner. WTF did T need to go on and on with the post-mortem, investigations, dying, suicide, inquest stuff for? hanging? murder? don't matter to me. feel bad for the post-it note though] hahaha. what a nice day today is. how are You doing? haha
Posted by muffled on September 13, 2006, at 0:24:37
In reply to Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head, posted by llrrrpp on September 12, 2006, at 22:53:47
Bastard.
I think you should send him this post.
He was out to lunch.
So sorry, that was awful.
Glad you dumped your crap here.
Needed to be dumped.
But I think you should throw this sh*t right back at him, give him a chance to explain himself.....
Or to realize what an utter insensitive idiot he was....
:-(
Posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 7:19:44
In reply to Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head, posted by llrrrpp on September 12, 2006, at 22:53:47
Muffled,
the thing is, I have *a lot* of fun cracking jokes with T. I really enjoy his sense of humor, and he probably enjoys mine too, because I can joke about crazy people. I could totally hang out with him at a bar, and listen to all kinds of stories about the criminally insane. But he's not my bar buddy, he's my T. I know he knows it. He's very good at what he does. Even if he was a little sleepy for the first 5 minutes of the session.I wonder if the reason he kept going on like this was because he was testing me. To try to get me to say something like "This is upsetting me. Can we talk about something else?"
And I flunked the test. Rather than talk about my feelings (which is one of my big areas to work on) I used every defense mechanism I had- sarcasm, verbal sparring, humor, and eventually, fleeing the scene of the crime...
Crap.
Oh well, there's always next week. Omelette's got a few more hours, you know?
Seriously, this is SOOOO hard sometimes, to sit and watch my session go by like this, knowing that the post-it note is in my pocket. dammit!
Can't write him an email. He wants me to say it OUT LOUD. ugh. double ughs. infinity ughs.
Well, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, he says he's seen it all, and yes. I believe him. really. No need to go on about all that you've seen. But maybe it's been a while since he worked with someone who knows the things on my post-it note, and has been wanting to say them for weeks now.
shoot.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2006, at 9:04:29
In reply to Re: Taking a dump gotta loada crap in my head » llrrrpp, posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 7:19:44
maybe...
you could talk to him about making a time... some time when you are settled in to the session and are kinda semi sorta relaxed... where he asks you specifically if there is anything in particular that you would like to talk about.
so there is a moment... if the timing is right... where you have the opportunity... to tell him what you have on your post it note.
and if you don't have anything then its okay you can keep joking and stuff. sometimes its good to joke when you are coming out of a depression. joking around can be a good way to feel more comfortable around each other too so that you feel better able to say what is on the post it note. but then sometimes... it can be counter-productive too.
sometimes... t's just mistime / misjudge things. maybe... he didn't think you had anything in particular to say. maybe... your nervousness about what you wanted to say came across as anxiety about seeing him more generally so he was trying to help you feel more comfortable. of course... i have no idea really.
but i know i've been to many sessions where what was on the post it note never got said.
because i didn't feel like there was an appropriate time.
so... if he doesn't want you to email him what is on the post it note he will just have to make time for you to say it :-p
Posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 9:30:19
In reply to Re: Taking a dump gotta loada crap in my head, posted by alexandra_k on September 13, 2006, at 9:04:29
> maybe...
>
> you could talk to him about making a time... some time when you are settled in to the session and are kinda semi sorta relaxed... where he asks you specifically if there is anything in particular that you would like to talk about.oh boy. that would be indicating that I *need* therapy. hahaha
> so there is a moment... if the timing is right... where you have the opportunity... to tell him what you have on your post it note.
been waiting for weeks now. it's my moment to make, not his.
> and if you don't have anything then its okay you can keep joking and stuff. sometimes its good to joke when you are coming out of a depression. joking around can be a good way to feel more comfortable around each other too so that you feel better able to say what is on the post it note. but then sometimes... it can be counter-productive too.
joking is good. i like having rapport. it makes things more comfortable. but in my life I've been plenty comfortable with people that I wouldn't trust further than I can throw them.
>
> sometimes... t's just mistime / misjudge things. maybe... he didn't think you had anything in particular to say. maybe... your nervousness about what you wanted to say came across as anxiety about seeing him more generally so he was trying to help you feel more comfortable. of course... i have no idea really.
>
> but i know i've been to many sessions where what was on the post it note never got said.
>
> because i didn't feel like there was an appropriate time.
>
> so... if he doesn't want you to email him what is on the post it note he will just have to make time for you to say it :-pI think you are dead-on absolutely correct with this assessment. I wish that when I am feeling better I still felt like it was "okay" to talk about uncomfortable stuff. I feel like I have to get into the mentality that just because my mood and cognitive symptoms are much improved, doesn't mean that I can stop participating in healing. I just wish that the healing weren't so painful.
I also have to learn to trust T again, I trust him with depressed llrrrpp, but I'm not sure I trust him with regular ol' llrrrpp. I'm not sure that he can handle me when I'm regular. I'm not sure that he has much to say to me, or gives a crap about me. That's a problem, I guess.
maybe I should send him an e-mail that says: ask my about my post-it note next session. simple, plain, benign.
I've had the contents of the post-it note in my head for weeks and months, but have only recently screwed up the courage to write it down on a post-it note.
And more recently still to have the guts to post it on babble.
I will need a bravery transplant to utter the post-it note words to his face.
I can think of some bravery donors... um, elaine? you there? you've got some you can loan me for an hour next week, right? and I know lots of others too.
Muffly will hold my hand, right muffly?and Alexandra, would you mind if I give you the role of being my accountant? I will answer to you, one way or another about whether I say them
5 essential post-it note points of my fears of human attachment? expect an update next week.
boo hoo.
I'm going to write T an email now. before I chicken out. but I'm going to schedule the e-mail to be sent closer to my session.-ll
Posted by Dinah on September 13, 2006, at 10:02:27
In reply to Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head, posted by llrrrpp on September 12, 2006, at 22:53:47
Post it notes are pretty cool. You can take them and put them on your handbag, or on your appointment card, or on your arm, or on your forehead. :)
That way you can have a little boost to bring it up first thing and get it over with.
It's really not so bad. They're trained for this, and won't be upset if you express yourself frankly.
And if he chooses to go off into a topic that interests him more than it interests you, and won't let you change the topic, you're allowed to tell him you think this is not relevant and to very firmly change the subject.
Sounds like he had a Very Bad Day.
But you're Very Good at expressing yourself frankly but without offense. I have every confidence that you can do this.
Posted by Tabitha on September 13, 2006, at 10:44:01
In reply to Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head, posted by llrrrpp on September 12, 2006, at 22:53:47
I really like your post-it note, esp. "I'm only getting better because I like to please you". How often I've suspected that about my relations with my various healing professionals!
But lurpsie, I'm sorry your T rambled on and on. Seems odd to me because my T is the type to not share anything at all about herself. How about taking that post-it next time and then you can talk about why you left it in your pocket all session?
Posted by happyflower on September 13, 2006, at 11:09:20
In reply to Re: Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head » llrrrpp, posted by Tabitha on September 13, 2006, at 10:44:01
Hi ! I am sure you T enjoys you as much as we do here in Babble. I must admit I have had sessions like yours. My T and I do have a wonderful banter (you should see what we say about stupid people). But sometimes I have to say , hey wait a minute, I need to change the subject.
But yeah, we could go on and on , we are that comfortable with each other. We talked about it would be fun to smoke a joint together even and both of us don't do that anymore! LOL I guess we just enjoy each other wit. But it does get a bit carried away now and then.I think your T was just being honest, maybe too honest for your comfort. You think? Maybe you are seeing my T's brother who is also a T where you live! LOL Wouldn't that be funny! ;-)
Take care, you know what to do.
Posted by happyflower on September 13, 2006, at 11:10:35
In reply to Re: Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head, posted by happyflower on September 13, 2006, at 11:09:20
By the way I just love your subject line! It just cracks me up!
Posted by ElaineM on September 13, 2006, at 16:42:36
In reply to need a bit o' babble supportin' » alexandra_k, posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 9:30:19
LL: I think he was pretty insensitive. I'm sorry you feel like you are a burden and have to get through psychological-life on your own. I kinda don't think anybody can -- or should. (((((LL)))))
>>>>>I wonder if the reason he kept going on like this was because he was testing me. To try to get me to say something like "This is upsetting me. Can we talk about something else?"
Possible, though I wish he'd pick some other subject to faciliatate such a therapy techinique. I think you had every right to be very upset by him persisting with the topic, in the way you described. I mean there's candor, and then there's being cavalier -- which I hope it wasn't. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's doing, or isn't nice, I'm just protective of my friends. I still think that it'd be good to mention how it did upset you -- and that would kinda be like a Post-It moment itself.
>>>>And I flunked the test. Rather than talk about my feelings (which is one of my big areas to work on) I used every defense mechanism I had- sarcasm, verbal sparring, humor, and eventually, fleeing the scene of the crime...
I don't think you flunked. Yes, you are skilled with words, but you know, part of his job is to see behind that. You sound like you're trying to make up the test and write it, all at the same time. (((LL))) If he noticed you getting aggitated, and asked what was going on, do you think that you would've brought up your list? Or do you fear that if you appeared to need to be treated with more sensitivity, that you'd lose the raport and all his stories and jokes?
>>>>I wish that when I am feeling better I still felt like it was "okay" to talk about uncomfortable stuff. I feel like I have to get into the mentality that just because my mood and cognitive symptoms are much improved, doesn't mean that I can stop participating in healing. I just wish that the healing weren't so painful.
I think it's "easier" to ask for help when you're at the bottom -- a touch of desperation probably. But when you're anywhere else but there, it's hard. What you're talking about makes me think of AN: just because the weight goes on, doesn't mean you're recovered, and doesn't mean you don't need gentle help anymore. If anything, that's when I always needed it most of all. I think it's the same for most conditions. Just because you're meds are working, just cause you're not at your lowest anymore, just cause you have the wit, doesn't mean you don't deserve to be taken care of in the "warm and fuzzy therapy" way sometimes. I don't mean tons of hugs and all, but I think you want to know that he cares. And that's not selfish -- that's just human. Just because you're feeling stronger, doesn't mean you have to *be* strong all the time.....okay that sounded like a load of crazy cr@p, but I'll just pretend you know what I mean ;-)
And as far as the bravery thing goes, I've been stockpiling all the encouragement you've been giving me for weeks incase you ever needed a little of it back yourself. So you may have as much as you like :-) Please say how it goes: even if you only manage to say one of the points.
blove, EL
Posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 20:06:24
In reply to Re: need a bit o' babble supportin' » llrrrpp, posted by ElaineM on September 13, 2006, at 16:42:36
thanks elaine. I needed that. :')
I'm going to write more below. I have a lot of strong feelings right now. Thanks for your courage. I have my next appt. sch for 6 days from now, so we'll see.
-ll
Posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 21:19:07
In reply to Re: Taking a dump **trigg**gotta loada crap in my head, posted by happyflower on September 13, 2006, at 11:10:35
So, here are some recent thoughts that are running through my head.
1) I have decided that therapy is the hardest thing I have ever voluntarily done in my entire life. It's harder than preparing and performing my solo violin recital in college. Harder than my master's thesis write-up and defense. Harder than high school, or living abroad as a 17-year-old.
I have decided that since therapy is so hard, and I'm here voluntarily, since I might not need it 'cause I'm almost functional... why bother with the anxiety and the fall-out every week? I'm sick of getting myself all worked up over seeing the therapist. I'm sick of the whole scene- looking over my shoulder to see if I know anyone watching me go into the building where the T's live. I'm sick of the waiting room, and the feeling of being part of "the system". I'm done with it. I don't even want to go back for my next appointment.
2) I have decided that wanting my T to like me is perfectly normal. That's how I am with most important people in my life. I'm not sure if I can handle the answer to this question, though: "Hey T, do you get anything positive out of working with me?" And why does it matter to me so much? Why does it matter that I feel like I'm important? Why can't it just be enough that I take up an hour of his life once a week, and that he participates in that hour?
3) I'm sad. I want to tell him. But I cannot. It makes me sad that I can't tell him that I feel sad because I can't tell him that I feel sad.
4) replace "sad" with "mad" above.
5) I want an extra session, just to yell at him, cry all over the place and go bonkers. But I don't feel I deserve one. If I got one, I wouldn't have the chutzpah to go
6) I want to stop coming forever and ever and not contact that place ever again and do something horrible to myself-- just to show "them" that maybe "they" should take me more seriously.
7) I wonder. why do I care about my T as a person? I'm not romantically attracted to him. He reminds my of one of my professors in college who I was fond of, but not attracted to. I like his sense of humor, and I think he has a lot of interesting things to say. I don't think I need him to "approve" of me, the way that a parent might. I guess I just wish that he would say maybe once-- that I'm going through a lot, and he thinks I'm doing really well. I wish he would make it easier for me to talk about the hard stuff. I feel like I'm going to see the principal or something. Confess my sins. I'm so f*cking confused. I don't even know what to think of him. I'm just sick of the whole f*cking thing. I'm ready to give up. Either give up the therapeutic relationship, and I'll just go in for a chat and a laugh, which is fine with me. Or give up on going in altogether.
So what? I feel like I have to tell him this stuff. in some form one way or another. He's probably working with the criminally insane tomorrow. never reads my emails anyways. I just wait. wait wait. i'll probably be back to cheery llrrrpp by the time I seem him next week. and then it starts over and over and over.
this is such a f*cking waste of my precious mental energy. I don't have enough power to give him (or therapy, or recovery, for that matter) so much real estate in my mind.
f*ck this.
*****************oh goody It gets better and better.
Husband just called. said I sounded upset. Asked me why. I said I am upset because I didn't get to say stuff to T that I wanted to. He said, well, why don't you write it down on a note, you forget stuff sometimes (he knows me too well...). Honey. I DID write it down. I just didn't have a chance or the guts to say it. I went to go get my post-it note to read to Husband. I said, maybe if I practice on you, it will be easier when I go see T.
[note: husband is skeptical of psychotherapy. hates the idea, hates the practice, hates it all. probably hates the fact that I feel the need to go. thinks anyone can heal themselves. We've had a few heated "discussions" on this topic, by the way. I'm not sure why I thought he was a good person to try out my list on.]
1) I'm a waste of time a burden
H: well, come on, I mean, it's not like he's getting a lot of money or anything from you (I pay cheapo student rate). You know how it is, when you have a sh*tty job that's predictable, you go, but you don't really care that much.
Me: Honey, that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I know that that's how most people approach their jobs. Sometimes he seems bored or distracted. It usually passes, but it was especially pronounced at the beginning of my session on tuesday.
H: so what? he's just there to do his job
Me: if I don't think he cares, I can't trust him
H: just treat him like a business relationship. I mean, tell him what he wants to know. I don't like shrinks anyways... launches into his tirade...2) I can get through this on my own
H: I've always said that. just take the medicine. you'll be fine.
Me: (exhasperated sigh)3) I'm only getting better because I like to please you.
H: huh? what does that mean
Me: well, I spend a long time talking to him, and I don't pay him enough to make it worth his while. the least I can do is get better, right?4) It matters to me that you care about me, and that you enjoy working with me.
H: why don't you just quit with this guy? If it's so important to you, we'll just pay for it. And then you won't have to worry. You always worry about such little stuff anyways.
Me: long pause. very long. debating whether I should hang up on H.
H: you still there?
Me: I don't want to talk about it anymore. You don't understand how I'm feeling. I don't want to talk about my feelings to anyone who won't understand them, or at least appreciate them, or listen. That's kind of why I see T. You know what? I think this conversation is over. You just don't get it.
H: I can listen. I won't say anything, I'll just listen. You know *I* care about you.
Me: [resigned] just... I don't know. why don't you go have a nice evening. go eat a steak or something (he's on a business trip).
ugh. remind me never to do this again.-ll
Posted by pegasus on September 14, 2006, at 9:03:55
In reply to What's the matter with me? LOOoooONG » happyflower, posted by llrrrpp on September 13, 2006, at 21:19:07
Yeah, I've had similar conversations with my DH, although he sounds a tad more accepting of it than yours. But he totally doesn't get it.
When my T of 2 years suddenly announced that he was moving away and closing his practice, I went home and crawled under the covers and cried for an entire day. When my husband came home and discovered me there, he asked what was wrong. I told him T was moving away. He said, brightly, "that's too bad." And went off to get a snack and watch tv. He just totally doesn't get it.
p
This is the end of the thread.
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