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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunnydays on September 8, 2006, at 22:32:26
Okay, so I feel really bad posting this when so many people are having a hard time right now, but here goes. And I'm paranoid my T reads this, but I guess I'll chance it. It just meant so much to me. My T and I were talking today and I asked him at one point if he was sick of me. He said no, and we were talking some more about different things. And then I said, are you sure you're not sick of me? And he said yes, and asked me why I wanted to know, was I picking up on something or did he say something, and I said no, but then he asked if I was sure. And he had suggested a group earlier, and I said I was worried that that meant he was sick of me, and he said it absolutely didn't, that he expected to keep seeing me, that he appreciated me and wasn't at all sick of me and that he wouldn't abandon me. And we talked about how this is probably old tapes that are telling me this. And he said that it's just what happens when you 'develop feelings for someone' and aren't used to it.
So that was really nice, and I really felt held then, almost, if that makes any sense. So why tonight am I convinced again that I'm too much and that he's sick of me? I sometimes email him, and I'm afraid to email him because I think he's sick of me. But I know he's not, because he was so nice to me today.
Again, I hope I didn't upset anyone by posting that. I just am kind of torn up about it, and it's so confusing and it makes me sad almost that I can't make it stick in my head. Has anyone else had their T tell them they will be there for them and then managed to convince themselves otherwise? I don't know, I'm just confused.
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on September 8, 2006, at 22:55:13
In reply to worried about T, posted by sunnydays on September 8, 2006, at 22:32:26
Repeat after me:
Hi - my name is Daisy and I'm a Therapy-Worrier.I worry all the time that my therapist is sick of me. I worry that I'm too whiny, boring and predictible during sessions. I worry that I want to much of him, from him and from therapy. I worry about all of it. Mostly I worry he'll change his mind at any minute and not want to work with me anymore.
The more intense the relationship, the more worried we get, I think. It is so important to us and so unbalanced. But sometimes it feels really good. Maybe too good? And sets off another round of worry.All I know is that the relationship is healing. As much as it hurts sometimes, I am getting better. I should book mark this and read my own words when I get freaked out. But you certainly aren't alone. I wish I could help more.
Posted by muffled on September 9, 2006, at 1:12:49
In reply to worried about T, posted by sunnydays on September 8, 2006, at 22:32:26
My T and I were talking today and I asked him at one point if he was sick of me. He said no, and we were talking some more about different things. And then I said, are you sure you're not sick of me? And he said yes, and asked me why I wanted to know, was I picking up on something or did he say something, and I said no, but then he asked if I was sure.
***sorry, I know it hurts, beleive me, but I laughed as I read this post cuz I just did the same thing w/my T a few days ago. My exact words. Are you sick of me. LOL. Sorry I laugh, but it just feels so good to not be alone in this.I think I even posted on it up above here somewhere.
And he had suggested a group earlier, and I said I was worried that that meant he was sick of me, and he said it absolutely didn't, that he expected to keep seeing me, that he appreciated me and wasn't at all sick of me and that he wouldn't abandon me.
***Again exactly the same with me. Awhile back my T wanted to get some additional help cuz she was struggling with me. Of course I instantly translated that into, 'she wants to dump me'. I even have a word for it. When I fax my T, I tell her I'm getting 'dumpmeitis' again.
The other day when I asked myT if she was sick of me, she said I was challenging. Which I immediately interpreted as 'I am a pain in the *ss'. Fortunately she caught on that I was bothered and explained what she meant. Took me 15 mins, to finally get what she meant. Sigh.And he said that it's just what happens when you 'develop feelings for someone' and aren't used to it.
***Yeah, the whole attachment thing is crazy for me. REALLY struggling w/that one.
>
> So that was really nice, and I really felt held then, almost, if that makes any sense. So why tonight am I convinced again that I'm too much and that he's sick of me? I sometimes email him, and I'm afraid to email him because I think he's sick of me. But I know he's not, because he was so nice to me today.***Yep. I got the same prob. But it seems you are able to talk to him about it which is huge. Maybe you could ask him, at what point would you feel bothered if I sent too many e-mails? How many is too many?
>
> Again, I hope I didn't upset anyone by posting that. I just am kind of torn up about it, and it's so confusing and it makes me sad almost that I can't make it stick in my head. Has anyone else had their T tell them they will be there for them and then managed to convince themselves otherwise? I don't know, I'm just confused.***My T has told me proly 100 times that she cares bout me, that I important to her, etc.
She proly told me a thousand times that she not gonna dump me.
And yet,
and yet,
sigh,
I STILL get dumpmeitis.......
Take care,
Muffled
>
> sunnydays
Posted by muffled on September 9, 2006, at 1:32:27
In reply to Re: worried about T » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on September 8, 2006, at 22:55:13
yeah I posted above on sept 6. "I said to my T"
;-)
Posted by sunnydays on September 9, 2006, at 18:56:50
In reply to Re: worried about T » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on September 8, 2006, at 22:55:13
When you said you worry that he'll change his mind at any minute and not want to work with you anymore, that's exactly what I worry about. It's almost impossible for his words to stick in my head when so many times I email him or have trouble talking or telling him something in a session I think, "This is it, this is the time when he'll change his mind and be sick of me." But he says that's not how therapy works, that he won't get sick of me. But then I worry he would, but just wouldn't tell me.
But I do think the relationship is healing. Sometimes when I am going to sleep I imagine my T sitting next to my bed and just being there keeping me safe, and it helps me sleep. And just knowing he is there if I fall apart has helped me take some big risks I don't know if I would have if he wasn't there. But I worry that I am way too demanding because I email him a lot.
Thanks for responding. I get so much from your posts when you post, even if it's not to me. You write wonderfully.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on September 9, 2006, at 18:59:18
In reply to Re: worried about T » sunnydays, posted by muffled on September 9, 2006, at 1:12:49
Hi muffled,
I'm glad you laughed. Laughter is a healthy thing, and if I can bring a little health to someone else, all the better. But I'm sorry you relate to the worrying. It is sooo hard to get attached. I like your word, 'dumpmeitis'. I did read what you wrote above. I'm glad someone else relates. I should ask him about the emails, I guess.
Thanks muffled.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on September 9, 2006, at 20:24:44
In reply to Re: worried about T » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on September 8, 2006, at 22:55:13
I was thinking about you just now. I'm so scared that my T is going to change his mind and that emailing him won't be ok anymore. And that he hates me. I want him to like me so much. What if he doesn't anymore? What if I really AM too much work? What if the place he works decides that I can't email him anymore (no indication that would happen, but what if)? I'm scared. I wish I could talk to him every day because then I might believe it. But now I have to go once a week (I went twice a week, but now I have to go once a week because of finances... kind of a long story). What if he gets mad at me?
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on September 9, 2006, at 21:44:34
In reply to Daisy?, posted by sunnydays on September 9, 2006, at 20:24:44
Ask yourself how much of this is based in any kind of reality. Has he ever told you about a client he dislikes or who got "fired" from therapy? Has he been "mad" at you yet? I say yet on purpose, because in a deep and close relationship, it is inevitable that some kind of dischord will occur. And then you talk about it. Maybe you write about it. But you figure out why it happened and how to either accept what has happened, or how to change it.
My therapist has admitted to getting frustrated with me. Usually this happens when he knows something is bugging me and I can't tell him about it. And I pull back and don't share my feelings with him. I come to therapy in knots and we don't get anywhere. He says the frustration is around not being able to help me or break through the anxiety. I get scared and upset when he gets frustrated. But everytime, EVERYTIME, we've worked through it. And I've been mad at him too. And we've worked through it.
And the other thing to ask yourself is this: How ethical is your therapist? If you believe that he is committed to his clients and a good therapist, than it is highly unlikely that he will terminate you suddenly. I won't say at all, because things do happen. But there are legal rules about abandoning clients and there are procedures to transfering them.
For me, I know that my abandonment fears come from two places. My dad left us when I was 12 and I didn't have much contact until I was 18. He left suddenly, I don't remember a good-bye. It is so complicated because he was abusing me, and yet I loved him so much. And I never had a chance to "fix" things with him. And my mom never had time for her kids - she loved us but she was so busy working and trying to hold it together as a single mom, she had her hands full. And since she didn't know what was happening to me, I never felt held in her thoughts - essentially she emotionally abandoned me too. So I'm waiting for my therapist to do it to me too. Old habits die hard, I guess.
Let me share one more thing with you: I've worked with my therapist for 2 1/2 years now. I love him in a million different ways and he knows this. I struggle with some of the ways this love feels. On Thursday we were redefining our relationship, for lots of reasons. I said, "I have to stop being in love with you...I feel like I'm pulling on you emotionally all the time." He said, "why? I'm not asking you to stop anything. We need to keep talking about it. But you know, it isn't hard for me -- having someone rant and rail at me, hate me all the time - that's hard. I can take that too, but trust me, your loving feelings are a gift, not a burden."
That makes me smile -- and for a little while I stop worrying. Try to just give yourself small moments to believe him. And then give yourself other small moments to believe in his ethics. And then a few more small moments sprinkled in to think about the times you've made him smile or touched him. Together they will help counter-act all the moments in which you worry.
I know how scary it is to be this attached to someone who is not bound to you in any concrete way. This is where trust comes in. Don't beat yourself up for not trusting, it is super hard when you are us.
Keep posting. I find it helps me when I feel super scared. I'm in class tomorrow but I'll check tomorrow night.
((((Sunnydays))))
Posted by sunnydays on September 10, 2006, at 19:14:57
In reply to Re: Daisy? » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on September 9, 2006, at 21:44:34
> Ask yourself how much of this is based in any kind of reality. Has he ever told you about a client he dislikes or who got "fired" from therapy?
*** No, but he did tell me once that he doesn't like everyone that comes to see him, he has to remind himself that they need help. But that he has never ever EVER felt that way working with me. I'm trying really hard to believe him.
Has he been "mad" at you yet? I say yet on purpose, because in a deep and close relationship, it is inevitable that some kind of dischord will occur. And then you talk about it. Maybe you write about it. But you figure out why it happened and how to either accept what has happened, or how to change it.
**** No, he hasn't. At this point I think I would completely fall apart and withdraw into myself if he got mad at me. I'm not sure I would be able to speak for many many sessions. But I don't think he's going to get mad at me soon. I hope.
>
> My therapist has admitted to getting frustrated with me. Usually this happens when he knows something is bugging me and I can't tell him about it. And I pull back and don't share my feelings with him. I come to therapy in knots and we don't get anywhere. He says the frustration is around not being able to help me or break through the anxiety. I get scared and upset when he gets frustrated. But everytime, EVERYTIME, we've worked through it. And I've been mad at him too. And we've worked through it.**** I would get scared too. And I'm sure we would talk about it too. We've talked about other things and gotten through them. I don't tell him a lot of things. When I get really quiet, or try to say something doesn't matter, sometimes he tries to tease me gently or something to make me smile. Sometimes that helps me talk. Sometimes it doesn't at all. But a lot of times it does. Or he just reminds me that it's safe for me to talk and that I don't have to talk now, but that's it's safe if I want to.
>
> And the other thing to ask yourself is this: How ethical is your therapist? If you believe that he is committed to his clients and a good therapist, than it is highly unlikely that he will terminate you suddenly. I won't say at all, because things do happen. But there are legal rules about abandoning clients and there are procedures to transfering them.**** Oh, he's incredibly, incredibly ethical. Absolutely. No doubt in my mind that he would terminate me the right way if he was going to. But I don't see that happening any time soon.
>
> For me, I know that my abandonment fears come from two places. My dad left us when I was 12 and I didn't have much contact until I was 18. He left suddenly, I don't remember a good-bye. It is so complicated because he was abusing me, and yet I loved him so much. And I never had a chance to "fix" things with him. And my mom never had time for her kids - she loved us but she was so busy working and trying to hold it together as a single mom, she had her hands full. And since she didn't know what was happening to me, I never felt held in her thoughts - essentially she emotionally abandoned me too. So I'm waiting for my therapist to do it to me too. Old habits die hard, I guess.*** Oh, I'm sorry. That's hard. A similar thing happened with my mom. I just never felt protected by her.
>
> Let me share one more thing with you: I've worked with my therapist for 2 1/2 years now. I love him in a million different ways and he knows this. I struggle with some of the ways this love feels. On Thursday we were redefining our relationship, for lots of reasons. I said, "I have to stop being in love with you...I feel like I'm pulling on you emotionally all the time." He said, "why? I'm not asking you to stop anything. We need to keep talking about it. But you know, it isn't hard for me -- having someone rant and rail at me, hate me all the time - that's hard. I can take that too, but trust me, your loving feelings are a gift, not a burden."
>*****That is so wonderful. Your therapist is great. I read that over and over because I could imagine my therapist saying something like that, although probably not quite so eloquently.
> That makes me smile -- and for a little while I stop worrying. Try to just give yourself small moments to believe him. And then give yourself other small moments to believe in his ethics. And then a few more small moments sprinkled in to think about the times you've made him smile or touched him. Together they will help counter-act all the moments in which you worry.***** Thanks. I'll try.
>
> I know how scary it is to be this attached to someone who is not bound to you in any concrete way. This is where trust comes in. Don't beat yourself up for not trusting, it is super hard when you are us.**** I try. That's what my T tells me. He says it makes sense that I wouldn't trust, and that it takes a lot of time. And that it's okay for it to take as long as it needs to.
>
> Keep posting. I find it helps me when I feel super scared. I'm in class tomorrow but I'll check tomorrow night.
>
> ((((Sunnydays))))**** Thanks Daisy. I emailed him, so that helped a little. Hopefully he responds tomorrow and isn't not at work for some reason. Thank you so much.
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on September 10, 2006, at 20:50:45
In reply to Re: Daisy?, posted by sunnydays on September 10, 2006, at 19:14:57
I'm glad you emailed him. I thought about you a lot today. We have been studying the analytic process all weekend and while it has primarily been about working with children, so many of the separation issues and anxieties sound like you and me. The last thing we did today was discuss termination with long term clients, again kids, but I still had a really hard time with it. The speaker was saying, "I was ready to let her go, she just wasn't quite there yet." I kept thinking "yikes! what if he is ready before me?"
Of course, my ability to act and feel like a child in therapy made me "brilliant" in spots over the weekend. I sort of laughed to myself. It wasn't any great insight, just my own feelings about the process.
How was today for you?
Posted by sunnydays on September 10, 2006, at 21:01:04
In reply to Re: Daisy? » sunnydays, posted by Daisym on September 10, 2006, at 20:50:45
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I feel so young and scared in therapy a lot of the time. But my therapist doesn't like to encourage it very much, I don't think, although he does acknowledge it and handles it very sensitively, because I'm only 20 so I'm still trying to figure out what the whole being an adult thing means. He's helping me a lot with seeing how adults relate to each other normally in the world. I get so attached, though, and he's old enough to be my father, so it's a weird dynamic. But he's so good in the way he handles everything, and he's so respectful and gentle of my feelings. It's really hard, though, because I get so scared he's going to leave.
Today was much easier for me. I'm in college and had a lot of work to do, so that kept me very occupied. Your class sounds interesting. I know what you're saying about being 'brilliant'. I come up with insights in classes that teachers think are wonderful, but a lot of times I'm just drawing from my own life.
Thanks for talking to me.sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on September 11, 2006, at 21:49:17
In reply to Re: Daisy?, posted by sunnydays on September 10, 2006, at 21:01:04
Well, he replied. Kind of more of a nonresponse in terms of allaying my fears, but weirdly enough, it helped. He said that he understood my worry but that it was natural that I would worry that and that I was doing a good job handling it by talking about it and writing about it. And that was enough to calm the fears a little. Although I still am afraid to email him. But I'm feeling a little bit calmer. Therapy sure is hard sometimes.
sunnydays
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