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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
I know we've talked about this before so I understand if this gets little to no response. But...
I made my Therapist cry on Monday. He said he felt very, very sad for me. I read him a journal page and cried the whole time I read it. Usually I can get through the readings, but not lately. I'm retelling the stories and the retelling is graphic and brutal and angry and outraged. I think the pain on the page infuses itself into the very air we breathe in his office sometimes. We both feel it and I can see it reflected all over his face. I told him the anger has its own set of tears and they are hot, deep tears...like my soul is crying.
Today I asked him about making him feel so sad and the tears. He said he was OK, that he can take care of himself. But yes, he felt sad, but that I wasn't hurting him. And he wasn't going to leave because of how he was feeling. He tried to explain that it was appropriate for him to feel sad, to look shocked and to be angry. He sometimes gets angry for me about what I tell him. Like today, he said he hates my dad for making me hate myself and he hates what he did to me. I asked him if he is really allowed to hate. He nodded and said it was just a feeling, just like love and beauty and sadness. To me, hate and anger are scary because they seem so much more solid than other emotions. They feel like weapons to hurt someone with.
I feel so selfish and relentless in my pursuit to feel better. I'm terrified that it is too much again and that I'm going to burn out my therapist, or use him all up or something. I'm terrified that I'm going to get into trouble and the punishment is no more therapy. I even offered today to cut back to twice per week so he didn't have to see me as much. He said he thought that was a bad idea, that if I needed him, I needed him and that was OK.
Is it? Is it really OK to make someone you care about so much, feel hurt and sadness? I felt so bad and yet I marched in there today and read another page. And he wants me to keep reading them. What if he gets tired of them? Or of me?
I'm very scared tonight.
Posted by Dinah on July 12, 2006, at 7:43:42
In reply to An Emotional Therapist, posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
He can take it. He wouldn't be acting the way he's acting if he couldn't handle it. He's shown that he can take care of himself in such a way that he can be there for you.
Is it possible there's a deeper fear involved? Manifested by being afraid that your therapist will reject you for sharing sad things? More a general fear that you're too much, or that sad things are too difficult for anyone to bear, or that it isn't acceptable to share bad things with someone else, that you need to hold them all yourself?
Posted by fallsfall on July 12, 2006, at 8:37:38
In reply to An Emotional Therapist, posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
>I feel so selfish and relentless in my pursuit to feel better. I'm terrified that it is too much again and that I'm going to burn out my therapist, or use him all up or something.
*** He will take care of himself. He has asked you to read the pages. He is consciously willing to do this with you.
>I'm terrified that I'm going to get into trouble and the punishment is no more therapy.
*** Who are you going to be in trouble with? You have talked clearly enough with your therapist that he knows what is coming. Why would you be in trouble with him for doing what he has asked you to do? Who else would you be in trouble with? Your dad? That is a very old fear - and one that was legitimate. But what would it mean now to be in trouble with your dad? Your father doesn't have power over your therapy.
>I even offered today to cut back to twice per week so he didn't have to see me as much. He said he thought that was a bad idea, that if I needed him, I needed him and that was OK.
*** He is telling you in so many ways that he is OK with what you are doing in therapy. Try to believe him.
>Is it? Is it really OK to make someone you care about so much, feel hurt and sadness? I felt so bad and yet I marched in there today and read another page. And he wants me to keep reading them. What if he gets tired of them? Or of me?
*** I think that you still blame yourself for what happened years ago. You are not to blame, Daisy. You have done nothing wrong.
*** He is joining you in your place of pain, so that you won't be alone there. He is choosing to do this. He is very skilled, and he will take care of himself.
*** And how could anyone get tired of you?
>I'm very scared tonight.
*** (((((...Daisy)))))...
Let's sit on your couch and I'll brush your hair. And hold you for as long as you want.
Love,
Falls
Posted by sunnydays on July 12, 2006, at 9:09:04
In reply to An Emotional Therapist, posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
Oh, this sounds like a lot of the same fears I have, and it is so scary. And I have a slight quibble with your wording - you didn't "make" your therapist cry, he cried because it was appropriate and because he was sad. You can't control his feelings. But I completely understand the fear that he will get fed up and leave. I have asked "Are you going to leave?" so many times, and my T always responds "I'm going to be here. You're welcome here however you feel." Trust that your T will be there too. It doesn't sound like he has any intention of leaving.
As for the anger - yes, for me that is one of the scariest emotions in the world. I have just very recently started expressing it, but every time I do I have to qualify it and try to explain it away. But my T keeps reminding me it's a feeling like any other feeling. And your T can feel angry at your dad, too. Even though anger is scary, your T won't be scary and hurt you with his anger. And there's no way he could hurt your dad with it.
Daisym, please keep posting. It sounds like what you're doing is so similar to what I'm doing. And it's not fair that we have to do it. But you are doing really well. Try to believe that you're therapist thinks so as well.
sunnydays
Posted by All Done on July 12, 2006, at 11:49:00
In reply to An Emotional Therapist, posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
(((Daisy))),
I'm sorry you had a difficult session yesterday. It sounds like your T was great, though. I wouldn't worry about him crying. My T once said, sort of matter of factly, that he noticed neither one of us had ever really cried during one of my sessions. That kind of implies that he would, if he needed to, I think. They are sympathetic, empathetic, kind, caring, senstive...I could go on and on. That's why they are therapists in the first place and that's why we love them as our therapists so much.
Don't worry. (I know, lame coming from me.) I imagine if anything ever got to be "too much" for your T (which I doubt), the two of you would work through that and you and your therapy would be better for it. The two of you are a good fit.
Lots of love,
Laurie
Posted by caraher on July 12, 2006, at 12:22:39
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » Daisym, posted by All Done on July 12, 2006, at 11:49:00
It's OK. I've brought tears to my T's eyes and she takes a pretty "businesslike" approach to things. They are people too, after all.
Posted by annierose on July 12, 2006, at 19:57:28
In reply to An Emotional Therapist, posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
((((((Dasiy)))))))
How are you doing today?
I think it's so hard to untangle our emotional lives from our cognitive mind. Your head knows that it is safe to share these secrets with your T. But your inner dialogue that has been playing in your head for years screams, "Don't trust grown-ups".
I'm thinking not only of your father, but your mother too. "Don't tell her" was what your father implied, "You'll get in trouble." As an adult we can see how twisted his thinking was on this matter. He was 100% to blame. You DID NOTHING WRONG! You as an adult can begin to see how it wasn't you, but that record has been playing for so long it is hard to change the tune.
Maybe sharing all these stories with your T is triggering the little girl in you that wanted to share with her mother, afraid of her reaction, what is she going to do with this information --- believe you or believe "him". Who is she going to protect? Who will she choose?
Your T chooses YOU! He wants to hear what happened to you. He wants to soothe your pain. He wants you to unburden your heart to him. What a gift he is receiving from you, your complete love and trust in him.
I hear in your voice a stronger Daisy. You may not hear it yet, but you are. I hear it all the way over here and you are ready to share these stories with him now. And he is ready to listen.
That is therapy at its best. I'm glad he is in your life. I love him for being there for you.
Posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:41:08
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » Daisym, posted by Dinah on July 12, 2006, at 7:43:42
>>>>>Is it possible there's a deeper fear involved? Manifested by being afraid that your therapist will reject you for sharing sad things? More a general fear that you're too much, or that sad things are too difficult for anyone to bear, or that it isn't acceptable to share bad things with someone else, that you need to hold them all yourself?
<<<<<<YES!! YES!! AND YES!!!After all this time, you'd think I'd be convinced he isn't going to kick me out or leave me. But it is a fear that grips me and won't listen to reason at all. And I grew up with the cardinal rule of not making someone else uncomfortable, if you can help it at all. Good girls are polite and defer their needs. When I broke my arm when I was seven, my parents were in the backyard. I'd fallen off my bike. I sat in the family room for 2 hours waiting for them to come inside because I didn't want to interrupt or bother them. I just held my arm on my other arm and didn't complain or cry.
How does one get over this particular fear? Especially when it is tied to someone who doesn't need you at all, so what binds them to you? There are lots of clients, so I'm easily replaced. This scares me to death.
I've been thinking about his age and trying to figure out when he might retire. So how many years do I have left?
:(
Posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:46:02
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist, posted by fallsfall on July 12, 2006, at 8:37:38
>>>>He is joining you in your place of pain, so that you won't be alone there. He is choosing to do this. He is very skilled, and he will take care of himself.
<<<<<This is the hard part for me, Falls. I know I'm a hard client. I'm demanding and needy and negative and weepy. The most I can say for myself is that I'm honest in the telling, I don't hold much back, and I pay my bills on time. So knowing I'm hard makes me wonder why he would keep me and subject himself to this, when there have to be easier people to work with.And I still worry all the time that I'm not doing therapy right. I know he is skilled, but I'm not. I think I might ask how he takes care of himself because I find myself worrying a lot about it.
*** And how could anyone get tired of you?
>>>>I'M tired of me. How could he not be?
Posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:50:42
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » Daisym, posted by sunnydays on July 12, 2006, at 9:09:04
Do you talk to your therapist about the therapy you are doing? Sort of like processing the process? Are you telling your stories in detail? Does the telling make you more afraid that your therapist will leave? Or do you feel more connected to her?
So many questions...sorry.
Anger is very scary. But it is here. It isn't masking sadness or hurt. It is sitting side-by-side with them. I feel the power of anger and I think that can be a good thing. I just have to learn how to control this powerful thing and not have it control me. It terrifies me. And if you knew me, you'd never know the rage I feel inside. I'm such an even person, perhaps not quite calm, but not too volatile either. So it shocks me to want to scream out loud.
*sigh* I hope you find a short cut through all of this. And then share it with me.
Posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:56:11
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » Daisym, posted by All Done on July 12, 2006, at 11:49:00
Laurie,
You sound like him. "We'll work through it, no matter what happens. We've done it before."
I'm trying to trust that. I trust him, I don't trust me. And I don't trust the fates. I've started doing this odd thing -- when I read the papers or listen to the news about car crashes, I worry it was him. I feel like I don't know how to keep him safe. I know this is about having the things I love taken away from me. It still makes the time between sessions sort of torturous.
You'd think I'd have learned a long time ago, not to need a single thing so much. I'm a slow learner. :(
Posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 13:00:34
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist, posted by caraher on July 12, 2006, at 12:22:39
I want him to be superman.
I hope you didn't get the impression that I thought he was weak or inappropriate for having those tears. I just desperately don't want to be the one who makes him feel bad.
He said to me yesterday that I touched him. And everyone wants to be touched. He thinks it is a gift to be touched, and a priviledge. It was the exact right thing to say to me.
And then of course I had to say something sarcastic, like, "I thought you had rules about touching..."
Posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 13:17:52
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » Daisym, posted by annierose on July 12, 2006, at 19:57:28
>>>How are you doing today?
<<<<<I guess today was yesterday but either way, I'm sort of OK. I'm writing this morning, which usually signals anxiety. I had group last night which was a hard one.>>>>>I think it's so hard to untangle our emotional lives from our cognitive mind. Your head knows that it is safe to share these secrets with your T. But your inner dialogue that has been playing in your head for years screams, "Don't trust grown-ups".
<<<<<<Grown-ups includes me. My younger self is screaming that I need to shut up before we all get into trouble.>>>>>>>>I'm thinking not only of your father, but your mother too. "Don't tell her" was what your father implied, "You'll get in trouble." As an adult we can see how twisted his thinking was on this matter. He was 100% to blame. You DID NOTHING WRONG! You as an adult can begin to see how it wasn't you, but that record has been playing for so long it is hard to change the tune.
<<<<<You are absolutely right here. But while I KNOW I wasn't to blame, I don't FEEL like I wasn't. And I don't know how to change that. And the mom stuff is the hardest. I'm upset with her for not saving me even as I protected her from knowing. Moms are supposed to read minds. I'm still protecting her from knowing. It is all so complicated.>>>>>>>Maybe sharing all these stories with your T is triggering the little girl in you that wanted to share with her mother, afraid of her reaction, what is she going to do with this information --- believe you or believe "him". Who is she going to protect? Who will she choose?
<<<<<<I didn't think I was still worried that "no one" will believe me but yesterday I was in tears talking with him about "telling" during group. I said, among other things, "what if they don't believe me? What if they think it wasn't that bad?" He just gently said, "how could they think that? It was bad and they will believe you." I asked him if he believes me and he said, "of course. Yes." He didn't act like it was a stupid question, even though I thought it was a stupid question. Old, deep fears coming up here. I thought I needed to be perfect for my mom to love me. Admitting this stuff makes me so much less than perfect.>>>>>Your T chooses YOU! He wants to hear what happened to you. He wants to soothe your pain. He wants you to unburden your heart to him. What a gift he is receiving from you, your complete love and trust in him.
<<<<The thing is, he didn't choose me. He took me on as a client without knowing what he was getting into. I never had any intention of telling any of this. And then I just needed to. But I do love and trust him. And I know he wants to help me. He says with lots of compassion that he knows we need to do this work no matter how painful. He is encouraging more balance right now though, especially on weekends. I figure it must be bad if he is encouraging me to put it away and contain it for awhile.>>>>I hear in your voice a stronger Daisy. You may not hear it yet, but you are. I hear it all the way over here and you are ready to share these stories with him now. And he is ready to listen.
<<<<<<I feel stronger and yet very fragile. Like a spider's web - strong enough to hold it all together and yet easily ripped apart with the right weapon or by the right person. I'm calling this sharing "round 2" because it is a repeat and yet different. I hope he can keep listening. I hope you can too.>>>>>That is therapy at its best. I'm glad he is in your life. I love him for being there for you.
<<<<<<I told him you said this. He smiled. He said he is glad to hear I'm back on the board and interacting. He thinks the support is good for me and he is always amazed at everyone's insight. Then he teased me and asked me how it felt to hear that someone else loves him...*sigh* such a smarta**!I still think we need a babble picnic that includes us on one side and our therapists on the other. Can you imagine what they would say to each other?
Posted by sunnydays on July 13, 2006, at 15:30:25
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » sunnydays, posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:50:42
Yes, I talk to my therapist some about the process of therapy. Not too much, though, because I seem to have this defense mechanism that makes me want to avoid talking about therapy like the plague. It's getting better, though. We talk about how a lot of the things I feel are just part of the healing process, and how the scar tissue just has to keep getting scraped away.
I don't really tell my stories in much detail at all. I tend to be very very quiet in therapy, and it's just been recently since I made a major change in my life that I have been feeling safe enough in my life outside of therapy to talk in therapy. I am just beginning to tell my stories for the first time, so a lot of the time I don't go into too much detail. But some we have revisited, and more detail comes out each time I tell it.
It depends on the day how telling makes me feel. I usually feel more connected to him in the session, but later that night I get incredibly scared that I've ruined everything, that he's tired of seeing me, that it's too much, and that he won't want to see me anymore. My therapist tells me that's the little girl part of me reacting. We're trying to work on me reacting more like an adult (I'm only 20, so I think it's good to try to learn how adults feel at this point). Usually I feel more connected in the session, though, because he reacts so well, and is so gentle with my feelings that I just feel heard. It's only after that I get so scared. I can't tell you the number of nights that I've been on the verge of tears because I was afraid he would leave.
If I find a short cut, I'll share it. Not sure I will though. :)
Posted by sunnydays on July 13, 2006, at 15:38:42
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » All Done, posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:56:11
> And I don't trust the fates. I've started doing this odd thing -- when I read the papers or listen to the news about car crashes, I worry it was him. I feel like I don't know how to keep him safe. I know this is about having the things I love taken away from me.
Oh my God! I thought I was the only one who worried about that! I cannot watch the news, even the teasers they show bother me, because they hardly ever say the names of the victims, and I always worry it was him. It's interesting that you think it's about having the things you love taken away from you. I never really thought about what it is for me. I think it's all tied up with the fear that he will leave. Anyway, just wanted you to know you're not the only one that worries about that.
Posted by annierose on July 13, 2006, at 21:06:58
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » Dinah, posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:41:08
>>>I've been thinking about his age and trying to figure out when he might retire. So how many years do I have left? <<<
Ask. I did, well, I didn't ask how old she was, I kindof know based on our history she is probably 5 years older than me. But I did ask her when I felt I was getting in over my head (so fairly soon into the process)
"How can I be sure you'll be still here for me?"
T: I'm not going any where
me: You can move or retire or ...
T: I'm not planning to do any of those things anytime soon. I'm here.
Posted by annierose on July 13, 2006, at 21:11:26
In reply to Re: An Emotional Therapist » fallsfall, posted by daisym on July 13, 2006, at 12:46:02
>>>and I pay my bills on time. So knowing I'm hard makes me wonder why he would keep me and subject himself to this, when there have to be easier people to work with. <<<
Grin. I pay my bills on time too hoping that puts a "+" mark in my good client column.
He wants to keep you for a client because
1. He cares about you.
2. He wants to help you.
3. It's rewarding to work with you.
4. You may think you're difficult, he may think quite differently.5. He loves working with a client who is so motivated to improve her life and challenges him --- gets his brain working!
Posted by Declan on July 18, 2006, at 13:11:53
In reply to An Emotional Therapist, posted by Daisym on July 12, 2006, at 1:46:23
My therapist would cry sometimes. Which is not surprising....you tell the sad story, and then there's an emotional response to it.
You feel you have damaged him. I wouldn't know of course, but any therapist worth his or her salt expects lots of enotional pain. The tears are no sign of damge in themselves.
This is the end of the thread.
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