![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
My husband and I had dinner with my mother tonight. I just want to tell you all about two parts to it:
During dinner, Mother was talking about a book she just read, "Team of Rivals," and about Lincoln and the Civil War. (The AMERICAN Civil War, by the way, since my husband ain't from these parts. His country didn't have no Civil War.) And EVERY chance she got, it seemed, she asked me questions to prove that I didn't know the answers. "Do you know about Blair House?" "You know who his Secretary of State was?" "Seward's Folly, you know what that is, don't you?"
Guess what? The answer to all of those is the same -- "No." In fact, I'll be the first to admit that I'm pretty profoundly ignorant of American history in general. And it's still pretty painful when my mother just has to make sure I remember just how ignorant I am.
The other thing she did was criticise my top. It's a mohair sweater I made last month. I made it quickly, because I wanted something new to wear to meet Dr Bob and Daisy, although I ended up wearing something else that night. It's meant to be like a little mohair t-shirt, and I am pretty well satisfied with it. Or, at least, I was. I came back to the table after using the rest room, and Mother's first comment was, "You know that top could probably be a bit longer."
Now, I know there's all sorts of [expletive deleted] tied up in this. And I also know that Mother gets a bit tense in restaurants, and the baby right behind her might have been an issue, too. And I know that Mom has some envy that I can knit a little top for myself, without going nutty about patterns. (I don't use patterns to knit, mostly, I just do it.) And I even know that Mom was a little upset about the new TV we just got -- our old one 'sploded a couple of weeks ago -- because she disapproves of spending so much money. (So do I, rather, but that's another story. And this does have a great picture.)
But at the end of the evening, I could certainly recognize where a lot of my own self-criticism comes from. And where a lot of my self-doubt starts, as well.
And I still want Mommy to love me, and to make Mommy be proud of me. What's up with that, huh?
Posted by ClearSkies on March 27, 2006, at 7:03:37
In reply to Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
>
> And I still want Mommy to love me, and to make Mommy be proud of me. What's up with that, huh?*sigh* Me too. Our moms should get together. Your mom could make comments, and my mom will sit and smile and not take in a single word that's said. My mom doesn't exactly, er, engage herself. More like she's presently absent. It hurts as much as if she'd uttered critical words.
I hope that you were able to sit and observe what was going on (it sounds like it - good for you!) without taking it on.
ClearSkies
Posted by milly on March 27, 2006, at 8:32:46
In reply to Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
It doesn't seem to matter how old we get parental critisism still hits home.
It's when you start seeing it for what it is that we regain some of the power and it sounds like you know your not ignorant (you are always very wise here)who gives a sh*t about the American civil war anyway!
I bet you looked fantastic in your kniting, what an acheivement and without a pattern well done
I have done so many things to try and 'please' my father and make him proud of me (moved house, changed jobs, bought stuff, not bought stuff)but i am slowly coming to see his critisism for what it is.
milly
Posted by B2chica on March 27, 2006, at 9:56:28
In reply to Re: Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism » Racer, posted by ClearSkies on March 27, 2006, at 7:03:37
can my 'mother' join? she'll let your mothers know what they're doing all wrong, then come and let me know what i'm doing wrong and go off in her world where everythings great.
> >
> > And I still want Mommy to love me, and to make Mommy be proud of me. What's up with that, huh?
>
> *sigh* Me too. Our moms should get together. Your mom could make comments, and my mom will sit and smile and not take in a single word that's said. My mom doesn't exactly, er, engage herself. More like she's presently absent. It hurts as much as if she'd uttered critical words.
>
> I hope that you were able to sit and observe what was going on (it sounds like it - good for you!) without taking it on.
>
> ClearSkies
>
>
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2006, at 10:08:28
In reply to Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
Racer, this may seem a bit sacriligious, almost, but can you make a game out of it?
I started finding (most of) my parents' behavior funny instead of hurtful when I started making a game of guessing how many times they'd do any given thing in an evening, or how far they'd go. Then when anything happened, I'd turn to my husband and grin, and we'd have the hardest time not bursting into laughter.
Admittedly it worked the best in places like restaurants or in non-intense periods at home. There were a lot of times when I had to draw lines instead, and tell my dad that if he insulted my son in front of him, or told my mother he wanted to kill her too many times, or tell my brother he was worthless in too much detail, or curse at me too much, I was going to walk away.
But sometimes it worked well with him, and it almost always works well with my mother.
I had a bet she'd go through everything Daddy left her and be dead broke in a year, and end up with huge tax problems. From all I can determine (and all the info isn't in so I could be wrong), she only outlasted my prediction by two or three months and is now living off the insurance proceeds from the flood so she won't be able to fix the house. It doesn't stop the practical problems of course, but instead of just being upset, I also had the satisfaction of having been right.
Posted by pegasus on March 27, 2006, at 10:45:05
In reply to Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
It's so hard when things like that can still get us, even after we're grown up and trying to recover.
Obviously, your mom has some reason that she wants to be able to feel smarter than you. I mean, really! The civil war? That's almost comical, if it wasn't also so hurtful. And criticizing your top that you knit yourself? Ridiculous, not to mention quite rude. How dare she say anything negative at all about it! She probably had to really search around to come up with something negative to say, too. It is probably just beautiful.
I wish I could tell you the secret to letting that stuff roll off you, and not needing mommy's approval. If someone else tells you, will you share it with me?
peg
Posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 12:41:19
In reply to Re: Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism » Racer, posted by Dinah on March 27, 2006, at 10:08:28
> Racer, this may seem a bit sacriligious, almost, but can you make a game out of it?
>
>
Not sacreligious at all, to me -- in fact, sounds like a good idea.The only problem I have with it, actually, is that I have internalized all this criticism so well, that I do feel ashamed of my ignorance as soon as it comes up. A number of years ago, for Christmas, Mother gave me a two volume set of Plutarch's "Lives of the Noble Romans." I got the message: "This is to dispel the gloom of ignorance in your mind..." If I had said that, she would have denied it, saying something like, "No, it's not to point out your ignorance -- it's just that everyone should have read these." And the difference is?
Last night my husband said he didn't think there was any of this subtext with Mom, though. He said he thought she was just asking those questions to show what she'd learned. Maybe. I recognize that I'm making up dialog about the "Plutarch's Lives" incident, even though I strongly believe that it's pretty accurate. But maybe I'm wrong, and the criticism is only coming from inside me? (Except for the knitting comment. And, despite thinking that the top was fine, now I'm wondering if she's right, so maybe that wasn't even meant as criticism?)
I don't know.
> Admittedly it worked the best in places like restaurants or in non-intense periods at home. There were a lot of times when I had to draw lines instead, and tell my dad that if he insulted my son in front of him, or told my mother he wanted to kill her too many times, or tell my brother he was worthless in too much detail, or curse at me too much, I was going to walk away.
>
>
Good for you, for protecting your son. Proof you're a good mother to him.And I think my mother would be shocked to hear that I think she's terribly critical of me. I truly believe that she isn't aware of it. Based on her reaction when I've pointed this sort of thing out to her after she's applied it to other people, she's pretty oblivious, she really seems to think she's invisible. I doubt she realizes that anyone can hear what she says to them. Again -- it's different when it's her own daughter, because I'm primed to take in every syllable.
My T and I talked about dragging Mom in to a session or two. T doesn't think I'm quite there yet, which is probably pretty accurate, but it's in the future, I hope. {sigh} T also tells me, often, that I do a lot for Mom, and don't get credit for it. So how come I feel guilty that I don't do enough?
I know the answer to that, of course. It's because I'm nuts. My mother made me crazy. She's very generous, though, and I"m sure if you asked nicely, she'd make you crazy too...
Posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 12:52:27
In reply to Re: Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by B2chica on March 27, 2006, at 9:56:28
> can my 'mother' join? she'll let your mothers know what they're doing all wrong, then come and let me know what i'm doing wrong and go off in her world where everythings great.
>
> > >
> > > And I still want Mommy to love me, and to make Mommy be proud of me. What's up with that, huh?
> >
> > *sigh* Me too. Our moms should get together. Your mom could make comments, and my mom will sit and smile and not take in a single word that's said. My mom doesn't exactly, er, engage herself. More like she's presently absent. It hurts as much as if she'd uttered critical words.
> >
> > I hope that you were able to sit and observe what was going on (it sounds like it - good for you!) without taking it on.
> >
> > ClearSkies
> >
> >
>
>How come all our mothers know how to devastate us so well? There must be a Mom School where they learn to mortify their daughters...
'Course, to bring it all full circle, Mother has a n Erika Oller card framed on her kitchen wall, "She came. She criticised. She left." (Here's a resin figurine of it -- I couldn't find it on paper: http://www.beladagio.com/catalog/_she_came___she_criticized___she_left__figurine_2881323.htm ) Every time I look at it, Mother says, "That's there in honor of my mother -- because that's what she did."
Oh, well. Guess it's a good thing, really. Gives me something to talk about in therapy...
Posted by B2chica on March 27, 2006, at 13:32:33
In reply to Did they learn it in 'Mom School'?, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 12:52:27
must have been. what s@cks is that i'm stronger now and she acts like we had the perfect mother daughter relationship...she's in her own freaking universe. i wish she would act to me now how she did when i was growing up. maybe that's why she doesn't. maybe she knows i'll kick her @ss.
b2c.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 27, 2006, at 14:28:39
In reply to Did they learn it in 'Mom School'?, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 12:52:27
"She came. She criticised. She left."
Now, *that* is funny.
Bosses never see themselves in Dilbert, either.
If she starts talking about subjects you don't know of, you could just start talking about programming or math or something she doesn't know about.
Around hubby's mom, we talk geophysics. We don't have to get too deep into it before she's lost - and she thinks we're *so* smart...
Posted by fairywings on March 27, 2006, at 20:03:51
In reply to Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
In my head the criticism didn't die with my parents. Oh, if only it would. I did feel like a huge weight was lifted off of me after a had a brief period of grieving....I know that probably sounds mean, but I was always afraid of what was coming next from my parents. I still think there's a lot of grief in there, but I can't get to it bec. I"m still so hurt at how hateful they were. I supposed they were both so unhappy that they had to take it out somewhere.
As for the book, and supposed lack of knowledge...how about, "I always found history so boring, but, I did read this great book on mother daughter relationships, and it made me really sad for what we never had." The sweater comment was so hurtful and rude. I'm so impressed that you can do that - esp. w/o a pattern. If I had the guts with my mom I'd have said, "It was knitted by someone who was supposed to be very special to you." But like someone said, those types of comments usually go in one ear and out the other. Sad the legacy parents leave sometimes.
I still want a mom to love me and be close to me, but I don't think I ever wanted that from her. I wanted her to like me and be nice to me, but she was never the "type" to be maternal and loving. I think I want a daddy more though.
Sorry it went so badly. How often do you have to endure that kind of torture? I like Dinah's idea of finding humor in it. I wish I'd been that creative.
fw
Posted by Daisym on March 28, 2006, at 0:16:27
In reply to Yep, I've internalized my mother's criticism, posted by Racer on March 27, 2006, at 1:33:40
Hmmm...I think I might agree with your hubby a little. Sounds like mom needs to prove how smart she is...not how smart you aren't. Not that completely ignoring you and what you might need is OK. But she sounds like someone showing off or trying to make conversation when they are nervous.
My mother sometimes criticizes me about how my brothers and sister are acting. I always think, "wait, hold on here. YOU raised them, so why is their behavior MY fault?"
Mothers...
And you want to take her to therapy with you? No way, nope, nutuh, no, no no...
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.