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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Racer on March 20, 2006, at 0:49:33
I just realized, part of what scares me so much about losing this anorexic identity, is that it presents me to the world as Strong, Self Confident, In Control, Capable, Productive, Logical, and all sorts of things like that that I want to be. I'm sure to some extent I actually am some of those things, too, but it doesn't feel that way. It feels as though the anorexia is how I mask the True Racer.
The True Racer has a dumpy body, is clumsy, graceless, lumpy, and just doesn't get it. Socially awkward, unsure of herself, rather pathetic.
I want to be the tall, thin woman who walks with confidence and Gets Things Done. The one who can focus to the smallest details. (Although maybe without that obsessiveness that keeps me from seeing the big picture.) I want to feel attractive, instead of lumpy and ashamed. I want that energy back, too.
{sigh}
And you know what else? I'm feeling pretty depressed again. {sigh} Guess Adderall isn't a good choice for me...
Posted by special_k on March 20, 2006, at 1:15:30
In reply to Back to that identity thing again..., posted by Racer on March 20, 2006, at 0:49:33
> I just realized, part of what scares me so much about losing this anorexic identity, is that it presents me to the world as Strong, Self Confident, In Control, Capable, Productive, Logical, and all sorts of things like that that I want to be.
I understand. At least... I think I understand. Though I will say... That I wouldn't have thought that someone in the middle of a bout of anorexia would exemplify those characteristics (excuse me for saying so) so much as... Those being characteristics that you can exemplify all the much more in your recovery.
> I'm sure to some extent I actually am some of those things, too...
Yeah. You know... The fact that those things are important to you... The fact that you work to cultivate those things says a lot about the person you want to be, the person you are working towards being, and the person you are. Because different characteristics are important to different people.
I don't think you have to give up on any of those things in your recovery... I think it is more about appreciating that you can better exemplify those things in your recovery.
> but it doesn't feel that way.
Yeah. I understand that one...
> It feels as though the anorexia is how I mask the True Racer. The True Racer has a dumpy body, is clumsy, graceless, lumpy, and just doesn't get it. Socially awkward, unsure of herself, rather pathetic.
:-( I think... That is what you are afraid of... Rather than what you are. I feel like that a lot too... Maybe... My alters are my mask for those kinds of feelings... Maybe... Parts of me exemplify those characteristics (not me dammit)... But other parts don't... Or something... I dunno.. It is probably what I'm most afraid of rather than what I am. :-(
> I want to be the tall, thin woman who walks with confidence and Gets Things Done. The one who can focus to the smallest details. (Although maybe without that obsessiveness that keeps me from seeing the big picture.) I want to feel attractive, instead of lumpy and ashamed. I want that energy back, too.Okay. I don't see anything wrong with wanting those things. But your height hasn't shrunk, right? And as for thin there is a difference between wiry and starving to death... And a difference between attention to detail and being obsessive.
I just mean that... Maybe it is more about seeing how you DO exemplify the things that are important to you - and seeing that you can better exemplify them in your recovery than you did before.
But that being said... Feeling... That can be hard. *Feeling* fat and clumsy and *being* fat and clumsy are probably two different things...
Posted by pegasus on March 20, 2006, at 9:02:55
In reply to Back to that identity thing again..., posted by Racer on March 20, 2006, at 0:49:33
Interesting. I just had this conversation with my T on Saturday. Of course, my coping is different than yours, but I was talking about all of the positive things that I think it brings me. The list was a lot like yours: makes me feel confident, strong, capable, like I can accomplish big things. And when I'm "in remission" I have this internal critic that tell me that my change in behavior just means that I'm too weak to do what needs to be done.
And then there's this thin little voice on top of it that says, no, it's ok to choose not to do that anymore. It's very faint and unconvincing.
My T says that the critic is part of a complex (she's Jungian), and the thin voice is my real self starting to grow. I'm not sure what to think of that. My real self sure sounds tentative, which is not what I'd like to think I am. She says it's so faint because I'm just learning to identify my real self, but it will grow stronger. I'm just now developing a sense of myself outside of my complex, which is what I've identified with for so long.
So far, I don't get it. But I thought I'd pass it along in case you do.
Peg
Posted by fairywings on March 20, 2006, at 10:25:35
In reply to Back to that identity thing again..., posted by Racer on March 20, 2006, at 0:49:33
Hi Racer,If your posts are any indication, you seem confident, capable, logical, and well spoken....not to mention kind. It's hard to stop the voices that tell us all the bad things we think, or fear, we are. Sorry you're feeling all of that right now.
As for the Adderall, I don't know what your dose is, and is it extended release or regular release? I found that cutting my dose in 1/2 worked when I thought it was causing depression - I went up too quickly. Worked like a charm when I halved it. Now I tweak the dose based on hormones and other things.
Hope you start feeling better.
fw
Posted by daisym on March 20, 2006, at 14:53:13
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » Racer, posted by fairywings on March 20, 2006, at 10:25:35
I think I'm struggling with "is it really so bad to 'act as if'?"
If we act as if we are confident, don't we become more so? And if we act as if we are happy, doesn't that attract happier people and events so that also becomes true? I'm so much less happy not knowing who I am really am than I was acting 'as if.'
So why did I crash in the first place? I haven't answered that yet. But I'm fearful of losing the the strong, good parts that go with the costume of capable and together. I think I like and need my emotional armor.
Posted by fairywings on March 21, 2006, at 15:13:29
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again..., posted by daisym on March 20, 2006, at 14:53:13
Daisy,
Are you saying you were acting "as if" you were confident and happy? And I'm not sure what you meant when you said, " I'm so much less happy not knowing who I am really am than I was acting 'as if."
My T keeps telling me that if I "act" a certain way - strong, confident, happy..., eventually it will become so, but I've tried that - for years, not short periods of time. Now things are coming back to haunt me. So is the solution to ignore those things and continue to "act" the way I don't think or feel? I don't know, it doesn't make me feel any more comfortable, and if I just need to act, and not solve, then what's the point of therapy anyway?
fw
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2006, at 18:13:31
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » daisym, posted by fairywings on March 21, 2006, at 15:13:29
My therapist never ever tells me that. He stresses that I need to fulfill my obligations, especially the ones to my family, whether I feel good or not. But he never tells me to fake it till I make it, or anything along those lines.
He knows I did that for close to eighteen or so years, and that it caused me long term harm even while it served me short term to function.
That being said, depending on a person's personal coping style, it might be a useful thing for some people to do. Maybe even many people.
But useful things for even many people can't be generalized to all people. It's up to each of us in the end, hopefully with the help of a flexible and intuitive therapist if needed, to work out what we individually need to bring balance to our lives.
Of course, while I've obviously given this an inordinate amount of thought, the conclusions are mine alone, and I don't expect that they will be a consensus opinion. :)
Posted by fairywings on March 21, 2006, at 19:02:55
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » fairywings, posted by Dinah on March 21, 2006, at 18:13:31
Hi Dinah,I sure don't feel like it's helpful to be told to fake it either, and I don't think it fixed anything to do it as many years as I did. To me, to be told that, feels like I have to deny how I really feel, and I need to just "get over it".
I think that's how my T coped, so it seems he thinks it will work for me. I don't know, maybe he knows something I don't about me, or about how I might cope with things more effectively. I'm pretty out of touch.
You're very insightful.
fw
Posted by Dinah on March 21, 2006, at 19:12:34
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » Dinah, posted by fairywings on March 21, 2006, at 19:02:55
Thank you.
It's something that I've wrestled with a lot, because short term it can be helpful.
Do you think your therapist gives this advice to everyone? If he does, then it doesn't necessarily say anything about you.
Posted by fairywings on March 21, 2006, at 19:28:37
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » fairywings, posted by Dinah on March 21, 2006, at 19:12:34
> It's something that I've wrestled with a lot, because short term it can be helpful.**Yes, I understand this.
>
> Do you think your therapist gives this advice to everyone? If he does, then it doesn't necessarily say anything about you.**No, I think it's bec. there's a great deal of similarity in our backgrounds. I think he wants me come as far as he has, despite the history. I truly appreciate that. I like him and respect him more than anyone I've seen, so I'll hang in there.
fw
Posted by Daisym on March 21, 2006, at 23:52:47
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » daisym, posted by fairywings on March 21, 2006, at 15:13:29
I think what i was trying to say was that I didn't know I was acting "as if." I was taught to make lemon aid from lemons. I just can't remember who taught me that.
In one of the first interviews with my therapist, I ran through my career that meandered with a number of "well, that didn't work because of X so I did Y". He commented that I was really good at making the best of things. I never even though of it that way. So the more I've looked at my life through a different lens, the less authentic I've felt. Now I want different things and still feel that they are unobtainable. So how is this better?
I'm not suggesting people pretend to be happy or fake their feelings. I just think I keep it together better when I forget that I'm only acting like I'm not longing to hide under the bed.
Posted by Dinah on March 22, 2006, at 9:24:45
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again..., posted by Daisym on March 21, 2006, at 23:52:47
That is quite true.
Posted by Racer on March 22, 2006, at 10:41:45
In reply to Re: Back to that identity thing again... » fairywings, posted by Dinah on March 21, 2006, at 18:13:31
See, I used to use that with my riding students. The first thing I taught beginners was, "The very first thing you need to know about a horse is: They're Big." They are. And that can be scary, if you're not used to it. But they're not machines, what you do, and your attitude, will communicate with them.
Some horses do take advantage of people's fear of their size. They'll be threatening if you're not doing things their way, which most beginners can't do. So, I would tell a lot of students, at first, "PRETEND you're not afraid when she does that, she's really only doing it to scare you, so if you don't react, she'll stop doing it." (Sadly, it is more a mare thing...) But I think I'm just suggesting acting as if, not trying to pretend to themselves that they're fine. If that makes sense...
I think that it's fine to say, "Fake it 'til you make it," as long as it's not what you're saying as a solution to the larger issue. In the case of horses, "FITYMI" won't cure the larger issue, which is that they're bigger than we are. But it is helpful in learning to accommodate that issue. (Am I making any sense at all? I don't think I'm functioning today, and I'm confusing myself right now.) And, in my case, with my own psychological issues, I do use "FITYMI" on some things.
I've used it on my family, including my mother. I may feel myself going back into my little psychological fetal position, but I do my best to get my shoulders back, and breathe deep, and say aloud whatever my limits are. I don't feel it, but I do say it, and then I get alone to collapse and hyperventilate, and eventually the whole process gets easier and easier.
THERE! That's the thing -- FITYMI isn't about emotional or psychological issues nearly so much as it is about behavior. So, saying, "You're not happy, but you could be if you'd just FITYMI" is absurd. Saying, though, that you can stop apologizing for everything you do by FITYMI is helpful. At the same time you work on the issues that lead to that apology habit, you can also be working on the behavior itself, by PRETENDING to have the right to walk on the sidewalk, or whatever.
OK. I knew there was a thought in there somewhere... I'm so very glad I could find it... Better clean my mind, huh? Maybe get my husband to vacuum in there... Then maybe I could find these things when I needed them. :-D
Posted by milly on March 22, 2006, at 12:44:10
In reply to The whole Fake it 'til you Make it thing..., posted by Racer on March 22, 2006, at 10:41:45
My first experience of T was with a woman who would encourage me to 'look' well (the whole world needn't know how low you are!!) even though I felt dreadful this was impossible and just left a huge sense of failure.
My present T is wanting me to be 'real' and honest and stop pretending and living up to others expectations, this has caused it's own problems as last weekend I decided to be real & honest and tell a few people a few home truths (it was a bit of a shock for some coming from the ministers wife!!!)
Posted by muffled on March 22, 2006, at 13:13:18
In reply to Re: The whole Fake it 'til you Make it thing..., posted by milly on March 22, 2006, at 12:44:10
Posted by Daisym on March 22, 2006, at 14:31:27
In reply to The whole Fake it 'til you Make it thing..., posted by Racer on March 22, 2006, at 10:41:45
I think you said what I meant much better than I did. It is knowing that you can control your behavior even if you can't control your mood. And that can help in so many ways.
And I think there is some truth in the world not needing to know you feel like dirt; on the other hand, it isn't my experience that people notice your bad day unless you show up naked, with wet hair, mismatched shoes and a box of the wrong flavor donuts.
sigh
This is the end of the thread.
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