![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 11:08:25
So I goto figger what goes on.
F*cking pissing myself off majorly. Haven't taken zoloft in a coupla days. Wonder if its that thats getting me all confused. I randomly punch doors and fences. Not too bad, just enough to feel that sharp intense pain a bit and that seems to help me focus or something. I dunno. Gonna have to sit down and have a real good think I guess. These little stops and starts of thinking don't work. Damn brain ain't worth sh*t I think sometimes. Purply hands are better than scars on top of scars. Least the purple goes away.
I fear I have offended the kid somehow. Mebbe the touch thing? I dunno. I think she let me touch her.
I think T2(toughie 2) been around alot more this week. Dunno why.
God its so FREAKING FRUSTRATING how I can't think very good, and ESPECIALLY how I can't remember stuff. I hope I don't have a tumor or something. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Mebbe I should go back on zoloft, I think it did seem to clear my mind a bit...
I ascared of going tomorrow to T appt. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll contemplate that.....
Dead brain.
OK. How bout why I keep punching things? Or wheres the kid? How come I so stuck? Where am I? I feel like I have gone away somewhere alot lately. Somebodys been running the show, mebbe even now, but its not really me. Only partly. Mebbe its T2 doing what T2 does. Taking care of business. But she so cold and unemotional and not very real somehow really. I wanna come back but we scared I think. Or I scared. Don't know wassup w/the kid.
How can I talk to my T if I dunno whats going on?
Lost....................
Muffled :-(
Posted by LegWarmers on February 13, 2006, at 11:14:48
In reply to OK I lost..........., posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 11:08:25
> So I goto figger what goes on.
> F*cking pissing myself off majorly. Haven't taken zoloft in a coupla days. Wonder if its that thats getting me all confused. I randomly punch doors and fences. Not too bad, just enough to feel that sharp intense pain a bit and that seems to help me focus or something. I dunno. Gonna have to sit down and have a real good think I guess. These little stops and starts of thinking don't work. Damn brain ain't worth sh*t I think sometimes. Purply hands are better than scars on top of scars. Least the purple goes away.
Muffled it sounds like you need the zoloft, stopping medications can make you feel really wobbly. Can you take it today?> I fear I have offended the kid somehow. Mebbe the touch thing? I dunno. I think she let me touch her.
> I think T2(toughie 2) been around alot more this week. Dunno why.
> God its so FREAKING FRUSTRATING how I can't think very good, and ESPECIALLY how I can't remember stuff. I hope I don't have a tumor or something. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Mebbe I should go back on zoloft, I think it did seem to clear my mind a bit...i think you should too
> I ascared of going tomorrow to T appt. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll contemplate that.....
> Dead brain.
> OK. How bout why I keep punching things?you are angry maybe? Or frustrated as to why you don't feel right. Im sorry that must be so confusing. I get angry sometimes, but it comes out with my words. Ive have found my words to be useful though, they may make a mess of things But then if I use them more they can help clear a lot up too. Can you tell your T all of this?
>>Or wheres the kid? How come I so stuck? Where am I? I feel like I have gone away somewhere alot lately. Somebodys been running the show, mebbe even now, but its not really me. Only partly. Mebbe its T2 doing what T2 does. Taking care of business. But she so cold and unemotional and not very real somehow really. I wanna come back but we scared I think. Or I scared. Don't know wassup w/the kid.
> How can I talk to my T if I dunno whats going on?You say exactly what you just said here. Can you print this out and show her? Sometimes just saying, i dont understnad why I feel like this can be helpful.
(((muffled)))
I hope you feel better soon
Posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 11:26:54
In reply to OK I lost..........., posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 11:08:25
>>Mebbe its T2 doing what T2 does. Taking care of business. But she so cold and unemotional and not very real somehow really.
Man, sure do understand that statement. my new T...it's like she's trying too hard. see seems cold and unemotional or emotional with puppet strings. like she's acting like she thinks i want. she not real. i don't like that she try's so hard cuz it comes through 10fold in feelings.
>>How can I talk to my T if I dunno whats going on?tell her exactly that...that you don't know what's going on, don't have to talk about specifics if they don't come to you. just let her know how confused and upset you are. i think little muff is starting to show some real anger now. let her.
(((hugs)))
b2c.
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 11:59:20
In reply to Re: OK I lost........... » muffled, posted by LegWarmers on February 13, 2006, at 11:14:48
>
> Muffled it sounds like you need the zoloft, stopping medications can make you feel really wobbly. Can you take it today?
**yeah, I'll take it tonite, I'm on a very low dose. Don't seem to take much for me with meds.> you are angry maybe? Or frustrated as to why you don't feel right. Im sorry that must be so confusing. I get angry sometimes, but it comes out with my words. Ive have found my words to be useful though, they may make a mess of things But then if I use them more they can help clear a lot up too. Can you tell your T all of this?
***Yeah, words. Words are no so good for rage.
> You say exactly what you just said here. Can you print this out and show her? Sometimes just saying, i dont understnad why I feel like this can be helpful.
***Thanks for hugs.
I don't want her to think I TOO crazy. She's real decent to me. I don't want to wreck things somehow. I don't think she's real big on having others inside. She never talks about my inside kid. Mind you, I don't bring her up much either.
Mebbe I'll give her my writings.
I'll fax them ahead so I can't get them back. If they in my pocket I never give them to her, i too chicken.
I'll tell her I scared too I guess. :-(
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Sorry to be so morose.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:05:41
In reply to Re: OK I lost..........., posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 11:26:54
> Man, sure do understand that statement. my new T...it's like she's trying too hard. see seems cold and unemotional or emotional with puppet strings. like she's acting like she thinks i want. she not real. i don't like that she try's so hard cuz it comes through 10fold in feelings.
**Your old T is gonna be a tough act to follow. At least you giving her a chance. You pretty decent.
My T is my only recent T. T2 is what I call my inside person who is the protector one of me. Clear as mud eh?
> >>How can I talk to my T if I dunno whats going on?
>
> tell her exactly that...that you don't know what's going on, don't have to talk about specifics if they don't come to you. just let her know how confused and upset you are. i think little muff is starting to show some real anger now. let her.***I am scared I guess.
I scared of anger.
Theres someone inside that screams.
Theres rage inside that has no words.
But I have no memories.
I have nothing except the unexplained rage.
And fear.
And confusion.
And so I lost.
I don't know what to do.
Thanks for hugs chica.
I feel alone.
Muffled
Posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 12:13:36
In reply to Re: OK I lost..........., posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:05:41
you have every right to be scared, it is scary to have such intense feelings and not know where they come from.
but we're all here for you.if you have rage inside, then the memories will follow. let out how you feel, write it out, type it out, yell it out, scream it out, just get it out.
i'm sorry it's so confusing...it really is.
but you're not lost to me...i know where muff is, i stand next to her especially little muff, cuz my little b2 and her need to feel angry and i think they maybe understand eachother.just hang on to what is real. your emotions are real, even if you have no pictures that are attached.
you no alone. i'm sorry you feel alone. i feel alone too. i think it's worse to feel alone when you have someone there than to feel alone when there is noone.
but do know that i am here.
lost and confused also. it s@cks, but there it is.
i feel like i'm on this tiny little withered leaf that tore from it's tree and winded into an ocean and is floating into the abyss.
i wave goodbye to what felt good. now i have to be alone again.sorry i talked about me.
this is about you. i'm sorry.
b2c.
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:20:36
In reply to Re: OK I lost..........., posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 12:13:36
OK , thats good you wrote cuz now I KNOW I not alone. I'm on that withered leaf too. Just look around that crunkled bit...HA!...its me!
And the leaf is falling down...
and at the bottom of the abyss..
Is chicas FAIRYLAND, and theres a forest too!
And its deep down in the abyss, so there's nothing bad down here. All is good. The rage got left up top. Here we can be happy and silly and noone will hurt us.
And we can be ok with each othwer cuz we both know we f*cked up inside but that its ok cuz we both know, so we not alone, and we can be in this good place awhile.
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:26:49
In reply to Re: OK I lost..........., posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:20:36
You should let Damos talk to you cuz he 'gets' us kids. And he's so nice, and he always takes care when i get upset.
I might get blocked cuz Dr. Bobs pic keeps showing and its making me real mad and I might have to go over to Admin and then toughie 2 is gonna give him heck cuz he won't take it away and she's not too good at talking nice.
But mebbe it won't happen.
But if I do, then we can still play in fairyland.
I can't talk, but I can read.
Mebbe it'll be ok.
See ya.
Posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 12:43:33
In reply to Hey little B2chica, posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:26:49
little b2 is very upset right now and won't come out. she's afraid to talk. she put tape all over her mouth and won't look at anyone. i'm scared cuz i'm afraid she'll come out like that soon.
i want to be strong. to show ex T that he did a good job and that i'm ok. and maybe i am, but she's not.
she's even more afraid now. she's hates new T. she wants to kick her. i don't let her. i won't even let her out anywhere near new T. she doesn't deserve to meet little b2.
maybe damos can though. maybe he/she can talk to her...if he/she wants to.she feels like a ball of fire inside my stomach and everytime i think of her i get worse, so i know it's her in there that's making all these waves of emotion go through me.
everytime someone mentions, memories, or when they were kids, or things like that i get Huge waves of anxiety and derealization. it's so hard!! and i don't even have anyone really to talk to about that..."STUPID LADY she/IT knows NOTHING!!!! I WON"T TALK to "HER"!!!
sorry.
i have to proctor a test this afternoon, maybe that will give me some time to write. maybe i can let little b2 write as well. if she'll even let me help her...which i doubt. she was buried pretty deep. i think she slipped out up there though.
thanks muff.
fairy place is just nonexistant for me right now. it's not real, no place safe for me is. i have no right to be free and safe.
no one helped me then, so why now.i'm alone yet again.i hate the ache."JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FOREVER!
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:56:57
In reply to Re: Hey little B2chica » muffled, posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 12:43:33
Little b2c needs you too. She gets real mad. and she won't listen to big b2c cuz she so, so mad. And she can't get to her fairyland place. Mebbe you can say nice Damos words to her. Mebbe she can hear them? Don't know.
Boy is she mad. I used to hate muffled too. But i don't anymore. She's ok. If stupid.
Wish, little b2c could play with me. She don't scare me. I don't think she's bad as long as she don't think that I am bad. Its ok if she's grumpy. I am learning not to hurt other people because they have feelings.
I'm growing.
Ha!
Hey little b2c, can you give your mad to someone else awhile? I don't know who has the mad in my person. I don't care, I don't want it. I want to play, I want to learn. I am learning lots, even from stupid muffled too. She is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO stupid sometimes.
I am going
Bye.
Bye Damos, I like you lots and lots and lots and lots and lots.
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 13:08:45
In reply to HEY DAMOS, posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:56:57
My kid has a good idea. Mebbe you could give the rage to someone else to hold. I dunno who has mine. Maybe toughie2?
Least t2 is older I think.
I don't know how to pass it on?
For some reason it seems like something that its possible to do? I dunno why I think that.
Just seems like alot for a wee thing.
But she tough all right.
And she survived.
And look at you B2! Your amazing! You done good. All of you.
I feel very physical in the rage, so mebbe working out in a physical non injurous way, is the way to let your little one express some stuff?
I'm goona get a 60 lb. heavy bag and some gloves and PUNCH it. Worth the money cuz then I don't hurt myself, but I can HIT and HIT and HIT.
Thats my theory anyways.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.Muffled
Posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 13:26:50
In reply to Hey B2, posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 13:08:45
She's going to keep the pain for two reasons...1 she deserves it (like a good little girl-TAKE IT)
and 2-no one else can handle it. i know how to contain it.. i used to have one other i called super-b#tch but i haven't seen her in a long time. she used to contain this and be agressive, at her job, in relationships and with family. she's been gone for almost a year. every once and a while i think i see her, then no, she's gone. she was my protector. i think my little one and her are pulling for attention and some how little b2's been winning, maybe cuz of T.
she wants to give it to T2 SOOOOOO bad, i don't mean pass along, i mean AT her. but i can't cuz i need to use T2. i want to look at my file again and copy some stuff down. and if let her get mad at T2 then T2 won't let me look into files.
i gotta be good to her so i can get what i want from her.i need to deal with things but i don't know how.
why do i even exist.
why is my responsibility to the world?
i owe them so much and give so little. i'm bad. i disrespect life. i think now that i came out to T1 that i have a right to think i'm ok. i'm not, i s@ck, stuipd, disgusting. there are so many out there that are killed...why not me? why don't i get murdered? i at fault for things, they say. i am. they that hurt me stupid and don't know better. i deserve to be punished for their not knowing. that's why big b2 needs to get smarter....keep getting smarter and smarter so she doens't make the same mistakes. cuz grownups are stupider than little girls and besides...i'm NOT LITTLE, i'm BIG...i had sex at 8 or 9 so i'm grown up. how old am i? am i 8 or 9? i think 9 no 8...i want to tell all now...i want to tell him, want to tell T2...why did he move...why couldn't god wait 2 more months before he moved my T. i guess others needed him more where he's at now. i hate him for leaving me. i love him for taking me in.i want a 60lb bag too, actually i have 160lb bag....me. i've gained 40 lbs on this stupid zyprexa that i can't wait to get off of. i'm fat and stupid. but manipulative mind. though i'd never do that here. i like all you so much. i say how it is here and you all still don't mind. so i don't haveta pretend.
thnx
Posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 13:27:33
In reply to Re: Hey B2, posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 13:26:50
Posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 13:31:20
In reply to Re: Hey B2, posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 13:26:50
"...i'm NOT LITTLE, i'm BIG...i had sex at 8 or 9 so i'm grown up. how old am i? am i 8 or 9? i think 9 no 8...i want to tell all now...i want to tell him"
how do i know what's real. how do i know i didn't make this up...my 'mother' always said i exaggerated stuff. when she hit me she said i wanted her to do it, that i made her do it. so maybe....i don't know.
little can't decide if she want's in or out.
i'm going a little nuts-o- think i'm gonna blank out a little now...need to be upto people in 1/2 hour the class.goog think i'm giving test and not taking it.
just couldn't do it.
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 13:39:04
In reply to Re: Hey little B2chica » muffled, posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 12:43:33
> little b2 is very upset right now and won't come out. she's afraid to talk. she put tape all over her mouth and won't look at anyone. i'm scared cuz i'm afraid she'll come out like that soon.
***I had a visual image of my kid a few days ago, she was upset too. Kinda hiding under something and wouldn't look at me But I THINK she let me touch her. I'm not sure. She never has before.
> i want to be strong. to show ex T that he did a good job and that i'm ok. and maybe i am, but she's not.
***I think its a big deal that your T has helped you lots, cuz now that your more together, you can help your kid. Just remember she IS a kid, and you have to deal with her on her level. She will probably not trust you for a long time. But she's just like a real life kid and like in real life, you gona have to be very calm and CONSISTANT with her. And kids are not stupid. They know when your patronizing them. And sometimes they get mad at the seemingly strangest things. But y'know, if you persevere, you and your kid will connect in a good way, and then thats SO COOL. Cuz you can help each other. Yeah, my kid helps me too. You can get there with her B2, its worth the effort. She needs you. She just a kid and she mad and confused and she gonna try and piss you off in every way she can think of. But your the big B2, and you need to be like a adult and take care of her. No matter what.
This all sounds so bossy. But anyways, thats how it was for me.
> she's even more afraid now. she's hates new T. she wants to kick her. i don't let her. i won't even let her out anywhere near new T. she doesn't deserve to meet little b2.***mebbe she doesn't need to. Mebbe you just work on big b2 and then big b2 can work with little b2?
> maybe damos can though. maybe he/she can talk to her...if he/she wants to.
***My kid adores Damos :-)
>
> she feels like a ball of fire inside my stomach and everytime i think of her i get worse, so i know it's her in there that's making all these waves of emotion go through me.***Yeah, waves, they do pass, and ebb and flow in intensity. Yeah, just keep talking nice to her, no matter how much she kicks and screams. If she's totally having a tantrum, you may just have to tell her you love her and walk away for a bit. Explain all to her.
>
> everytime someone mentions, memories, or when they were kids, or things like that i get Huge waves of anxiety and derealization. it's so hard!! and i don't even have anyone really to talk to about that..."STUPID LADY she/IT knows NOTHING!!!! I WON"T TALK to "HER"!!!***Maybe big b2 can talk to T about methods of calming and distraction and self soothing etc. I don't think little b2 has to talk to lady right now. But she needs to take the tape off and take some deep breaths. If she wants to stop hurting she's gonna have to let big b2 try and help.
This is all just my opinion in my experience.
>
> sorry.***don't be sorry. Your words, all of them, help me. i don't just want to hear only good stuff. I want to hear what is real.
>
> i have to proctor a test this afternoon, maybe that will give me some time to write. maybe i can let little b2 write as well. if she'll even let me help her...which i doubt. she was buried pretty deep. i think she slipped out up there though.***Thats ok. I know my kid likes to be out sometimes too. And thats ok, as long as she behaves.
> thanks muff.
**thanks b2> fairy place is just nonexistant for me right now. it's not real, no place safe for me is. i have no right to be free and safe.
***OK , mebbe later.
> no one helped me then, so why now.i'm alone yet again.i hate the ache.
***You not alone. Big b2 is there.
>
> "JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> FOREVER!***My kid said almost those exact words. But she was just angry. Sometimes she does just want to be alone. Cuz thats what she's used to. Either way its ok with me. And big b2 is really nice, so I'm sure she will be good to you. I made TONS of stupid mistakes with my kid, b2 proly will too. But at least we try. And we not give up on you guys.
Never.
Hope you feel better soon b2.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 13:49:12
In reply to sorry above, i've been getting mixed lately. (nm), posted by B2chica on February 13, 2006, at 13:27:33
Ya, I do that too.
One time I gave some writings to my T and they were all the kids except a little bit at the end which I'm not sure of.
And she read them aloud, and kept saying who is she etc. and I was getting mad, and i finally blurted that it was ALL her. I don't usu. get mad.
Thats why I think I don't say much bout my kid to T, cuz I don't think she 'gets ' it.
Oh well.
Your kids running wild and free.
My kid thinks its great.
If you want to babblemail me thats ok too.
Be patient w/each other, its hard stuff.
Muffled
Posted by James K on February 13, 2006, at 18:36:16
In reply to Re: sorry above, i've been getting mixed lately., posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 13:49:12
When you get a heavy bag, you have to wrap your wrists and knuckles with ace bandage, then put on training gloves. This is very important. If you have room, you can buy a stand to put up or install in a strong upper beam. I had to move mine to my friends warehouse/studio, because my place didn't work. protect your hands and wrists because they are the only ones you have. beat the sh*t out of that mother f*cker. If someone is around, make them scared. I've never hit a human being as hard as a bag but me. Jab, jab, right cross, left body shot, right cross over and over until you can't breath. Keep your hands to guard your face, and put you legs and shoulders into it. Knees and elbows if you feel the need.
Anything we do to ourselves or others is nothing compared to what those things did to us. I hate. It is not funny, but it is. What do I hate? an idea, people who don't exist as they were then. I have names. They'll never know, but I know. I remind myself. If you can name it, I've done it, would do it, had it done to me, would do it to the next. These are shells. damn, I better shut up. B2chica and muffled, I warned you or should have, please be very save. I'm bad right now and taking steps, hard steps, to get right. If I found out I hurt your emotions by venting, it would hurt me real bad. I want to be well, so do you. let's help each other. by the end of the week or before I will be gone.
The most important thing is " I like you. " I've said it, and it's been said to me. If we can forget the other stuff and focus on that. I still drink. Muffy, you don't (right?) b2chica, i don't know. It's not the best idea for me.
Damos is special. One time in group therapy, I went to my special place and there was blood everywhere, because when I overdosed, and sat out there in front of my bonsai and waited for the ambulance and the birds were singing and the sun was shining and I was on my bench, and everything was okay. And blood. And I went back there in my mind and freaked, so I need a new safe place.
Last time I went into relax with group, I started to hyperventitate and shake. I'm dumping.
shut up James shut Up. sorry friends.
James K
Posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 19:32:10
In reply to Heavy bag, went ugly, sorry,bad bad, posted by James K on February 13, 2006, at 18:36:16
Posted by B2chica on February 14, 2006, at 8:49:36
In reply to Heavy bag, went ugly, sorry,bad bad, posted by James K on February 13, 2006, at 18:36:16
its not good for me to drink either j. that's when i'm most likely to OD or SI, sometimes when dysphoric want to dismember self...NOT good. i get pretty abusive (to self).
sorry you lost your safe place, your welcome to share mine as long as you need to.please take care of yourself j.
b2c.
Posted by damos on February 15, 2006, at 18:02:16
In reply to HEY DAMOS, posted by muffled on February 13, 2006, at 12:56:57
Hey Muffled,
Sorry not to get here sooner. But you know with dates and weddings and all life's been pretty hectic ;-)
Do you wanna job as my publicist? Can you give a bloke a wrap or what.
Muffled do you think you could find those first posts where we talked about us talking, cause that might help B2 and little B2 feel more comfortable as we haven't talked for a long time.
B2, I honestly don't what to say. But what you've posted touched me and makes me feel really deeply. I'm sorry things are hard and that your little one is so angry. And I'm sorry about the things that have happened to you both. Neither you or your little one did anything to deserve being hit or hurt in way. I haven't got any special skills or training or anything, but I can listen pretty good, most times anyways.
Muffled means a lot to me and I just try to treat her with the kindness and respect that I'd want to be treated with, simple as that. Just accept them as they are. And she's sweet and kind and funny and brings a lot of joy and happiness to my life. Her being safe and okay means heaps to me too. It'd mean a lot to know you and little B2 were too. So you ever wanna talk that'd be nice.
If you wanna go inside and bundle up the hurts and angries and send 'em to me I'll put on the special shelf I have with the gifts other babblers have given me and just mind 'em for a while so you guys don't have to worry about 'em for a bit. Don't worry I won't open it or nothing, not unless you want me to. I'll just mind it for you okay.
You and little B2 take good care of each other okay.
Lotsa warm wishes and safe hugs to you all.
Damos
Posted by B2chica on February 16, 2006, at 9:23:10
In reply to HEY MUFFLED, B2 :-), posted by damos on February 15, 2006, at 18:02:16
hi damos.
the stupid little one is so stupidly scared now she's cowering and i'm not sure how to treat her...i usually ignore her but in therapy she was starting to come out, now that my t is gone...she an idiot and confused a lot so i tell her to shut up and stay there curled up in a corner.
i know you're gonna say i'm mean but somebody's got to keep on track so don't loose job and can take care of hubby and house. she shure as h@ll can't do it. Especially now.maybe...maybe if she's ready to actually say something, i can say it to you first to see if she wants to tell new T. she's quite upset and wants to test new T all the time.
anyway. thanks for the good words.
i like muffled too. so does little b2.b2c.
This is the end of the thread.
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