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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Shortelise on October 30, 2005, at 1:47:57
Are you ok?
Posted by antigua on October 30, 2005, at 9:17:45
In reply to Antigua?, posted by Shortelise on October 30, 2005, at 1:47:57
Thanks for checking in. It has been a very bad couple of days but I think I've learned a lot.When I was rejected by my designated "hugee" all types of feelings were let loose, but the one I keep focusing on is a feeling that it was a sexual rejection; that I'm old, fat, ugly and this guy can have any young thing he'd probably go after (he is very proud of his physique, and is in excellent shape for his age--(older than me BTW). He has totally rejected me, and won't even let me speak with him. It's bizarre, as if I was a stalker or something.
The sexual rejection was very confusing to me. Why? Well, here's the hard part for me, and stop reading if it's too much.
My abuser was my father. He left our family when I was about 11. I didn't see him for at least a full year after that until he came to visit for Christmas (and my birthday). I was in 6th grade, had just gotten my period, was kind of chubby (as girls tend to be during puberty, before they blossom), my teeth needed braces, you get the picture. The typical awkward pre-teen. There was some confusion over my birthday present--I thought he didn't bring me one, while brought my brother one, so I was really hurt (he had sent me something that arrived later, but I didn't know that and he didn't tell me).
That weekend, I felt rejected by my father; I just felt it all around me. He had a new woman and he had no need of me. I remember he told me I was fat, which made me feel repulsive (bulimia didn't happen until later!). . He never touched me, thank god, but that weekend was the end of it all for me. I felt totally, 100% rejected, and I guess I was too old for him now. He rejected me sexually, in my young girl's mind, and since love and sex were so confused in my mind, I felt he had taken his love away.
This is really, really hard. I wasn't even good enough for him anymore. Twisted, right? What kind of normal relationships could a girl like this ever expect to have?
Does anyone else have similar experience? Did anyone else feel rejected by their abuser?? Or have I just totally lost it?
I know we're working this back towards the beginning, with my T, and I will call her later, but I'm just so stunned.
antigua
Posted by Pfinstegg on October 30, 2005, at 10:01:35
In reply to Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa**, posted by antigua on October 30, 2005, at 9:17:45
Yes, I'm so sad to say. My father molested me when I was six, but then, as I grew older, he became very cold, critical and rejecting. He didn't leave the family, but he began beating me severely, over little things I hardly thought were wrong. My analyst has said a number of times that the sequence of sexual abuse followed by emotional and/or physical abuse, is very common. It's a way for them to control their impulses, (by emphasizing negative things about you), and also to blame YOU for causing them to lose control and molest you.
It's the saddest thing in the world, just as you are saying. Everyone longs for a safe and loving father. There's no way to look at it without it hurting terribly. The only good new thing is- there is a very caring, empathic therapist with us now who will stay with us as we go through the terrible remembering, and who is dedicated to helping us heal from such horrible experiences. People have done that, before us, so I feel confident and hopeful that we can, too.
What you described about a present-day rejection: try not to hurt too much about that, or let it be too important.. When you begin regaining your confidence, I feel sure that you will be much less likely to get involved with people who are rejecting.
Posted by Shortelise on October 30, 2005, at 16:13:35
In reply to Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa**, posted by antigua on October 30, 2005, at 9:17:45
How hurtful all of that is.
Antigua, I keep writing one sentence after another and deleting them. Let me just write, ok, but please understand that I am not imagining that what I write is some sort of truth for you, but just ideas that come to me when I read what you wrote. Deal?
If you are learning about these things in therapy, the feelings about your Dad, the things that happened between you, it makes perfect sense that you would offer yourself to someone who would reject you in the same way your Dad did. You can now look at it from two perspectives: then and now, that is, how you felt when these things were happening to you as a child, and how those things affected your life up to and including now.
Your way of approaching this, of bringing it home to yourself, sounds so right to me. You knew sh*theels was going to reject you, but you asked anyway. Could it be that you are ready to, and in a safe therapeutic relationship where you can, look back and do some healing?
Girls who are not sexually abused by their Dad's also have sexual tension with them. It's usual. What a mess to sort through it all. To me, and what do I know, your reaction to him when you were 11 sounds like a sane reaction to an insane situation.
((antigua))
Posted by Tamar on October 30, 2005, at 16:22:57
In reply to Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa**, posted by antigua on October 30, 2005, at 9:17:45
> Thanks for checking in. It has been a very bad couple of days but I think I've learned a lot.When I was rejected by my designated "hugee" all types of feelings were let loose, but the one I keep focusing on is a feeling that it was a sexual rejection; that I'm old, fat, ugly and this guy can have any young thing he'd probably go after (he is very proud of his physique, and is in excellent shape for his age--(older than me BTW). He has totally rejected me, and won't even let me speak with him. It's bizarre, as if I was a stalker or something.
Yes, I think I can relate to the sexual rejection thing. Especially since this man has rejected you so completely as to refuse to speak to you. That *is* bizarre, and he must be over-reacting. It sounds as if he has issues of his own… Otherwise, if he didn’t want to hug you, he could easily have said, “Sorry, I don’t really feel comfortable with hugs; I hope we can still be friends.”
I can understand that being refused a hug and being pushed away completely might cause you to feel ugly. I would feel that way too. The sad thing is that if he’s the sort of person who would reject you like this, perhaps a hug from him wouldn’t have been the beautiful experience you’d hoped for.
I was thinking some more about the sexual element in the wish for a hug and I wonder if it’s about being desired by a man who can touch you intimately (by hugging you) without trying to be *sexually* intimate. I think (for me anyway) it might be about experiencing a safe and restrained male sexuality. Maybe there’s an idea of sacrifice in it too… it’s the idea that he wants me but he won’t touch me sexually because he knows that despite his desire (and possibly mine) it wouldn’t be best for me... I guess ultimately it’s an attempt to rewrite history.
> The sexual rejection was very confusing to me. Why? Well, here's the hard part for me, and stop reading if it's too much.
>
> My abuser was my father. He left our family when I was about 11. I didn't see him for at least a full year after that until he came to visit for Christmas (and my birthday). I was in 6th grade, had just gotten my period, was kind of chubby (as girls tend to be during puberty, before they blossom), my teeth needed braces, you get the picture. The typical awkward pre-teen. There was some confusion over my birthday present--I thought he didn't bring me one, while brought my brother one, so I was really hurt (he had sent me something that arrived later, but I didn't know that and he didn't tell me).I’m so sorry about the present. How disappointing and confusing for you. That in itself must have felt like a rejection.
> That weekend, I felt rejected by my father; I just felt it all around me. He had a new woman and he had no need of me. I remember he told me I was fat, which made me feel repulsive (bulimia didn't happen until later!). . He never touched me, thank god, but that weekend was the end of it all for me. I felt totally, 100% rejected, and I guess I was too old for him now. He rejected me sexually, in my young girl's mind, and since love and sex were so confused in my mind, I felt he had taken his love away.
I think many girls would have felt sexually rejected by all that, even without sexual abuse in the equation. Fathers can be very important to pubescent girls, and there can be all kinds of sexual undercurrents in a father-daughter relationship. In an ideal world, fathers help their daughters negotiate all that sexual tension by helping them to feel comfortable about their new bodies and feelings and thoughts, and without exploiting them. So if there’s a history of sexual abuse it must be even more complicated and distressing.
> This is really, really hard. I wasn't even good enough for him anymore. Twisted, right? What kind of normal relationships could a girl like this ever expect to have?I really don’t think you’re twisted. I think it’s a perfectly natural way to react to his rejection. Sexual rejection is always difficult to deal with, but when you’re in 6th grade and it’s your father… that’s one of the hardest kinds of rejection anyone could ever face.
> Does anyone else have similar experience? Did anyone else feel rejected by their abuser?? Or have I just totally lost it?
I haven’t had the same kind of experience, but I know people who have, and I know it can be extremely confusing. You’d expect to feel relieved that your abuser is no longer interested in abusing you. But because the abuser is someone who also showed you love, and because sexual behaviour is associated with love almost everywhere else in society, it can feel as if by stopping the abuse the abuser has also stopped loving you. And to add into that his new woman and unkind words at a point in your life when your own sexuality is just beginning to develop… it must be one of the most painful things you could experience.
> I know we're working this back towards the beginning, with my T, and I will call her later, but I'm just so stunned.
I can really understand why the rejection by this man you wanted to hug would bring back all those 6th grade feelings about your father (and by the way, I wondered whether this man reminds you of your father in some way). But I’m certain that despite your feelings at the moment, you’re not too old or ugly to be loved, hugged and desired.
I hope you can find someone who deserves your wish for a hug, because this man obviously didn’t.
Tamar
Posted by daisym on October 30, 2005, at 20:58:06
In reply to Re: Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa** » antigua, posted by Tamar on October 30, 2005, at 16:22:57
I'm sitting here wondering how to respond. I feel furious and sad and filled with an understanding I wish I didn't have. My dad was my "favorite" parent -- he stayed home with us when we were small (he was finishing his PhD and my mom worked) and he was the snuggly, huggy one. There is so much confusion for me now, any yearning for physical comfort has sexual overtones. I expect touch to turn sexual...except with my kids. And I expect to have to "pay" for hugs, comfort, etc.
The fact that my dad moved away when I was 13, (without saying good-bye) and was gone from my life for 4 years added to the confusion. I missed him terribly, felt the loss deeply and was hugely relieved. He came back into my life when my older brother graduated from high school. By then he was remarried and he had had a vascetomy. (I swear, first two things he shared with me when he visited.) I cried when told me about his new wife -- like another loss was taking place. Like I'd been replaced and rejected. It didn't help that he had lots to say about my breasts, boys and my probable sexual conduct. This is where I started drinking -- my Junior year in high school.
I'm telling you all this just to try to show you that you aren't twisted and you certainly aren't alone. I wish you never had this experience. But I think it is huge that you have learned so much about yourself and your feelings through this episode. It is really looking more and more like a re-enactment, isn't it? It makes me wonder which part of you (younger self) was asking for the hug, and which part feels that 6th grade hurt? It is times like these that I wish we could just remember, not feel every damn thing!
I agree with everyone else. You aren't too old, nor too ugly to be loved, hugged and cared for. You are special. You deserve to have someone sooth the hurt, not add too it.
And...it is OK that you still love your dad. This is something I struggle with, holding love and hate at the same time. But it is what we grew up with.
No wonder we are confused.
(((Antigue)))
Posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 7:06:15
In reply to Re: Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa** » antigua, posted by Pfinstegg on October 30, 2005, at 10:01:35
Thank you, what insight. This is a whole area I had never thought/confronted until this came up. It just came as a complete surprise. Which makes me think my T and I are working backwards (at least this week anyway). By being able to face the rejection at 11, maybe my mind will be more willing to look at what he did.
"My analyst has said a number of times that the sequence of sexual abuse followed by emotional and/or physical abuse, is very common. It's a way for them to control their impulses, (by emphasizing negative things about you), and also to blame YOU for causing them to lose control and molest you."
I didn't know this, but it explains some things. Thanks for making me think in this direction.
I will tell you that I was so filled w/rage yesterday afternoon that I didn't know what to do. I don't do rage, have never been able to access it and have always turned it inward. Well, I went for a walk and when I came home I found a padded baseball bat and took it over to the park are beat the sh$t out of the wire fences. It was so much better than turning it on myself.
thanks for taking the time to reply,
antigua
Posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 7:09:30
In reply to Re: Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa** » antigua, posted by Shortelise on October 30, 2005, at 16:13:35
"Could it be that you are ready to, and in a safe therapeutic relationship where you can, look back and do some healing?"
I think you're right, here, I must be willing to take the heat for this, I must be strong enough. As I said to Pfinstegg, I must be more ready to handle it.
As to the guy? He posessed so many of the good qualities my father did, but oh... how projection and identification can turn out so wrong. I think I'll get a voodoo doll.
thanks, I feel better thanks to you guys,
antigua
Posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 7:14:22
In reply to Re: Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa** » antigua, posted by Tamar on October 30, 2005, at 16:22:57
You made some great points, but why don't I know these things BEFORE I get myself into these horrible situations? That's what I want, not to barrel through on my own, only to feel rejected and confused.
Yes, this guy more than reminds me of my father, and I recognized that from the very beginning. I've stayed away from him for years because of this, but I guess I just lost my head. The good things he represented just drew me in. And he did reject me, but I know in my heart that it's not the same thing as my father. But feeling it is different.
This morning the light is better. His loss, not mine. I think you're very right about the hug--it's intimate, but not sexual, although I did want mine to be sexual too. Not normally, though. A good safe hug is a wonderful thing.
antigua
Posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 7:22:00
In reply to Re: Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa**, posted by daisym on October 30, 2005, at 20:58:06
Sounds like you know too well. I hope I don't trigger you, or anyone here for that matter, too much because selfishly I would hate to lose the support, but I don't want to hurt anyone either.
That Christmas after my father left, I didn't see him for another 18 months, and had no contact. I started to make real friends and had a few boys who were interested in me. I was doing great, in my mind. I was as comfortable with myself as I guess I could be given the situation, but I didn't go run and hide in my room.
Then the ax fell again. My mother sent me to my father's for the summer before 8th grade, and never came back to get me. Dumped again. With my father's new wife and her gorgeous daughters who were exactly my age.
Talk about depression. I was replaced with him, because of the new wife and his eyes were now on the daughters, and I became a complete mess. Learned about bulimia and lived a miserable high school experience.
I guess that's been my life. Things get good, then security is yanked away, and I'm on my own.
So the 6th grade girl had one year of insanity and then it all started all over again.
I said I was working backwards, and I do think it is so I can maybe look/accept/understand the youngest parts when I am the strongest.
Take care, daisy, and I'm here with you too,
antigua
Posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 8:35:54
In reply to Re: Tale Tales **May be big trigger for some, csa** » daisym, posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 7:22:00
Would it surprise anyone to know that the incidents I have described above happened on the cusp of my 12 to 13 yr. old birthday and that my own sweet daughter is going to be 13 next week? Also, this week is the anniversary of my father's death?
I think it's wonderful how our minds work.
love to all,
antigu
Posted by B2chica on October 31, 2005, at 9:54:17
In reply to Would it surprise anyone?, posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 8:35:54
antigua, i just want to quickly add that you left one very important fact out of all this. You ASKED for a hug.
even if subconciously you knew you'd be rejected. there was something that you wanted/needed and you asked for it.
just because you were rejected doesn't mean you shouldn't have asked it! i think that alone was a big step and shouldn't be ignored.this seems like a stressful time for you (understatement) but you need to take some successes out of this action.
about the surprise...no, i think it's is interesting how our mind works.
one of my abusers was my brother, and i think in all my relationships (friendships) i look for that 'older brother'/protective figure. the sick part for me is that even the times that he hurt me physically i still longed to be with him, cuz that meant he loved me, cared for me, wanted me to be with him. he was after all my big brother. :(
b2c.
Posted by Shortelise on October 31, 2005, at 12:30:28
In reply to Would it surprise anyone?, posted by antigua on October 31, 2005, at 8:35:54
My heart aches for you, Antigua.
Don't worry, I can deal with it, I wouldn't come here if I couldn't.
I'm just so so sorry.
ShortE
This is the end of the thread.
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