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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:19:31
You know I don't know what to talk about in my next session. I am tired of talking about my marriage, because nothing is changing.
Do I really need to pay $90 bucks for him to tell me what I already know? Do I really need him to reinforse my good changes I am making? Therapy is expensive and for me to just go in circles about my marriage seems like a waste of money.
I don't know, am I just trying to pull away from my T ? I sometimes feel like I really don't need to see him anymore for therapy. When will I be able to do without therapy? Do I need therapy anymore? How do I know that the changes I have made will last or are just tempory. Thanks for listening. I am going to bed, I am exhausted now.
I feel like it would be easier for me to pull away from my T, cold turkey, and get on with my life without him. He doesn't really care about me anyways like he would a friend. I am not special to him, so why do I bother putting so much thought into someone who really only sees me as a client and nothing more. Why am I wasting my life over wanting him to care about me, why should he I am just client number 2004. 2003 clients before has moved on without him, so why should I be any different to him? I just feel it would be easier for me to just to disapear out of his life quietly so he doesn't have to bother with me or pretend to care.
Posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:43:16
In reply to Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:19:31
I think my T should not come to my concert, and just spend time with people he really cares about that are special to him, and not waste time on his client who is nothing to him in his real life. Why is he trying to mess with my head about this?
Posted by Annierose on October 25, 2005, at 21:50:28
In reply to Re: Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:43:16
I don't think T's pretend to care. They do care. It's just they hear our stories and help us understand why we feel or react to things the way we do. It's a special kind of listening skill.
Even if you wanted to quit, you should at least go to your next appointment and explain how you feel.
It is a different sort of relationship, with different boundaries. But it's still a caring relationship. I hope you get a good night of rest! And good luck at your concert! When is it?
Posted by daisym on October 25, 2005, at 23:48:50
In reply to Re: Thinking of canceling my next session » happyflower, posted by Annierose on October 25, 2005, at 21:50:28
I agree with Annie...you should at least go to your next session and get closure. I think deep down you know he cares about you, it just isn't enough sometimes. And that is so frustrating. (Projecting all over the place here - sorry.)
But I think he has shown you lots of ways he cares and you know in your gut if this is the truth or not. You really may be ready to be done. It sounds like you are doing great. But I think you owe yourself a great good-bye. And I think what you are feeling is really typical during long stretches of separation. After all if you've made it this long, why start things up again, right? *sigh*
GG said it best. Therapy is hard.
Posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 7:49:14
In reply to Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:19:31
(((((Happyflower)))))
You sound angry and frustrated. It sounds to me as if you’re feeling neglected by your T and feeling that he doesn’t really care about you.
I wonder if you’re feeling frustrated because you hoped to be able to resolve the difficulties in your marriage more quickly than this. And I wonder also if there’s a bit of transference/projection in there: perhaps you’re particularly angry with your husband at the moment because he isn’t showing you that he cares about you, and you might be projecting some of that onto your T and imagining that he’s just as uncaring as your husband.
I know you’re worried the changes might be temporary. But it seems to me that you’ve made an immense amount of progress, particularly with your PTSD and the issues with your mother.
I think the most painful part of therapy is the uncertainty of the therapist’s feelings. It seems almost cruel that they won’t tell us we’re special and they won’t tell us they care about us, especially when they must know it would make us feel better. It feels like they’re withholding love on purpose, just to make us feel bad.
And I’ve read some of the theory so I know a little about why they do it. They can’t replace the important relationships in our real lives so they want to encourage us to focus on those relationships. They don’t want to mislead us into thinking that they’re prepared to form intimate relationships with us in real life, because an intimate relationship in real life wouldn’t be therapy and we’d have to start over with a new T. They can’t magically fix us by comforting us and they don’t want to encourage us to expect the impossible from them. But reading the theory is one thing; believing it’s true is something else!
I was thinking about this stuff recently. I have many friends who I love very much but I don’t need them to tell me they love me; I know they love me. And I guess ideally we should be able to get to the same place with a therapist. Eventually we should be able to believe they care because of the way they listen to us and the way they work with us, rather than wanting to hear them say it. But in the meantime it hurts that they won’t say it. It feels like they’re not saying it because they don’t feel it.
However, I really believe they do care, and that they care very much. It must be difficult for your T to see you suffering, knowing that he could just tell you how much he cares and that you’d feel better. But I guess he knows that he can’t fix you by telling you he cares… he can’t be the hero who rescues you from your pain. So he wants to help you to find your own way through it and become the hero yourself.
You’ve had a great deal of sh*t to put up with in life and you’ve come so far already, so I think you’re pretty heroic!
I hope you feel better soon.
Tamar
Posted by allisonross on October 26, 2005, at 8:25:46
In reply to Re: Thinking of canceling my next session » happyflower, posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 7:49:14
Hi, Tamar, sweetie: Just wanted to tell you, what a lovely post you sent to Happy Flower.........you are a treasure, I am sure. Smiles n grins, Alice
Posted by allisonross on October 26, 2005, at 8:30:17
In reply to To: Tamar: canceling my next session, posted by allisonross on October 26, 2005, at 8:25:46
((((HappyFlower))))....sweetie....I sense your misery and pain.........I was in an abusive marriage for 31 years (such a looooong story).....I'd love to talk to you via e-mail (if it ever works, and I have no idea why i am not receiving yours); guess i will babble mail you? Hey, you can stop paying 90 bucks, and I will counsel you for free! It's what I do......we can even go out for a drink (I'm getting bolder and out there more and more); I only drank when i went out (2 times a year, LOL); Now, I bought some rum /Captain Morgan(captain and coke), and every sunday night before my appointment, I have a drinkie-poo! Makes me feel all naughty and grown up (never happen, LOL))........sorry, not meaning to minimize your pain, anger, frustration...............please write to me; I would love to be of help and support.....Hugs, Allison
Posted by happyflower on October 26, 2005, at 12:51:21
In reply to Re: Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by allisonross on October 26, 2005, at 8:30:17
I think he shouldn't come to my concert. What do you think? I think he should spend time with his special people in his life like his friends and family. I am not special to him. He told me he was going to treat me just like he treats all of his clients. So if he came to my concert, wouldn't that be treating me special? I don't want the mixed message there. I just want him to leave me alone so I can forget about him, another person who leaves me. My parents didn't come to my concerts growing up, because I was nothing to them, why should my T come to my concert?I am just sick of everything good in my life always turning to SH#T. Sorry I am venting here, but I hate my life, I hate getting close to anyone, because they will always disapoint me. My T is no different. If I thought I would get attached to him, I would have never tried therapy. I am tired of losing everyone. I am tied of even trying anymore, the hurt isn't worth it.
Posted by Tamar on October 26, 2005, at 14:20:56
In reply to Re: Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 26, 2005, at 12:51:21
> I think he shouldn't come to my concert. What do you think?
(((((Happyflower)))))
Since you ask, here’s what I think: I think you should call him and see if you can get an appointment before the one in 8 days. And if you can’t see him, maybe you could talk to him on the phone.
It’s really hard going so long without therapy, particularly when things are difficult at home. I think you need to tell him how angry you’re feeling and how you’re fed up with trying.
> I think he should spend time with his special people in his life like his friends and family. I am not special to him. He told me he was going to treat me just like he treats all of his clients. So if he came to my concert, wouldn't that be treating me special?
Insofar as he probably takes professional and personal pride in the achievements of his clients, I don’t think it would mean he was breaking any boundaries of specialness. But insofar as you’re probably the only one of his clients who’s in a concert, then yes, I guess it does mean he thinks you’re special.
> I don't want the mixed message there. I just want him to leave me alone so I can forget about him, another person who leaves me.
It sounds to me as if you’re finding this month between appointments just too hard. It doesn’t have to be that hard. I know you’re angry at him, but can you call him and tell him how you’re feeling?
> My parents didn't come to my concerts growing up, because I was nothing to them, why should my T come to my concert?
I’m so sorry your parents didn’t go to your concerts. I was in some concerts when I was growing up and my father often couldn’t make it because of work, and I remember feeling hurt about it. So I can imagine the idea of your T coming to this concert is a really big deal for you.
> I am just sick of everything good in my life always turning to SH#T. Sorry I am venting here, but I hate my life, I hate getting close to anyone, because they will always disapoint me. My T is no different. If I thought I would get attached to him, I would have never tried therapy. I am tired of losing everyone. I am tied of even trying anymore, the hurt isn't worth it.
I’m sorry you’re hurting and frustrated and disappointed.
I really hope you’ll call him.
Tamar
Posted by orchid on October 26, 2005, at 14:47:36
In reply to Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:19:31
Hi HF,
I am sorry you are feeling so confused.
It all feels almost like a deja vu for me.
The truth is, I don't really know what to tell you, and what will make you feel better and which will keep you feeling better in the long run. I don't really know what the right thing to do is - to continue therapy or to terminate, if he should come to your concert, or shouldn't, should you feel special or you should feel just as one of his many patients. Each thing has its pros and cons, and what works better for the short term might make you hurt in the long term. There are too many emotional factors involved.
One thing I do know for sure is, if possible, if you can focus on what this relationship and the feelings mean for you, rather than focusing on your T, it might end up giving valuable insight into yourself. And that might help you in the long run to become a well rounded personality and grow up emotionally. And sadly, therapy is meant only for that purpose - to help you grow to be able to sustain yourself emotionally.
Posted by happyflower on October 26, 2005, at 17:36:50
In reply to Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:19:31
Phil Collins song fits perfectly how I feel about leaving therapy, leaving my T. Sorry it is so sad, I am just feeling a little emotional today.
Against All Odds- Phil Collins
How can I just let you walk away
just let you leave without a trace?
When I stand here taking every breath with youOoh
you're the only one who really knew me at all.
How can you just walk away from me when all I can do is watch you leave'
'cos we shared the laughter and the pain and even shared the tears.
You're the only one who really knew me at all.
So take a look at me now
well
there's just an empty space
And there's nothing left here to remind me
Just the memory of your face.
Oh
take a look at me now
there's just an empty spaceAnd you coming back to me is against the odds
And that's what I've got to face.
I wish I could just make you turn around
turn around and see me cry.
There's so much I need to say to you
so many reasons why.
You're the only one who really knew me at all.
So take a look at me now
well
there's just an empty spaceAnd there's nothing left here to remind me
Just the memory of your face.
Now take a look at me now
'cos there'c just an empty spaceBut to wait for you is all I can do and that's what I've got to face.
Take a look at me now
'cos I'll still be standing hereAnd you coming back to me is against all odds
It's the chance I've got to take. - Take a look at me now.
Posted by fallsfall on October 26, 2005, at 20:21:54
In reply to Thinking of canceling my next session, posted by happyflower on October 25, 2005, at 21:19:31
>You know I don't know what to talk about in my next session.
Happyflower, this thread is full of what you need to talk about in your next session. I hope you can do that. I really think that it will help you.
(((Happyflower)))
Posted by orchid on October 26, 2005, at 20:34:52
In reply to Against All Odds- this is how I feel about my T, posted by happyflower on October 26, 2005, at 17:36:50
I think it is time for you to let your T know about your feelings for him.
And to let him guide you through it and help you come out of it. I hope he can do it effectively without hurting you. There is no use in keeping your feelings to yourself, and worrying by yourself.
Plus, in case he turns out to be very capable of helping you grow, it will be a major plus for you.
Posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 10:52:32
In reply to Re: Against All Odds- this is how I feel about my T » happyflower, posted by orchid on October 26, 2005, at 20:34:52
I found it hard to even look at him. We eventually came face to face and he said hi and I said hi back , but I left the room as fast as I could. It hurt to see him and he has no idea how I feel. :( and I just don't feel comfortable telling him either.
Posted by Dinah on October 28, 2005, at 11:25:08
In reply to Saw my T at the gym today, posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 10:52:32
Such a sudden shift in your feelings toward him is probably worth a good conversation with your therapist.
I'm sorry you're feeling this way. :(
Posted by daisym on October 28, 2005, at 13:03:03
In reply to Saw my T at the gym today, posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 10:52:32
I think it must be really hard to see him and not be able to talk to him the way you really want to. It would make me miss him even more -- "so close yet so far."
I agree with Dinah. I think you will feel better if you can force yourself to admit the conflicting and confusing feelings. You probably won't get what you want but you will be heard and you can really sort through what is underneith all of this.
It is hard. Really hard. But worth it.
Hang in there. You see him next week, right?
Posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:09:38
In reply to Re: Saw my T at the gym today » happyflower, posted by daisym on October 28, 2005, at 13:03:03
> I think it must be really hard to see him and not be able to talk to him the way you really want to. It would make me miss him even more -- "so close yet so far."
Yes, this is how I felt. I probably had a stunned look on my face when I saw him, because I was trying to avoid seeing him, but then I walked off the track and he was at the drinking fountain looking right at me. I wasn't smiling like I usually am. I am usually happy to see him, I wonder if I hurt is ego. LOL I at least muttered out a Hi back at him, but I couldn't look at him when I said it. I always have about 95% eye contact with him during our sessions.
I don't know if I can gain enough nerve to talk about this with him. I already knows what he feels about me, he has given me the non-special speech once too many times and I don't want to hear it again. I am hoping I can work through these feelings before my next apponintment on Thurs. , so I don't have to talk to him about it. I am a realist, and I know I just have to accept our relationship for what it is, and move on, and try not let the letting go hurt so much.
My DH is coming home from China tomorrow. I have been getting these mushy emails from him this week. I am like what? This is news to me. But it confuses me all the more with him. Maybe there is some hope with him after all. Thanks for your support, I am trying to hang in there! :) I did yoga today, and I was so relaxed, I came home and slept 2 hours.
Posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:51:52
In reply to Re: Saw my T at the gym today Dinah and » daisym, posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:09:38
Okay, I am probably adding salt to my wounds but her is another song I heard today.I wanna be the one
I will remember you
Will you remember me?
Don't let your life pass you by
Weep not for the memories
I'm so tired
but I can't sleep
Standin' on the edge
of something much too deep
It's funny how we feel so much
but we cannot say a word
We are screaming inside,
but we can't be heard
But I will remember you
Will you remember me?
Don't let your life pass you by
Weep not for the memories
I'm so afraid to love you,
but more afraid to loose
Clinging to a past
that doesn't let me choose
Once there was a darkness,
deep and endless night
You gave me everything you had,
oh you gave me light
And I will remember you
Will you remember me?
Don't let your life pass you by
Weep not for the memories
And I will remember you
Will you remember me?
Don't let your life pass you by
Weep not for the memories
Weep not for the memories
Posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:59:37
In reply to more lyrics Sarah McLachlan I Love You, posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:51:52
Posted by Susan47 on October 28, 2005, at 18:38:55
In reply to more lyrics Sarah McLachlan I Love You, posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:51:52
I have a smile
stretched from ear to ear
To see you walkin' down the road
We meet at the lights
I stare for a while
The world around is disappears ...
It's just you and me
On my island of hope
A breath between us could be miles
Let me surround you
A sea to your shore ...
Let me be the calm you seek
Oh and everytime I'm close to you
There's too much I can't say
And you just walk away ...
And I forgot
To tell you, I love you ...
And now it's too long
I'm cold here without you
I grieve in my condition
For I cannot find the words to say
I need you so.
Posted by Susan47 on October 28, 2005, at 18:41:23
In reply to more lyrics Sarah McLachlan I Love You, posted by happyflower on October 28, 2005, at 14:51:52
... and every time
I'm close to you
there's too much I can't say
And you just walk away ...
And I forgot to tell you
I Love You ...
And now it's too long
I'm cold here without you ...
I grieve in my condition,
for I cannot find the words to say,
I need you so.
Posted by happyflower on October 30, 2005, at 15:32:22
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone, posted by B2chica on October 26, 2005, at 11:28:28
I just don't think he should come to my concert.It is on the weekend and he should spend time with his family, and friends, not come to my concert. I am nobody to him, he should spend time with the somebodies in his life. I was a nobody to my parents, and they didn't come to my concerts, why should he? He told me he was going to treat me like he does any of his clients, not special. So coming to my concert, well wouldn't that be treating me special? I don't want him to care about me, I don't want to care about him. I just want him to leave me alone so I can get on with my life without him. It hurts to have everything in life that is good turn bad always. I don't want the pain of losing another person in my life.
Posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 15:34:19
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone, posted by happyflower on October 26, 2005, at 12:39:58
Well, but how long has he been your T? Wouldn't that make a difference to how you welcome him into your life? If you're not ready to do that, you might have a reason not to trust him. Go with your instincts, don't get hurt.
Posted by Happyflower on October 30, 2005, at 16:38:57
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone » happyflower, posted by Susan47 on October 30, 2005, at 15:34:19
> Well, but how long has he been your T? Wouldn't that make a difference to how you welcome him into your life? If you're not ready to do that, you might have a reason not to trust him. Go with your instincts, don't get hurt.
I have seeing him since this January. I do trust him but I still don't want to get hurt when I end therapy.
Posted by Tamar on October 30, 2005, at 16:39:38
In reply to Re: Thanks to everyone, posted by happyflower on October 26, 2005, at 12:39:58
Permission to speak freely, Captain?
(i.e. I've had some thoughts I'd like to run by you, but I want to warn you that they might conflict with some of yours.)
If you want to hear them, let me know. If you don't, that's absolutely fine and you can ignore this message!
Either way, I thought you might need some hugs:
(((((Happyflower)))))
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