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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on August 4, 2005, at 19:42:59
Yesterday I did it, without shaking and without heart palpitations for the first time in ages, since he terminated me more than a year ago. So a dozen times or more anyway. In any case, I use a drycleaner nearby and he's seen me coming out of there once and I didn't go for ages, now I'm going again and I can do it without feeling like I'm his special nuisance and if he sees me he'll cross the street. Which I think he actually has. Even out and out ignored my presence, and not just because that's a policy with pts. or ex-pt's, now I can actually feel, like, it would be nice to see him but not under his terms, not in his territory, I don't need to be in his territory it doesn't make me feel good.
That whole concept is weird, because actually seeing his face and being seen back, by him, feels so terribly wonderful. Stupid. The whole thing is messed right up. But tomorrow I have to go back after work and pick up the cleaning, and I'm not going to feel intimidated and I'm not going to feel scared. I might walk down the street a bit, towards his office, but I cannot go in. I can't even go parallel to the door, it would probably set me off. The second I feel nervous or anxious, I will turn right around. Maybe I'll do it from the back, the sunny side. I remember I saw him, once, sitting at the window and he looked out before he sat down and I think he noticed me standing there, that was nice. But ever since it's been, like, jesus girl, what is the MATTER with you, that just seems so desperado, to need to see someone that much. But it's building up again, you know, and the phone calls are starting to come back so if it keeps me quiet, maybe the humiliation of seeing, oh god, I know that's what will happen, the blinds will be shut and he'll be on holiday. But maybe I won't do it, maybe I'll just pick up the cleaning and be happy I didn't make an *ss of myself. This is so hard, even just thinking about being a pest makes my body hurt. I can't go back like this, I can't. But I really really really want to know he's there, I really want to see him. And because I've been disliked and rejected and thought rude and stupid, I can't because it always hurts me. How awful.. I still feel so drawn, you know, like the moth to the flame. Always.
Posted by Damos on August 5, 2005, at 0:24:09
In reply to Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street, posted by Susan47 on August 4, 2005, at 19:42:59
Three quotes for you Susan, though I am loath to use others' words:
"We who lived in the concentration camps can remember the men who walked thoughout the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken away form a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given circumstance, to choose one's own way." Victor Frankel
"Nothing can make you feel inferior without your consent" Eleanor Roosavelt
"They cannot take away our self-respect if we do not give it to them." Mahatma Gandhi
You are better than these feelings, and so much more than these feelings, and your sense of self doesn't depend on his approval. Not now, not ever. The phone calls, the need to see and be seen by him are a pattern, a pattern of pain, a pattern you seek out because of it's very familiarity. If you can break the pattern just once, you'll never look back and you'll wonder how you stayed stuck here for so long. He had his chance to SEE you and he missed it completely and messed it up royally. HE is NOT going to HELP you. So it's your choice, a horribly painful choice, but one only you can make. Do you want to be the strong, beautiful, incredible woman everyone at babble knows you can be?
You know I love you Susan, you also know a large part of my story. Well Katie's mum is my equivalent of your T. 18 years it took me to break that pattern of belief and behaviour, and you if anyone knows how far I've come in the short time I've been at babble. You can do this. Take your life back. You have no idea how many people are cheering you on at this very moment because they've seen you come close before and they want so much for you to make it, and they know what you're capable of and how much you've helped them. You can do this. And when you do, all the amazing passion and love that's there inside you will be set free.
Yeah I know it's all easy fot me to say. So feel free to scream !@%$^&^$##@~%^$#%$ off Damos as many times as it takes, rage at me if it helps. No matter what you choose or what happens tomorrow, I love you Susan and you'll always be a very special and cherished friend.
Posted by rabidreader on August 5, 2005, at 13:48:58
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » Susan47, posted by Damos on August 5, 2005, at 0:24:09
Dear Susan47,
I think what Damos has to say about people wanting to see you succeed is so true! You have been such a huge help to me in just a short time, Susan, I don't know where I would be with everything if it weren't for you. You've been great about getting me through my T leaving, and my feelings for him.
This shows to me that you have a lot of inner strength and can use this strength for your own good. I think it's great that you can go to the dry cleaner's without feeling so awful. But is it wise to put yourslef in ANY situation where you might see him? Is there a possibility that you might just need to avoid ALL of those situations? I'm only asking because I care, and I want you to feel like you have your life back and not quake in your boots when you get to an area where he might be. It might be a pain, but for a while it might work to thoroughly avoid him in every way.
Let me know what you think. I care about how you're doing, and worry about you.
Posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 14:11:51
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » Susan47, posted by Damos on August 5, 2005, at 0:24:09
Posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 14:30:39
In reply to Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street, posted by Susan47 on August 4, 2005, at 19:42:59
Susan - I would think that the only thing that you need to focus on for some time is to find a way to feel good about yourself and like yourself better.
Everything else, will automatically fall into place a while later.
So whenever you get side tracked with other issues, please remember to focus on the root problem for all the issues.
Orchid (former Pinkeye)
Posted by damos on August 6, 2005, at 20:30:46
In reply to That was incredible Damos !!. (nm) » Damos, posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 14:11:51
She just needs to find a way to believe it. Hoping, hoping, hoping.
Posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:13:42
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » Susan47, posted by Damos on August 5, 2005, at 0:24:09
You're such a nice person, Damos, thanks for your cheers. You're right about a lot of things, but what do you do when you think you're stupid-looking? Stop looking into mirrors and at photos, I think that's the only thing. Concentrate on the other person, I like to do that, that comes naturally to me now, more and more naturally, lately, to look at someone directly in the eye(s) and care only about them, now. People like that and then they like me and I don't feel so bad .. sounds like a song ... I wish he didn't have this control, and I wish he hadn't used it the way he did, letting me feel so much worse about myself, making it happen, really, he was a putz and I just have to know that in my heart. But I do wish he'd had courage, courage to like me, courage to care deeply about me and courage to tell me. Or maybe not courage. Maybe just.. the desire to do that. Like I said before, one day it'll all be clear, in that moment of clarity that's supposed to happen with dying.
I dreamed the other night that I won some stupid kind of prize, I didn't know I'd entered.. the prize which was worth some million dollars, was a huge stuffed cooked salmon. It was worthless, to me. To someone it was a million dollars' worth of fish. I won all these other things too, elegant, lovely furniture .. and you know what? I had no house nor apartment to put it into. There was all this lovely stuff, with no place to go.
That was a meaningful dream. But it hurts to say I dreamt it. Because I think it was about my ex-T. How what you want isn't always what you really need, what looks good to someone else might be garbage to you .. but then, it was a salmon. It wasn't garbage. I love salmon. Salmon is good for you, and it tastes good, too. And the furniture was elegant, shapely, the sort of thing I like .. just no place for any of it to go. Does anybody who's read this far know what it means?
Posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:17:53
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street, posted by rabidreader on August 5, 2005, at 13:48:58
Hi, I do think you're right. But I'm still having a lot of trouble with the concept of falling off a cliff if I completely let go.
I came to depend on the thought of him being there for me. My phoning made it all very present and real to me, that he was there. The voice on the other end, although recorded, assured me that someone would always eventually hear me. I know that isn't true now, he's told me often enough ... but I loved him dearly, he has no idea how much, and how deeply, I felt about him.. does anyone else know how humiliating, how crushing it is to love someone who doesn't know you exist? Who doesn't care, doesn't want to see you or hear you or know of your existence in the world, even. It's stupid. I'm an idiot for feeling this way, for allowing this to happen to me.
Posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:22:19
In reply to Feeling good about yourself » Susan47, posted by orchid on August 5, 2005, at 14:30:39
Orchid .. oh Orchid, how I LOVE your new name, so much nicer, so clean and white (no I'm not singing about Edelweiss...), soft, fragrant .. no, orchids have no scent. Freesias, they're the flower with the most heavy, romantic scent of all, but they don't look as soft or as beautiful as the orchid. The orchid gives the impression of being very fragile, but it isn't. It's strong, and sexy, and not afraid to show itself.
In deference to your new identity, Orchid, Welcome to Babble ...!
Posted by Damos on August 8, 2005, at 0:34:11
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » Damos, posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:13:42
Me? a nice person - yeah right. And you're more than welcome. Hang on a mo, did you say I was right about a lot of things. Better print this out and show my boss that'll put the wind up him :-)
As to what you do when you're stupid looking, a) I don't believe that about you for a second and b) what you described are pretty much my normal coping strategies. Not looking in the mirror can make shaving really difficult. Reminds me of a girl I used to work with a long time ago. She brought her new born in and the very first thing she said was; "Nobody is to call him cute cause I read somewhere it means ugly but interesting, okay?"
Looking people in the eyes is a great start, they are the windows to the soul afterall. And of course, just like you, they want to be seen.
Sorry to go off on a tangent here but I read somewhere that the traditional Zulu greating is: SAWU BONA (I see you), to which is replied SIKHONA (I am here). The order is important because it is their belief that until you see me, I don't exist. It all comes from the spirit of UBUNTU and the ZULU saying UMUNTU NGUMUNTU NAGABANTU ( A person is a person because of other people).
So SAWU BONA Susan.
I'm sorry he didn't do things differently too. Buddhists believe you can have many small enlightenments on the path to true and lasting enlightenment - moments of clarity if you will. Honestly, right at this moment I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit.
Okay here goes with the dream stuff curtesy of http://www.dreammoods.com
To see salmon denotes determination. You are able to overcome adversity & achieve success. Alternatively, it suggests you are comfortable with expressing your emotions & dealing with them.
- Good so far.
To dream you are eating fish, symbolises your beliefs, spirituality, luck & nourishment. It is food for the soul.
- Good too, you even said some of that yourself - see how clever you are.
To see furniture in your dreams, represents how you feel about yourself & your family. It refers to your relationships with others & how they fit into your life.
- Sounds reasonable
To dream you are moving furniture, indicates you are going out of your way to please others. Also you may be changing your ways & trying to reevaluate your relationships/attitudes
- Given it was new furniture in a style that you like I'd say that's rather good too. So going out a limb here, maybe furniture being what's inside the house represents the change that's taking place within and your true self starting to express itself - beauty, elegance, etc. I think it's good Susan, I really think it's good. I don't think the not having anywhere to put it matters right now. I think what matters is that you are receiving the things you need to fill the new home that you will create. Kinda like "I'll know the perfect place when I see it" and these are the things I know I will want there.
Posted by Damos on August 8, 2005, at 0:50:12
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » Damos, posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:13:42
Oh - Oh - Bing, Bing, Bing.
Take a look at the bottom of your post, where you're worried about not having anywhere to put all these beautifull things. Then go back up to the top and see what you said about yourself. Damn Susan, I'm having trouble typing through the tears. The answer is there, right there. It's so incredible and beautiful and amazing and sh*t I'm bawling my eyes out for you. It's all there in that one incredible post. You are so amazing!!!!!!!!!!! You don't yet see yourself as a place where all these beautifull things belong. But you are, your are, you've just proved it beyond any doubt, right there in that post. You are so close, can't sit still I'm so excited for you. YAY fo you, YAY for you. Gonna have to do a happy dance for you. If I could kiss you rigfht now I would and hug you so tight. This is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
Posted by Tamar on August 8, 2005, at 3:26:59
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » Damos, posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:13:42
What Damos said about not having a house or apartment in which to put your furniture… If you dream about a house it’s usually about your mind or your self. So I think if you dream you have no house it’s about feeling very insecure in your identity. No wonder you feel you can’t be seen.
If you were a house, what kind of house would you be? Which room would be the biggest? What would you keep in the attic?
I imagine you as a palace with a huge ballroom, where you can have big parties and dance the night away with all the people who care about you.
(((((Susan)))))
Posted by orchid on August 8, 2005, at 14:12:39
In reply to Re: Feeling good about yourself » orchid, posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:22:19
Posted by orchid on August 8, 2005, at 17:49:39
In reply to Re: Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street » rabidreader, posted by Susan47 on August 7, 2005, at 23:17:53
Susan
You DID NOT love HIM. You loved the idea of him, which you painted out of a mirror. It was not him you loved.
Remember this and it will save you. The supposedly beautiful person you loved - it was you who had the capacity to draw that beautiful painting on a perhaps plain person.
Do you see that it is you who is beautiful if you had the capacity to visualize such a powerful and beautiful person? And not HIM?
It is you who has the power, the beauty, and the intelligence - but you are wrongly attributing it to him. And now you are chasing it almost like your are chasing your own shadow and you will never get it, because it is your shadow which you are seeking elsewhere.
I think you really are a beautiful person. And you are very incorrectly, assuming yourself to be ugly and the other persons to be beautiful, and wishing to merge with them, while all along, your beauty is the one that has been the guiding thing.
Posted by sunny10 on August 9, 2005, at 8:52:54
In reply to It is not about him !!! It is about you. » Susan47, posted by orchid on August 8, 2005, at 17:49:39
I remember saying something similar to this months ago.
Not only are you the one who loves, but you are the one with the power. But just like your dream, be careful what you use your power FOR. You may wind up with stuff you can't use right now. And it's stuff you would ordinarily be happy to have.
You are powerful enough to create a love for a person who doesn't exist, but you hurt yourself that way. Now use that some power to realize that you created the person you love- the person you loved wasn't your T. He just wore brown jackets like your T, he looked like your T.
But it was your own imagination you loved.
My advice would be to start writing those books, Susan.
You have a lot of powerful characters in your imagination. Use them to your benefit. Don't let them use you.
As always, I love you.
Posted by Damos on August 9, 2005, at 17:06:04
In reply to It is not about him !!! It is about you. » Susan47, posted by orchid on August 8, 2005, at 17:49:39
Posted by Damos on August 9, 2005, at 17:07:06
In reply to Re: It is not about him !!! It is about you., posted by sunny10 on August 9, 2005, at 8:52:54
Posted by Susan47 on August 9, 2005, at 21:54:03
In reply to Yesterday I walked down my ex-T's street - long » Susan47, posted by Damos on August 8, 2005, at 0:34:11
Sikhona .. and thank you. I'm re-visiting the meaning of the dream ...
Posted by Susan47 on August 9, 2005, at 21:59:54
In reply to I second that » Susan47, posted by Tamar on August 8, 2005, at 3:26:59
God, you people are all so kind. Okay, y'all have lots of good stuff to say. What kind of house am I? I'm surrounded by lots of green grass and trees. I'm yellow with white trim, or white with yellow trim I'm not sure. I have a big, welcoming front entrance. A place where you can sit and feel the breeze in the early evening. In the back there's a little gazebo, and there's a lot of roses everywhere, climbing, fragrant ones.
But the inside isn't ready. What sort of house are you, Tamar?
Posted by Susan47 on August 9, 2005, at 22:15:29
In reply to Re: It is not about him !!! It is about you., posted by sunny10 on August 9, 2005, at 8:52:54
You're both probably right. I just want that real person to exist soooo much. The fight to make him real was too huge, though. He didn't want to be real. Not for me, in any case. Hopefully, one day, someone else will. Thanks, girls, for all the kind thoughts. I think you're correct. I'll get there, eventually. I know there's been times when the ex-T really let me know I was unwelcome, I know there's been times I let him know what a disappointment he's been for allowing me to carry all the guilt and all the sadness, the feelings of ugliness and unacceptability, all because he was unimaginative, unaccepting, unwilling, and jaded. That's the part that hurt the most. Feeling that he didn't trust me, that he thought things about me that were unkind, and also untrue. Knowing that I wasn't appreciated, that he'd just as well he never met me. So maybe it wasn't true, but he didn't say it wasn't, he didn't help me get to a place where I felt I was worth it. Whatever "it" is. Transference.. my transference was "too strong". I remember he said, "The way you are, the way I am .. " then something about it's not working. So I thought he was talking about how horrible I've been, how I've just been relentless in requesting more of his time. And I still think he might have meant that. But it doesn't matter, because no matter what he meant, he shouldn't have done that. Either way, he isn't who I wanted him to be. Which hurts, because I'd take him no matter who he was .. for a while. See, at least I can say that last part.
Posted by sunny10 on August 10, 2005, at 8:51:31
In reply to Orchid and » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on August 9, 2005, at 22:15:29
Posted by orchid on August 10, 2005, at 15:28:21
In reply to Orchid and » sunny10, posted by Susan47 on August 9, 2005, at 22:15:29
The reason why you perhaps felt the intense need for him to be right is perhaps you mistakenly identified yourself with him too much.. and thought that for you to change, he has to be what you thought of him to be.
But it need not be so. You can change, irrespective of what he is. You both are different persons, and not one.
This is the end of the thread.
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