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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 8:43:22
Hi everyone, first of all I changed my name because I was having trouble signing on. I was using the name Jazzed or signing Jazzy, now fairywings - prettier, huh?
Anyway, this is my post, and I would appreciate any help you can offer:
A few weeks ago my T was talking about crying, I don't even remember in what context, but after the appt., when I thought about it, I realized I hadn't really cried in about 2 years.
At my last appt. with my T, I told him that I don't feel my emotions as strongly as I used to, and that I hadn't had a good cry in about 2 years. Granted, in the last 2 1/2 years my dad died, four months later my son was born, and four months after that my mom died somewhat unexpectedly. Then we sold our house, moved, and a few other things happened along the way. It's been a tough 2 1/2 years.
As far as the not feeling things as strongly, My T said that I have trouble expressing my anger and that I tend to avoid situations which make me uncomfortable, which is true. He said that not crying at all wasn't healthy, and that although you don't want to cry all the time, and that sometimes it's difficult to cry, it's healthy to cry.
In the last few minutes of our appt., he said that I tend to dissociate from my feelings, and went on to say that "dissociating is kind of schizophrenic". I felt REALLY threatened by that, esp. given my past history as a teenager with a shrink who tried to control me with medications and saying things that left me feeling very out of control of my life.
I'm totally freaked out by labeling, using words that pertain to major mental illnesses, and telling me I do things that I don't think I do. I don't separate from my feelings, or my body, in any way. I still feel everything, just not as strongly. I don't give my feelings much thought, they just are what they are, and I accept that. I am perfectly able to function every day, and I deal with what I have to deal with.
Am I over reacting? Is it possible he had a point in saying I dissociate, and was it fair to then say "dissociation is kind of schizophrenic"? My diagnosis is Anxiety NOS, and I have ADD - inattentive. I'm so afraid he's looking for some major mental illness, and that makes me feel very threatened.
Any opinions or suggestions?
Thanks
FW
Posted by Dinah on July 24, 2005, at 9:41:36
In reply to Feeling Threatened *might trigger*, posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 8:43:22
Dissociating is *not* schizophrenic, and I'm surprised your therapist thought so.
It's a natural human coping mechanism that some people tend to overuse once they find it works. Sometimes they overuse it to the point that it becomes a problem in their lives. When that happens, it's helpful to work on it in therapy.
What he *might* have meant is that certain personality disorders like schizoid and schizotypal may arguably use dissociation of the feelings to excess.
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 11:31:46
In reply to Re: Feeling Threatened *might trigger* » fairywings, posted by Dinah on July 24, 2005, at 9:41:36
> Dissociating is *not* schizophrenic, and I'm surprised your therapist thought so.
>
> It's a natural human coping mechanism that some people tend to overuse once they find it works. Sometimes they overuse it to the point that it becomes a problem in their lives. When that happens, it's helpful to work on it in therapy.
>
> What he *might* have meant is that certain personality disorders like schizoid and schizotypal may arguably use dissociation of the feelings to excess.Thanks Dinah,
My husband thinks he was intentionally trying to trigger me, to get me to react to him, to express my feelings.
Isn't dissociating kind of splitting, separating yourself from your feelings, developing alternate selves to deal with pain? I don't do any of that. I can't separate from my feelings in any way, and I don't have other selves - like a younger self or anything.
Maybe I don't fully understand the concept of dissociation. I've looked it up, but I don't think it applies to me.
FW/Jazzy
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 12:27:48
In reply to Feeling Threatened *might trigger*, posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 8:43:22
> I changed my name because I was having trouble signing on.
Hmm, the problem the other night seems to have messed up your registration information. I think because the last post before it happened was from you (*not* that it was your fault or anything).
Still, it might be possible to get Jazzed working again if you'd prefer...
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on July 24, 2005, at 13:16:44
In reply to Re: Feeling Threatened *might trigger* » Dinah, posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 11:31:46
Hi jazzy/fairwings. I love both names.
Dissociation is actually a continuum. It can range from something like what happens when you are driving and you suddenly realize you've gone a few miles and don't remember them...to feeling a bit numb, to actually floating up out of your body..and everything in between.
Like Dinah said, it's a coping mechanism--not necessarily an adaptive one all the time, but definitely had its uses at times. Even as an adult..think about if you ever had to face an emergency...did you just act and then feel the fear later? That is dissociation, too.
It's terribly irresponsible of your T to link it to schizophrenia. Some folks use the term "schizophrenic" to mean when someone splits into two or more. That's really not a proper use of the term anymore, since it confuses two mental disorders, neither of which I've seen evidence in your posts that you have.
gg
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 13:41:04
In reply to Re: trouble signing on » fairywings, posted by Dr. Bob on July 24, 2005, at 12:27:48
>
> Hmm, the problem the other night seems to have messed up your registration information. I think because the last post before it happened was from you (*not* that it was your fault or anything).
>
> Still, it might be possible to get Jazzed working again if you'd prefer...
>
> BobThanks Dr. Bob, but I think I'll stick with fairywings, it's prettier, don't you think?! LOL I'm sure you have an opinion! ; ) I appreciate it though.
I don't know what happened that I couldn't sign on, I thought maybe I was blocked or something. I just couldn't get my password to work for the past couple of days. Sorry my registration info was messed up.
FW/Jazzy/Jazzed
Hmmmmm....maybe I do dissociate! LOL
Posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 14:04:18
In reply to Feeling Threatened *might trigger*, posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 8:43:22
FW, I can understand you being upset. My T. has helped me understand when and how I disassociate, what that is...and he's never characterized it as schizotype, schizophrenic, etc.
Like gg said, I've often done things like miss my exit on the highway. I have also lost chunks of time. A few times I have SI'd when disassociating. I like to call it a "fugue state." Sometimes it is comforting, sometimes I get agitated.
If you can talk to your T. about this, I would. Please take good care.
spalding
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 14:05:41
In reply to Re: Feeling Threatened *might trigger* » fairywings, posted by gardenergirl on July 24, 2005, at 13:16:44
> Hi jazzy/fairwings. I love both names.
>
> Dissociation is actually a continuum. It can range from something like what happens when you are driving and you suddenly realize you've gone a few miles and don't remember them...to feeling a bit numb, to actually floating up out of your body..and everything in between.
>
> Like Dinah said, it's a coping mechanism--not necessarily an adaptive one all the time, but definitely had its uses at times. Even as an adult..think about if you ever had to face an emergency...did you just act and then feel the fear later? That is dissociation, too.
>
> It's terribly irresponsible of your T to link it to schizophrenia. Some folks use the term "schizophrenic" to mean when someone splits into two or more. That's really not a proper use of the term anymore, since it confuses two mental disorders, neither of which I've seen evidence in your posts that you have.
>
> gg
Thanks GG,You are so sweet! Both to like both names, and to say you don't see any evidence of the two mental disorders mentioned above. I guess, given the continuum, I might dissociate when I get lost in my thoughts, listening to music, that kind of thing, but I never feel numb, or out of my body.
My husband told me to ask my T what he was trying to elicit from me when he said that I dissociate, and when he said dissociation is "kind of schizophreic". He really thinks my T was trying to elicit a response from me. My T said I had trouble expressing anger, and I had just told him I wasn't feeling things as strongly as I used to, so maybe he was trying to get under my skin!? If so, he certainly succeeded! If so he's brilliant and if not, well, then there's a problem! Our best sessions have been where he's pissed me off about one thing or another, and it's been kind of every other week, so maybe next week will be a good session?
I hope he was trying to get a reaction, and not being irresponsible. I'll let you know what happens.
FW
Posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 14:10:18
In reply to Re: Feeling Threatened *might trigger*, posted by spalding on July 24, 2005, at 14:04:18
>
> If you can talk to your T. about this, I would. Please take good care.
>
> spaldingThanks spaulding,
You can be sure that I will talk to him about it at my next appt. He really triggered a huge response from me because when I was a teen, my 1st psychiatrist threw around labels in an attempt to make me feel sick. Not where I want to ever go again!
I guess I shouldn't really get upset until I understand where he was going with it.
Thanks,
FW
Posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 12:41:20
In reply to Feeling Threatened *might trigger*, posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 8:43:22
I don't cry anymore either. My psych says it's a symptom of my depression. I'm not the sad type of depressed, I'm the apathetic type.
A couple of weeks ago when I got some bad news about a friend I cried. It was the first time in a couple of years. It surprised me 'cause I didn't think I still could.
But it was *very* bad news.
Dissociating? I call it a survival mechanism. I also call it 'tuning out' because I can control coming out of it.
Are you overreacting? Maybe a wee bit. But it also seems he is overreacting about your symptoms.
Posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 14:39:04
In reply to Re: Feeling Threatened *might trigger* » fairywings, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 12:41:20
I'm really sorry about your friend, and how it was so difficult for you. It does hurt to feel sometimes, doesn't it?
My T is having me read The Courage to Heal, and if he didn't do anything else for me, I owe him for this. I am feeling things I never knew I had inside me before, and realizing how much I was abused, more emotionally than anything else, and how I've minimalized it all these years. I can see how it stifled so much of me, and now maybe I can do something about it.
It's a really hard book to read, but worth it.
I feel very much near tears when reading parts of it, which is good I guess.FW/Jazzy
Posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 16:16:03
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger* » AuntieMel, posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 14:39:04
My abuse was mostly emotional, too. I think that is the hardest kind in many ways, the hardest to accept that it actually *was* abuse.
I spent weeks and weeks of therapy, just listing one after the other of incidents. No discussion, just listing. No emotion, either, just listing.
Each one alone would be weird and rude, but tolerable. The sheer numbers of them is what made it damaging.
But it's over and I don't have to deal with it anymore. And as predicted he died a lonley old man. But that's not my fault.
Posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 17:09:12
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger*, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 16:16:03
> My abuse was mostly emotional, too. I think that is the hardest kind in many ways, the hardest to accept that it actually *was* abuse.
>
> I spent weeks and weeks of therapy, just listing one after the other of incidents. No discussion, just listing. No emotion, either, just listing.
>
> Each one alone would be weird and rude, but tolerable. The sheer numbers of them is what made it damaging.
>
> But it's over and I don't have to deal with it anymore. And as predicted he died a lonley old man. But that's not my fault.Are you my sister? My dad was my primary abuser, and he died a lonely old man too. The numbers are what killed my spirit and self esteem too. I was never good enough, never pretty enough, never smart enough, never worth his time, never worth his love, etc.... He was never kind to me, never told me he loved me, never hugged me, he would just stare at me like I was an idiot, a compliment from him was him telling me I was kooky or goofy, etc... I guess I minimized emotional abuse because physical abuse seems more obviously abusive, I don't know. My mom withheld love, and used it as a weapon. She shamed me all the time for things I didn't do, but made me feel like I did because she blamed me for them, stuff like that. My doctor was abusive too, and my parents allowed it.
I just have to work through all of it, and get on with life. Glad the abuse is over, and I hope to never repeat it!
FW/Jazzy
Posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 17:45:32
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger* » AuntieMel, posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 17:09:12
mine did it the other way.
To me: You're so smart, why can't you be studious like your sister?
To her: You study hard, too bad you aren't as smart as your sister.My sister and I grew up hating (ok, strongly disliking) each other. We later learned to point the anger where it belonged and get along great.
He also gave us some pretty good belt whippings. That's when I first learned not to cry. He would keep up until the kid cried, but I was too stubborn. <grin>
And cold. If he deigned to let a kid (even the grandkids) on his lap, he acted like it was an alien, put up with it for a minute or so and then he was done. Or he'd play for a couple of and then abrubtly stop. And get angry if the kid didn't understand 'stop' and wanted to keep on.
My poor mom was just as afraid of him as we were. She spent years in and out of hospitals for depression, but finally they divorced and she got better.
I don't mention the physical abuse as much because it didn't leave the same scars.
Posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 18:09:48
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger*, posted by AuntieMel on July 25, 2005, at 17:45:32
> mine did it the other way.
>
> To me: You're so smart, why can't you be studious like your sister?
> To her: You study hard, too bad you aren't as smart as your sister.We got a lot of the jealousy game too, as well as my mom. He remarried later in life, and played the games with me, trying to make me jealous of her kids, and treated her grandchild better than my kids, to try to make me jealous. It's funny, when I quit responding, he quit doing it, but only with me because I was the only one who figured it out. Of course it took me well over 20 years to do that, but.....
Mine did a LOT of mean teasing too. With the kids and the pets. And pitted us all against each other.
> He also gave us some pretty good belt whippings. That's when I first learned not to cry. He would keep up until the kid cried, but I was too stubborn. <grin>
Yeah, they think they're so smart trying to get us to cry, good thing they couldn't see the inside, huh?
>
> And cold. If he deigned to let a kid (even the grandkids) on his lap, he acted like it was an alien, put up with it for a minute or so and then he was done. Or he'd play for a couple of and then abrubtly stop. And get angry if the kid didn't understand 'stop' and wanted to keep on.Same thing with my dad. Very, very cold. I'm glad your mom was able to divorce and recover. Other than the mother, it sounds like we had the same father. My mom just got to be more and more bitter. Can't blame her.
FW
Posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2005, at 8:55:53
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger* » AuntieMel, posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 18:09:48
Well, there's the answer for your therapist!
It's the same thing my sister said before my father's funeral. "If anyone thinks it's strange that we don't cry, tough. He *taught* us that."
Posted by fairywings on July 26, 2005, at 10:07:50
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger*, posted by AuntieMel on July 26, 2005, at 8:55:53
> Well, there's the answer for your therapist!
>
> It's the same thing my sister said before my father's funeral. "If anyone thinks it's strange that we don't cry, tough. He *taught* us that."None of us cried or mourned much either. Sad, but true
Posted by happyflower on July 26, 2005, at 13:31:36
In reply to Re: Feeling Threatened *might trigger* » Dinah, posted by fairywings on July 24, 2005, at 11:31:46
>
> My husband thinks he was intentionally trying to trigger me, to get me to react to him, to express my feelings.Jazzy,
I totally agree with your DH, I think he is trying to get a rise in you! It is working, right? lol But I still think you should give him both barrels for manipulating the situation! Go for it! :) Let him have your anger!
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 26, 2005, at 23:20:35
In reply to Re: Update *might trigger* » AuntieMel, posted by fairywings on July 25, 2005, at 14:39:04
> My T is having me read The Courage to Heal, and if he didn't do anything else for me, I owe him for this.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
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