![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 13:58:25
I was telling my therapist that the main issue I wanted to work on was my lack of continuity. The choppiness in my life. Not exactly a lack of memory, tho there's a bit of that, but more like... Well, I know that I did or said or experienced something, but all the meaning of it is just gone. All the feelings, all the meaning. I'm not really sure of the time frame. Things are jumbled. I know I seem the same to others day to day, and I suppose if you asked me my opinion of something, I'd give the same answer. But in other ways it's like each day, maybe even less than a day, stands on its own.
My therapist isn't sure how to help me with that, but he thinks it has to do with my overuse of dissociation. So he wanted me to try to *not* fall into a forgetting sleep.
I immediately went home, felt the urge to hurt myself, simultaneously felt groggy, and fell asleep at my desk.
Other than knowing I felt extremely anxious, I'm not altogether sure why I was feeling upset enough to necessitate a forgetting sleep.
My body's way of saying "Oh no you don't. I'm not giving that up!"?
I don't know how long it was, maybe only ten or fifteen minutes.
My head hurts. And I still feel groggy. And I still feel a bit anxious, and like I want to hurt myself.
I just don't understand myself sometimes. :(
Posted by Tamar on June 28, 2005, at 14:22:33
In reply to Failed my homework assignment already. Triggery., posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 13:58:25
> I was telling my therapist that the main issue I wanted to work on was my lack of continuity. The choppiness in my life. Not exactly a lack of memory, tho there's a bit of that, but more like... Well, I know that I did or said or experienced something, but all the meaning of it is just gone. All the feelings, all the meaning. I'm not really sure of the time frame. Things are jumbled. I know I seem the same to others day to day, and I suppose if you asked me my opinion of something, I'd give the same answer. But in other ways it's like each day, maybe even less than a day, stands on its own.
That's interesting. It reminds me of a TV programme I saw once about people who had damaged the hippocampus (I think that was it). But there were distinct differences from what you're describing. I think those people had profound difficulties with short term memory...
> My therapist isn't sure how to help me with that, but he thinks it has to do with my overuse of dissociation. So he wanted me to try to *not* fall into a forgetting sleep.
>
> I immediately went home, felt the urge to hurt myself, simultaneously felt groggy, and fell asleep at my desk.
>
> Other than knowing I felt extremely anxious, I'm not altogether sure why I was feeling upset enough to necessitate a forgetting sleep.
>
> My body's way of saying "Oh no you don't. I'm not giving that up!"?Very likely, I would think. After all, if you've just considered ceasing your reliance on sleep and dissociation as a means of coping, without any alternative to try, you might understandably be worried about how you will cope.
> I don't know how long it was, maybe only ten or fifteen minutes.
>
> My head hurts. And I still feel groggy. And I still feel a bit anxious, and like I want to hurt myself.I know there are lots of reasons for wanting to self harm. And people use it in different ways, and I'm not sure how you use it. I wonder, though, if the inclination at the moment is about protecting yourself from the feelings that might emerge if you were to stop dissociating.
> I just don't understand myself sometimes. :(
I suspect your therapist is right about the connection between choppiness and dissociation. Have you talked about what might happen if you reduce your dissociation?
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 17:05:28
In reply to Re: Failed my homework assignment already. Triggery. » Dinah, posted by Tamar on June 28, 2005, at 14:22:33
When he suggested that I try reducing my reliance on my forgetting sleep, if I found the discontinuity in my life unpleasant, I asked if I shouldn't have some other coping mechanism on hand before I tried. Brush up on my anxiety reducing skills, etc.
He said that I just needed to learn to tolerate pain like everyone else because trying to avoid it was causing me more trouble than bearing the pain would.
I suppose he's right, but...
I dunno.
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 17:33:40
In reply to Failed my homework assignment already. Triggery., posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 13:58:25
I called him and made an appointment specifically to talk about the confused and jumbled thoughts immediately before and after my nap. Thinking they had some significance. :(
As if confused and jumbled thoughts were ever worth discussing in the light of day.
And to make matters worse, I left a voice mail explaining some of the confused thoughts, and now he wants to talk about them too. They're already seeming stupid, senseless, and fantastical, after a nap and some Frova. Even though I'm still a bit fuzzy.
I really hate how I fall apart when I get upset.
Posted by Tamar on June 28, 2005, at 18:45:00
In reply to Re: Failed my homework assignment already. Trigger » Tamar, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 17:05:28
> When he suggested that I try reducing my reliance on my forgetting sleep, if I found the discontinuity in my life unpleasant, I asked if I shouldn't have some other coping mechanism on hand before I tried. Brush up on my anxiety reducing skills, etc.
Good question!
> He said that I just needed to learn to tolerate pain like everyone else because trying to avoid it was causing me more trouble than bearing the pain would.
>
> I suppose he's right, but...He may well be right. But where do you start? And to be honest, I really think there are different levels of emotional pain, just like there are different levels of physical pain. Tolerating pain is all very well if it's tolerable. But if it's intolerable, people need to find ways of controlling it.
I suspect that dissociating and self harm are often ways of controlling intolerable pain. Once these techniques are learned they can be applied to any pain, including pain that you might be able to tolerate. I don't know, though, whether you can learn to ration your use of dissociation so that you only use it for intolerable pain. I would think you'd need to focus on a very specific but minor pain and practice facing it without dissociating. Or something like that.
I don't know if I'm making any sense. But I hope the grogginess and sleepiness get better soon.
Tamar
Posted by Tamar on June 28, 2005, at 18:49:49
In reply to I'm an idiot, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 17:33:40
> I called him and made an appointment specifically to talk about the confused and jumbled thoughts immediately before and after my nap. Thinking they had some significance. :(
Maybe they do.
> As if confused and jumbled thoughts were ever worth discussing in the light of day.
Maybe unjumbling them would make sense of them.
> And to make matters worse, I left a voice mail explaining some of the confused thoughts, and now he wants to talk about them too. They're already seeming stupid, senseless, and fantastical, after a nap and some Frova. Even though I'm still a bit fuzzy.
I would reckon that stupid, senseless and fantastical thoughts are perfect material for therapy. If we had only rational, uplifting and innovative thoughts we probably wouldn't need therapy!
> I really hate how I fall apart when I get upset.
((((Dinah))))
Hang on in there.
Posted by fallsfall on June 28, 2005, at 20:24:21
In reply to Failed my homework assignment already. Triggery., posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 13:58:25
You are very hard on yourself, Dinah. The homework is a goal - not a mandate.
You learned something important today. You learned that it will not be easy to give up your forgetting sleeps. That is important information. You also learned that your forgetting sleeps reduce your anxiety and make it so that you aren't as prone to hurt yourself. Either that or the thought of losing your forgetting sleeps makes you anxious and want to hurt yourself. Going through things like this is how you will figure these things out. It is a process. Each time you try to avoid a forgetting sleep you will get more information about them. This is very important. This is progress.
Understanding yourself will take time. It is a process. I think you are doing fine.
Posted by Jazzed on June 29, 2005, at 6:55:41
In reply to Re: You aren't an idiot » Dinah, posted by Tamar on June 28, 2005, at 18:49:49
I agree, you aren't an idiot, and I'm glad you made the call and talked about the feelings BEFORE you had time to think about it and back out. Now you can talk about it, even if you don't think it matters in the light of day. I hope a lot of good comes from it for you. I'm really glad that, for whatever reason, you didn't go with the urge to hurt yourself. Please don't let yourself have a set back like that.
When's the appt? Keep us posted and let us know how it's going.
Jazzy
Posted by rubenstein on June 30, 2005, at 11:11:03
In reply to Re: You aren't an idiot » Tamar, posted by Jazzed on June 29, 2005, at 6:55:41
you are strong to fight off the urge to hurt yourself. That is so hard because at least for me it is such an easy way for me to feel better and escape my problems. Do take care, I am thinking of you :)
rubenstein
Posted by 10derHeart on June 30, 2005, at 11:32:33
In reply to Re: Failed my homework assignment already. Triggery. » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on June 28, 2005, at 20:24:21
I really like what falls said. This is such a big deal for you, Dinah, to even have such a goal and to be willing to try to make such a change. I think maybe you aren't giving it the time and/or weight it's due. Letting the initial frustration get to you? Boy, do I know that scenario.
It will be another process within a process, so to speak. My guts says it could lead to something pretty deep. But I imagine in the meantime it could be really scary.
I'm happy you did not hurt yourself. Any time any of us don't act on those various urges (for me, it can be as seemingly silly or mundane as NOT eating an entire bag of chips...because one of my unhealthy coping things is to *abuse* food...often...daily...) we show strength and growth. I really believe that. (And, what you meant was more immediate and serious than overeating, I know that.)
Hang in there, Dinah. We see progress where you see failure. Perhaps the *lens* we're peering through is a bit clearer than the one you're using right now? Hugs, - 10der
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.