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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by frida on April 28, 2005, at 7:06:40
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
Daisy,
Hi, I don't think we have talked before, I've been here for some months now.I wanted to say that I feel so much with your posts and I'm always moved and would have liked to offer support before, but well here I am now :o)
I'm struggling with the same kinds of things in T at the moment,I could have written what you shared here...
I'm glad that you have such a wonderful, caring T. I'm lucky enough to have a wonderful and loving therapist too.
After a long time, now I'm beginning to verbalize (with much difficulty) the abuse I suffered at the hands of my father.
What makes me feel a little hopeless is to feel this certainty in my heart that I won't ever find real relief if I can't find the way to take my T back to those moments and feel her and have her repair the hurt,isolation of the moment-after..I've been telling her in writing that I want this, that I want to repair that hurt...In my fantasy, what I want is to take her to that moment, finally re-live it and feel the emotions I had to hold back then, and have her there with me. I want her to take care of me, to hold me in her arms and let me rest and cry the way I craved so much when I was a child. (When I was a child, after those moments, I would close my eyes and imagine someone like a mother would come, ask me how i am , and give me relief and just hold me and stroke my hair and keep me safe like that).
I really have a deep need for my T to do that. In fact, it's the only way I feel I could get real relief to what happened. I feel that I need to repair that kind of hurt...of holding back the pain for years, year after year, and of not having a relief in between...of not being able to share the feelings, to tell someone,to be comforted after such an extreme situation.I do want to be rescued by her.
I don't have any sexual feelings for her, my feelings are mother-like.
Fortunately now I feel she does care about me and she has told me that she does love me and I feel it.But I have that strong strong need of being rescued and having her in the moment after. I haven't talked about it totally, but she does know some...the other day when I was trying and struggling to talk, she said that maybe she should get me a bed and that I would need to stay there to feel safe. (she said it half-jokingly). I haven't told her directly about my need to repair the hurt of that moment, but I have told her that I feel the need to take her to the moment and have her there with me and feel her with me so I can change that.
If I could be honest about what I would like from my T..
I would like to be able to tell her what happened, the way I so needed to do after each of those moments happened and I would like her to put her arms around me and rock me as a child and tell me I'm ok and I'll be ok and just let me cry the tears I was punished for in the past, and help me let out the pain I've carried for years and help me feel true relief...I would like her to be there with me in the moment after I was hurt and just hold me and let me cry safely and make me feel I matter. I would like to be safe in her hug and feel free to feel the hurt I've held inside for so long.
I don't think it is totally impossible,
just typing all this brings tears to my eyes.I wanted to say I relate to all that you shared..
sorry if this doesn't make much sense. I just wanted to share that I feel that too and I know how painful it can be and how intense the need inside.lots of support to you,
Frida
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 28, 2005, at 8:13:11
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
I fantasize all the time of being in the hospital and my T coming to see me and holding my hand. And not charging me!!!!
I would NEVER tell him this of course and I'm pretty sure he would certainly dismiss it and sweep it under the rug.
I don't think all fantasies have to be resolved or worked out. Sometimes a fantasy is just a fantasy.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 8:51:56
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 28, 2005, at 8:13:11
I hope he wouldn't dismiss it or sweep it under a rug. Not all fantasies need to be analyzed, but it really helps us feel better about them if they are acknowledged without disgust and with a certain acceptance.
For those therapists who wouldn't answer with a "That's a lovely fantasy. What do you think it would mean to you if I did that?", I would hope they would at least smile warmly and say that it it was perfectly understandable to have a fantasy like that. :)
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 10:47:18
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by alexandra_k on April 28, 2005, at 5:03:08
It is OK to like hugs. Really.
I understand what you wrote and I think that was what I was trying to tell him. It would be easier for me to resolve and contain sexual feelings. These equate to adult feelings for me.
I think you should talk about all of this when you are ready. Your writings are beautiful. Take them in to her.
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 10:49:48
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by fallsfall on April 28, 2005, at 6:53:42
I did feel a lot calmer yesterday. Like the storm of emotions had passed and there were words to talk about it all. But my dreams last night were horrid -- my husband died but it was my therapist in the casket. I got up to do the eulogy and spoke nonsense and it was all hostile and awful and about me. I was glad to wake up.
Today I think I'll just say, "what do YOU want to talk about..."
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 10:55:40
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by frida on April 28, 2005, at 7:06:40
Frida,
I'm glad you pposted. Thanks for the support.
I know what you mean about the comfort "after" that you didn't get as a child. It is very powerful to tell a specific story, with lots of details, and then sit with the tears, feeling your therapist very near you, holding you emotionally. It is very healing. Mine gives me permission to cry long and hard because he knows this was so forbidden. And he knows that silence can feel threatening to me so he will just keep talking low and soft, telling me the rules are different here and that it needs to come out.
It is hard to tell the stories. But knowing you aren't alone as you relive it is so important. I hope you can do that for yourself.
Keep posting. It is nice to see so many new faces here.
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 11:00:45
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 28, 2005, at 8:13:11
I agree with you that sometimes a fantasy is just a fantasy. And I think there are a few that I wouldn't tell -- there is no need to tell.
I think the reason we talked about this one is that I was feeling really sad about the limitations of his support, like it wasn't "real" during a crisis like this because he couldn't physical come to the hospital with me, or stop by the house. He reminded me that I could carry him with me, and that I *did* have my phone, which is where he "lives" between sessions. :)
He asked the flip side of this question too: Have you ever fantasized about rescuing me? That was hard to answer...
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 11:01:54
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 8:51:56
I've said it before, but Dinah, you need to run a training program for therapists. It could be called,
"Everything your patients want you to know and more..."
Posted by Shortelise on April 28, 2005, at 11:53:01
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
This is so lovely, Daisy. That you said these things, that he responded as he did, that you felt ok about it.
ShortE
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 12:12:32
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
I used to have lots of rescue fantasies about my T. In some of my fantasies my T would accompany me through future crises; in other fantasies he would intervene in the past. I was quite ashamed of (and sometimes frightened by) these fantasies and didn’t want to talk about them. In fact, I kept trying to deny them whenever they entered my head, and that denial just made things even harder for me and caused me new problems. Oh yes, and I definitely had fantasies about rescuing him too.
Eventually I realised that denying my fantasies was effectively denying all kinds of powerful feelings. Being able to fantasise, and to explore what my fantasies meant, helped me to integrate my hopes and fears with reality.
I don’t think there’s any point in trying to impose reality when you want fantasy. Allow yourself the fantasy when you need it. Later, you can think about what it all means. I think they do need to be explored, though, if you want to move forward.
Eventually these fantasies should dissipate, but probably not if they’re not allowed some expression.
It sounds as if your T is very sympathetic to your need for fantasy. I’m sure you can trust him with all your fantasies.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:51:49
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
Hi Daisy,
Just wanted to give you a huge huge hug, and wanted to tell you that I am always so amazed at you and your T.
Both of you are so fantastic. By reading through your stories, I sometimes get what I have been missing since leaving my ex T. It helps me with a powerful satisfaction even though I am no where part of this. I am so glad your T is so understand and helpful.
Posted by rubenstein on April 28, 2005, at 12:53:58
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 12:12:32
Yes I have a rescue fantasy, and I have always been quite embarassed of it. In my fantasy I am hurting as uch on the outside as I am on the inside, he sees this and holds me and takes care of me until I am in the hospital or something. There he stays with me until I am better, both inside and out... it is so wierd, so crossing of boundaries, I am so sensitive to his boudnaries, perhaps that is why the fantasy exists...hmmm.
Thanks for the thread
rachel
Posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
In reply to Always Amazed » daisym, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:51:49
when the fantasies are of the patient rescuing the therapist?
It's easier for me to understand it the other way around.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:06:43
In reply to Re: What does it mean ..., posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
Not sure if this post is addressed to me - but in case it is, I think fantasies go both ways.. of being rescued and of rescuing. I think it caters to different parts of our personality. I have felt often quite at the same time, of being rescued by the same person and of trying to rescue that same exact person at the same exact time. I don't know how to make sense out of it too much - just that it exists.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 15:39:42
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
It's kind of sad for me to realize that I no more fantasize in this area than any other since I lost my ability to do it.
Any thoughts I have of therapy are more images than fantasies. Curling up like a kitten on my therapist's lap, blind pup and milky mother, head on therapist's knee, arms reached up like a toddler to be picked up and comforted. No scenarios or even thoughts seem to come with them.
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:59:32
In reply to Re: What does it mean ..., posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
Well, I said that I have fantasies of rescuing my T, so I can explain what it means for me.
For me, fantasies about rescuing my T have a number of different facets. In one respect, it’s a way of imagining rescuing myself. I have imagined my T in scenarios that are similar to my own past traumas. My fantasy of rescuing him indicated to me that I wished I could have found my own way out. Also, my fantasies were an expression of my desire to imagine that my T knew exactly what I was going through. And moreover, my fantasies allowed me to imagine that I was as important to him as he was to me: my rescuing him restored the emotional balance between us (but only in fantasy of course). Does that make sense?
I needed to work through these thoughts and feelings – and even though I’m no longer in therapy, I’m still working through it.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 16:24:19
In reply to Re: What does it mean ... » annierose, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:59:32
I have felt the exact same thing.
> Also, my fantasies were an expression of my desire to imagine that my T knew exactly what I was going through.
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:43:29
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by Shortelise on April 28, 2005, at 11:53:01
I'm sure you would have put it much more eloquently than I did -- I sort of blundered my way through it. But I'm glad he got it anyway.
It is worth the effort to be honest, at least most of the time.
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:45:44
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 12:12:32
Sounds like you had a good therapist. It is true that things that are hard to talk about are probably what we should be talking about. I'm glad you found sharing your fantasies to be helpful. I think I'm a ways away from getting it all worked out, but I sure would like to hurry things up!
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:48:43
In reply to Always Amazed » daisym, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:51:49
Thanks for the hugs! (I need them this week.)
I'm glad you get something from my long-winded posts. I do tend to ramble on; I think I'm capturing for myself as much as anyone else what happened. I'm never sure if I'm doing it all right, you know? I blurt sometimes and then wonder if that was OK. Othertimes I can't get the words out!
I think we should at least burn calories while doing this hard work, don't you?
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:52:54
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by rubenstein on April 28, 2005, at 12:53:58
Rachel,
Do you think having the fantasy is crossing his boundaries? Or is it in the fantasy that you actually cross the boundary?
I think this is something we worry about, crossing that invisible line. But I read over and over again that it is up to the therapist to hold the boundaries and as clients we are "allowed" to push things a little -- it says a lot about our needs. I know not all therapists respond well to this.
Have you ever told your therapist about your fantasy?
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 1:53:57
In reply to Re: What does it mean ..., posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
Annie,
I think someone said it, but for me rescuing my therapist would mean he needs me for something and things would be more balanced. For some people, it is also about proving that your aren't just this weepy mess that shows up in his office each week.
And if I rescue him from something awful, he will be eternally grateful and not be able to deny a personal relations ship later.
Posted by happyflower on April 29, 2005, at 5:54:05
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by rubenstein on April 28, 2005, at 12:53:58
I know this might be a little off topic, but funny I think. One day during a session, my T said that he doesn't touch or hug his patients, even if they go into a seizure or something, he said he would call 911. Well I said if you have a heart attack or something would you want me to save you ( I know CPR and first aid) or let you die until help arrives. Well I think he totally was caught off guard with my question ( I enjoy doing this for some reason, maybe that why he calls me challangeing, lol) because he said well you can do mouth to mouth, but you can't kiss me. He was so embarrrest, I dropped the conversation there, but it was funny to get that reaction from him. HEEHEE!
Posted by annierose on April 29, 2005, at 7:03:44
In reply to Re: What does it mean ... » annierose, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:59:32
Yes, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.
My T fantasy is neither type or sexual. Not sure what it means, I'll try to gather the courage to post about it.
Posted by annierose on April 29, 2005, at 7:09:06
In reply to Re: What does it mean ... » annierose, posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 1:53:57
LOL - That makes perfect sense too. For the T to feel indebted to you. Yes, I like that thought too.
On a similar note (not sure if I'm repeating myself) but when I saw this T 20 years ago, during one session, firemen burst into her office.
I had smelled smoke as I walked in and she dismissed it (long story). I liked that the incident happened with me because I knew she would always remember that story. And she does. Her new office, has a different door situation so that would not happen again.
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