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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
My therapist is wrong. It's no different during the bereavement period. Nobody cares how you feel as long as you're good and don't cause trouble. So I'll be as good as I can be on the outside. I'll eat all the bad feelings and soldier on.
But I'm not a good girl, and I'm going to be as bad as I possibly can be without anyone knowing. And it's going to feel good for me to know what they don't know. It's going to feel good to know that I know what they're doing to me, even if they don't. Every single time they hurt me, I'm going to hurt myself. Not so it will show. Because the point is not for them to know.
I know some might say I'm only hurting myself, and that they won't be affected at all. And that's true in a way, but in another way it's not. Because I'll know.
All I had yesterday to eat was a snack sized cottage cheese, 90 calories. I stayed up all night doing their work. Today I'm not going to eat much more and I'm going to do their work all night again. I scratched "I AM MY WORK" on my belly. I guess that means putting off my mammogram. :)
I *hate* being good for them. I hate being good for people who don't care. I want to bite and kick, but I guess I am too good for that.
I am not a good girl. I have worked my entire life not to be a good girl when it's important to be bad.
Posted by vwoolf on January 9, 2005, at 12:59:06
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
Gosh Dinah, that sounds wonderfully angry. They won't like it at all. Go for it - kick them where they deserve it.
But don't hurt yourself in the meantime. That's what they've been doing to you all along. Now's the time to look after yourself. Your kick is your first gesture of self-defence. Don't turn it inwards.
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 9, 2005, at 13:00:42
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
You sound totally enraged at someone, or several people. Honor that fact- you're not *bad* because you are angry. You are entitled to feel your real feelings, and you have very good reasons to have them (I don't know the reasons, but they are always valid- for everyone). But DON'T take them out on your own body. You'll see your therapist every day next week- TELL HIM!
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 9, 2005, at 13:01:04
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
You sound totally enraged at someone, or several people. Honor that fact- you're not *bad* because you are angry. You are entitled to feel your real feelings, and you have very good reasons to have them (I don't know the reasons, but they are always valid- for everyone). But DON'T take them out on your own body. You'll see your therapist every day next week- TELL HIM!
Posted by Crazy_Charlie on January 9, 2005, at 14:19:12
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
Somehow you remind me of a friend of mine, without any further similarities (I don't know you, so I couldn't say :)). Even though it might not look like it, she didn't want anyone to know that this was how she felt, she only told it to me.
She had been off drugs for 7 years, and was really proud of it. Her boyfriend (at the end of the relationship) spread rumours that she had started again, and she started just to prove ... I'm not sure what she wanted to prove. She got hooked again, and one of the things that made it really difficult for her to stop was the fact that everytime someone stepped on her, she used more, to "prove" something. Once she stood in front of her new boyfriend screaming "look, look now at what you make me do". She lost everything she had won last time she stopped using drugs, and a bit more. She is one of those persons though, that seem to manage anyway, and won it back again.. but it almost costed her life. She is now off drugs for the second year in a row, and this time I think she will manage.
I was visiting her before x-mas, and she told me about this urge. How everytime someone stepped on her, she felt like showing them what pain it caused her, without showing them. That is, hurt herself as a response to them hurting her.
As a way of covering up the pain she felt from the other people hurting her... when she hurt herself, at least she could control it. She would kick herself further down, but at least she covered up the extreme pain she felt enforced on her by others with the pain she could inflict on her own mind.
I don't know it it's like that for you, and I don't mean to compare you with someone who uses drugs as such. Just the same way of feeling, I guess.
I think maybe the other way around would be better.. everytime someone disbelieve you, don't believe in your power to manage something or fulfill something: show them that you really can do this, no matter what they think or say. And when you have proven that, you can ignore them for the rest of your life with a: HA!
Pity it's not so simple, huh.
CC
Posted by fallsfall on January 9, 2005, at 14:19:15
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
You sound very angry. Allow yourself your anger. It is there for a reason.
>Nobody cares how you feel as long as you're good and don't cause trouble.
**I** care how you feel whether your behavior is good or bad and whether or not you are causing trouble. Therefore, your statement is not true - because *somebody* (me) cares. You could say "The bosses at my company don't care...".
The way that they are hurting you is obviously very, very painful for you. Can you identify *what* it is about this particular hurting that produces so much pain?
It is never true that you have no choices. And you are proposing one of the choices you have: to accept their hurt and turn it onto yourself. But there ARE other choices available to you. It may be hard to identify the other choices, or you may not think that they are possible. But there ARE other possible choices. I would help you try to identify some.
When I want to hurt myself in retalliation for someone hurting me, I am usually feeling like I have no control. That I am entirely at their mercy. So they are hurting me, but I have no way to even let them know that. Is this close to how you are feeling?
Let's see if we can figure out some way for you to express your anger that sends some communication to those who are hurting you.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by crushedout on January 9, 2005, at 14:25:40
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
Dinah, I can really identify with what you're going through right now. Last night I was thinking about doing drugs, cutting, and smoking, because I knew my old T wouldn't like that I was doing that. I wanted to express my pain, though, and need, more than anger (which may be different from you, I dunno). But then I realized no one would really care that much that I was doing those things, except me, and that mostly only I would end up being hurt by it. I talked myself out of it (for now). But I think I know what you mean when you say that you're knowing it changes things, even if they don't know. Although I'm not sure if it really makes sense.
Anyway, I can sort of imagine how bad and alone you must be feeling and I wish I could help.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by crushedout on January 9, 2005, at 14:44:38
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
One more thing, Dinah: please take care of yourself, because I don't want anything bad to happen to you. Let us know how we can help you do that, ok?
Posted by Speaker on January 9, 2005, at 14:54:03
In reply to Re: See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess) » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on January 9, 2005, at 13:01:04
Dinah,
I'm sorry it's so difficult right now! I know people don't have a clue about grief...even if they say they do. I wish you could take your anger out on those that deserve it (the ignorant people) rather than yourself...you have been hurt enough. Please take care of you and don't meet their goals to make them feel better, meet your needs!
Lovingly,
Marie
Posted by alexandra_k on January 9, 2005, at 15:02:06
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
Ok now so I haven't been keeping up with things terribly well - but whats going on?
> My therapist is wrong. It's no different during the bereavement period. Nobody cares how you feel as long as you're good and don't cause trouble.
Maybe people don't know what to do or how to be? A lot of people are thoughtless (compared to us wonderfully sensitive individuals here). They don't get that little gestures of thoughtfulness can really go a long way. Bereavement is hard. It is hard to know what to say to others and it is hard to know how to be around them. Some people cope with bereavement by throwing everything into their work and they power on by avoiding the issue. I am not one of them. I am not sure whether your anger is aimed at your employers (you say that you are indespensible and can't have time off but if you end up spinning out big time by powering on then at the end of the day they will lose you for a time AND THEY WILL JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT). Or maybe this is about your husband (maybe too?) - I don't know. Same situation there too maybe?
I do have sympathy for your sentiments. Its the kind of thing I say when I am not in a good place too.
> But I'm not a good girl, and I'm going to be as bad as I possibly can be without anyone knowing. And it's going to feel good for me to know what they don't know. It's going to feel good to know that I know what they're doing to me, even if they don't. Every single time they hurt me, I'm going to hurt myself. Not so it will show. Because the point is not for them to know.Oh yeah, I have been there before. I have the scars to prove it. I won't say that 'the only one you are hurting is yourself' because that is the point - isn't it. Turning it inward and punishing yourself because you are not one of those people who can just power on. Hurting yourself in protest that you have to 'be good' to be cared for or accepted or at least not detested.
> I *hate* being good for them. I hate being good for people who don't care. I want to bite and kick, but I guess I am too good for that.
Why is the facade of goodness so important to you?
f*ck them.
Really. You have decided that anyway but you have decided to protest in a way that won't even effect them. The only way others will learn to take better care of you is if you learn how to elicit that from them. SI is not the way. How long is this going to go on for?There must be another way.
For my sake as well.
Posted by TofuEmmy on January 9, 2005, at 15:33:31
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
Dinah - Losing a parent is just a horribly painful experience. And for those of us with a child inside who is more pronounced than in others, we understand....a child lost her daddy. That's a tremendous sorrow. More than a child should have to bare. My heart aches for that little girl. I wish I could hold her, and take care of her, and mother her.
Maybe you can do that for me? Please take care of your tummy.
emmy
Posted by Aphrodite on January 9, 2005, at 15:35:57
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
(((Dinah)))
Please don't hurt yourself. Please tell you T all of this -- let him know his perceptions were off and that you need suggestions on new ways of dealing with things. You have way too much going on right now. It sounds like it's reaching critical mass. Are you still going daily to your T?
I'm sure your anger is meshed with fear, real or imagined, that your job is somehow in jeopardy, and that the last thing you need right now is another change. Maybe that's why the anger is going inward? I am so saddened that your bosses don't understand and cannot sympathize. How sad for them, really. Karma is going to be a nasty thing for them someday.
Posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 19:41:58
In reply to See, here's the thing (trigger, I guess), posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 12:37:35
To you Alexandra, and to everyone else. I really do try not to post in that state of mind, but sometimes it happens.
I actually see this as a step forward, not back. I'm angry rather than helpless and it's jarred me from paralysis. The not eating is a bit silly, but it beats constant suicidal urges. And my SI barely merits the term.
I'm not well, that's clear. But I think it might look worse, because y'all aren't used to seeing that side of me directly. And I have committed to no harm till my next appt.
I think this just all brings up a LOT of old feelings and old anger and pain. Clearly an area for some exploration when I'm feeling a bit better. I somehow think exploration wouldn't go all that well right now.
I'll take some time to process everything. And I'll print my post to take to my therapist. I don't always express my thoughts very well when I'm like that.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 9, 2005, at 19:59:57
In reply to I really want to apologize, posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 19:41:58
Hey, you don't have to apologise. I really try not to post when I am in that state of mind too, but, well, people have been very good at putting up with my RANTing every now and then. I think it is probably better to post than to just get caught up in it going round and round in your head.
Besides which - we care about you and what is going on for you. While there are some dumb *ss insensitive people in the world not everyone is like that.
I think it probably is good (and justified and understandable) to get mad sometimes. Anger is a fairly new discovery for me, but it makes a nice change from depression - though it scares the hell out of me sometimes too.
I am so glad that you have decided not to SI - at least untill you talk it over with your t. They are pretty handy for making promises to.
But don't 'minimise' it. It is an expression of stuff that sometimes seems inexpresible in any other way. I understand that. (Or maybe I am reading too much of myself into what is going on for you).
Anyways. Take care.
Posted by Shortelise on January 10, 2005, at 12:48:26
In reply to I really want to apologize, posted by Dinah on January 9, 2005, at 19:41:58
Hi Dinah,
You may feel a need to apologize, and that's ok, but I'm glad you posted what you did. You reminded me of how I once turned all of my anger inward, how much I hurt myself, and how it felt. I had kind of forgotten.
I am sorry you are living this awful stuff. I'd wish it away for you if I could.One things about not eating, though. You know your brain doesn't work properly when you don't eat, right? I know you aren't very well at the moment, and it's hard to do what's good for you. One thing you could do to help yourself feel better is eat a little. Not for your body so much as for your brain. Some nuts, some cheese. Water, too. To work any of this out, your brain has to be working, too. A little more nutrition could make a big difference.
No, I am not silly. I understand about food. But you must too, and your poor brain can't help you if you don't help it.
Hugs,
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on January 10, 2005, at 21:52:58
In reply to Re: I really want to apologize » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on January 10, 2005, at 12:48:26
And I haven't hurt myself. And I'm really sorry for writing what I did.
I'm also a little scared but don't know why. And I feel like I need something, but don't know what.
Posted by annierose on January 10, 2005, at 22:06:42
In reply to Re: I ate tonight, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2005, at 21:52:58
Dinah -
You need support! You have experienced such great loss this year. Please, allow yourself time to grieve. I'm glad you can see your T every day this week. I wish your job was more supportive. As a boss myself, I am super supportive when people are going through personal issues. Real life is way more important than a job, most of the time.
Glad you ate. Is your husband at all helpful?
Thanks for checking in. We're all pulling for you. Annierose
Posted by DissociativeJane on January 10, 2005, at 22:19:54
In reply to Re: I ate tonight, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2005, at 21:52:58
Dear Dinah,
I'm glad you ate something today. How are you doing with the new meds?
Posted by judy1 on January 10, 2005, at 23:10:56
In reply to Re: I ate tonight, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2005, at 21:52:58
I'm glad you did something good for yourself. I have very much been where you are right now and I understand how empty you feel. all I can offer is that you WILL feel better- and I get it that it doesn't seem possible to you yet. anyway, eat and get some rest and call your therp and please, please take care of yourself- judy
Posted by alexandra_k on January 11, 2005, at 1:16:32
In reply to Re: I ate tonight, posted by Dinah on January 10, 2005, at 21:52:58
I am so glad you are taking care of yourself. I really don't think that you have to be sorry - I am sorry that you are feeling so horrible. Maybe it is so scarey because really strong feelings like that can make us want to do things we wouldn't even consider otherwise. Maybe (in part) you need a hug?
((((Dinah))))
You really don't have to be sorry
You have been there for me
You have
Don't feel bad about letting us do the same for you
When I am really low sometimes it helps me a little to try and write about how I am feeling.
Putting words to it makes it seem a little bit easier to bear.
It could be useful stuff to take to your t too if you wanted to.
My thoughts really are with you.
Take care
This is the end of the thread.
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