![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 33 to 57 of 59. Go back in thread:
Posted by daisym on December 29, 2004, at 16:36:30
In reply to Daisy Pfinstegg, posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
I think I would agree about the safety if he were just a "blank slate" because I would project all of my fears of telling onto him and read into it that way. I sort of do that anyway, even with steady reassurance.
I read an interesting article last night (early this morning?) about how the different age states can develop very different kinds of dependency and the therapist needs to be really careful to be consistent because inconsistency can cause a high degree of insecure attachment. And the insecurity shows up as a push/pull between the age states. Most of the time the younger, less dominate age states attach and then test. But sometimes there is another non-dominate age that can "punish" for feeling dependent. The article did talk a lot about a "good enough" therapist, because no one can be perfectly consistent.
Unfortunately, there was a long section warning the therapist about how taxing trauma clients can be and how aware of their personal boundaries and responses they need to be. It completely fed my fear and I finally talked myself into shutting it off, because I was getting worked up. What struck me most was how the authors tried to differentiate between gratifying a "need" vs. a "wish." They had it down to a need being biologically based and a wish being more of a pyschological issue. Then they turned around and talked about how the need for a secure attachment feels as essential as air sometimes for the client, especially when you are doing deep regressive work so the therapist has to stay flexible. URG! I guess you have to be consistently flexible?!
I think mostly we just have to put the breaks on ourselves and our need to caretake our therapist. This is so much easier said than done. But sometimes when I can forget about that part, we get so much more work done. I might feel worried later, but I don't as much as I use to.
Posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:41:00
In reply to Daisy Pfinstegg, posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
I can understand why you would wonder.
Not that I'm criticizing your therapist or anything, but I can see where the cycle you're talking about could be distressing. Have you discussed it with him? Does he see the same pattern?
I might *wish* my therapist were a bit more involved, but the truth is that I appreciate his steady, consistent presence, which he might not be able to maintain if he were too involved himself.
Posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:45:59
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Pfinstegg, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 18:30:15
Daisy, with all the stuff you have to deal with right now it's no wonder you're feeling that way.
I'm so glad you have such a terrific therapist to help you through it.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 29, 2004, at 23:49:57
In reply to Daisy Pfinstegg, posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
You've described so well why the work with ego states is so difficult to do. The therapists DO get blindsided by different states with sudden storms of unexpected feelings-anger, fear, sorrow, etc., and it takes years of experience not to react by getting angry or hurt. I once said to my T that I wished that I had found him earlier. He replied, "I might not have been experienced enough to help you then." My T also has said, in many different ways, that it's vital to be with clients emotionally- just like yours said. So they have to be open and tuned in to us, but then can't react with over-solicitiousness, anger, worry, etc.- or any feeling which might cause us to close up and start worrying about their feelings. You described it so well! Don't you think, though, that each client-therapist pair gradually get better and better at dealing with one another's feelings, so that the intensity, honesty and intimacy remains, but there is also more calmness and "containment' on the therapist's part?
Posted by daisym on December 30, 2004, at 2:17:25
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » daisym, posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:45:59
I want to believe things get more contained. I asked today if He thought I should be doing better by now, should be able to not fall apart without so much contact. He said I'm exactly where I need to be and he has no expectations or time tables. He did say he wished I could hold things better because there were so many hours where I was suffering. I'm trying not to read into that statement too much. We also talked about the enormous amount of reassurance needed right now by "the girls." Even if the adult gets most of the session, they still want to ask at the end if he will be there tomorrow...he always says yes. (big sigh of relief.)
We talked about compassion fatigue today too. He said he isn't burnt out but it was highly likely that I would sense it before he was even close. He looked at me very seriously and asked, "do you smell anything burning?" I had to laugh.
Posted by antigua on December 30, 2004, at 13:01:56
In reply to Coexisting Ego States, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:35:33
I've been fascinated by what has been posted here and I'm so proud of everyone for hanging in there through all this hard stuff.
I don't handle this as well as many of you do (I'm not being hard on myself so don't fuss at me!) My little girls came out through EMDR last year. Actually, I was working on a story of my own with a young, battered girl in it and when the little girls came out, I realized the girl in the story was me. The unconscious is a great thing, isn't it?
All the girls are in a holding pattern right now and I can't seem to get anyone to make a move. I have one very small little girl with huge eyes who watches quietly from the doorway. She's "me" and she's waiting to see how this all plays out. The second is a very angy, 9 or 10 year old girl who wants control (That's the age when my father left). She wants to be bad, she wants to live, she wants the life I was never brave enough to live. But she can't do anything w/o the body, which is represented by the third girl, the badly damaged 5/6 year old who had to deal w/the abuse. The third is just a mess on the floor. She can't move; she's pathetic really, she oozes disgust and shame. She's immovable at this time. Sometimes I think she needs to be killed off, but she controls the body. (Does any of this make sense?)
Girl #2 is the only one who has spoken directly to my T, and that has only been once, after I had a physical reaction (shaking, couldn't catch my breath) to getting close to the underlying terror that seems to encompass my life (I've never been able to get through or understand these feelings). The girl spoke to the T because I was angry that she didn't protect me when I had that accident after a flashback (none of which I remember).
So we are in a stalemate. I do not trust my T. My feelings for her after almost 14 years are that she is simply doing her job. I know this is wrong, she is a wonderful T and I have no logical reason to dislike her (I just don't want anyone to suggest getting another T). I've just found myself being so analytical w/her. We have great insights that are helping tremendously but my feelings rarely come out anymore.
She knows all this, of course. We talk about it. She says I'm moving at the rate I need to, but I'm just so frustrated.
So that's my story. Sometimes I wonder if this is as good as it's going to get, and I know I've said before that if it is, I can handle it. I can live w/this person. It's the frustration that's so hard.
thanks for letting me vent,
antigua
Posted by daisym on December 31, 2004, at 0:21:21
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States, posted by antigua on December 30, 2004, at 13:01:56
Antigua,
Can you talk to all your little girls? Do they talk to each other? Sometimes I feel like there is a war going on inside my head!
I know you have been doing this a long time. But you are making gains. It is just slow...forward and then back and then forward again. There is nothing wrong with working for containment. Is your frustration around not knowing? Or is it something else?
btw: I totally get what you mean by one person being in charge but the others watching and sort of waiting their turn. It seems like your feelings for your therapist and your mom are all mixed up. I know how painful it can be to feel all of that. No wonder you've shut yourself down.
I'm glad you jumped in here. I've missed you.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 31, 2004, at 1:37:35
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States, posted by antigua on December 30, 2004, at 13:01:56
Gosh. It seems like you've got such a clear idea of who your different ego states are, how they feel, and what they need. Would it help to have more EMDR to give them a way to speak more? My therapist asked if I would add on art therapy, so as to find ways to express the less verbal parts of my different selves. I have just started, but I like the therapist very much- we almost do play therapy together at times, drawing together, using clay, etc. It's hard to say what is occuring, but SOMETHING is. I feel a lot more open and safe in my regular therapy- I guess I should say that my younger selves are the ones that do. I just do it once every two weeks, but I do think it's making something different happen.
Just a thought - and please tell me if I'm wrong -WHO is it that doesn't trust your therapist? Just to hazard a guess, it must be one or more of your younger selves. I think it's unlikely to be the adult you, after such a long period of being with her.(and I think you are making it clear that the adult YOU DOESN'T want to leave her at all).
It is so hard to do this kind of work, with some selves competing ferociously for the therapist's attention, and other collapsed and miserable selves intent on remaining hidden. I do like my therapist's idea of using a team approach during the hardest times. I hope one of these ideas may be useful to you to help you feel like you are moving forward again.
Posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 7:51:15
In reply to Glacier Movement » antigua, posted by daisym on December 31, 2004, at 0:21:21
Good insights, thanks Daisy.
The only girl who talks to the others is the "angry" one, although I don't like to refer to her always as "angry" because I think she is the one who is going to survive, less the anger and hopefully will be the "assertive" one. This little girl is very critical of the weak one, verbally and otherwise; the weak one can't even speak at this point. Containing the angry one is important at this point (often I have to keep her locked away) because she could do a lot of damage (I think she's the one who caused the accident). She's definitely self-destructive, but very powerful--except she doesn't have the body, so she's limited.
Yes I know I have my T and mother mixed up. Up until this point my T has always been the "good mother," defending and protecting me against others when I needed it. But I don't feel that way anymore. She has limitations--her job has limitations, because after all, at the most basic this is her JOB (we argue about this). There are some objective truths--she is certainly invested in my care, but there's a limit. I guess you could say that the attachment is gone, and it makes me feel quite hopeless that if the attachment is gone w/her, I'm on my own, which I really do think should be the end result of therapy. She has taught me well, I internalize her (and I sure can help others around me by what I've learned from her), but we are stuck at a dead end, and true to her style, I'm the one to unblock it, and I can't.
I've never been angry at my mother over this--or my father. Anger for them is outside the spectrum of my feelings. Oh, I can rant and rave privately on occasion, but it does no good. I've jumped right over it--my mother did the best she could. She went from one abusive relationship to another and she did what she had to do to survive. I would never accept that for my own kids, but my mother has her limitations and I just can't hold them against her. My father? Just can't go there. I loved him very much, and as Daisy said, my father was a different man in the later years of his life. Plus, my knowledge of the abuse didn't consciously surface until afer he died, even though a part of me knew it was always there.
So I'm a mess. The urge is to do something, anything to alleviate these awful feelings. I want to tell me T to DO SOMETHING, but it has to come from me. The key is to not self destruct before I figure it out--a genuine fear I have.
antigua
Posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 8:00:43
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » antigua, posted by Pfinstegg on December 31, 2004, at 1:37:35
Thanks Pfinstegg.
I had to leave EMDR because it meant I had two Ts and a psych offering me their opinions, which often conflicted. As I said earlier, my emotions would come out, quite restrained, with my EMDR T but I was beginning to form some type of relationship to her that I just didn't want to risk becoming overly involved with. The teamwork had its drawbacks.
I quit after the accident, but part of me thinks it's time to go back. I just don't need anymore relationship complications at this time. EMDR has been helpful for understanding how the weak little girl felt, but I haven't had any success in making her feel better (that is, connecting the girls).
Who is it that doesn't trust my T? Actually, I do think it's my adult. It has been proven to me time and again that reaching out for help rarely works in the end--I am responsible for my own well-being, as well meaning as my T is. comes from being a kid, I'm sure, but I do think it's the adult.
Also, I'm slow to trust, and I don't think my little girls are competing for her attention at all. They are fighting it out among themselves.
See, I just don't trust anyone. But the truth doesn't lie--it doesn't work for me, no matter how open and trusting I've tried to be. I'm probably expecting too much, but the result is always disappointment.
antigua
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:46:08
In reply to Re: Daisy Pfinstegg » Aphrodite, posted by daisym on December 29, 2004, at 16:36:30
I smiled at your account of the article you just read because I am knee-deep in a book about countertransference issues, compassion fatigue, vicarious traumatization, etc. I keep bringing things up, and he finally got irritated and ordered me to stop reading that! I said I found it helpful to understand things from his point of view, but he said that was insulting because his point of view is not in that book and I am making generalizations about him that are not his "truths." "If you want to know what kind of reaction *I* am having, ask ME!"
So, I told him that we haven't even begun to talk about any real issues, and I feared that I have used up his well of compassion on just forming trust and a relationship and talking about the fears of letting go and telling the tales. He reassured me that his well is replenishable and that his privilege and desire is to help and that I had no idea how easy I am to care for and give to. It was nothing like the book, so I'm glad he made me ask.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:48:48
In reply to Re: Daisy Pfinstegg » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:41:00
I have discussed with him the pattern of opening up, getting an emotional reaction from him and then needing to take care of him. He did not see the same pattern, but acknowledged that I engage in "misguided caretaking." I think the truth is that he is an intensely emotional person and since I am more reserved, I think what is "normal" from him comes across to me as a severe reaction to what I am saying or doing. I just need to accept him a little more and trust that he takes care of himself. Easier said than done!
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:53:40
In reply to Getting a little derailed by ego states » Aphrodite, posted by Pfinstegg on December 29, 2004, at 23:49:57
I think you are right that as a more trusting relationship emerges that I will have less need to analyze, worry, etc. And I do need to show him more of my ego states and let them have more opportunities to speak without my editing so that he can get to know their "voices" better and so things won't be a shocking to him. I really hate how long and deep this process is. There has just been so much abuse/neglect at various times in my life that so many ego states became frozen and stuck. It's hard to undo because it's not like you can say, "OK let's fix the five year old . . . next will do the 'angry' five year old . . . then the teenager, etc." Working on one at a time, for me, is virtually impossible because of all the other states clammoring for time and attention or adults who think everything is "fine" try to shut down the effort. I'm tired just thinking about it:)
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 8:03:01
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Pfinstegg, posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 8:00:43
I am sad to hear that your attachment has not returned with your T since the last time you posted about it. I understand that your accident was a huge rupture in trust and shocked you into a place of self-sufficiency. I am glad that you still go to her though and use her in whatever support capacity you can right now. It seems heartening, though, that you did feel things with your EMDR T. Do you think that still shows you have the desire and capacity for attachment? Did you not want to pursue with because you would prefer to have that with you T? I can see how having to Ts might lead to confusion.
I was touched by the stories of your various ego states. My T, who does use EMDR on occasion, is gently working me toward a place of creating an integrated, executive me who understands and is compassionate toward all the part-selves and who can direct the internal states toward consensus and making good decisions for all involved. I have serious doubts about ever getting there, but it's a wonderful concept.
I am sorry to hear that you are struggling so much. I hope you keep posting with updates.
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 9:08:01
In reply to the pattern » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:48:48
I asked because sometimes things in a relationship are our perception and not reality. It helps to get the other person's reality and try to mesh them. There's a perception that all reality is on the part of the therapist and all misconception is on the part of the client. But I think that's not always, or perhaps even usually, true. Unless we find we are perceiving the same things in different people frequently enough that perhaps we should open our minds to the possibility that what we are seeing is in *us* not them. But if we perceive something about our therapists that we don't generally have a pattern of perceiving in others, I sort of think there is often a grain of truth to it. Because many of us are more perceptive than the average bear. That's when it's helpful to talk it over time and time again, and find out what is behind the kernel of truth that we perceive.
I did that with my therapist and found that yes, there was truth to my perceptions, but that no, that truth was not as big and as bad as I had feared. To me that was way more reassuring than if he had constantly told me that there was no truth whatsoever. I would have constantly been at odds between what I saw and what I was told. But when we discovered the truth together, we were able to work things out until they were no longer an undercurrent in our relationship.
A few examples if I haven't bored you to tears already. I perceived that he was uncomfortable with my dependence, while he denied it. When we finally had that big blowup where he accidentally blurted that he had trouble with dependent women, and it wasn't anything specific to me, he became a much better therapist and the resistance he was putting up to my dependence faded away. Without the resistance, my dependence had nothing to push against, and it lessened in strength. I perceived that he did *not* want me to talk about me and me. While I never directly addressed the topic, I talked around it for years, until I finally sat him down and told him it was getting in the way of my therapy. Years after that he admitted that a) he didn't want to encourage or create ego states that didn't exist before therapy and b) he had MPD burnout having had several in his caseload shortly before seeing me. It was so much a relief to hear him admit that. To know what it was that I was picking up from him and why. He also used to be sort of appalled at my grooming. He said again yesterday that he didn't think less of me for it (when I was commenting that his hair always looked good enough to take a photo and that when he looked at me he must feel...). And today I think maybe he sees *me* and isn't in fact mildly revolted. I doubt he'll *ever* admit to that one, but I know it's true. :)
I suppose I should clarify that he never expressed these things to meet his own needs. He always (except perhaps the one blurting time) assessed the value of admitting to the truth that I already knew. And I don't think he's ever misjudged that.
So I think it's a healthy thing to hash things out and find out what's the truth at the base of what may be a manufactured structure of assumptions on our part. But maybe that's just me. I have to admit that I've been willing (and even relieved) to hear less than flattering things as long as they weren't as bad as I feared. Perhaps not everyone is willing to do that. Which is perfectly ok too.
One of the things I like best about my therapist is his unflappability. He flares into anger occasionally, but he's open and receptive to whatever I say and whatever me shows up to therapy. He doesn't even skip a beat. I think it would be very distressing to me if he were very emotional. But I'm sure to other people, it is very validating to have a therapist who empathizes so. Particularly if the therapist is expressing things that they can't.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:02
In reply to Re: the pattern » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 9:08:01
> Because many of us are more perceptive than the average bear. That's when it's helpful to talk it over time and time again, and find out what is behind the kernel of truth that we perceive.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I believe I am very intuitive. It is one of the few "gifts" I think a trauma person has -- I can sense goodness or danger in others and react accordingly. I think I can really tell when others are hiding or being untruthful. So, he sometimes tries to be very therapist-y and "above the fray" but I can tell he is really thinking something else. I keep pushing, as you say, and the truth often leaks out.
>
> Years after that he admitted that a) he didn't want to encourage or create ego states that didn't exist before therapy and b) he had MPD burnout having had several in his caseload shortly before seeing me. It was so much a relief to hear him admit that.This is interesting because I have an underlying feeling of resentment that my T "created" this pathology in me of ego states. When we first started discussing my problems in this way, I was mortified and thought I sounded "crazy" when, in fact, I was trying to promote myself as perfectly fine and normal. As we worked with it, the truth of the existence of this problem was so overwhelming that I could no longer accuse him of the creation, and he worked very hard to normalize it in light of my life circumstances, and make it as bearable and acceptable as possible. Interesting that the two of you had the reverse experience. Admitting that he had a lot of DID experience does explain things. Did he ever admit that yours did, in fact, exist prior to therapy?
>>
>
>
> One of the things I like best about my therapist is his unflappability. He flares into anger occasionally, but he's open and receptive to whatever I say and whatever me shows up to therapy. He doesn't even skip a beat. I think it would be very distressing to me if he were very emotional. But I'm sure to other people, it is very validating to have a therapist who empathizes so. Particularly if the therapist is expressing things that they can't.
>This is my catch-22. My T will ALWAYS skip a beat, but that's him. It sounds nice, though, to be free to be honest. Yet, your last line is where I need the help most. Since he is 100% "in it" with me emotionally speaking, he can not only express what I do not yet have language for, but he often also says that he is feeling what I am feeling. He says, "It's feeling hard for me to breathe listening to this. Is that what you're experiencing?" Or, "I'm getting tense in my muscles around my neck, are you?" And he is usually always right. And then he'll lead me through some breathing exercises or tell me to stretch to help with the somatic experiences as I speak. And since I am so frozen and stoic, his participation helps get me through the rougher sessions.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:38
In reply to Re: the pattern, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:02
Posted by antigua on January 1, 2005, at 12:12:48
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » antigua, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 8:03:01
Thank you Aphrodite, that was very kind of you.
You brought up a good question--whether or not I still have the capacity for attachment. Hadn't thought about it that way. I certainly have it w/my children, but at this point I truly feel and believe that nobody can help me but me. I don't say that meanly, or to garner self pity, it just seems to be the objective truth. Then again, I'm certain I'm wrong, too, and I hope I'm just going through a phase. The funny thing is that it's not like I can just "let go" and trust. Is there a trick I don't know about?
This may sound silly, but my expectations must be too high (that feeling of wanting something I can never have, probably, because it's a bygone needy feeling from infancy) and since other people (my T, for ex) can't live up to the expectation, I just can't trust them. Lowering my expectations IS what I do IRL, because that's the way life is, but I can't seem to do that when it comes to my most desperate needs.
antigua
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:27:25
In reply to Getting a little derailed by ego states » Aphrodite, posted by Pfinstegg on December 29, 2004, at 23:49:57
> I once said to my T that I wished that I had found him earlier. He replied, "I might not have been experienced enough to help you then."
What a wonderful response. And so honest and real.
>Don't you think, though, that each client-therapist pair gradually get better and better at dealing with one another's feelings, so that the intensity, honesty and intimacy remains, but there is also more calmness and "containment' on the therapist's part?
I like to think this is true. I had a couple of long term clients last year. It seemed we developed a sort of "shorthand" that made the processing easier at times. Of course I think we both were still capable of surprising the other as well. That's good, I think.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:30:39
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Dinah, posted by daisym on December 30, 2004, at 2:17:25
> He did say he wished I could hold things better because there were so many hours where I was suffering. I'm trying not to read into that statement too much.
My take on that is that he just wishes you didn't have so much suffering. I think that we can wish that and still accept the reality of where someone is and not judge progress based on some external timetable. (unless my supervisor is involved, sigh...good thing he does not do this kind of work.)
> We talked about compassion fatigue today too. He said he isn't burnt out but it was highly likely that I would sense it before he was even close. He looked at me very seriously and asked, "do you smell anything burning?" I had to laugh.
How sweet. I've said it before, but I love your T.
gg
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 20:40:52
In reply to Re: the pattern, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:02
> > Years after that he admitted that a) he didn't want to encourage or create ego states that didn't exist before therapy and b) he had MPD burnout having had several in his caseload shortly before seeing me. It was so much a relief to hear him admit that.
>
> This is interesting because I have an underlying feeling of resentment that my T "created" this pathology in me of ego states. When we first started discussing my problems in this way, I was mortified and thought I sounded "crazy" when, in fact, I was trying to promote myself as perfectly fine and normal. As we worked with it, the truth of the existence of this problem was so overwhelming that I could no longer accuse him of the creation, and he worked very hard to normalize it in light of my life circumstances, and make it as bearable and acceptable as possible. Interesting that the two of you had the reverse experience. Admitting that he had a lot of DID experience does explain things. Did he ever admit that yours did, in fact, exist prior to therapy?
> >
>
He never actually said they didn't. He just seemed uncomfortable when I mentioned it and reflected it back to me in other terms. He actually thinks that yes, it's always been a part of my life. And the fact that I spoke in terms of ego states (not using those words, but using the concepts) from even before I started therapy is something that he takes into account. He doesn't diagnose and doesn't believe in treating diagnoses but rather clients, but he's strongly hinted that if he's forced to put down a diagnosis for insurance purposes he'd probably use DD-NOS. He very reluctantly admits I don't meet the diagnostic criteria for DID because of the lack of amnesia, although a different therapist rather creatively expanded the definition of amnesia so that I'd fit, while a third said I had no problem with dissociation at all. :) I think my therapist's middle ground is probably correct. He believes I have two, possibly three, ego states distinct enough to be considered MPD if not DID, and that they've been consistent since I was young. (I'm 99% certain he prefers the old MPD classification to the new DID one, and still thinks in those terms.) He's not sure about the third because he's only met that one once.That being said, he does think my presentation is different from his prior clients. In the nine years I've seen him, the number of ego states has remained unchanged, no fragmenting. The only change in the entire nine years was that I learned to self hypnotize to reach a deeper level of consciousness to allow the voluntary and consistent access of my emotional self. It's a very stable ego split between rational/emotional with the third ego state (the one I call "Happy Dinah") being somewhat differently defined.
I just ran across this page I bookmarked a while back. While a lot of it doesn't resonate with me, I think I saved it because of the emotional/rational split concept rather than the more usual age split concept.
http://www.dissociation.com/index/Definition/
Hmmmm.... I suppose I should also say that while he clearly thinks in those terms, he's also comfortable discussing it in different language and theory on those occasions when the whole thing is distressing to me. Different levels of consciousness, that sort of thing.
> >
> >
> > One of the things I like best about my therapist is his unflappability. He flares into anger occasionally, but he's open and receptive to whatever I say and whatever me shows up to therapy. He doesn't even skip a beat. I think it would be very distressing to me if he were very emotional. But I'm sure to other people, it is very validating to have a therapist who empathizes so. Particularly if the therapist is expressing things that they can't.
> >
>
> This is my catch-22. My T will ALWAYS skip a beat, but that's him. It sounds nice, though, to be free to be honest. Yet, your last line is where I need the help most. Since he is 100% "in it" with me emotionally speaking, he can not only express what I do not yet have language for, but he often also says that he is feeling what I am feeling. He says, "It's feeling hard for me to breathe listening to this. Is that what you're experiencing?" Or, "I'm getting tense in my muscles around my neck, are you?" And he is usually always right. And then he'll lead me through some breathing exercises or tell me to stretch to help with the somatic experiences as I speak. And since I am so frozen and stoic, his participation helps get me through the rougher sessions.I just have a personal preference for... Well, I always say that my therapist stays in his chair. Some therapists have emotions that seem to leap towards me, while mine is contained. It would make me very uncomfortable to have an expressively emotional therapist. The pdoc from heck said my therapist wasn't a good match for me because we both were too much in our heads. But I quit seeing said pdoc because he scared me senseless with his emoting (among other reasons). But that's just me. That's why there's lots of different types of therapists out there.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:43:36
In reply to Re: Glacier Movement » daisym, posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 7:51:15
> I've never been angry at my mother over this--or my father. Anger for them is outside the spectrum of my feelings. Oh, I can rant and rave privately on occasion, but it does no good. I've jumped right over it--my mother did the best she could. She went from one abusive relationship to another and she did what she had to do to survive. I would never accept that for my own kids, but my mother has her limitations and I just can't hold them against her.
I've experienced a similar feeling towards my mother. She had this behavior that sends me to the very edge of my patience. It also means that she is not able to be my mother to me. She was never a good enough mother, and this continues to hurt me today. I lean towards having compassion and letting her off the hook because I am sure she has her own issues that lead her to behave this way. My T challenges this, though. He thinks her behavior is part of a sadistic dance she does to demand my attention and admiration. And this definitely does leave me without a mother figure to meet my needs. So I have a hard time holding the two ideas in my head (mom cannot help herself and mom intentionally although perhaps unconsciously hurts me still). I definitely always move towards the letting her off the hook idea, but this doesn't validate the reality of my own pain. It's so very hard and confusing, though.
> So I'm a mess. The urge is to do something, anything to alleviate these awful feelings. I want to tell me T to DO SOMETHING, but it has to come from me. The key is to not self destruct before I figure it out--a genuine fear I have.
I'm glad you are still hanging in there. I'm sorry it is moving so slow. Perhaps trying something different in therapy, such as EMDR again, play therapy such as pfinstegg, or dialoging between the girls if that feels okay might help jump start things when you are ready?
At any rate, I wish you enough and I wish you peace.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:45:23
In reply to readings » daisym, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:46:08
> I smiled at your account of the article you just read because I am knee-deep in a book about countertransference issues, compassion fatigue, vicarious traumatization, etc.
Ooh, ooh, what's the book? It sounds like one I should investigate.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:48:53
In reply to the pattern » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:48:48
> I think the truth is that he is an intensely emotional person and since I am more reserved, I think what is "normal" from him comes across to me as a severe reaction to what I am saying or doing. I just need to accept him a little more and trust that he takes care of himself. Easier said than done!
This is interesting. I once found myself getting teary-eyed at a client's account of her mother's death. The client has not been able to cry about it, and felt bad for making me "feel bad." I told her at the time that she may see me tear up or get emotional at times, but that is my own reaction, and she didn't need to protect me from it.
It's hard though, and I imagine a bit awkward, when there is a difference in emotional expression between the T and the client. I'm just such a crier. I rarely do cry in front of clients, but there are times when I am truly moved and it just is there. I suppose I can rationalize it as good modelling? :)
gg
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 21:19:44
In reply to Re: readings » Aphrodite, posted by gardenergirl on January 1, 2005, at 20:45:23
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.