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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Skittles on December 27, 2004, at 21:45:42
I'm going to start with a warning that LOTS of things are jumbled in my head and I need to get them out. I'm not sure if I can make it seem coherent, but I will try my best.
Some background... My last appt with T was on the 20th. She knows I have a hard time calling her, so she asked if I would like her to call me. I told her I'd appreciate that. We aren't going to be able to meet again until the 6th and she told me that if I needed her, she would come in to see me during her vacation. She asked if I would be able to tell her if I needed her when she called. I told her probably not. Her response was that she was afraid of that and she suggested we just go ahead and set something up. In an effort to be the *good* patient who is perfectly grown up and independent, I declined - even though my insides were absolutely screaming yes.
So, yesterday we celebrated the holiday with my parents and some of my father's extended family. My father and his cousin started talking about the terrible tempers that their fathers (who were brothers) had/have. They described so many characteristics that were my own father to a T. That on it's own was bad enough to listen to. But then they started to share stories of physical abuse they had suffered at the hands of these men (one of whom is my grandfather, of course). Horrible, horrible stories. I didn't think I was going to make it. It was all I could do to hold back the tears. I couldn't even LOOK at my parents. I found myself thinking of the kinds of things I would be telling if I were participating in the conversation and the people who had mistreated me weren't right there beside me. How dare my father sit there and tell those stories with tears in his eyes when he'd done the same or worse to me - and to do it right in front of me???? But at the same time, I feel so very very sorry for him. He seems to remember everything in great detail. I only remember fragments and I think I am grateful for that. And I find myself wishing I could talk to him about how these things are coming up for both of us at the same time because in that way, he feels like a kindred. But this kindred is also my abuser!!! These conflicting feelings make the pain so much more intense and I feel like I am sinking.
Well, today when my T called as she promised she would, I told her a little about this experience. She again offered to meet with me during her vacation and this time I told her that I wanted to, but that I hated interrupting her private time. Then she asked if I could wait until Wednesday morning and I told her I could. I asked her if she promised that this was not a problem. Her response was that she had to see someone in the hospital (right by her office, btw) and that if she wasn't there right on time, she WOULD be there. Ok, not exactly the reassurance I was looking for. I perceive it as, "Well, I have to go see this bad patient who went and got herself hospitalized during my break, so I might as well see my other bad patient too." Point is, the guilt and discomfort is through the roof.
Next problem.... My mother, who is also a T, recently moved her office into a different suite in the same building (small building) my own T is in. I can't even begin to explain how invaded I feel by that. There are things I can't even begin to talk about in therapy because I'm afraid I'll be *found out* by my mother. I'm always afraid I'm going to run into her while I'm there and I do my best to hide my car and sneak in and out of my T's office. It's miserable. Anyway, I agreed to Wednesday with my T because I didn't think my mother would be there, as she usually works elsewhere on Wednesdays. But I just spoke with her and found out she plans to do some organizing in her office that day. What makes this so very different from usual is that no one in the building is working this week, so if my mother sees me there, she will absolutely KNOW that something is up. I am very much considering calling my T to cancel. But the idea of calling and disturbing her makes me feel like even more of a bad patient. I don't know what to do. The thought of going under these conditions has my stomach in knots. I feel ill.
Thanks for listening.
Posted by annierose on December 27, 2004, at 22:08:01
In reply to I've become the *bad* patient, posted by Skittles on December 27, 2004, at 21:45:42
Skittles- Things are definitely complicated, and I hope you are still able to make your therapy appointment. Does your mom know you are in treatment? It doesn't sound like she does. I can only imagine the discomfort. Regarding your therapist, I think she was only trying to reassure you that she was working on Wednesday, so she would already be there, so you would not be any inconvenience at all. I can see how you felt. I probably would of felt the same way. But she would not have offered you the appoitment if she didn't want to be there for you. And listening to your father had to be so painful. I think your T could really help you sort this through (although probably not in one session). That was a major revelation. I wish I could help you more. Please try to keep your appt on Wednesday.
Posted by Skittles on December 27, 2004, at 22:15:55
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient, posted by annierose on December 27, 2004, at 22:08:01
Thank you so much for responding. It means more to me than I can even say to know that you took the time to read all of that.
Yes, my mother does know I am in therapy but she has no idea that I'm talking about her and my father. I started in the first place for a very specific issue and she knew about that. She also has no clue that I'm going twice a week (another thing I'd feel mortified over if she found out). We don't talk about it but I know she thinks I go once or twice a month because that's how it was when I began.
Again, thank you for taking the time to respond to me.
Posted by thewrite1 on December 27, 2004, at 22:18:34
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient, posted by annierose on December 27, 2004, at 22:08:01
As far as being afraid of running into your mom, is there some excuse to make up *if* you run into her, maybe even saying you came there to see her? I suspect that won't happen, but should you run into her, have something you could say. That might make you feel better. BTW, I don't believe in being dishonest, but I do believe that people deserve their privacy and if that takes a little lie, so be it.
Posted by messadivoce on December 28, 2004, at 0:14:20
In reply to I've become the *bad* patient, posted by Skittles on December 27, 2004, at 21:45:42
Oh my dear Skittles, I'm so sorry about all of that!! I can't even imagine how horrible it would be to sit and suffer in silence like that in front of your abuser!! I really really hope you are able to keep your appointment on Wednesday. I agree with annierose, that your T wouldn't offer an appt unless she wanted to see you. Please don't skip it. As far as your mom finding out, I have walked that line before with my parents, and all I can say is, what you need is more important than what others think right now. I agree with thewrite1 that you should have an explanation in place if you should run into her. I hope you have told your T how invaded you feel about your mom being there and that she is aware of the situation. Your T sounds very caring and genuine. Please let us know how it went if you feel up to it.
Posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:53:47
In reply to I've become the *bad* patient, posted by Skittles on December 27, 2004, at 21:45:42
This is a 2-part response.
About your dad - I'm sorry about the agony you must have been in during that conversation. Do you think he remembers anything about your childhood? OR, do you think he considered it abuse? I've had this conversation with my therapist a couple of times. We believe that somehow my dad has buried what happened very deeply. He still seems motivated to "make it up" to me, but he never gives any indication that he remembers laying a hand on me. This summer I had to go to his house on an emergency visit. He took me to visit our old house, where much of the abuse happened, and he pulled out a box of "special" things...including pictures of me at 10,11 and 12. One is pretty haunting, I look so sad. He said it was his favorite. *sigh* I just realized that this happened to me when my therapist was on vacation too...weird coincidence. When he came back, we talked about it some and it helped just to have him gasp in all the right places. And to have him acknowledge how impossibly hard it must have been for me.
I'm telling you this to encourage you to keep your appointment with your therapist. She will help you get it out and hold it with you. It is too hard to keep in for so long.
As far as having your space invaded, boy do I understand that right now!! And it isn't even my mother. I agree with the others about having a story ready -- something like, "it has been hard to schedule all around the holidays so we are meeting now" or even, "I have some insurance paperwork to deal with and she told me to drop on over." Your therapist will keep what you are working on confidential. Your mom isn't magic, she can't hear through the walls and she won't have access to your file. Be as honest as you can with your therapist and maybe she will have some ideas for you too.
You are NOT a bad patient, daughter or person. You are hurting and giving yourself care. That is a good thing to be doing. Do you think the rest of us are bad for leaning on our therapists, or calling them? Please be as gentle with yourself as you are to the rest of us. It shouldn't be this complicated or hard for you.
Hugs from me,
Daisy
Posted by Annierose on December 28, 2004, at 8:26:29
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient » annierose, posted by Skittles on December 27, 2004, at 22:15:55
Hi Skittles-
You are a good person and good patient. I can relate about keeping your therapy private from your mother, and I'm much older than you (I'm a mother myself, these issues don't go away easily). I think that is a good thing for me.
Since she knows you do go, this appointment could just be one of the 2x a month regular appt. Like someone else wrote, you don't really owe her an explanation. Your T works very hard to keep your life private. That is her job. But I can understand the awkwardness being in the same building. It would creep me out as well (I have issues with my mother, can you tell). When my mother makes references to my therapy, I just let the comment go over my head, like I didn't hear it. Or if it's a direct question, "how often do you go?" Answer, "enough". I'm 43, it's not her business. Were you able to sleep last night?
A good night of sleep can help me get through a hard day. I hope you go tomorrow. There is a huge chance that you won't even run into your mom. She'll be inside her office. Do you have to pass the same hallway? -Annierose
Posted by Skittles on December 28, 2004, at 10:01:45
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient, posted by thewrite1 on December 27, 2004, at 22:18:34
This is a good idea, thank you very much. I know what you mean about not believing in dishonesty. It's disappointing that sometimes we must resort to it for self-preservation's sake.
Posted by Skittles on December 28, 2004, at 10:09:28
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient, posted by messadivoce on December 28, 2004, at 0:14:20
Thank you so much for your reassurances. I'm not sure why I can't let my T be responsible for her own actions and why I can't believe her offer is genuine. Maybe because I often offer to do things for people when I don't really want to?
I have told my T how I feel about my mother's presence. Her response was, "I'm sorry." Yuck! How helpful that isn't!!!
I will do my best to keep this appointment (though I AM secretly hoping my T will call and cancel on me) and I'll definitely report back. I think I'll go scope out a neighboring parking lot where I can "hide" my car (as the actual building I'm going to will be virtually empty) and just walk over. Oh how this makes me feel like a teenager all over again.
Posted by Skittles on December 28, 2004, at 10:28:19
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient » Skittles, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:53:47
You know, I never even considered that he wouldn't remember or wouldn't consider it abuse. But I'm sure it's very possible, maybe even probable. The first thing that came to my mind is that he was just being mean, kind of twisting the knife, in a way. Daisy, does your Dad try to make physical contact with you? Mine seems to want to hug me all the time and I hate it. I can tolerate an arm around the shoulders, but sometimes he pulls me close in a way that feels too intimate and I wish I could crawl out of my skin.
I knew you would understand about having my space invaded. It really has nothing to do with my T. That's one area where I trust her completely. I know she would never divulge anything. I'm not sure I can explain it very well, but it's simply my mother's presence that is disconcerting. And even if she didn't know exactly what was going on, the fact she might find out *something* is up is too much for me - it leads to questions and false displays of concern. And seeing that my T came in for me during her vacation would certainly tip her off! But yes, I can come up with some explanation and that does help ease my mind somewhat. How have things been going with your invasion? Did your T get the scheduling worked out?
And no, I absolutely do not think others here are bad for relying on their T's. I've also not read here about a situation where someone's T came in just for them during a vacation. But even if I did, I wouldn't think that person was bad. That's another thing I don't understand - why I can't be as kind to myself as I am to others.
Posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 18:55:39
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient » daisym, posted by Skittles on December 28, 2004, at 10:28:19
>>>You know, I never even considered that he wouldn't remember or wouldn't consider it abuse. But I'm sure it's very possible, maybe even probable. The first thing that came to my mind is that he was just being mean, kind of twisting the knife, in a way.
<<<<I think they have to push it down and away in order to survive themselves. It may come up for him if he is remembering his own abuse. But if he thinks you have "gotten over it" why would he bring it up? I doubt he was being mean on purpose, but I don't know him. You said you hadn't heard his stories before. Perhaps, some time in the future, you can tell him how sad you were for him and see if it opens up a conversation.>>>>Daisy, does your Dad try to make physical contact with you? Mine seems to want to hug me all the time and I hate it. I can tolerate an arm around the shoulders, but sometimes he pulls me close in a way that feels too intimate and I wish I could crawl out of my skin.
<<<I don't really like contact from anyone, except maybe my kids and few very close friends. In fact it is a source of teasing from the folks I work with because they are a very huggy group (Damn human service people! :) My dad still calls me "baby" and he does hug me. But it is pretty limited as we live 3,000 miles apart. We've developed a very different relationship over the past 20 years, he is a terrific grandfather and he respects the work I do. Which makes digging out all this abuse stuff twice as hard. I've mentally divided him into two people, who he was before I turned 20 and who he is now. He has never, ever indicated that he felt bad for any of what went on or for moving away. I doubt he sought therapy. I was worried for a while that maybe he was a pedophile, (especially because I never told anybody) but my therapist seems to think there is a difference between pedophiles and abuse within families. Incest (I hate that word!) is as old as dirt and as common too.>>>>>>I knew you would understand about having my space invaded. It really has nothing to do with my T. That's one area where I trust her completely. I know she would never divulge anything. I'm not sure I can explain it very well, but it's simply my mother's presence that is disconcerting. And even if she didn't know exactly what was going on, the fact she might find out *something* is up is too much for me - it leads to questions and false displays of concern.
<<<<I get it. It is impossible to outgrow that sense that your mother "just knows." I would be freaked out too. And that concern - sheesh - do I know that too. It often feels like another way for her to give me her opinion and I have to take it because it is bundled up in "I'm worried about you.">>>>>>>And seeing that my T came in for me during her vacation would certainly tip her off! But yes, I can come up with some explanation and that does help ease my mind somewhat. How have things been going with your invasion? Did your T get the scheduling worked out?
<<<<I'm still having a really rough time around this. Today is a good example. My therapist has decided if I come on Tuesdays, that I should come earlier, because the likelihood is that "they" won't come until school is out. But today was a school Holiday. So I walked into the office and my friend said, "Oh, we are going today at 2, just to let you know." I was going at 11, so not a problem. But it FELT like a problem. I'm just not rational about this. I didn't have a complete melt down but I was upset enough to tell him about it -- AGAIN. He never minimizes my feelings, we just keep exploring what is being so badly triggered.>>>>And no, I absolutely do not think others here are bad for relying on their T's. I've also not read here about a situation where someone's T came in just for them during a vacation. But even if I did, I wouldn't think that person was bad. That's another thing I don't understand - why I can't be as kind to myself as I am to others.
<<<<<I didn't think you thought that. I was just trying to make the point with you that you should cut yourself some slack. And just so you know, my therapist offered to call me during his vacation because I was having such a hard time believing he would come back. Perhaps learning to be kind to yourself could be a therapy goal...I think you are very sweet and deserve kindness. I'm glad you found a therapist who obviously understands what you need. Hang on to her.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by Skittles on December 29, 2004, at 19:06:29
In reply to Re: I've become the *bad* patient » Skittles, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 18:55:39
And as far as the mother thing, it wasn't a problem. She wasn't there when I arrived and she still wasn't there when I left. Such relief!!
I'm extremely happy I went and was able to talk through how the whole family conversation made me feel. But it was all very emotional and I worked hard not to cry uncontrollably. I must have seemed in pretty bad shape (probably b/c I am) because she asked me for the first time if I ever thought about hurting myself. I was honest but I wouldn't tell her my plan. I'm leaving in a couple of days for a trip that normally would have me tickled pink, but as things are now I'm dreading it. I don't want to go. She told me to call her at least once while I'm away. I guess I'm glad she kind of made it homework of sorts because I know that otherwise I'll think about calling her but never go through with it. This way I don't have to decide whether I need her or only want her. I'm just supposed to do it.
And I hate these really emotional sessions because I feel so needy afterwards. I can't seem to pull myself back together and all I've been able to think about for the past 9 hours is talking to her again. Yuck!
Posted by annierose on December 29, 2004, at 22:40:27
In reply to I went, posted by Skittles on December 29, 2004, at 19:06:29
Skittles-
I am so happy for you. Happy that you went (I know how much courage that took) and happy that you didn't run into your mother. Your T sounds very helpful and supportive. Try to enjoy your get-away. At least it should help pass the time.
Won't be all be happy when the holiday hoopla is over with?
Posted by daisym on December 29, 2004, at 22:53:44
In reply to I went, posted by Skittles on December 29, 2004, at 19:06:29
I'm glad your mom wasn't around. And I'm really glad you didn't hold back (too much anyway) and had a good talk with your therapist. And I'm super glad that you "have" to call her...I think a check in is a good thing.
I know what you mean about those emotional sessions setting off this wave of neediness. I hate that! But I think it is because talking about this stuff is traumatic in and of itself and we all need comfort after a trauma. Even little ones. One of the ways we process trauma is to talk about it. And if the session is a little trauma, then we want to talk about it. And who can we talk about it with? Our therapist! And so goes the circle. I tend to babble a lot after really emotional sessions, or I go looking for my on-line friends because I can be really honest with them. I think this is why I've decided morning sessions are not really for me. I'm too open and vulnerable afterwards to go back to work and be "the boss." Better to go back in the afternoon when it is quiet and I can keep to myself more.
Write a lot. We are here. Do you have internet access while you are away?
Posted by Skittles on December 30, 2004, at 11:38:11
In reply to Re: I went » Skittles, posted by daisym on December 29, 2004, at 22:53:44
No, sadly I will not be taking my laptop with me. I think my husband would kill me if I tried. We leave in the morning and will return on the 5th. I will miss all my babble friends terribly.
This is the end of the thread.
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