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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
ok. i'm really afraid to post this. afraid someone will see and "know" it's me. but i've pretty much hit bottom with nowhere else to go; no other options. i'm at the end of my rope with this and often wish when i am falling asleep that i just won't wake up. i keep coming back to this place over and over and nothing changes.
my issue is (or maybe it's all just made up) that i have a vague sense that something happened to me when i was young. no explicit memories, just a feeling. about two years ago, i had to cease having sex with my husband completely (unless i was drinking or abusing pills, which i like to do to stop the anxiety). our sex life was fine before that...great at the beginning of our relationship. and then it became a chore. and the last two years, aside from having no interest, it repulses me. when he touches me, i recoil. it grosses me out. makes me feel like i am going to throw up. i have unexplained vaginal pain... have been to the doctor and nothing is wrong. panic attacks and anxiety are the norm. i am afraid of the dark. when i am home alone, i am always afraid someone is watching me... i sort of sense this. when i get overwhelmed like that, it helps to sort of sit and rock back and forth and "space out." because i have no real memories, it makes me feel really crazy. i have weird pains in my legs and arms. when my husband rubs my neck, i get grossed out and feel like someone is going to choke me if i don't make him move his hand. i have to have my own comforter at night... i have to be swaddled in it and he has to use a separate blanket. at the beginning of all of this, i actually put pillows between us down the length of the bed so he absolutely could not touch me. if i go through with sex just to let him have his... i am numb and just waiting for it to be over. anyway, i was just wondering if anyone else has ever felt this but with no explicit memory of abuse. am i just crazy?
Posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:47:01
In reply to body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
that i suffer from unrelenting depression, anxiety, panic attacks that medications do not seem to help. the only thing that does are the benzos, which i abuse horribly at times to help me sleep. i have been on so many different kinds of meds but can't seem to stick with it. it seems like nothing can stop this. i've explained the physical symptoms in therapy, but with no memory... what do you do? and of course there are lots of other "clues" that could indicate that abuse did occur (though no idea who could have done it or what exactly happened... it's just a gross feeling that i get, combined with a lot of other traits shared by adult survivors of child sexual abuse). i'm afraid i'll never know and i will stay stuck in this hell forever. there's just no way out; nothing to process. i can't take it anymore! it only helps to be busy at work, eating, sleeping, drinking, drugging, raging, and sometimes cutting. i don't know what to do.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 12, 2004, at 20:38:17
In reply to forgot to add, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:47:01
What you are enduring is terribly hard. I am similiar to you, in that I always felt that *something* happened, but did not have any memory of it- just all the signs of chronic PTSD- like you. The thing that is working best in therapy is to re-experience the feelings- the fear, panic and shame- without trying to put definite memories to them. My T seems to think that getting in touch with those feelings, and sharing them with him, will be healing in itself. He also encourages me to let my mind go freely, and not to worry whether any thoughts which may come up are fantasies or realities. We know for sure that emotional neglect and physical abuse definitely happened. With the question of sexual abuse, it seems probable that it either did happen, or that as a little girl, I was terrified that it would.( I had a very punitive, narcissistic father, who sexualized all of my interactions with him) So we are concentrating on feelings, not exactly whether a particular thing did or didn't happen. Gradually, some real memories- just fragments- have come up, which makes us think that I do have additional unconscious memories of csa that I can't get to yet. I think it's a really good way to approach it, as I've at least gotten a lot of the feelings out to a trusted person. I am feeling better. Would this be an approach which might be helpful in your work with your T?
Posted by Daisym on November 12, 2004, at 21:25:51
In reply to Re: forgot to add » underthecs, posted by Pfinstegg on November 12, 2004, at 20:38:17
There are things that may have happened to you when you weren't verbal yet and as such they are held in your body and you don't have words for them. Have you ever done any body-memory work?
I agree with Pfinstegg, getting the feelings out without trying to pin a memory on them is one way to begin to feel better. I don't know what kind of therapy you are in, but sometimes you have to have really gone through the initial layer with someone before you get to the next one of more difficult memories.
It sounds like you were retraumatized by something two years ago that flip the switch. Maybe working back to that spot will help open up what is going on with you. These things are so difficult. I described my feelings when I started this process as being haunted by something or someone. It felt like someone died, only I didn't know who or when.
I hope you have someone to help you with all of this. I could never have done it alone. Hang in there. We are here for you.
Posted by JenStar on November 12, 2004, at 21:40:25
In reply to body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
underthecs,
I'm sorry that things are so rough. It sounds like you are so sad. (I don't know who you are, by the way! I didn't see that your post could really reveal personal details.)What was going on in your life 2 years ago?
Did you make a significant med change / addition / subtraction at that time? (Many meds cause sex to lose pleasure.)
Was there a life change, like new job/death in the family / baby / etc?
Is it possible that you just fell out of love with your husband, or out of "lust" with him, and that is why you don't want sex with him?
Usually it's a big event that triggers such physical symptoms. Can you recall anything that might have happened?
I personally don't believe in repressed memories. But there are many others (laypeople & experts) who DO believe in them, very firmly. I think you should trust your gut and your instincts to figure out what is going on, whether that means seeing a special therapist, trying hypnosis, etc.
Can you work with a therapist to find ways to move forward and get your life back on track?
I hope things get better. I'm sending well wishes your way. :)
JenStar
Posted by Aphrodite on November 13, 2004, at 8:08:57
In reply to body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
Whether you can determine the origin of your pain or not, you are definitely experiencing a horrible trigger. I am so sorry you are enduring so much pain. Have you discussed this with your T? There is a theory that every experience is stored in the body. My T uses EMDR for this. It concentrates on your emotions and feelings and asks for where you are feeling it in your body and then takes steps to release it. Someone else suggested hypnosis, which also might be helpful to uncover this. However, it seems like you need some ways to self-soothe in the meantime. Is there anything you can do to comfort yourself during this very painful time? Keep us updated.
Posted by 64bowtie on November 13, 2004, at 13:19:48
In reply to forgot to add, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:47:01
> the only thing that does are the benzos, which i abuse horribly at times to help me sleep. i have been on so many different kinds of meds but can't seem to stick with it.
><<< Please accept my sadness for your pain and heartache. No one could put up with all this any better than you have....
A thing or two I've learned counseling folks over the years is no remedy works without fault when you go at it at 100 miles an hour! We are all tired of being tired of being tired. I know that's me 15 years ago for sure. One reason or another I never got on that "train" I see others scrambling to get onto. I guess I was lucky I missed it.
Your MD or Pdoc has "lost an opportunity to help you" if the only relief made available to you is more, and more, and more meds. A little changes via meds coupled with group or individual therapy is a much more peaceful and studied approach. Peace is afterall a highest goal as I hear what you write.
By abdicating all remedy to "meds", your MD or Pdoc has not taken care to not mess-up your body chemistry. Toooo much of a good chemical always has bad body chemistry results. If you live near a medical college hospital (Stanford University would be nice), volunteer yourself for a body chemistry work-up and see if the list of meds you took when and for how long, is still causing chemical imbalances.
I side with the Neuro-science folks that assume we are all mostly OK at birth, but bad diets and our own bad attitudes cause great chemical stresses that show-up as catastrophes, sometimes.
Please enlist your spouse as an ally. Remember what it is about him you liked, and run with that.I have a probing question: Do you ever remember witnessing a loving relationship that lasted, such that you saw more than one face to it, but it endured no matter what? If you strip your feelings of love away from your relationship and you find nothing is left, I submit your feelings aren't love but another emotion, approval. Approval is conditional. Love is durable and unconditional by its nature.
As kids, this is all our little minds can muster, approval. We are genetically retooled around puberty to be so much more than we were as kids. Sometimes we need help understanding the changes.
This is "rubber-meets-the-road" feelings stuff, not a psychological precept found in the "DSM-IV" or textbooks. Your Mom could ask you the same question. I don't need your answer, you do.
Get your chemistry on track first. Alcoholics I have counselled took years to dry out, but eventually they did. They may have drank for 20, 30, or 40 years. They bounce back in three to five years, or perhaps their health "gets 'em" as they are trying to dry out.
I've witnessed 100's of successes. You could be next!
Rod
Posted by underthecs on November 13, 2004, at 14:13:51
In reply to 100 miles an hour in any direction » underthecs, posted by 64bowtie on November 13, 2004, at 13:19:48
you've misunderstood. i self-medicate with the drugs, ordering them through the internet if necessary. yes, I am in therapy but i freeze up and cannot talk. especially about something that doesn't exist in fact (it's only a guess). please don't post to me anymore. you've missed the point. perhaps that is partly my fault for not telling the whole story. but no, my therapist does not push meds only... just an antidepressant and buspar, which i do not take anyway. the "good stuff" is not obtained through my doctors. it is necessary to keep me alive at this point.
Posted by underthecs on November 13, 2004, at 14:16:03
In reply to Re: 100 miles an hour in any direction » 64bowtie, posted by underthecs on November 13, 2004, at 14:13:51
in addition to my regular therapist, i have been seeing an LCDC for the alcohol and drug abuse issues.
Posted by Poet on November 13, 2004, at 16:14:03
In reply to body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
Hi underethics,
Don't worry, you didn't reveal anything to me that would cause me to recognize you or not believe your feelings that something may have happened to you are genuine.
I have trouble talking in therapy, too. I gave my therapist a note last week with some of the painful things of my childhood. Maybe you could give your therapist a copy of what your wrote here? Even though the memory is hazy and you fear it's not valid, she would be able to see what is so upsetting to you without you having to talk out loud.
I have clear memories of some of the bad stuff my brother did to me (I know I'm vague, but like you, I fear being found out) and some things that might have happened, but I'm not sure. I don't think I will find out what the complete truth is unless I talk/write about it.
Think you can copy your post? You don't have to tell her it's from babble. I have never told my therapist about this site and hope she never finds it as she'd know me right away.
Hope I helped. Sorry for your pain. The pain is real.
Poet
Posted by antigua on November 15, 2004, at 13:31:35
In reply to body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
I just wrote you this very long reply and drat it, I lost it. I couldn't recreate it even if I tried.
I certainly don't think you're crazy; I've experienced many of the things you described! There are people who can help you--you can use babble email if I can be of help at all.
I've been where you are now. It's unbelievably painful and disorienting. As other posters have asked, do you know what triggered this two years ago? If you can begin there you will slowly find your way through this. For me, the trigger that unleashed the dam of emotions was when I went into a severe depression at the time my son would have been born if he hadn't died as the result of some medical tests I had undergone. I confused my relationship with my doctor to the point that I coudn't function. I know now that I was re-enacting earlier childhood relationships with adult figures but all I knew was that I felt out of control and couldn't understand what was going on.
Your experiences with sex are not unusual--nor is your disbelief. Denial is a very strong thing, and it served me very well when I was young and didn't know what to do. I still deny that I was sexually abused, but the facts get in the way now. As to body memories, I know what you're talking about. For the first time, one night last week I woke up screaming and yelling, fighting off imaginary attacker(s?). I've never done that before. I'm having many more physical memories now so please know you aren't alone.
You can post to us if it helps.
best,
antigua
Posted by underthecs on November 15, 2004, at 20:03:31
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger** » underthecs, posted by JenStar on November 12, 2004, at 21:40:25
no, nothing.
> What was going on in your life 2 years ago?
>
> Did you make a significant med change / addition / subtraction at that time? (Many meds cause sex to lose pleasure.)
>
> Was there a life change, like new job/death in the family / baby / etc?
>
> Is it possible that you just fell out of love with your husband, or out of "lust" with him, and that is why you don't want sex with him?
>
> Usually it's a big event that triggers such physical symptoms. Can you recall anything that might have happened?
>
> I personally don't believe in repressed memories. But there are many others (laypeople & experts) who DO believe in them, very firmly. I think you should trust your gut and your instincts to figure out what is going on, whether that means seeing a special therapist, trying hypnosis, etc.
>
> Can you work with a therapist to find ways to move forward and get your life back on track?
>
> I hope things get better. I'm sending well wishes your way. :)
>
> JenStar
>
>
>
>
Posted by antigua on November 16, 2004, at 9:46:13
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger** » JenStar, posted by underthecs on November 15, 2004, at 20:03:31
How long have you been married?
antigua
Posted by Daisym on November 16, 2004, at 12:49:07
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger** » JenStar, posted by underthecs on November 15, 2004, at 20:03:31
That was a pretty big, all encompassing "no" to so many questions.
I wish I knew what to say to help. These demons can grow so big. I'll keep you in my prayers.
Keep fighting and keep posting. Sometimes the truth can come out through your fingers. Just give in and let it.
We are here for you.
Posted by underthecs on November 16, 2004, at 20:43:02
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger** » underthecs, posted by Daisym on November 16, 2004, at 12:49:07
married 5 years. it's not really about him. of course him having to beg for sex and going w/o for most of the last 2 years has driven a wedge between us, but it's not about him.
what happened 2 years ago? well i didn't mention this becuz it didn't seem significant and there wasn't really a trigger. i was in a detox and after a few days there, started feeling weird body things. so i left after just a week, didn't really complete the program. was REALLY happy to see my husband when i got home, hypersexual even. then without warning, just a few days after i got home, these things started happening.
i'm really frustrated becuz i can't describe the physical "issues." when i try to put it into words, i either can't find the words, or i space out, go blank.
can't sleep at night w/o drinking or taking a xanax or two or 10. have tried lots of meds, nothing works except the addictive ones. i can sleep during the day, just not at night. which is only a problem because i have to work during the day. so sleeping at night would be great! no matter how tired i am, as soon as i think to myself how great it will be to get some sleep, i get to bed and it all starts. last night was the worst. sitting in bed with the light on, afraid to turn it off. feeling like someone was watching, hiding, going to get me. the breeze from the fan felt like someone breathing on me. felt like someone was going to sneak up behind me and grab me. i wrapped up in my comforter and left a little hole to breathe through. been doing that most of my life. now i can't even share the comforter w/my husband. he knows not to touch my "cocoon." but it's hard to fall asleep and harder to stay asleep and i'm so tired right now but i know what will happen if i try to go to bed again.
can't really talk about it in therapy. can only sit and cry about it at bedtime (and can really only cry if it's really scary, which has only been a handful of times). i always can't wait to go to therapy to be able to "dump" it, but when i get there i go blank, can't feel anything, am calm, feel like nothing is wrong. then when i leave i get angry about wasting the time and being an imposter; like there's this part of me that thinks everythings fine, but the part that knows something's wrong hides and comes out to taunt me when i leave (sort of like "ha! i'm not going to let you tell. nobody's going to know there's anything wrong. you are going to act normal in front of people"). well that just sort of came to me today. i don't really say that to myself; nor do i "hear" that. it just helps me explain what is going on, i think. having said that, there's really nothing wrong. except that my brain thinks there is or something. i don't know. i'm tired. thank you all for listening and responding. i just don't have it in me to respond to anyone personally right now. i'm just so tired of this. i want to die! there's just no escaping it.
sorry if some of this is repetitive. i can't really go back and read my other posts.
Posted by PoohBear on November 19, 2004, at 11:29:46
In reply to body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 12, 2004, at 19:41:02
This sounds like dissociative identity disorder, which used to be called multiple personality disorder.
There are many different variations, depending on the severity, for some, there are distinct personalities resident and for others (like me, there is more of a fractured personality.
Like PTSD, DID is a defense mechanism of the mind to trauma, but unlike PTSD, it usually ocurrs to chlidren who have been, physically, verbally, and or sexually abused before the age of 12, but especially before the age of 5.
DID is being found more and more to be the underlying condition behind depression, bipolar and other pyschiatric disorders.
There is a test that you can do online that you can print out and give to your therapist:
http://www.traumasurvival.org/des.shtml
This is something that is new to me. I am undergoing treatment with a specialist in DID. It is important to note that not all therapists "believe" in DID. If you research it, it does seem fantastic. I underwent severe childhood physical and emotional/verbal abuse and neglect which I am just now, at 47, trying to come to grips with.
It is very possible that you would have no specific memories of abuse, because they are buried, too painful for your mind to deal with.
You aren't crazy.
Tony
Posted by PoohBear on November 19, 2004, at 11:35:23
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 16, 2004, at 20:43:02
Underthecs:
The above post was for you. Feel free to Babblemail me if you want...
Tony
Posted by antigua on November 20, 2004, at 9:47:36
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger**, posted by underthecs on November 16, 2004, at 20:43:02
With all due respect, I think the detox was a trigger for you. Maybe you could try that again first--get clean and then deal with your demons. They will surface when you aren't hiding behind the drugs. I speak from experience so please know I am not judging you.
antigua
Posted by underthecs on November 20, 2004, at 15:41:14
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger** » underthecs, posted by antigua on November 20, 2004, at 9:47:36
> With all due respect, I think the detox was a trigger for you. Maybe you could try that again first--get clean and then deal with your demons. They will surface when you aren't hiding behind the drugs. I speak from experience so please know I am not judging you.
> antiguaantigua:
yes, i am clean again now and it's getting worse.
Posted by antigua on November 20, 2004, at 18:32:13
In reply to Re: body memories **may trigger** » antigua, posted by underthecs on November 20, 2004, at 15:41:14
It can be like a rollercoaster, but please try to hang in there. I hate it when I've been told "It will get worse" before it gets better, but I always worry about keeping the lid on during the ride. I haven't always been able to, but I'm making progress. Hope you do too.
If I can be of any help, please let me know.
antigua
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