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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mmcconathy on September 7, 2004, at 22:01:19
Ok, listen this is serious i dont know what's going on.
This was stupid, but a while ago i was just in a state of incredible stress with a situation going on and i begged Ritchie to switch with me. I couldnt take it, i said he would consider it.
Right now i dont feel right, i feel like im on "automated pilot". I still feel like im matt, but then ill look at something and ill say, "that must be matt's", and i hear someone speaking to me in 1st person, asking me questions about where i was, my reactions are chagning to things, i dont know if im still me.
I just asked Ritchie where are you? He siad im here, with you. Ok, i dont know but i dont want to experiment with any of this personality crap, forget it, im scared i may lose control. I asked him whats going on, he said he's helping me.
Right before this happned i got that rush of that siezure coming on, i almost felt like i blacked out, then i just sort of woke up, but i never blacked out! i just felt like i was in 3rd person.
Right now i just asked him please, dont switch with me, he said, "fine, i told you this wanst a good idea", "i want you to handle it as matt"I asked him if he swithed and he didnt awnser.
Im starting to feel a little back to normal, i mean, i dont know, i dont think it happned, maybe it was just my mind playing games with me, like a placebo effect. Maybe. I hope.
My thinking chagned from what it usally processes, i was just laying in the bed, had no energy, i just asked Ritch please, i need you help, do something, and all of a sudden that siezure came on, but didnt feel i was acutally operating, like I said "auto-pilot", it was wierd, i dont know if i switched for a couple of minuetes or not, but i felt like i wasnt controling anymore, i dont know if Ritchie was or not, he wont awnser!
Im NOT doing that again, i may need to tell my therapist, Ritchie i know would not harm me, he's more like a dad taht watches out for his son, mixed with a big brother.
Ill keep you updated,
i dont think dissociation can happen, only in MPD i m not for sure.
But please give me your advice.
Posted by tinydancer on September 8, 2004, at 1:34:19
In reply to urgent situation, posted by mmcconathy on September 7, 2004, at 22:01:19
This sounds like a definite disassociative episode, but if you are able to negotiate and switch with another personality then the question is definitley raised if you might have MPD. I have MPD, and what you describe sounds very familiar. It is nothing to be afraid of, but I think it sounds like you are really struggling and need to get in to your T as soon as possible. Please keep us posted about how you are doing. Hugs from TinyD
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 8, 2004, at 3:17:58
In reply to urgent situation, posted by mmcconathy on September 7, 2004, at 22:01:19
I feel you know the answer deep inside.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 9, 2004, at 17:31:29
In reply to Re: urgent situation, posted by Shadowplayers721 on September 8, 2004, at 3:17:58
I agree with shaddows. You asked a while back whether your friend was a sign of mental illness. I wrote that I thought that it was not because it wasn't distressing to you. The notion of 'switching' or 'hosting' whether it is co-conscious or whether you miss time when it happens does sound like MPD / DID, however. I think that diagnosis isn't a black and white issue in terms of whether you meet the criteria or not. I think that there are funny borderline cases and it is hard to know what to say about them. The definition of mental illness includes the notion of distress, though, so without that it is probably pointless to wonder about which criteria you do or do not meet.
If you do want to host or switch, however, then the concern that I would have would be that your friend may start to be called on more and more frequently as you are anxious about your ability to handle different situations. After a time he may well start to take on a 'life of his own' and that may cause you significant distress if he develops goals and beliefs that are too radically divergent from yours (which is what tends to happen as you segment parts of yourself off to him that you cannot cope with).
All this is just my opinion, but it sounds to me like you are at a cross-roads. This can be made better or worse depending on the decisions you make (or perhaps depending on how bad the anxiety is for you in dealing with various situations). I don't think that there is anything amis with using your friend to cheerlead you and help you build the courage to tackle situations with his companionship. But if you are serious about the switching / hostingn idea, then you sound MPD / DID to me. What else did you take MPD / DID to be?
I hope things work out okay for you, I really do. Hang in there :-)
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:36:58
In reply to Re: urgent situation, posted by alexandra_k on September 9, 2004, at 17:31:29
>
> After a time he may well start to take on a 'life of his own' and that may cause you significant distress if he develops goals and beliefs that are too radically divergent from yours (which is what tends to happen as you segment parts of yourself off to him that you cannot cope with).You are the first person I've ever heard express the idea that I struggle so much with!! I can't tell you how much it means to me to feel like someone gets it! I almost feel poleaxed, but in a good way.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 9, 2004, at 18:38:59
In reply to Oh, Alexandra!, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 17:36:58
That is exactly how I felt when you responded to me a while back.
I feel like I am at the cross-roads myself. But maybe the decision has been made for me, and it is the DID route and I am very afraid about that, and what is going to happen with my treatment. I am afraid that I am going to get much, much worse before I get better, but I can't face what they do sometimes, it is just too painful to me.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:05:48
In reply to Re: Oh, Dinah!, posted by alexandra_k on September 9, 2004, at 18:38:59
I'm glad to hear one of my posts affected you.
I know it seems scary, but I think it's so hopeful that you'll finally get some treatment that won't invalidate your experience. I've really been feeling a lot of sympathy for you having to deal with the system you have to deal with.
I'm going to print out your post and bring it with me to therapy. I do hear that sort of thing from my therapist, I suppose. But he's just mirroring me. It meant so much to see what I've been trying to articulate from another's perspective.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 2:44:41
In reply to Alexandra, posted by Dinah on September 9, 2004, at 21:05:48
There are no promices on the treatment at this stage. Just a line of attempted action. It has to get through a funding committee from this end. P-doc is hoping that he can send a summary / letter of reccomendation down to them and hopefully they will be keen to take on my case. That will help things from this end. The other option is to find a specialist in private practice from this end, and fund that for me. My P-doc is unwilling to make the diagnosis and he is hoping that someone who would be willing to make the diagnosis would also be willing to treat me.
I had kind of thought of them as imaginary friends before, but I am afraid of the knowledge that they have of what stuff this body gets up to sometimes. I know that I have to become aware of it before I have a chance of stopping it.
I just can't fact it or them. I push, but mostly they pull. There are choice points, but they are fleeting. And I push.
Posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 11:26:23
In reply to Dinah, posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 2:44:41
I realized that Ritchie, after i went crazy to my therapist, that i thought i dont know what was happening.
He spoke directly with Ritchie, but i realized that rithie did not swich, "completely" with me, because his personality is not fully developed, you see. He has charasteristics about his personality, its not sophisticated enought to acutally "pilot" or host for me.
We then came to a concluestion that it was a dissociative episode, sort or out of reality, Ritchie may have had some control but, but i was feeling "emotions" of hosting as if i was still me, but at the same time i was in 3rd person and felt "pushed aside".
Ritchie said he doesnt know, that i didnt know what i was doing either, which really i didnt.
For a person with MPD, when they switch, is it frightning, do they have dissociative episodes? Can they control it?
How really is dissociative realated to MPD?
Thanks.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2004, at 11:33:07
In reply to Re: it was a dissociative attack, posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 11:26:23
It seems like you had a pretty functional arrangement as it was. If I understand it correctly, it was working pretty well for you and helping you function well in the real world.
Why would you want to risk that by kicking it up a notch? Why is it important that you try to get Ritchie to "host"? It doesn't seem like it's something Ritchie is asking to do, but something you're asking him to do. I'm not really understanding the potential benefits, I suppose.
Posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 11:39:57
In reply to Re: it was a dissociative attack, posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 11:26:23
Could these dissociative episdoes, could be caused beause i was trying to "split" myself.
See my problem im realizing is that i want to change my self, my personality, i want to become more extroverted. I want to have more charasteristics to myself. But i feel i cant fit it into one.
I am tempted to create other, personanality's or Idenity's that i can control of course. Ritchie in a way has charasteristics that i want, but they just dont go with me, that's why i look up to him. He has a a overwhelming confident personality, not quite an egomaniac, but is sure of himself.
But in a way i do want to be Ritchie, but im not bonding it to myself, im serpating him and me into 2 seperate Idenity's, because it just seems intresting to have someone to switch with.
Please put your advice, i need it.
Also, can doing this, splitting myself, cause permement neurological damage, can it be cured?
Thanks, sorry for the abstract questions.
Matt
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2004, at 12:12:59
In reply to Re: one more question, posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 11:39:57
> But in a way i do want to be Ritchie, but im not bonding it to myself, im serpating him and me into 2 seperate Idenity's, because it just seems intresting to have someone to switch with.
Believe me, there's nothing *inherently* interesting in switching, despite what you see in the movies. It's really nothing like Sybil. It can be enormously mundane. If you do find that it is interesting, it might not be interesting in a way you'd like. The reactions you get might not be the reactions you're hoping for. There's a fair amount of negative stereotyping out there, and not all of it the exciting sort of negative stereotyping. The current "wisdom" is more that the disorder doesn't exist at all, and you'll be just as likely to be met with skepticism and negativity. It's not an easy diagnosis to live with. If a multiple is who you are, I think it's important to acknowledge it and be met with respect. But I would never encourage anyone to try to be multiple on purpose.
Moreover there are wonderful ways to make yourself interesting. Ways that involve growth and learning and learning to be interested in others. Regardless of neurological possibilities, I'd think those ways would be a better bet.
Introversion/extroversion isn't a good or bad thing. It's a relatively stable characteristic from birth. Introverts can have exciting lives and important fulfilling relationships. You don't have to be someone you aren't to have a terrific life. You might want to find ways to bring out the best in yourself. To have the very best life you can. To reach out to others and discover meaningful relationships. But that doesn't mean that you have to become someone else to do it. You're fine as you are, and don't you want the people who grow to love you to love the real you?
What are some of your interests? What are you passionate, or at least enthusiastic, about? What sort of connection with others are you yearning for?
Posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 18:56:39
In reply to Re: one more question, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2004, at 12:12:59
I miss time when I switch. It is like I curl up inside myself but I am removed, like I am kind of behind my body. I lose the information coming in through my senses so that I can't hear and I can't see and I can't feel anything. Sometimes I can retreat volountarily, sometimes it happens involuntarily. It is terrifying when I get 'stuck' and I can't come back, but I can't go away for a while either.
I miss time when I switch and I don't know what the body is up to. I would not wish that on anyone. I later find evidence that I have done things that I would never do and that I do not approve of. Such as drug abuse, sexual activity, self harm, reckless driving etc. Sometimes I have glimpses of co-consciousness, but my experience is that we segment off what we cannot face and that takes on a life of its own. Quite often it is like living in a nightmare that you cannot wake up from properly. I repeat, I would not wish this on anyone.
Posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 21:25:22
In reply to Re: it was a dissociative attack » mmcconathy, posted by Dinah on September 10, 2004, at 11:33:07
I am doing good in some social situations, Track, school, as i said Ritchie is a side kick that helps here and there.
In a way i thought it would be great to just switch with ritch and let him take care of my problems with his extreme confident personality. I dont know if its possible yet becuase his personality doesnt have a background to be a "full" personality, like desires, preferences. Ritchie in my view is extroverted with much of his surroundings, female magnet, witty, but is understanding to help. He's cocky in his own way but its not insulting.
If a personality is a nice person, are they easy to switch with, do you know when you can switch?
What does it feel like during an entire switch?
Thanks
Matt
Posted by alexandra_k on September 10, 2004, at 22:23:16
In reply to Re: does MPD cause nuerological change?, posted by mmcconathy on September 10, 2004, at 21:25:22
> I dont know if its possible yet becuase his personality doesnt have a background to be a "full" personality, like desires, preferences. Ritchie in my view is extroverted with much of his surroundings, female magnet, witty, but is understanding to help. He's cocky in his own way but its not insulting.
They become a 'fuller' personality over time, as they get more time in control and / or as you communicate with them more, they develop and grow. My alters (friends) are very different from me. One handles the social situations around using drugs and having casual sexual relationships, a real 'party girl' which is pretty much an antithesis of me. Another takes care of work related stuff, and so forth.
> If a personality is a nice person, are they easy to switch with, do you know when you can switch?
I don't know whether there is a difference depending on whether they are 'nice' or 'nasty'. Mine aren't black and white either nice or nasty, there is aspects of both in each of them (and in me as well).
>
> What does it feel like during an entire switch?Like I said, mostly switching isn't volountary for me. When I switch I curl up into this place inside of me, and I guess it is like a dreamless sleep. I come around, and then assess the situation to figure out how much time I have lost and what I have been up to and so forth.
Have you ever read "The Solitare Mystery"? In that book he creates some characters, kind of imaginary friends to help him deal with his lonliness, and lack of social companionship. After a time, one especially (the Joker) takes on a life of his own and becomes a source of misery and anxiety. Keep your friend as a friend. Don't try to become him or let him take over. See him as a source of strength, and one day come to realise that he is a part of you. In my opinion it is playing with fire to try to become him, or to let him take control. Of course, I am full of good advice. I have chosen one path, but am attempting to reccomend the other path to you. I hope that you can talk to your T honestly about your questions and concerns.
Regarding neurological change, I think that it is fair to say that the jury is still out on that one. I think there is an article in New Scientist by Apter. He maintains that there is a significant neurological difference when a subject with DID switches into an alter, as opposed to a 'fictional' switch into an imaginary character.
But what is the significance of this finding if we do indeed grant it? Do some alters choose not to access some memories? Are some alters unable to access some memories? All it shows is that some alters do not access those memories (if we grant that memories are localised in the cortex).
I wish you the best in luck, and look foward to hearing from you more.
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