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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
I've had a really tough couple of weeks...months actually. I have been really learning how to use therapy and let myself need my Therapist. OK, maybe I've been learning to admit to myself how much I need my Therapist. He's been great, especially last week and the week before when I was having major melt downs. We've had a lot of sessions and a lot of phone contact and I really felt like I was in the middle of a full-on crisis. It was so overwhelming - not only the content of the crisis but enormity of my neediness. He didn't flinch, didn't disappoint and didn't desert me. He called back every time and sometimes just listened to me cry.
Monday I gave my Therapist some writings about all the memories that had pushed up and we talked about how it felt to have all of this surface, including another voice in me. It wasn't an easy session, but it wasn't any harder than the previous weeks. But after it, I felt quiet. Not completely calm but somehow like I had reached the eye of the storm and wanted to stay there for a while. This has continued for the rest of the week.
So today when I saw him, I told him I felt like I had nothing to say. That I didn't want to waste a session but I think my psyche was taking a break. But I was worried about the connection we had built -- would it lessen without the crisis? Would I only allow myself to need him if I was in crisis? Would he be interested, engaged, when I was "doing OK"? Because I didn't want to be unconsciously creating drama to make it OK for me to need him. But I also didn't want him to decide we were done, because I don't feel ready for that.
His response was to gently tell me we have "a ways to go" in therapy. That we really have just started to bring all this stuff out, and so I don't need to worry about him thinking I'm done. But he thought the question of drama and crisis was a good one. He reassured me that he was interested in everything going on, not just past stuff and not just "bad" stuff. That it was OK to take a break from some of the really hard stuff and in fact, it was essential. But that didn't mean I couldn't still need him, couldn't call him if I needed him, even if it wasn't a crisis. He wants the connection to stay strong and be OK all the time. He even went over his thoughts about termination, just to reassure me how it would come about, if we ever get there! He did warn me that it was likely to get hard again, that we would cycle through this. And that was OK. It wasn't back sliding, it was just the nature of therapy.
It was a really good conversation and a very calming session. I feel like I can carry him with me, even when I'm smiling, not just when I'm hurting. Like I'm allowed to smile and still need therapy.
I know this sounds weird but has anyone else ever felt this? This cycle of feeling really awful, really needy and then better again? And wondering if you can need your Therapist, even when you aren't in crisis? I'd like to hear about experiences. It helps me evaluate mine.
Posted by Rigby on February 26, 2004, at 23:59:16
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
Hi Daisy,
Your therapist sounds *great.*
I can understand you wondering if, when the drama and intensity fade, things will change somehow but, like any I think good relationship, the person will be there for the intense times and the less intense times. Relationships, therapy included I think, are made up of ebbs and flows. It's a good model for relationships working outside the therapy room too to have confidence that someone can be there for the tough times as well as the better times. Relationships only based upon drama are for me sort of fake--and in some ways you don't get to know the whole person--only the person in crisis.
I felt amazingly connected to my therapist at first and there was a pretty strong attraction between us. It was intense. And I think the attraction for both of us was in some way connected to that pure intensity. But that had its season and she reeled in her boundaries and then things, over time, calmed down. Then several months ago I had a few weeks of intensity but that calmed down after about a week or two and it's been quite low key now. My experience is the more you face the dependency head-on with your therapist, the harder it feels at the time but the faster you get through it--it's freeing too.
Anyway, it sounds like you're doing *great*--congrats!!!!
Rigby
Posted by All Done on February 27, 2004, at 0:22:22
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
(((Daisy))),
It sounds like you've been so strong through all of this and I agree with Rigby - you're therapist sounds wonderful.
In the relatively short time I've been in therapy, I've gone through a couple of difficult life changing situations. Crises, if you will. Both times, my therapist has been there for me and held my hand through it all even when I wasn't thinking clearly enough to know that I needed him. It wasn't until recently, when things had calmed down, that I really realized how much I needed (and still need) him. The connection feels even stronger, now. He's shown me he will be there whether I feel I need him or not. Plus, now that we're not doing crisis management, there's more time for discussing our relationship and what it means to me and that's an important part of therapy (at least according to my psychodynamically oriented therapist.)
That's been my experience. I wish you well during this difficult stretch. Take care of yourself.
All Done
Posted by tabitha on February 27, 2004, at 0:44:38
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
I was a needy and distressed client for many years. I had the fear that my therapist wouldn't care about me unless I was having a crisis, and I even went so far as to think she wanted me to be sick because she somehow got off on caring for desperate people. It was a long time before I was ever out of the pit enough to see how she would respond to a less crisis-ridden me. I learned she is equally responsive and 'there' for me when I'm stable or even working on positive growth things, rather than just doing crisis management. It was hard to believe, because I had non-therapy relationships that really did deteriorate when I wasn't so sick anymore. So... the moral of the story is you might be surprised to find your therapist can support you all along the way.. from crisis to stability to growth.
Posted by rs on February 27, 2004, at 6:18:15
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
Oh Daisy. This will be fast have to leave for work. Will post more later but want to say your a wonderful person who is carrying a heavy load. Many hugs to you.
Your T is wonderful. Here T is also very good. But have a hard time to reach out to him. When in crisis he does now call right back but feel nothing. So will just stay alone during what is going on instead of reaching out. Well alone in certain ways. You have him and he will be there for you no matter what. You deserve a break in life and he willing to give you that by caring much for you. Have a good day. Hope it goes ok for you. Remember baby steps my friend.
Posted by Karen_kay on February 27, 2004, at 9:14:06
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
Oh definetely Daisy. I go through cycles of needyness all the time, but mostly just while a "crisis" of sorts in the midst. However, I tend to down-play my crisis and just make small talk or call him to check an appointment time, even when I need to talk. I don't want to be too needy.
When I had my flashback, I called him several times that week, but under the guise of changing appointments around. And now, since he told me I may be referred out, I call him an hour after sessions to argue about what happened, ect. It seems the only time I ever call him is when I have some sort of crisis, but I always disguise it as something else, as "I'm not supposed to have a crisis, I'm not supposed to need him, I'm not even sure what constitutes a crisis, ect"
Posted by DaisyM on February 27, 2004, at 10:45:42
In reply to Re: Needing Your Therapist/Cycles » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on February 27, 2004, at 9:14:06
Karen,
I have to go to work, but wanted to respond to your post right away. I will get back here today for the others...I still cringe when I think about how needy I can get and how clingy it must feel for my Therapist. The turning point for me was when he straight out told me that learning to call him and tell him what was going on, was part of MY therapy. We've had a million talks about abandonment, being strong for everyone else, doing it yourself, etc., etc. But it has gotten more and more apparent that the huge empty feeling inside is an intense longing for intimacy. And I was hurt so young and so deeply that it has always been too scary to really let anyone in to see my needs. So they never got met.
So, I force myself to call when I'm feeling rotten or scared. Sometimes I just say, "I'm not doing well" and he usually responds with a simple, "tell me what's going on" and I swear I almost always say, "I don't know, I just feel like I'm going into the black hole again" and he will then back me up and we will walk through the past hours or days to find out the trigger, or understand what the feelings are and why they have emerged. It is typical for me to try to wiggle away from this exploration with a lot of "I guess it JUST is... or I'm probably just..." and he tells me don't dismiss it, don't repress it or just to stay with it and try to sort out the feelings. Sometimes he says just go ahead and cry and sometimes we can't figure out what is wrong but he reminds me he is in "it" with me, whatever it is. And he always says, "I'm glad you called me." And it helps. A lot.
But I still have to force myself, EVERY TIME, to pick up that phone and ADMIT I need him. You will probably need to do this too, force yourself. It is scary, because it makes you so vulnerable. For me, having him tell me it was part of my therapy made it the right thing to do, and I always try to do the right thing. LOL
*sigh* I wish I could tell you it was getting easier but I still worry about bugging him, about being the pain-in-the-a** client...you know the list. But since therapy is suppose to be about me, and since I now know the fastest way to put myself back together is to call him, I do it.I don't know if this helps or not. but opening yourself up can be OK, even if it is scary. (I'm amazed as I type this that I'm typing this. Growth? or maybe just a calm day?)
Posted by Racer on February 27, 2004, at 11:03:43
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
I go through a lot of the "manufacturing crisis" questions in my mind, and that's one of the things I will be bringing up in my first session with my new therapist next week. I've been through similiar cycles with therapy in the past, and haven't really answered that for myself, but a short story I read helped me make a mental picture of how the cycles work.
The story, which is a great story anyway, is The Fullness Of Life, by Edith Wharton. In it, she describes the mind as a house of many rooms, the living room, where people come and go as they list, etc. In her story, there is a locked room, where the soul sits apart, waiting for a knock that may never come, the knock of that kindred soul. It's a beautiful story, and one I reread now and again for the small strength it offers me.
Here's the mini-theory it brought to me: therapy is like a house of many rooms, set up like those old railroad flats. There are corridors running through it, with doors, both locked and unlocked, and the therapeutic process involves opening those doors and deciding which rooms need to be cleaned out. Some of the doors hide really frightening things, some of the rooms only need a light dusting. When you're exhausted by cleaning out a really difficult room, sometimes you need to pick a tidy one to enter next. Sort of like climbing a terraced hillside -- you need great energy to get up the grades, but then you have a little plateau to rest on before you tackle the next stage. Having company on the plateaus is so pleasant, and your therapist seems comfortable and happy to provide that.
Sounds as if your therapist is a very good match for you, and I'm so glad of it.
Posted by shortelise on February 27, 2004, at 12:51:45
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
Daisy, It made me feel really happy to read your post. It sounds like you have a good therapist. I've been through the same sort of thing with mine, upheavals and then periods of calm. For me, I'd need to talk about the weather for a bit before I could start to process what the crisis had meant, and talk about those things. It is progress.
ShortE
Posted by mair on February 27, 2004, at 12:56:57
In reply to Re: Needing Your Therapist/Cycles » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on February 27, 2004, at 10:45:42
My therapist recently suggested that maybe she should make it a homework assignment to call her in between sessions. She thinks I have a lot of trouble expressing my needs to other people and that I tend to keep my distance from her and others for fear of overwelming them with my neediness. I really do resist making a real connection with her; I pretty much convince myself on a regular basis that I'm of no importance to her and shouldn't unnecessarily burden her. It's taken years for me to admit that I'm pretty dependent on being able to meet with her twice a week - and even when I can admit my dependency I construct it as a dependency on therapy but not a dependency on her.
We've had tons of discussions about my reluctance to call her. I used to think that I really shouldn't call her unless I was literally on the verge of committing suicide. She keeps trying to convince me that I don't have feel suicidal to call her - pretty basic stuff but still problematical for me. I think part of the reluctance is also an uncertainty about what the conversation would be. I have a hard enough time talking about feelings in therapy; I think it would be so much harder on the telephone.
It sounds as if you've really been progressing - I hope I'll get there some day but it does sometimes seem like too high a hill to climb.
Mair
Posted by terrics on February 27, 2004, at 17:54:59
In reply to Needing Your Therapist/Cycles, posted by DaisyM on February 26, 2004, at 23:43:08
It sounds like you have a wonderful and insightful therapist. I think we all cycle through just about everything, but your T. is wise enough and strong enough to know this and deal with it. It also seems to me that you too are pretty sharp and not afraid to discuss your concerns with him. terrics
Posted by obSession on February 27, 2004, at 19:32:31
In reply to Re: Needing Your Therapist/Cycles » DaisyM, posted by terrics on February 27, 2004, at 17:54:59
sounds like u therapist is amazing.....u r lucky be happy abt that as im sure u r.
i said to my therapist i sumtiems go threw problem lists in my mind and think maybe i should find a problem to have but i dont its just a mental thing like i will think maybe i should starve myself and get an eating disorder sounds bad i know. i dont actually do it.
read a book called "the best little girl in the world" its kewl ...its abt an eating disorder even though i dont have one the therapist is great in the book and this relationship develops and client gets ocd and stuff and its great ...it talks about needing a therapist and stuff and the therapist says "u dont have to be sick to get my attention" i highly recommend it , its a sweet little book! it intrigued me maybe will do the same for u :0
i experience the cycle all the timeeeeeeeeeeeU R NOT ALONE TRUST ME ON THAT!
Posted by tinydancer on February 28, 2004, at 3:04:38
In reply to Re: Needing Your Therapist/Cycles » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on February 27, 2004, at 9:14:06
I totally understand. I am really careful not to lean too heavily on him, as tempting as it is. I try to only contact him outside of appointments when there is a crisis. I bombed on that one last week, when I went to see him to ask a question about sick leave. I emailed him to ask him if that was bad and he didn't reply to that question exactly so I guess it was okay.
Right now I'm only in one session a week, although its about 90 minutes. We keep in contact through email, which I really appreciate, makes me feel that I'm not out to sea alone.
But I agree with KarenKay, I really try hard not to be "too needy". I don't want to take advantage of his kindness or do anything to negatively affect the great working relationship we have now.
This is the end of the thread.
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