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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Karen_kay on January 29, 2004, at 15:20:18
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Penny on January 29, 2004, at 15:07:37
(((Miss Honey)))
Oh girl, I'm so sorry :( But, from what I've read many therapists do keep any type of letters from clients in the files. And Bean does stick to his rather strict boundaries. Though I'm sure he does take the letter home with him at night and put it up next to his nightstand, only to return it back to the file before his supervisor can see it the next day.I'm sorry. Why don't you talk to him about it. I really think it would do you some good to air this dirty laundry out. Have you discussed anything about the letter and your feelings (or avoidance or no feelings or Whatever) towards him. I know you briefly skipped over it in the past. Why not revisit the issue? It isn't nearly that hard. I promise!
I've noticed my file has become increasing full. I'm just too afraid to sneak a peek. I'd rather not know.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 15:28:03
In reply to I'll have a talk with Bean.. » Penny, posted by Karen_kay on January 29, 2004, at 15:20:18
O God, the image of him taking that card home with him every night sure is a wonderful image. I'll have to cling to that one :)
I know I'm not supposed to feel this way, but I just don't want to make him uncomfortable. Transference I know is not his forte. And while I don't have the crush on him I used to (I am fickle it seems), I certainly do love him. He's picky about dependence too and I feel like if I bring up the love thing he'll think I'm too dependent on him (which I am not). But I know he works for me and I have no problem telling others this advice, but when it comes to me, it seems to be a different story.
And I'll feel like such a fool bringing up the card. I wish I could get over feeling this way.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 29, 2004, at 15:52:27
In reply to Re: I'll have a talk with Bean.. » Karen_kay, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 15:28:03
I hoped that image might cheer you up a bit.
I agree that transference wasn't my therapist's forte either (Huh, you say.) but when I kept trying to cling to it, he kept saying, "Why do you keep bringing this up?" And after we discussed it enough and I felt comfortable somehow my feelings for him weren't nearly as intense.
While I admit still that my therapist is attractive, I wouldn't do anything with him at all. Nope! I still have naughty thoughts, but that's because my old man's a jerk. Besides, my therapist is better looking.I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the reason that you are hurt about the card is because you wanted to show you appreciation and he used it as a clinical "tool." Just something to add to your record, without even saying, "Thanks for the card, kiss my butt, ect." And that's understandable. Is this something that you have a problem with outside of this relationship, feeling taken for granted, or perhaps not being appreciated? If it is, I highly suggest you talk to him about your feelings.
As for the dependency issue...You think that he'll see you as too dependent if you bring this matter up? If he does, then he does. You can't control how he views you anyway. But a certain level of attachment with a therapist is ideal. It doesn't sound to me like you are dependent on him. I hardly think he'll get that idea.
We all want to be special to our therapist. I just happen to know I am (I'm crappy, aren't I :).... But, it honestly sounds to me like Bean holds firm to his rules and that's why he stuck the letter in your file. (Didn't you also say he never makes physical compliments or anything like that. He's The Enforcer. That should be his new nickname) Don't worry about making him uncomfortable. Crap, if I worried about making my therapist uncomfortable, I don't think I'd have anything to talk about :) Most of our hour is spent in discomfort, though he says I don't make him uncomfortable and he is a bad liar so I believe him.
Talk about it. I'm going to ask my therapist to be my mentor next week, as I'm lacking motivation. I'm sure he'll turn me down and suggest a professor. (What's the responsibility of a mentor anyway?) But, I haven't met a goodlooking professor yet. Guess we'll see how that turns out?
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 29, 2004, at 16:25:08
In reply to Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 14:43:05
I can feel your feelings as I sit here writing this, for sure. I hope the card and letter turn out to be a good thing....
I learned when I was 16 and loaned my older brother $60 I had earned at $1.25 per hour (minimum wage) after school. He went out and bought all kinds of food stuff that my Mom and I couldn't begin to even want. I blew my stack, ranting and raving to the point of embarassing myself. I resolved the experience in my mind later that week by noting that I can never again hold someone in contempt for how they use my gift. By giving it over to them, I abdicate my management imperative (control) over how they use my gift.
Of course I can resolve to never make that mistake again.
'course, 'ats jes' me....[:^)
Rod
Posted by Karen_kay on January 29, 2004, at 16:30:13
In reply to Re: Please help! Boy, do I know how ya feel » Miss Honeychurch, posted by 64Bowtie on January 29, 2004, at 16:25:08
Oh, Rod... And I so wanted to be friends....
Though I can understand what the point is that you are saying, it just doesn't come across so well, you know??
Posted by EmmyS on January 29, 2004, at 17:19:19
In reply to Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 14:43:05
Just because he is a therapist with strict boundaries, that does not mean he can avoid basic good manners. Someone does something nice - you say the magic words, "Thank you". To me, it seems respectful to acknowledge the card and letter.
I'd bring it up, and ask why he didn't mention it. It would seem that he is avoiding a discussion on the contents of the letter for some reason. T's aren't supposed to avoid. That's the patient's job. :-)
Emmy
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 21:05:53
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by EmmyS on January 29, 2004, at 17:19:19
Posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2004, at 22:44:46
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by EmmyS on January 29, 2004, at 17:19:19
Miss Honey,
I'm so sorry you are in this position. You would think that T's would at least acknowledge receiving the card, whether they say anything else or not. After all, boundaries or no, T's are human beings as well. What does it show about basic humanity and social interaction to ignore a gift?I hope if you get a chance to talk to him about your feelings regarding this incident that it goes well. I don't think it shows worrisome dependence at all. Your feelings would be hurt if anyone else treated your gift so callously, why shouldn't they be hurt in this situation?
Take care,
gg
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 29, 2004, at 23:19:16
In reply to Re: Please help! Boy, do I know how ya feel » 64Bowtie, posted by Karen_kay on January 29, 2004, at 16:30:13
Posted by thewriteone on January 30, 2004, at 0:38:30
In reply to Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 14:43:05
I gave my T something I wrote for her early on in our relationship, and she read it and gave it back to me. She said if she kept it, she would have to put it in my file. It's like a rule, at least for her, but maybe for all T's?
Posted by All Done on January 30, 2004, at 0:43:38
In reply to Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 14:43:05
Miss Honey,
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad about this. It stinks that Bean didn't give your letter the respect it deserved when you first gave it to him. Would it be too hard for you to ask him if he could take it out of your file and you could read it to him? I know that probably sounds overwhelming, but it sounds like you put your heart and soul into writing it and I'm guessing you could learn a lot if you discuss everything you wrote and the attached emotions.
If that's too hard, though, maybe just stick to asking him what he thought about it and discussing your frustration that it ended up in your file.
Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
(((((Miss Honey)))))
All Done
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 1:05:17
In reply to Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 29, 2004, at 14:43:05
I think All Done's suggestion was great.
I have never been polite enough to give my therapist a card, or write a note of thanks. But the note of thanks would definitely end up in my file. I'm not sure a generic Christmas card would, but if it didn't it would end up in the circular file after Christmas I'm sure. Come to think of it, I've never seen any cards in his office, and he wouldn't bring them home, so they're probably in the client files.
I wouldn't fault him for not mentioning the card, but not mentioning the letter seems rather rude. Especially as he can't have forgotten it as it's in your file. I'd do as All Done suggests. Of course, it's one of my basic philosophies in all my relationships not to sit on things and let them fester, but to tell people what is bothering me. He'll never know he hurt you otherwise, and neither of you will learn from the situation.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 30, 2004, at 2:44:14
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 1:05:17
Hey. I would give letters to one of my T's in session and he would read and give them back - he said that if he didn't give it back he would have to put it on my file.
I gave him a paper I wrote in our last session (he was leaving the country) and he said 'I won't take it with me you know' and somehow or other I managed to snigger a little like he had a dirty mind and managed to say that he was most welcome to shred it. He sent me an email from Canada and said that he had 'just read it again, and he thought...'.
:) Bit sneaky of me though...
Seriously, though you could ask whether he would prefer you not to give him stuff. Some don't like it. You could also ask him to read stuff in sessions and not give it to him - I'd be embarrased to read it outloud - but they can read and give it back. I hate that sort of stuff going on my file. You could ask him to take it out.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 30, 2004, at 13:25:52
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 1:05:17
Dinah, I wish I could be like you and not let things fester. I am so unconfrontational.
However, this could be a good exercise for me to be confrontational within the therapeutic environment which may help me become less scared in the real world.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 30, 2004, at 13:38:05
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by All Done on January 30, 2004, at 0:43:38
All Done, I don't think I would have the courage to ask to read the letter back to him, but you and others have inpired me that it won't be the end of the world to confront him about it.
Posted by Dinah on January 30, 2004, at 20:14:37
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Dinah, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 30, 2004, at 13:25:52
Well, the nice thing is that there's no need to be confrontational at all. It's a deepening of intimacy in a relationship to nonconfrontationally share feelings. I'd probably say something like "I couldn't help noticing my card and letter in my file the other day. (managing an affectionate smile) I spent weeks getting that letter just right, in my attempt to tell you how helpful you've been to me, and how much I appreciate that. (slight frown - very slight, melancholy perhaps) I felt a bit hurt when you didn't mention it at all. Would you like to re-read it and maybe we can talk about it a bit?"
Well, because my therapist and I have known each other for a while, I might be a bit more teasing.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 30, 2004, at 20:24:03
In reply to Re: Re: How did I manage to irritate (nm) » Karen_kay, posted by 64Bowtie on January 29, 2004, at 23:19:16
Weeelll.... While I appreciate the fact that you tried to help Miss Honey, I think that in doing so you irritated me. You did make a somewhat valid point, I suppose. But in making that point, it seemed that you weren't taking her feelings into consideration. She was clearly upset that her card didn't get acknowledged. You pointed out that since she gave it away, it wasn't hers anymore. Since it was no longer her card, Bean could do whatever he wanted to with it. He chose to stick it in her file. (And of course he takes it home with him every night) It just seems that in making this point (not that I'm discrediting your point in any way) I feel you weren't considerate of Miss Honey's feelings. And I rather like Miss Honey. So, you irritated me.
Now, say you come to my house for dinner and bring a bottle of wine. I say, "Well, thank you" and break the bottle over your head (don't get me wrong, I rather get a kick out of your posts, I'm just being humorous at this point), does that mean since you gave me the bottle of wine it is completely mine to do with as I choose? And you have no right to be mad at me for breaking it over your head? I'd say NO! And I'd expect you to say, "Well, don't expect me to stay for dinner unless you're serving chocolate cake!" Just as Miss Honey has every right to be upset that she didn't receive a proper thank you, and was confused that the card was placed in her file.
Posted by jane d on January 30, 2004, at 22:04:48
In reply to Re: Re: How did I manage to irritate » 64Bowtie, posted by Karen_kay on January 30, 2004, at 20:24:03
Weeelll.... I appreciate the posts by both of you posts because between them I was able to figure out what bothered me about the therapist's action. A gift is a gift. If you don't let the recipient use it as he wants it stops being a gift at all. Putting the card in the file though isn't just choosing to use a gift as you want. Its choosing to make it not a gift at all but some kind of clinical indicator instead. It's rejecting the gift but not even doing it directly. It strikes me as being less like spending someones gift of money on something you know they would hate than like taking the money and handing it to the FBI to use in your counterfeiting trial and then telling the person that they shouldn't be upset because "a gift is a gift".
I can understand a therapist wanting to protect himself. I can even see doing it myself if I were in that position. But I'd still be pretty angry if it were done to me.
Jane
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 31, 2004, at 9:39:50
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by thewriteone on January 30, 2004, at 0:38:30
The part that really pissed me off I think is that I have a certain image of myself in how he views me. I'm sure this is wishful thinking. Of course I like to think that we have a "special" connection somehow because we have a lot of the same interests (some of it quite obscure) and come from fairly similar backgrounds. He makes me laugh and I make him laugh. I suppose I feel like we're good friends.
So for him to treat the card as some sort of clinical diagnostic tool really took me aback, even though I now understand that rules are rules and he is protecting himself. I suppose I thought maybe he would bend the rules for ME, someone he thiks is special. Now I just think I'm probably just another patient on his roster.
OUr therapists are so special to us, they are, after all, our only therapist. It's hard to grasp the fact that we are probably not as special to our therapists.
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 9:44:37
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 31, 2004, at 9:39:50
Chart or no chart, it is rude not to thank someone for a gift. Especially such a personal one. Don't feel bad about feeling bad.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 10:34:48
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help!, posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 31, 2004, at 9:39:50
Miss Honey,
Rules are rules. He was only following a rule. While it was very rude of Bean not to thank you for the card, I don't think he was using it as a sort of clinical diagnosis or anything like that.But, I'm very sure that not all clients are just clients to their therapists. And I'm very sure that you are much more than "just a client" to Bean. I like to pretend that I'm more than a name in a book to Bubba. Please don't burst my bubble :)
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 10:37:23
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 10:34:48
I *know* I'm special to my therapist. I'm his only client who refuses to leave therapy. :P
Posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 12:49:44
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 10:37:23
Dinah,
I have no doubt in my mind that you are indeed special to everyone you have contact with. You are very special to me.... Thank you so much for that post on Social... You don't know how much I like it. I'll print it out and staple it to my forehead, and when someone tries to tell me I'm not special, I'l say, "Huu uhh, Dinah says I am!"
Thank you Dinah. I only wish I knew you in real life. I'm so sure you are very beautiful, in fact one of the most beautiful women in the world. And you aren't going to change my mind on that one. I wish you were my mommy :(
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 15:05:33
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on January 31, 2004, at 12:49:44
Thanks Karen. I'm glad I was able to convey my intended message on Social. I hope you take it to heart. :)
But can I be your aunt instead? The idea of being a woman terrifies me. I think I'd rather be your age-nonspecific aunt. (Besides, being a mother would imply I had sex. And yes, I know I'm a mother, but that implies.... Oh, I can't go there.)
Posted by DaisyM on January 31, 2004, at 15:24:55
In reply to Re: Bean pissed me off today! Please help! » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2004, at 15:05:33
I always wanted a daughter. And your already out of the awful teen stage. And it sounds like you like to shop.
And you like cashmere :)
-D
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