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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
I have not posted here much of late because I'm having some difficulty processing something that's going on in therapy and if anyone can give me clear feed-back I would appreciate it greatly.
Here's the situation: 2 weeks ago my T's cell phone rang. She rushed out of the office with it and was gone for 4 minutes. I had been talking with her about how I feel like such a patsy, letting people walk all over me, taking advantage of me, not respecting me. So I was in a place where I was revealing a great deal of inferiority about my ability to stand up for myself.
Sitting alone for 4 minutes in the T's office feels like a lot longer than 4 minutes.
Near the end of the time, I was starting to feel hurt and angry. I was angry (unreasonably, I admit) because her cell phone had such a "cheerful" ringing sound to it.
It was quite close to the end of the session. I decided that I would probably begin to cry to I thought I would hand her the check and leave when she returned. I did that; I told her that I felt I had to leave.
She said: "My mother's very sick; dying, and I'm the only doctor in the family so I had to take care of a family emergency."
Quoth I: "This tugs at my heart-strings," so I sat down and asked her a few general questions about whether she felt supported, etc. I apologized for what she called an "over-reaction."
It makes sense at her age that she would be dealing with the possibly illness and/or death of aged parents, but to tell the truth I had never really thought of that. I am now really wondering: she's never revealed anything personal to me. I don't know if she's married (suspect she is, but I don't know for a fact). I know nothing about her except that her mother is dying.
It makes me want to know ONE cheerful thing. The next week I felt that I had to spend the entire time apologizing for my insensitivity.
But yet....I am left with the same feeling: was I walked over? Wouldn't it have been more emotionally satisfying to me if I had been able to walk out? (And I am not the kind of person who walks out of situations, but it would have been expressing my opinion with my feet).
Now I'm left feeling that of course if she needs to interrupt my session to talk on the phone, that she must do so. I'm left feeling that it will be callous for me not to spend time asking her about how her mother's doing.
Yes, I know that therapists are real people with real lives and real losses. Am I selfish to feel a bit resentful or to feel that she's poisoned the wells a bit?
Thanks in advance for any response.
Posted by DaisyM on January 24, 2004, at 18:21:26
In reply to Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
I have mixed feelings about your post. On the one hand, I would hate that my Therapist's personal life interfered with MY time. But, I've actually had to deal with that, he was sick once and there was a death in his family once. I couldn't help myself from being upset but once I looked at why, it was more about my own need to caretake everyone else.
On the other hand, like you said, Therapists are human and do have families, etc. She must respect you to have shared with you about her mom. She could have made up something, or said nothing.
I think the urge to stomp out might be that part of yourself that wants to confirm that YOU matter to her. Accompanying the urge to walk is usually the wish that they will come after us, or at least feel bad that we did indeed leave. We want their apology for not making and keeping us the center of attention. Add in you were talking about letting everyone take advantage of you, well, what a set up!! Of course you were hurt and angry. I don't think you were overreacting. I don't think she should have said that. I don't think you needed to apologize.
I struggle with the fact that the social norms of relationships don't apply in the therapy setting. It feels so one-sided, but, I'm told, it is suppose to. So I think you should only ask about her mom if you want to. She won't think bad of you if you don't. It isn't your job to take care of her or her feelings. As far as sharing your time with the possible phone calls, I think you should bring this out in the open: "I'm uncomfortable with the fact that I might be in the middle of something really private and painful and you will leave me to take a call." You can negotiate her needs with yours from there.
It's never easy, is it? Hope things get better soon.
Posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 21:46:07
In reply to Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
Okay, this is one of my pet peeves. One time Burt's (I refer to my pdoc as Burt) computer system was screwing up. Half-way through the appointment, Burt gets up from his chair (I was sitting on the couch) walks over to his desk and sits down WITH HIS BACK TO ME and starts fiddling with his computer. Then turns around and tells me, "I'm listening, keep talking." WELL, I was pretty irritated and I wanted to cry. First of all, I know that if he is busy with the computer, then he isn't listening to me. It really hurt my feelings and I didn't say more than two words throughout the rest of the session. I'm sure he though I was over-reacting. But it made me feel like the computer and the tech. guy were more important than what I was telling him. Anyway, I think the story is kinda similar to your therp. taking a phone call during a session. However, this time she did have a really good reason to get up and take it, her mum is dying. If it had been, say a friend, and she just wanted to chit chat, then that would be rude. I don't think you need to apologize anymore, you said you were sorry already. People make mistakes. I would just try to forget about it and keep on with your sessions.
Elle
Posted by pegasus on January 24, 2004, at 22:54:55
In reply to Re: Therapist is in difficulty..... » Catmom, posted by Elle2021 on January 24, 2004, at 21:46:07
Elle, that is just appalling! I know pdocs play by slightly different rules than therps (mine has yet to complete a session with me where she doesn't take a phone call in the middle), but turning his back on you to do something on the computer? And he expects you to keep talking!?!? I'm so sorry you had to experience that. Whatever you were saying was much more important than his stupid system problems, whether he understood that or not.
- p
Posted by Elle2021 on January 25, 2004, at 0:46:34
In reply to Re: Therapist is in difficulty..... » Elle2021, posted by pegasus on January 24, 2004, at 22:54:55
Well thanks! It's comforting to know that I am not the only one who found this hurtful and rude. For a while I have wanted to confront him about it, but I don't really have the courage. It was quite a while ago, so I wonder if he will even remember. Maybe I will just be brave my next session and bring it up. :) Thanks for your support.
Elle
Posted by coral on January 25, 2004, at 6:53:38
In reply to Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
Dear Catmom,
Your situation sounds very uncomfortable. I'm sorry.
When you're working on standing up for yourself, it's hard to learn when that behavior is appropriate and only you can determine that. IMO, if the therapist said, "Hold on a sec. Have to take this call from my decorator," you're well within your rights to say, "No. Talk with your decorator on your time, not mine." (Additionally, I'd have serious doubts about a therapist that would interrupt a session for that type of personal calls.) On the other hand, I conduct training sessions and require people to turn off their cell phones. However, my mother is dying and I'm accessible 24/7 and a call concerning her does take precedence. (I also see that my sessions don't have the same importance as a session with a therapist . . .)
Yet, I can't see a neursurgeon interrupting brain surgery for a telephone call about ANYTHING.
This might be an interesting topic for discussion w/your therapist albeit fraught with potential difficulties.
In the final analysis, (no pun intended), the therapist is the professional and it's her responsibility to know when she can fully attend to a client or not. She knows when she is going to have time between clients for such calls. That may sound callous but if the situation with her mother requires instanteous decisions, perhaps she should be at the hospital and not providing therapy.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on January 25, 2004, at 7:44:53
In reply to Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
CAtmom,
I think what your therapist should have done was at the beginning of your session tell you that she is waiting for a very important phone call about her mother and she will have to get the phone should it ring during your session. And apologize in advance. But her mother is her mother, and as crass as this sounds, has to come before any of her clients.
I don't think you were walked over at all. I just think her main mistake was not telling you up front about the situation.
Posted by Dinah on January 25, 2004, at 8:48:44
In reply to Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
Wait a second. She called your reaction an "overreaction"? Or did I misunderstand.
Because I would think it wouldn't be the most horrible thing to take the call if it was an emergency, but I also think her stance should be apologetic. I agree, with Miss Honeychurch, that she should have given you advance notice that her mother is dying, and apologize if she has to receive any emergency calls within session or if she is not quite herself. Then she should extra apologize for taking the call, and to how it brought a lack of continuity in the session. Then she should reassure you that she is being well cared for, and that it is not your responsibility. Then she should help you process your emotions about what, if any, feelings arise in you. I'm not saying she should grovel, but she should apologize. It's her job to be there for you, it's your expectation that she perform her duties if she's taking appointments. If I were unable to meet professional responsibilities because of a personal emergency, I wouldn't feel guilty, but I would apologize.
What she *shouldn't* do, IMHO, is criticize your reaction. Unless there is a specific therapeutic reason for it.
Posted by Catmom on January 25, 2004, at 17:25:47
In reply to Re: Therapist is in difficulty..... » Catmom, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2004, at 8:48:44
Thank you very much, to all of you who have responded. I really appreciate the time you've taken. It's an issue that I realize will require more sorting out in my mind. It's a minor issue in the context of 28 months of therapy, but it highlights some of my concerns about the imbalance of any kind of "power" in this psychiatric relationship and the fact that we've had some differences of opinion about things and she always seems to feel that her opinion is the BETTER opinion than mine.
Thank you again!
Posted by pegasus on January 25, 2004, at 23:09:38
In reply to Re: Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 25, 2004, at 17:25:47
Catmom,
I think a lot of therapists are like that (taking the position that their opinion is the right one). It's especially unfortunate in this situation, because I think all of us agree that she could have handled it better. Even if the actual act of taking a call about one's dying mother would perhaps generally be allowed. I agree with Miss Honey that it really did create an obligation on her part to address in some helpful way any negative affect her actions (as understandable as they might have been) created within your therapy. And that doesn't include becoming defensive or blaming you for having an allegedly inappropriate reaction. I'd be surprised if any of us here would have reacted any less than you.
-p
Posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2004, at 6:16:05
In reply to Re: Therapist is in difficulty..... » Catmom, posted by Dinah on January 25, 2004, at 8:48:44
Dinah,
Your response says it all. I agree 100%.
gg
Posted by crushedout on January 27, 2004, at 12:27:22
In reply to Therapist is in difficulty....., posted by Catmom on January 24, 2004, at 12:21:11
Catmom,
I haven't read everyone else's responses to your posts yet so I hope I don't repeat too much of what others have already said. I don't think your reaction was unreasonable at all (did she actually tell you that you overreacted? if so, I hope you won't mind me saying that that seems outrageous).
I think she should have kept her problem, however serious it may be (and it sounds very serious), out of your session. If she was in a real emergency situation and could not avoid the interruption, I think she should have warned you in advance that you may be interrupted, apologized in advance if that happened, and planned some way of compensating you for the interruption (i.e., we can run over four minutes -- or however long -- either in that session or some subsequent session), and she should also have given you an opportunity to process with her your feelings about her being distracted or whatever.
Those are just my two cents. I totally understand your wanting to ask about her mother, and you certainly can, but I think it's more important for you to focus any discussion you two have about it on your feeling compelled to ask than on how she's feeling about her mother.
crushedout
> I have not posted here much of late because I'm having some difficulty processing something that's going on in therapy and if anyone can give me clear feed-back I would appreciate it greatly.
>
> Here's the situation: 2 weeks ago my T's cell phone rang. She rushed out of the office with it and was gone for 4 minutes. I had been talking with her about how I feel like such a patsy, letting people walk all over me, taking advantage of me, not respecting me. So I was in a place where I was revealing a great deal of inferiority about my ability to stand up for myself.
>
> Sitting alone for 4 minutes in the T's office feels like a lot longer than 4 minutes.
>
> Near the end of the time, I was starting to feel hurt and angry. I was angry (unreasonably, I admit) because her cell phone had such a "cheerful" ringing sound to it.
>
> It was quite close to the end of the session. I decided that I would probably begin to cry to I thought I would hand her the check and leave when she returned. I did that; I told her that I felt I had to leave.
>
> She said: "My mother's very sick; dying, and I'm the only doctor in the family so I had to take care of a family emergency."
>
> Quoth I: "This tugs at my heart-strings," so I sat down and asked her a few general questions about whether she felt supported, etc. I apologized for what she called an "over-reaction."
>
> It makes sense at her age that she would be dealing with the possibly illness and/or death of aged parents, but to tell the truth I had never really thought of that. I am now really wondering: she's never revealed anything personal to me. I don't know if she's married (suspect she is, but I don't know for a fact). I know nothing about her except that her mother is dying.
>
> It makes me want to know ONE cheerful thing. The next week I felt that I had to spend the entire time apologizing for my insensitivity.
>
> But yet....I am left with the same feeling: was I walked over? Wouldn't it have been more emotionally satisfying to me if I had been able to walk out? (And I am not the kind of person who walks out of situations, but it would have been expressing my opinion with my feet).
>
> Now I'm left feeling that of course if she needs to interrupt my session to talk on the phone, that she must do so. I'm left feeling that it will be callous for me not to spend time asking her about how her mother's doing.
>
> Yes, I know that therapists are real people with real lives and real losses. Am I selfish to feel a bit resentful or to feel that she's poisoned the wells a bit?
>
> Thanks in advance for any response.
>
Posted by Lonely on January 30, 2004, at 1:19:19
In reply to Re: Therapist is in difficulty..... » Catmom, posted by DaisyM on January 24, 2004, at 18:21:26
I had a therapist who missed several appointments without any warning. I was very hurt and worried about her well being, especially the first time. A mutual friend explained to me that I felt "my stock was very low with her" and I should tell her that. She was annoyed at this; obviously she didn't want me getting input from anyone else. I was driving about 45-60 minutes each way for the appointments and felt silly sitting there waiting for a therapist who didn't show up. I railed back at her in phone messages. The tough part was that I also knew she had a very serious, even life-threatening illness although we talked very little about it. One writer here described it very well when she said that we hope the therapist comes after us if we leave ... it helps to feel we are important (my paraphrase). And, that's obviously what was going on w/me I see now. Ultimately we got into such a scrap through messages (her staff was absolutely incompetent) that she required I go to another therapist/consultant to see if the relationship could be salvaged. She later admitted that the consultant had told her some things she needed to be reminded of ... and I have a pretty good idea what they were. I guess for me it was caring deeply about her on the one hand and feeling that I was being trifled with on the other hand. The ultimate pain, came, though, when she died rather suddenly from the serious illnesses that we couldn't talk about very much. I wanted to comfort her but wasn't really allowed and didn't know how in the artifical restraints of a therapy situation. I'm glad to hear from others on your experience - it's tough being caught between wanting to be compassionate and yet having one's own needs that must be fulfilled.
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