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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by Asya on January 19, 2004, at 21:43:08
In reply to Re: Leaving in Tears, posted by fallsfall on January 19, 2004, at 21:25:46
I am so sorry to hear this Daisy. Maybe it will help if you talk about what happened during the session too. Did he say any words of comfort as you left? If not, did he at least give you a comforting gaze?
In any case, I recommend a hot bath, a hearty meal, and a long nap. Long ago a wise friend told me if I ever felt upset at the world and just soul-wrenchingingly unhappy, those three things will remind me what I DO have. I really hope you feel better, but even if you don't, I know you'll get through this.
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2004, at 21:43:11
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Isch. I'm sorry. :( They're supposed to make us feel better! Perhaps we should have it printed up and mailed round to them.
I vote for sleep, and maybe even work. Especially if you like it. That's what I'm going to do.
I'm not at my best, but I'll be in and out if you need an ear.
I hope tomorrow is a better day for you.
Posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
In reply to Oh Daisy!, posted by Asya on January 19, 2004, at 21:43:08
>>>Maybe it will help if you talk about what happened during the session too. Did he say any words of comfort as you left? If not, did he at least give you a comforting gaze?
<<<Thanks all. I don't even know if I can explain it even. I told him I was reading about differentiation of self and about mutual projective identification and I had really started looking at how I contribute to the relationships I'm in -- friends, spouse, etc. I decided that I must be really frustrating because I need to control everything. He commented that I seem to keep emotional space around me, but understandably so. But he could see how that would frustrate my spouse. Ultimately the conversation was about how I have created and perpetuated my own unhappiness. In the end, I was in tears and he asked what was happening and I said I felt like I was sinking because I felt like my thoughts about being basically emotionally flawed had been confirmed. Growing up I didn't learn how to let people close and now it is too late. But I'm really lonely and sometimes wish someone would take care of me instead of me always taking care of everyone else. Not that I would actually allow that -- it would be scary.
I glanced at the clock and said, "Oh good, I can leave." And I got up. He said, "saved by the bell.We can talk about this more on..." and then he looked over as I opened the door and smiled sadly and just said good-bye. There wasn't anything for him to say because I was bolting. I did 90% of the talking today. I didn't really give him a chance to jump in. He did say at one point that I was doing what I always do, which is take responsibility for everything and everyone.
I don't know why it got so hard. It wasn't my intention today. My insides hurt so badly right now, I feel like my soul is coming loose. Sleep is probably the best answer but I doubt it will come. Even if I called, I wouldn't know what to say. He can't fix the truth.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 19, 2004, at 23:25:59
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
Daisy,
Sorry you are feeling so bad. I find sometimes I am so drained and keep crying after sessions. The next day, especially after sleeping, I usually feel better. I hope you do too.> Growing up I didn't learn how to let people close and now it is too late. But I'm really lonely and sometimes wish someone would take care of me instead of me always taking care of everyone else. Not that I would actually allow that -- it would be scary.
It's NEVER too late! It's just much harder as an adult, which says a lot about you that you are even willing to address it.
(((((Daisy)))))
>
Even if I called, I wouldn't know what to say. He can't fix the truth.He can, however, offer support and possibly clarification, whatever the truth is. And who's to say what is truth and what is part of an ever-changing dynamic?
Take care and know that I am thinking of you,
gg
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2004, at 23:37:09
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
Daisy, my sweet, you're judging yourself waaaay too hard. I'm sure he doesn't even realize the weight of the conclusions you've drawn. And while he may think you had some insight, since he's always trying to get you to let go of some of the responsibility for things, I doubt he'd agree with what you're thinking.
If someone here was thinking about themselves what you're thinking about themselves. If your son (I hope that's right - a son?) was thinking about himself what you're thinking about yourself. What would you tell him? Would you berate him for causing his own unhappiness?
Be as kind to yourself as you are to others. (And I've seen you be waaaay kinder to others here on the board, myself included, than you're being to yourself right now.)
If you really can't sleep, can you write down all the things you're thinking and then look at them as if someone else had written them. And think about what you would say.
Posted by 64Bowtie on January 20, 2004, at 0:31:35
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
I'm so sad for you that a session that's supposed to help, can instead ruin a couple of days for you.
Being known as a "typical male", I want to fix it for you instead of validate your feelings. I am mentioning this because I must disclose that for nearly two minutes after I read your post, I was off mentally telling you what you could do different next time.
Sadly I'm not finished remodeling my brain yet.
Posted by judy1 on January 20, 2004, at 0:48:35
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
it sounds like you did some very difficult work with your therp- and that always leaves you drained. (It's probably why I avoid the hard stuff). when do you see him again? if it's a week, maybe just getting some support from him on the phone would help. try to be gentle with yourself- hope you feel better-judy
Posted by naiad on January 20, 2004, at 6:37:25
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy! » DaisyM, posted by judy1 on January 20, 2004, at 0:48:35
Daisy,
Just want you to know that on this board you are not emotionally distant. You are warm, caring, wise and wonderful. I, too, feel flawed but as others have said, change is possible at any age and time.
Please take care of yourself. I hope today is better than yesterday and that you can get some relief from those overwhelming negative feelings.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 7:54:52
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
(((((Daisy)))))
You wrote: I decided that I must be really frustrating because I need to control everything.
Gee, my whole session yesterday was about control, too. It is so hard to see what we really are doing and know how it is affecting others. But let's get realistic here. We may like to control things - but there is a reason. It's not like we are trying to oppress people - at least for me, it is that I think that I can help them make their world and my world better if we do it my way. I really have good motives, and I'm sure you do, too.
So, when you are beating yourself up for being so controlling, please remember that you mean well, and that you want good things for people. You are a wonderful person.
Don't worry just yet about changing the behavior. Just accept that you are a good person who behaves sometimes in a way that you don't like so much. Later on, you can work to help the good person show her "niceness" in a different way.
But you truly are a good person.
You and I can learn to be less controlling together. OK?
Posted by All Done on January 20, 2004, at 9:05:33
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
Growing up I didn't learn how to let people close and now it is too late.
>>I agree with everyone else, Daisy. It's never too late.
But I'm really lonely and sometimes wish someone would take care of me instead of me always taking care of everyone else. Not that I would actually allow that -- it would be scary.
>>I know how you feel, I'm the same way. But maybe as you start to let others take care of you (in small ways, of course - baby steps), the loneliness will start to fade away. Start by letting us take care of you a little bit.
(((Daisy)))
I hope today is a better day for you.
Posted by tinydancer on January 20, 2004, at 9:34:54
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Sorry if I am dumb and didn't follow but why did you leave in tears? Were you talking about something or does it have to do with your T not rescuing you?
Posted by Poet on January 20, 2004, at 11:09:27
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Daisy,
I'm so sorry that you left your session in such pain. I understand how you feel about work, it gives my brain something to keep it busy so I stop obsessing over a hard session.
Eat lots and lots of chocolate.
Poet
Posted by Karen_kay on January 20, 2004, at 14:35:16
In reply to Re: Oh Daisy!, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 22:47:58
(((Daisy)))
It's not too late to let people close to you. I understand that it's a hard step to take. I still don't know how to do that either. But I hope that in the future I can. I know that for me, I don't let my emotional guard down because I've been hurt in the past. And I won't allow that to happen again. But, I would guess it is a decision you just have to make. To begin one day to allow yourself to slowly let others do things for you. And to enjoy it.
You're not emotionally flawed. You've been hurt. That's not a flaw. That's not something you can help. But that is something that one day you will overcome.
Take care of yourself.
Posted by Raindancer on January 20, 2004, at 17:56:16
In reply to Leaving in Tears, posted by DaisyM on January 19, 2004, at 20:38:19
Dear Daisy, I'm so sorry you are having such a bad time and I do hope you're feeling better soon. You have helped me so much over the past days, I feel very sad that you are in such pain. I have felt very close to you recently and care for you a great deal. Your own care and thought for others warms and comforts them.You are not at all emotionally flawed - just hurt by what life has done to you. This can and will heal, but it may take a long time, and as you know, therapy can be tough and painful. Hold on tight. You may not see it now but you are gaining ground with every step. With thoughts and prayers.R.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:25:52
In reply to Re: Leaving in Tears » DaisyM, posted by Raindancer on January 20, 2004, at 17:56:16
Posted by DaisyM on January 20, 2004, at 23:59:31
In reply to Daisy? How is it going? (nm), posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:25:52
Not better. Haven't much to say. Still can't take in good things so can't respond yet to any of above.
My son had his "last" therapy session today. He was thrilled to be graduated out. I dropped him at home, went back to my office and sobbed my heart out. How do I take care of this emotionally attuned child when I can't get my own emotions under control? I needed his therapist more than he did.
More evidence about how incompetent I feel. I know I'm just having a pity-party. Shouldn't be so negative. Sorry.
Thanks for checking.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 6:48:23
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going? » fallsfall, posted by DaisyM on January 20, 2004, at 23:59:31
Oh, Daisy. :( Don't worry about being negative here.
When is your next therapy appointment? I think you could use some extra support.
(((Daisy)))
Posted by fallsfall on January 21, 2004, at 10:55:16
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going? » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 6:48:23
You said: In the end, I was in tears and he asked what was happening and I said I felt like I was sinking because I felt like my thoughts about being basically emotionally flawed had been confirmed.
I can identify with this feeling - the flawed business. But I really believe for me (and I would think it would be true for you, too) that I came into this world as a whole person - with the capability of growing into a person who had all the right emotional stuff. My family couldn't teach me the right things when I was little. I'm sure that I wasn't the easiest person to teach, but they really didn't do a very good job. I DO believe, however, that I still have the inate ability to learn how to be emotionally human. I think that it is HARDER to learn this at age 46, but I think that it is possible. That is why I'm in therapy. Because I want to learn to be human. I believe that it is possible for me to learn to be human - that belief is my HOPE.
You have been so caring and thoughtful on this board. You, too, have the inate ability to be human. And you want to be human. Your "emotional flaws" (and mine) are not hopeless. They are also not as devistating as we feel they are - if they were we would have no relationships and would have done no good in our lives (clearly this is not the case for either of us) Please see that you aren't to "blame" for those flaws, but also that they don't have to be forever flaws. Your SOUL is impeccable. It's time to find a way for that soul to shine through.
(((((Daisy)))))
Email me at babble fallsfall at hotmail.com if you would like.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 21, 2004, at 13:11:46
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going?, posted by fallsfall on January 21, 2004, at 10:55:16
Daisy
Things do get better. I promise. I know it's hard right now, but things will get better again. I know it hurts to feel that you are emotionally flawed in some way. But you aren't. I wish there was some way that I could make you see just how wonderful you are.
If you are still feeling down, why don't you call your therapist. I know that's a big step for you, but I think it would be an important one for you to make. And talk about how much the last session hurt. It could really lead to some bigger things...Just think about it.
Posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 18:59:52
In reply to Re: Daisy? How is it going?, posted by Karen_kay on January 21, 2004, at 13:11:46
I wrote a post this afternoon but it seems to have disappeared into cyber space so I am going to try again. Please accept my apology if that one suddenly pops up with duplicate thoughts. (Though I'm sure that one was better...)
I understand what you are all trying to say but...BUT.
All this pain is about figuring out that I'm not strong -- in fact, I'm a coward at my core. On the outside I'm organized, smart, capable of multi-tasking and decision making. On the inside, I hate confrontations and go to great lengths to avoid them with the people that matter to me. I let people treat me badly, for years and years, to avoid doing anything about it. I've believed for a long time that I was great for "putting up with them." The truth is they have been putting up with me.
I hold everyone at arm's length, keeping that emotional distance. How frustrating this must be - to never really feel like you can reach the other person. I talk about being lonely yet being vulnerable to someone, including my husband, is too hard, too scary. I'm so much better at solving other people's problems, at fighting their battles.
I've decided what I need to work on is acceptance
of these flaws...and of the loneliness. Don't tell me I'm being too hard on myself. The evidence of this pattern is pretty overwhelming. I don't see hope of suddenly finding courage.It is painful to acknowledge that the strength that so many people admire is just a sham. I'm not who I thought I was, who I want to be. Yes, I could feel this way because I live day-to-day with so much sickness and anger (his, not mine), or because I had a traumatic childhood or even that genetically it is my real character. It doesn't change what "is". So I long for intimacy but I won't risk emotionally to get it.
It was easier not realizing all this. Not knowing what I wanted/needed. I'm trying to accept the loneliness and stuff the rest back in the box.
I'll get my self together soon and be OK. Really. Thank you all for your support. I appreciate it more than you know.
-D
Posted by fallsfall on January 21, 2004, at 19:57:21
In reply to I'll be OK, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 18:59:52
Posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2004, at 20:01:21
In reply to I'll be OK, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 18:59:52
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 21:47:01
In reply to from me too, ((((Daisy)))) (nm), posted by gardenergirl on January 21, 2004, at 20:01:21
I'm worried about you. (Even if you'd rather I didn't.)
Posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 23:00:14
In reply to Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment?, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 21:47:01
I went in today. We didn't get very far. I told him I felt like a lifelong fraud and just felt hopeless and I didn't know what to do about it.
He said that he thought I wasn't giving myself enough credit -- that I was strong. That I was functioning really well in some realms (work) instead of letting all of this completely overwhelm me. He said I just had to trust him. He had enough hope for both of us. And he insisted on sharing it.
At least he made me smile.
And he insisted I come back tomorrow. I think I'm scaring him.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 23:07:33
In reply to Re: Daisy, sweet, when is your next appointment?, posted by DaisyM on January 21, 2004, at 23:00:14
I'm glad you're going back tomorrow. Thank him for me, will you, for insisting. And you should congratulate yourself on your strength for agreeing. I know how hard it was for you to let yourself need help.
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