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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
I have decided that I am not getting anywhere with my therapy. I think it is a waste of time and money. I feel worse now than I did before I started. I am supposed to start "concentradt" sessions with my psychologist next Monday.
I will leave him a meesage saying I won't be there. Whatever is going to happen, will. I was alone when I started this and I am alone again. I have set myself up with a false notion that my shrink is on my "side" and is trying to help me. I have now figured out I am just another car payment to him.
It's a lost cause. I'm done. Thanks for listening. Godd luck to all of you.
-Miller
Posted by beardedLADY on January 6, 2003, at 9:32:37
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
Miller:
This is, of course, your decision to make, and yours alone. You didn't explain your post (is "concentradt" supposed to be "concentrated"? I haven't heard of either term in therapy, which is why I'm asking), so I don't know why you would think you were just a car payment.
I don't want to be hard on you. Lord knows you're hard enough on yourself. But I do want to say/remind you that it may be impossible for therapy to work when you are not honest with your therapist.
I'm not saying that you are dishonest, but you are not forthright, and I don't see how he can help you completely if you don't disclose the events that have made you who you are, that have led you to the place you are today.
I don't want what I say to be misconstrued as unsupportive. I am supportive of you, but I think your decision to quit therapy may not be a good one.
Might you consider a different therapist at least? Or could it be that you are taking something your therapist said the wrong way, which led you to believe he's not on your side?
You are not alone. We are all here. Maybe someone else will speak out on this thread and say how right you are, that therapy is a waste. But I can't say it. Sorry.
Good luck to you.
Beardy
Posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 11:55:13
In reply to Re: Done with therapy » Miller, posted by beardedLADY on January 6, 2003, at 9:32:37
What I meant was that I will be taking off of work for three weeks. During that time my psychologist and I are supposed to be having extended, more in-depth therapy. This was all arranged after I took all of those sleeping pills.
I am getting the idea that he is now going to back off of some of his commiment to me. (I can't remember if he actually did COMMIT, but he knows I am now off of work, I didn't take any school classes, and I was putting a lot of hope into it.
Whatever. I know you are right about me not being "forthcoming" with him, but I DON'T KNOW HOW to be. It would be nice if he would give me a clue about that.
No, I will not start this all over again with somebody else. I think I've had it, to be honest. I'm tired of having to always ask and beg for everything, just to be turned down or have my feelings discounted.
Thank you for saying that I am not alone. However, the truth is, I am. It is correct this board is here, but when I really need help, I will only be able to HOPE someone answers my post.
I am not in a good way today. Thank you for reading my post. I didn't take it as unsupportive. Sorry about my typing being so bad today. I guess I don't have the energy for that either.
-Miller
Posted by TheProf on January 6, 2003, at 12:13:59
In reply to Re: Done with therapy » beardedLADY, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 11:55:13
I hate to hear someone appearing to give up. I have battled depression for many decades and I know that the worst part of it is that it sometimes makes me think that things will never get better. Sometimes it has taken a long time, but eventually it does get better.
As for therapists, I question their value for anyone who has a genetic cause for depression (as opposed to totally environmentally induced). In fact, I suspect that any value they have is a placebo effect. However, some people seem to find them helpful. Use whatever works.
Posted by beardedLADY on January 6, 2003, at 13:26:19
In reply to Re: Done with therapy, posted by TheProf on January 6, 2003, at 12:13:59
> As for therapists, I question their value for anyone who has a genetic cause for depression (as opposed to totally environmentally induced). In fact, I suspect that any value they have is a placebo effect.
Well, both statements are simply untrue. For some, there may be a placebo effect, but therapy that results in changed behaviors is a lot more than placebo.
A lot of folks have genetic problems that are made easier to live with by behavior modification--and attitude adjustment. Just because a person has a genetic predisposition toward obesity that doesn't mean he can't use skills that keep him fit and healthy!
respectfully,
beardy
Posted by beardedLADY on January 6, 2003, at 14:26:32
In reply to Re: Done with therapy » TheProf, posted by beardedLADY on January 6, 2003, at 13:26:19
> > As for therapists, I question their value for anyone who has a genetic cause for depression (as opposed to totally environmentally induced). In fact, I suspect that any value they have is a placebo effect.
>
> Well, both statements are simply untrue.Of course both statements are true the way they are phrased! How can one argue with "I question their value"? You do question their value, indeed!
Just wanted to clear up that semantics mistake.
beardy : )>
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2003, at 16:31:27
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
OK, Miller. What happened? (If you want to share.) I know those sentiments. I've felt them many times. I quit therapy probably at least a half dozen times. I had a couple of different reasons. One, that I was afraid of trusting. And two, that he did something to awaken my never far from the surface abandonment fears. This sounds like the second to me.
He mentioned money? He made it clear that there were limits to how much time he was willing to put in during this period? You misunderstood the arrangements? All of those things hurt. It hurts to realize that he has a life, and you are only a small part of it while he looms large in yours. My therapist didn't even like me (regular old human being "like") for years. All of those things hurt like hell. It took a long time to come to understand and accept the limits of the therapeutic relationship. You're more than a car payment, really you are. I am to my therapist. But I'm also not a friend, and I'm not family. He wouldn't see me if I didn't pay. But within the limits of the therapeutic relationship he does care. Even when he didn't like me, he cared.
It sounds like he's hurt you, and you want to run. I can't tell you not to (especially since I ran five or six times). But now may not be the best time to do that. Why don't you tell us what happened today?
(And yes, we all are ultimately alone. Our therapists can't save us or keep us alive. This board can't. Our family can't. Only we can do that. And it sucks.)
Dinah
(And feel free to tell me I'm projecting and I'm completely off base. :) )
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on January 6, 2003, at 16:43:04
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
> It's a lost cause. I'm done. Thanks for listening. Godd luck to all of you.
---------------I'm sorry that things haven't been going well for you lately, Miller. No one should have to be in such pain, or feel so alone and unheard. I wish that those around you could see you more clearly for how you feel, because you need more than just words on a website.
I don't usually attempt to cheer people up around here. I don't really know most posters very well, and don't know what to say anyway. It makes me so sad to read about the loneliness and heartache of such deserving people. I wish I could drive around to everyone's house and make them smile a little bit. I understand how it feels, and it feels empty and forgotten and sick. Why should *we* feel this way, while others are carefree? It's just not fair.
I hope that you'll feel better soon, though. Spring will be here in a few months, and your fellow posters will be here in the meanwhile.
Posted by mikhail99 on January 6, 2003, at 17:02:50
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
> I have decided that I am not getting anywhere with my therapy. I think it is a waste of time and money. I feel worse now than I did before I started. I am supposed to start "concentradt" sessions with my psychologist next Monday.
>
> I will leave him a meesage saying I won't be there. Whatever is going to happen, will. I was alone when I started this and I am alone again. I have set myself up with a false notion that my shrink is on my "side" and is trying to help me. I have now figured out I am just another car payment to him.What happened to make you feel that way about the financial part of it?
>
> It's a lost cause. I'm done. Thanks for listening. Godd luck to all of you.
>
> -Miller
>
>It's NOT a lost cause, YOU are not a lost cause! I know you said you don't want to try with someone else but consider that you may not be in a place where you can decide this right now. You have to remember that feeling like this won't last forever, that there will be down days and there will be better days and you have to wait (I know how hard that is) for the better days to make such huge decisions. If you don't know how to tell your therapist how you feel, print this post and show it to him! He may not have realized how he's hurt you and HE MUST BE TOLD!
If you have to, get angry and do it! Whatever it takes. But you can't do this alone, please don't try! Please, please, please don't give up on yourself. I think those of us that have communicated with you have found you to be very hard on yourself and we have also found you to be very undeserving of being so hard on yourself. You are compassionate, caring and articulate. You just have to find someone to help you express yourself in therapy, in other words, a decent therapist.
Please stay in touch here if nothing else, we'll miss you terribly and always wonder and worry what happened to you. Please take care!
Posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 17:53:49
In reply to Re: Done with therapy- Miller WAIT!!!! » Miller, posted by mikhail99 on January 6, 2003, at 17:02:50
Therapy can have impasses, but if you have a decent therapist, then letting them know what your doubts are can help get through the impasse. I suspect Beardy is on track when she said that part of what is hard is that you are sitting on a lot of powerful stuff that is too painful to talk about, but then whatever else does get talked about doesn't seem significant or helpful, because it's sort of beside the point.
However, it doesn't mean you have to go in and open up the powder keg of difficult stuff. Just talk ABOUT the difficulty. It could be really helpful to discuss the feelings of wanting to quit, and trying to explore what about the therapy is not feeling good to you right now. A good therapist will explore that with you.
But talk first, don't act yet. I like what Mikhail said--Wait.
You have strong feelings--that is ok, but don't make a decision like this when you are in the middle of a storm of discouraging feelings.
Posted by TheProf on January 6, 2003, at 21:41:57
In reply to Re: Done with therapy » TheProf, posted by beardedLADY on January 6, 2003, at 13:26:19
> > As for therapists, I question their value for anyone who has a genetic cause for depression (as opposed to totally environmentally induced). In fact, I suspect that any value they have is a placebo effect.
>
> Well, both statements are simply untrue. For some, there may be a placebo effect, but therapy that results in changed behaviors is a lot more than placebo.
>
> A lot of folks have genetic problems that are made easier to live with by behavior modification--and attitude adjustment. Just because a person has a genetic predisposition toward obesity that doesn't mean he can't use skills that keep him fit and healthy!
>
> respectfully,
>
> beardy
>Sorry, beardy. Placebos, in some cases, have been shown to have a beneficial effect when taken for depression.
Depression is not obesity.
Respectfully,
The Prof
Posted by Noa on January 7, 2003, at 4:34:51
In reply to Re: Done with therapy, posted by TheProf on January 6, 2003, at 21:41:57
I wish I could remember where I learned this, but I believe research has shown that therapy does help with depression of any origin. I think Consumers did a review and showed that the combo of therapy and meds was the best option.
My view is that genetic predisposition does not mean "impervious to environmental influence". Right now there is no cure for depression. When science is able to isolate one or more genes and can develop gene therapy, maybe those for whom depression is directly caused by genes will get cured. But right now there is no cure, only treatment. And medications are helpful treatment, but certainly not perfect, as many of us here know. Therapy is also helpful, but not perfect.
For me, I absolutely need and derive benefit from both. Without both, I would be much sicker with deprssion than I am, if alive.
But to each his or her own, of course.
Posted by beardedLADY on January 7, 2003, at 6:21:26
In reply to Re: Done with therapy, posted by TheProf on January 6, 2003, at 21:41:57
Depression is not obesity?
I used that only to show that genetic illnesses can, indeed, benefit from therapeutic behavior. Behavioral therapy, whether you believe it or not, can have a positive benefit on folks with genetic depression--and it's not simply a placebo.
I'm fine with placebos, though. If they work, they're as valid a remedy as any. I was just saying that there is a value to therapy, whether you have a genetic problem or not.
beardy
Posted by justyourlaugh on January 7, 2003, at 8:48:46
In reply to Re: Done with therapy » beardedLADY, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 11:55:13
miller,
sorry you are feeling so frustrated with the work you have done with your pdoc.
being "forth coming"is very difficult when we are constantly "kidding" ourselves.
i hope your day is starting to turn around for you.
feeling alone is such a terrible pain especially when there are others around you but you dont know how to let them in.
feel better soon
jyl
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2003, at 11:35:17
In reply to Re: miller, posted by justyourlaugh on January 7, 2003, at 8:48:46
Posted by coral on January 8, 2003, at 12:49:10
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
Therapy is blasted hard work. Given the depths of the problems so many people here are dealing with, there simply are no quick fixes. I don't mean to imply that anyone is seeking a quick fix.
In my experience, personal and professional, it's frequently common for it to get worse before it gets better. One thought on this is that the reason we seek therapy is that our previously established defense mechanisms are failing or not as successful as before. Hence, stripping away the defense mechanisms which is what therapy does, in part, leaves us to face the demons that caused us to feel the defense mechanisms were necessary in the first place. Dealing with the core demons is the true heart of therapy (in addition to meds which makes the process easier and helps our brains get back to normal.)
Undoubtedly, a competent therapist is crucial. However, it's easy to believe that a therapist is incompetent when things get difficult. My perspective is from three years of intensive therapy where it took everything I had within me to stick it out. However, I had hit rock bottom and knew that I would not continue living if there was no improvement in my life. At this point, I still have ocassion to work with my therapist as specific issues or new problems arise.
I would go through the excruciatingly painful process of therapy in a New York second to be where I am today. It was worth every grueling moment. I also have a top-notch therapist.
Posted by WorryGirl on January 8, 2003, at 16:24:59
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
> I have decided that I am not getting anywhere with my therapy. I think it is a waste of time and money. I feel worse now than I did before I started. I am supposed to start "concentradt" sessions with my psychologist next Monday.
>Miller,
I've been on a trip and am just now catching up on my e-mails. I am so sorry to hear about your situation. Did the therapist say something to make you feel that you are just another car payment? This bothers me because I felt that way with my therapist, too, but I know that there have to be others out there who wouldn't give that impression.I tell myself that there are doctors, salespeople, etc. who are only doing it for the money, but there are many who truly enjoy what they do and money is not their #1 concern.
True, they are operating a business just like anyone else, but a *good* business would never be obvious about caring only about the money.
Please don't give up. It is people like you who have helped me. I feel much better with some time to get away and think about things. Maybe you are feeling depressed because the excitement of the new year and the holidays, etc. is over and the winter blues are here? Whatever the reason, like you yourself have told me, people on this board care about you.
I wonder if you need another medication, or maybe you could try some alternative treatments.
I wish I could help.> I will leave him a meesage saying I won't be there. Whatever is going to happen, will. I was alone when I started this and I am alone again. I have set myself up with a false notion that my shrink is on my "side" and is trying to help me. I have now figured out I am just another car payment to him.
>
I did this with my therapist (left a message, that is, saying I wouldn't be returning, but thank you for all the help). Knowing that I opened myself up to other possibilities did give me a tremendous sense of relief. Now it's all about finding another therapist for you, or trying something.> It's a lost cause. I'm done. Thanks for listening. Godd luck to all of you.
You know that I felt exactly like you a week ago. Try to do some things you really enjoy even if you have to force yourself and don't feel like it at first. I did and it helped me a lot (even if only temporarily). Maybe you can get your thoughts together enough to plan your next course of action.
You are not a lost cause. If you are, then I am, too. :)
Take Care
Posted by judy1 on January 9, 2003, at 12:13:40
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
I'm exactly where you are now (I haven't gone to therapy in over 2 months), but I recognize the reasons I don't go. Yes, it's difficult- especially when you deal with the awful stuff and you want to flee out the door as soon as your therapist brings it up. But I'm the first to recognize the value in it, my therapist and shrink have prevented me from suicide twice and have always been there for me at my darkest moments. I just wonder if you have hit a difficult patch (which is when you need help the most). I usually ask my therapist to back off then and she respects it. I'll probably go back soon because I'm in a downward spiral, but I wonder if you can speak to your therapist about cutting back sessions because you feel overwhelmed? It's certainly worth a try. I truly hope you feel better- judy
Posted by zenfaerie on January 11, 2003, at 19:10:41
In reply to Done with therapy, posted by Miller on January 6, 2003, at 9:11:44
if your therapist isn't working for you, you can always find another one. sometimes it takes a while to find one who you're comfortable with.
This is the end of the thread.
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