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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 14:34:24
Anyone else have this problem? Unless I'm at the public library ... or school, I have a limited view of daily discussion here. The last entry I see noted is my own, "Fear and Despair" from 8/10/03.
Not sure how to fix.
Things are okay here. Hot. Funny. I had a blind date this a.m. -- he shared an interesting book of chanelled material from St. Germain .... Shared the title, and I've got it written on a scrap of paper somewhere -- other than that, we had little to say to one another.
He's looking for someone to ride bicycles with. I'm looking for something else. Not sure what! School is starting soon, both as a teacher, and a learner. I can best care for myself at this point, not by looking for a partner (Although! I really should tell you about the guy who wrote me an email with every sentence ending in an exclamation point! No, really! I really mean it!), but by getting busy with the tasks at hand.
All is well. I am still chanting (thank you, Jim), still praying (thank you, all), still working with all the tools I have at my fingertips, and finding humor in small things (Really! I really mean it!)
Peace,
Temmie
Posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 15:11:33
In reply to Trouble Accessing Current Posts, posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 14:34:24
Temmie -
I hope you can read this -
You tickled my funny bone with your last post! Really! I mean it!
It's odd, the things I find amusing while I'm in grief. I feel alternating needs to cry & to laugh.
I hope your computer problem rights itself. Really!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 15:33:37
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Temmie, posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 15:11:33
Oh, Dena, there's more! He plays guitar! He sings and plays drums, too! Pretty soon he's going to (capital Q) Quit one of his bands so he won't have as many gigs! He just recorded a blues and rock CD! He think's it's pretty good! He sent a picture of himself! What do I look like?! He doesn't have any pets! (I didn't ask). But, he did have a cat for 16 years! It just died! Now he's going to adopt a Chihuahua soon! The poor dog has the worst case of timidity he's ever seen! I could go on, but think I'll stop! Bye for now!
Temmie!
Posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 16:44:20
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Dena, posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 15:33:37
Temmie -
Help! After reading your post I feel like I've been watching a ping-pong game, only I'm the ball! Really! That's what it feels like! Whew!
Hmmm... so are you going to send him a photo & meet him & his chihuahua, & become his groupie & adopt his chihuahua & meet his parents & marry him & have a baby who terrorizes his (& now your) chihuahua? (sometimes I project) ;}
Seriously, I'm thinking how it must be human nature to rush to fill the void. You've lost Paul, & the emptiness calls out to be filled. I've lost my baby, & all I can think of is when I can get pregnant again.
(& now I'm wondering why I think I have the right to say this to you - forgive me if I'm being presumptuous...)
Maybe letting the empty place stay empty til it's healed is wise.
It hurts to say that. Does it hurt to hear it?
(see how quickly I went from silly to sad? My emotions are all over the place lately!)Should I even post this? I've felt touched by your saga, empathized with your pain, & felt drawn to get to know you. I hope I didn't cross the line. Let me know.
Shalom, Dena! (oops - silly again!)
Posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 17:33:05
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Temmie, posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 16:44:20
Stop! No, I mean it! Really! Stop!
I'm sorry for your loss dear, sweet, Dena. Never having lost a child (except for my 18-year old, who kind of blew me off today, really!), I can't imagine.
I'm so sorry.
Re. Paul and me, I don't know what to say.
I feel bonded with this man at a very deep level, and continue to feel so .... I guess I haven't done enough suffering yet (really! I really mean it!).
Seriously -- I just don't know what to say.
I am still in love with a deeply flawed man, and still working on letting go of him -- not so much to fill with another, although that would be nice -- if Mr. gee-I-feel-so-bonded-with-you-in-my-soul would only pop up -- but to let go so he can do his thing, I can do mine -- and if we're both alive at the end of the next year or so (and he's clean and sober) ... maybe we can see. I've got a big challenge ahead with difficult kids in a difficult school, and a graduate program that will surely test my confidence and capabilities (just wait! You'll be hearing all about it this fall!).
I've gotta focus on my own stuff here (Really!), and Lord knows, Paul's gotta full plate. I'll keep an eye open in the meantime but (honestly!), I'm not really looking. I'm too busy.
I didn't take offense at anything you said. Of course we all long for comfort, solace, understanding, love -- and for all of our voids and sadnesses to be filled (or swept away!) in moments of despair.
Perfectly understandable thinking. (Really!)
Oh, I've gotta stop here, really!
Much, much love ~
Temmie
Posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 18:02:52
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Dena, posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 17:33:05
Thanks, Temmie, for your sympathy, for your insights & for your humor!
All are warmly welcomed.
Wow - an 18 year old son (my eldest son is 15). Funny, I had pictured you as a willowy, blonde, 25-year-old with flowers strewn through your hair. Of course, having a teenaged son does preclude you from being willowy or blonde (flowers optional), but it would put a damper on your being 25 ("Honestly, I had a baby when I was 7..."). Oh well, it was such a lovely picture that I think I'll hang on to it. (but not the pregnant 7 year old part)
I posted earlier about losing my baby (see The past four weeks: good bad news Dena 8/13/03). I don't remember what I wrote, but I was fresh from the loss (actually miscarrying that day). But since I haven't yet passed the baby's body, I'm still actually miscarrying. After 7 healthy babies I certainly thought I was born to breed, & never anticipated that this would happen. I painted a little pine box in my own style (I paint & sell furniture & stuff), w/ a little heart on the top, with the words, "Baby Samuel, June - August 2003. From the safety of the womb to the arms of Jesus" I'm just waiting, so that I can bury him beneath an azalea bush in my yard (azaleas are ever-green). I don't have a file for this. I've never carried around a dead body inside of me before. Just waiting...
I believe that God has been carrying me through this - otherwise how could I cope? I'm so sad - the background music of my life is a dirge right now, but the pain has lessened. I see my face in the mirror... it was so happy & glowy before (all right, I was breaking out from the hormones), & now my face looks so bleak & expressionless w/ dead eyes. I look old at 41. Last week I looked 30.
(I know, you imagined I was a statuesque redhead with a rose between my teeth!) (see, the sillines keeps erupting!)
I apologize to you (& others who may be reading) for going on & on about losing this baby. I can't seem to "get over it" they way some folks seem to think I should.
For those who've shown concern, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Tabitha on August 20, 2003, at 18:07:09
In reply to Trouble Accessing Current Posts, posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 14:34:24
Temmie, sometimes after logging on, I have to hit the 'refresh' button on my browser to get the current page to show up. This might help your problem. Really! Try it out!
Posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 18:36:25
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Temmie, posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 18:02:52
Dear Dena ~
I have to go back and read your earlier entries. Good Heavens. I had no idea. How sad to be carrying the body of your lost little soul. Pardon my asking, but is this also comforting in some way? Perhaps not. Perhaps not at all. I remember the joy I had in rubbing my pregnant belly when Jared was inside -- and after he popped out -- still chubby with that ... well -- fat -- how empty it felt ... how lost it seemed that the same rubs didn't bring me the same comfort and pleasure. Yet to be carrying the body of the little soul who has flown back to Heaven ... Is there any comfort at all?
Excuse me. There is no artful way of writing about this.
You are going through an enormous suffering, my dear, and I will pray for you ... without stopping. I am so sorry.
When will you deliver little Samuel? How many weeks gestation did he reach?
Hang on! Love is coming ...
* * * * *
One morning I woke up and I knew
You were really gone
A new day, a new way, and new
eyes to see the dawn
Go your way, I'll go mine and
Carry onThe sky is clearing and the night
Has gone out
The sun, he come, the world
is all full of light
Rejoice, rejoice, we have no choice but
To carry onCarry on
Love is coming
Love is coming to us all~ Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young
* * * * *
Thank you for your kind flowers-in-the-hair renditions of my image. You rather captured my spirit, my dear! I still have the long, blonde hair and the skip in my step, and -- lucky me -- I look forty-something -- but I'm fifty -- ta da -- fifty -- and life is not so bad.
As for you -- I know and understand the "looking into the eyes of a dead woman" phenomena you're talking about. You are grieving, honey. All the love and life of your heart ... much of it, anyhow ... has -- found little cause for expression. You are grieving, and you are a young, healthy, beautiful soul -- and you will get through this experience ....
And you will always be Samuel's mother ....
I feel ... funny ... mixing silly talk about my appearance with such serious discussion here. Forgive me.
We are all here for you.
Temmie
Posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 18:48:01
In reply to Re: about the current posts..., posted by Tabitha on August 20, 2003, at 18:07:09
Tabitha! Wow! What a great idea! Really! I don't know why I didn't think of that! I have a lot of ideas, some of them great, but this is one that escaped me! Alas, I have tried hitting "refresh," at least I think that's what I did, but it didn't work!
Oh me! Oh my! What will I do?!!!???
* * * * *
Seriously, I feel kind of wicked carrying on about poor, dear Ward, who meant no harm (really!). My son's father is visiting though, and works as a comedy writer. He helped me draft my reply.
Wickedly ... I wrote something like this:
Dear Ward!
So good to hear from you! Guess what?! I went out to breakfast this morning and met a really interesting man (at least I think it was a man!). (Just kidding!) I guess I'll be moving on! You know the song! Thanks for writing! I hope to be reading about you in "Rolling Stone" one day!
Best wishes, I really mean it!
Temmie* * * * *
I am so rotten, but I hope we've all had a good laugh. Laughter heals, I hear. Really!
T.
Posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 20:09:26
In reply to Oh, dear ... Dena. I'm so sorry. » Dena, posted by Temmie on August 20, 2003, at 18:36:25
Oh, Temmie -
What a real, honest, funny & sincere response to my pain & grief! I almost expect flower petals from your hair to be falling into my lap - as though you just gave me a big hug.
You asked if carrying Samuel's body is somehow comforting to me. Strangely, yes & no at the same time. Part of me wants to remain pregnant, & perhaps my "hanging on" emotionally is preventing my body from letting him go. I entertained fantasies prior to the last sonogram (the first sonogram showed that there was no heartbeat) that miraculously, the doctor would find a heartbeat & declare that he was still alive - or they would discover that I'd been pregnant with twins & I'd only lost one.
Last night I dreamt about someone being raised from the dead. This morning I read an account of St. Maximus who raised a child from the dead after he'd drowned. I know that God is fully able to do such a thing (though I realize the rarity of it). A tiny part of my mind began wondering whether I should be praying that God would restore my baby to life - could that be why his body was still inside of me, even though everything else had passed? But I believe my baby is with God, & so he wouldn't want to return - he'd be very happy where he is. Ah, the grief-infused mental meanderings of a mourning mother...
I've been racking my brain for reasons why this happened... could it be the litter box I changrd before I knew I was pregnant? Or the nasty infection I got from a tick bite? Or all that spray varnish I used almost daily (without a mask)for several months? Or my husband's Graves' disease & the radioactive treatments he received? Or am I just too old to have another baby?
It just doesn't seem real. I'm the one who has easy pregnancies, no morning sickness, no complications, easy deliveries (relatively speaking that is), healthy big babies, long periods of nursing. I've always eaten well, stayed in shape, taken my prenatal vitamins, attended every one of those prenatal exams. This wasn't supposed to happen (ok, I'm obviously in the denial stage of grief)!
Yes, I loved that part of pregnancy when I could feel my babies squirming inside (not to mention squashing my bladder & bruising my ribs!). I loved that secret communication between me & my baby! Toward the end, when it wasn't such a secret anymore, we'd turn off the TV & I'd lift up my shirt to expose my huge belly (I weigh 100 lbs, but my babies were around 9 lbs - I looked like a watermelon with four toothpicks sticking out of it!), & we'd play "Name that appendage!" "That's a leg - no, a hand! No, it's a bottom!" And after delivery, yes, I loved holding a sweet-smelling, soft-as-silk baby, but I missed feeling full of another life. That proud, round, productive belly had turned into a sad, sagging, deflated baloon.
My Samuel was only 7.5 weeks into gestation, just about an inch long, with arms, legs, head & eyes well defined. I could see him on the sonogram. But so still - no pulsing heart!
You wrote: "I feel ... funny ... mixing silly talk about my appearance with such serious discussion here. Forgive me."
It's ok. I've been mixing the silly with the devastating since this happened. One moment, I'm feeling dead inside, & the next I'm singing "Deep & Wide" with my 18 month old, & laughing at her interpretive dance! One moment wondering when my baby's body will pass, & the next talking to my 5 year old son about what color hair Samuel must have.
Life does go on. I will heal. This will make me stronger. God is still worthy of my trust. The need to understand will lessen. And ultimately, one day, I will understand.
Thanks for being "there".
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Penny on August 22, 2003, at 8:56:03
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Temmie, posted by Dena on August 20, 2003, at 18:02:52
> I apologize to you (& others who may be reading) for going on & on about losing this baby. I can't seem to "get over it" they way some folks seem to think I should.Dena,
I just happened to wander over to the PB faith board and saw your posts - and I was struck by the above statement. No apologies necessary - I am upset by the fact that some folks seem to think you should be able to just "get over it." I have never had a child or lost a child, but losing a child is something I don't think one "gets over." Perhaps one day you will better be able to handle the grief, but in the meantime, post here as often as you need to, and go on and on about your baby as often as you need to. My mother had a miscarriage when I was four, and she still thinks about the baby she lost (she was 16 weeks pregnant). My grandmother also talks about her miscarriage - her second baby. She still wonders what that baby would have been like.
Your story has truly touched me and brought tears to my eyes. Thank you for sharing. I wish you peace.
P
Posted by Dena on August 23, 2003, at 15:41:06
In reply to Re: Trouble Accessing Current Posts » Dena, posted by Penny on August 22, 2003, at 8:56:03
Penny,
Thank you for your gentle words. Thank you for understanding & being supportive of my grief.
No one is specifically telling me to "get over it" - it's probably my fear & paranoia projecting onto others. But I know the impatience I've felt when others seemed to be preoccupied with a topic. Perhaps I've learned to be more sensitive to others through this, & to be more patient & understanding of others grief & suffering in general.
But I can imagine I'll always reserve a place in my heart & my memory for this little one I've had to surrender before I was ready. I've "birthed" a child in a different way than before... this one is forever an eternal creature, rather than first a mortal one. He's happy now, & wouldn't want to return to me if he could. He knows, & I know, that I'll join him one day when my time & purpose here ends. Until then, I'll miss him, but not with the devastation of complete loss. This separation is only temporary - my real home is where he is now. All of this, including grief, pain, loss, suffering & death will pass away. Amen!
Thanks again for your kindness - you touched my heart as well.
Shalom, Dena
This is the end of the thread.
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