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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by dreamboat_annie on December 12, 2006, at 20:00:24
Hi,
I was just wondering if anyone has taken Rhodiola while they were also taking an AD. I am on an SSRI now and would like to try Rhodiola. I did some checking and couldn't find anything that would indicate the potential for an interaction, but wanted to check with others here who have used it. I had also read that Rhodiola enhances but does not inhibit MAO, which is why I thought it may be a problem combining it with an AD. In the research I did, however, I had read about it being taken with an AD without causing any problems. I worry a lot about interactions and stuff, so I am sorry if this sounds silly.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks so much.
Posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 8:17:51
In reply to Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by dreamboat_annie on December 12, 2006, at 20:00:24
Innovative psychs use rhodiola to augment psych drugs. No specific knowledge beyond that.
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 9:10:45
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 8:17:51
Rhodiola tends to poop out.
The effect is similar to ginseng, so it may cause insomnia and potentiate cortisol (stress chemical)I would try fish oil instead. Studies have shown that fish oil improves the effect of SSRI.
Optimal dose is 1 gram EPA (equals 8-9 gram fish oil)
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 9:12:19
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 8:17:51
Sorry Declan I was reffering to dreamboat_annie
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 13, 2006, at 10:30:17
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » Declan, posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 9:12:19
Hey
For some reason I can't see Declan's post. It just comes up as blank! Its very rhetorical through.
Anyway, well hmmm. Personally, I wouldn't combine rhodiola with any AD unless under the supervision of someone experienced with rhodiola, which will probably be around 4 pdocs in the US. I think it has been done, but obviously, I wouldn't recommend going it alone. Rhodiola is very safe, but the thing is, it hasn't been used that much yet in the western world, so obviously there hasn't been time yet for things to be known about it. If you read the "rhodiola revolution" you'll see that the authors (who are pdocs) have used it in conjunction with conventional meds. The only meds that they advise against are the stims, but thats only because rhodiola potentiates the effects of the stims.
Rhodiola on its own, however, is very nice. Gave me some anxiety issues, but otherwise it was nice.
I was under the impression that rhodiola works to decrease cortisol, deesbee? It is, after all, an adaptogen.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 13:37:44
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 13, 2006, at 10:30:17
What I know it only decreases cortisol in diabetics.
Posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 13:55:31
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » Declan, posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 9:12:19
Rhodiola certainly caused insomnia for me, otherwise I'd take it now.
As a spleen deficient individual, (yin or yang deficient?) ginseng is not for me.
I need stuff to draw the heat away from my head, so I was told.
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 13:55:35
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 13, 2006, at 10:30:17
As an adaptogen it potentiate the cortisol receptor. So even if cortisol level decreases, the total stress level increases (anxiety) due to increased receptor sensitivy.
Posted by TenMan on December 13, 2006, at 14:39:40
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » dessbee, posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 13:55:31
I think desbee is on the right track. If you aren't taking 6-10 grams of fish oil already start that first. I take 20 grams daily and it has a profound impact on my mood and concentration.
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 14:55:08
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by TenMan on December 13, 2006, at 14:39:40
Hey TenMan, finally a soulmate!
I am on a fatty fish diet (20-30 gram fish oil daily). For some reason I do not tolerate refined fish oil. I suffer acne and insomnia.There are so many aspects/dimensions on how fish oil affects mood disorders like anxiety, depression, borderline disorders, PTSD etc
I really hope we get all water pollution and overfishing under control before it is too late. It really concerns me now that I know how dependent I am on its supply.
Posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 15:14:14
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » TenMan, posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 14:55:08
My guts wouldn't cope with 10-20g fish oil. I aim for a gram of EPA a day and what with various other oily things, that is about all I can manage.
I was told that bile acides could be increased by vinegar, lemon juice or small amount of ascorbic acid in water first thing in the morning, to help absorb the oil. Maybe this is some of what a spleen deficiency is meant to mean?
So, Desbee, you just eat lots of oily fish? You must eat a lot of it to be equivalent to that amount of fish oil.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 13, 2006, at 15:18:46
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » dessbee, posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 15:14:14
> So, Desbee, you just eat lots of oily fish? You must eat a lot of it to be equivalent to that amount of fish oil..........and aren't you concerned about any toxic residues in the fat?
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 16:15:28
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » dessbee, posted by Declan on December 13, 2006, at 15:14:14
I have no clue on how to improve fish oil absorption. There are fish oil brands with concentrated EPA/DHA, that way you would decrease the total amount of oil needed.
I eat alot of herring, mackerel and salmon, which all contain 10% fish oil. It is really just one portion (200-300 gram) of fish every day.
I am also interested in sardines, since their fat content is very nice, 20%. So far I have not found a supplier of fresh sardines, but I am working on it :-)Studies show that optimal dose is 1 gram EPA so I guess 20-30 gram is overkill :-) but right now I feel that fish is such a blessing (nature's blessing)
Posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 16:38:30
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 13, 2006, at 15:18:46
Yes I am concerned, but I rather die from water pollution than from my depression.
It is important to buy fish from 'safe' fishing areas. I try to eat only northern atlantic fish, since it is considered safe.
It is really upsetting how some industries pollute our water just to optimize their profit.From a the AAAS (American Association for the Advancement of Science) panel in St. Louis:
"I would recommend eating fish 4-7 times a week. The evidence still suggests that seafood plays a role in reducing coronary heart disease - and new studies suggest that it may reduce the onset of Alzheimer's as well as other mental illnesses.
What people hear about the hypothetical risk of eating fish laced with contaminants bears little relation to the scientific evidence.
10-year study of more than 700 children living in the Seychelles Islands. The children's mothers averaged 12 meals of fish a week - about 10 times the average fish consumption of individuals in the United States - and those fish contained high levels of methylmercury.
Yet cognitive tests on the children, taken multiple times over the years, found no cognitive defects or other maladies normally attributed to mercury absorption.
If seafood consumption continues to rise, the demand may overcome the supply. And despite rapid growth, aquaculture has yet to fill the gap."
http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2006/Feb06/seafood.htm
Posted by TenMan on December 14, 2006, at 10:13:18
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » TenMan, posted by dessbee on December 13, 2006, at 14:55:08
Hey dessbee,
That's weird that you cannot tolerate fish oil capsules. What brand were you taking? I just take a cheap Sundown brand but I wonder if perhaps a more concentrated blend would've worked better for you?
The inclusion of fish oil has been without a doubt the single most effective thing I've done for my mental health. I've been taking it for a couple of years now and have no plans to stop. As far as I'm concerned the benefits far outweigh the risks. Besides from what I've read the process that removes the cholesterol from the oil also removes the mercury and toxins. The brand I take passed a safety review by consumerlabs.com.
Posted by dessbee on December 14, 2006, at 12:12:48
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » dessbee, posted by TenMan on December 14, 2006, at 10:13:18
I know, it is really weird. I have tried several brands. Bottled regular fish oil, concentrated fish oil, free fatty acids EPA/DHA and ethyl-EPA. The more processed the fish oil is the worse symptoms I get.
Ethyl-EPA was really weird. It relieved my depression almost instantly until insomnia finally took over and kicked me right back. It also made my skin thin, wrinkled and fragile.
I think concentrated free fatty acids EPA/DHA is one of the most potent fish oils out there if it wasn't for the insomnia.
I am not too worried about my fish diet. Eskimos eat fish daily, japanese and portuguese several times a week. Japanese have no problems with life expectancy.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2006, at 14:38:14
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » TenMan, posted by dessbee on December 14, 2006, at 12:12:48
>Eskimos eat fish daily, japanese and portuguese several times a week. Japanese have no problems with life expectancy.
Its a well know fact that arctic animals (particulary polar bears) contain completely unacceptable amounts of environmental toxins in their bodies. I study environmental science, please believe me on this one. I honestly wonder if inhuit nowadays stick to a completely traditional diet. Yes the Japanese eat alot of fish, but effects from environmental toxins won't show up as cancer (or whatever) for several decades *at least*. People who are 80 nowadays in Japan, simply wouldn't have had a lifetime of exposure to these toxins like we face today. As for Portugal, well I have been there and they don't seem to eat any more fish that we do in the Scandivania! And, moderation is key I feel.
I'm not against fish oil or eating fish, just remember that all good things come in moderation. If I could find organic salmon, I would happy to eat it 2-3 times a week.
Posted by dessbee on December 14, 2006, at 15:17:40
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on December 14, 2006, at 14:38:14
Well, I let you know how I feel when I turn 80 ;-)
What I know, the toxins may affect cognitive function, but I am kind of hoping fish oil will balance it out, since fish oil is good for cognitive function.
A problem with polar bears is that they are higher up in the food chain. They eat seals and humans, that's way off my diet.
I agree, toxins is a serious issue but I just have no alternative right now. Do not tolerate regular fish oil.
Posted by linkadge on December 15, 2006, at 21:30:36
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by dessbee on December 14, 2006, at 15:17:40
I don't know. Rhodiola is a COMT inhibitor. I had heard that it was a MAOI, but I could be mistaken.
In terms of eating fish itself, other constituents may be ballancing the effect of the fish oil. Fish contains taurine, which may reduce some of the o3 side effects(?) If I take too much o3 I can get some insomnia, but taurine 500mg-1g is great at reducing that.
Omega-3 and taurine go very well together.
Linkadge
Posted by dessbee on December 16, 2006, at 10:36:26
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by linkadge on December 15, 2006, at 21:30:36
I will look into that
Thanx
Posted by dreamboat_annie on December 16, 2006, at 11:05:38
In reply to Re: Rhodiola with an AD (SSRI) - is it ok?, posted by linkadge on December 15, 2006, at 21:30:36
This is the end of the thread.
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