![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 56 to 80 of 435. Go back in thread:
Posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 14:09:55
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 3, 2004, at 10:14:59
> > I recently went on vacation with my sister and her family. I was quite worried before I left about not having the energy to make conversation the whole time and I was afraid that I'd be a total drag and ruin everyone's time. Fortunately that didn't happen - I think because I'm anergic but not totally anhedonic. I was able to enjoy some things and to laugh quite a bit. Your sense of humor is wonderful so I'm thinking you might be the same way.
>
> Exactly the same.
>
> > Still, it was hard for me to be with my family in the sense that they don't fully get it. Their attitude is "just do it and don't think about it so much." Arrrggg!! You just want to scream. I try to tell them that what they're saying to me is like trying to tell a blind person to see or telling someone with broken legs to walk. The lack of motivation is the nature of the beast! All to no avail of course. But I digress...
>
> As if anyone would intentionally live like this...YES! THANK YOU!
>
> > Back to what I'm taking. Right now I'm taking about 18 mg. of Effexor as I slowly decrease it in hopes of going off of it entirely. It helped me a little bit but not a lot. I have tried several other meds (doxepin, Prozac, nortriptyline, desipramine, Zoloft and Paxil). Only the Prozac was I able to tolerate and get a successful antidepressant response from but it only lasted a short while. The doxepin totally got rid of the anxiety and panic attacks however.
>
> I am currently on Wellbutrin and Xanax. The Wellbutrin has helped the depression and I feel (relatively) quite well with the exception of insomnia, but I am wondering if the Wellbutrin has contributed to the overtaxing of my adrenal system. Not sure... But if it works for the depression/anxiety, I don't dare touch it! I have been on Effexor too, and have done fairly well on it. Just recently I was on Lexapro and that didn't go well at all. I have also taken Paxil, Zoloft, Buspar, Seroquel, and a few others that escape my memory. I have been on meds for over 9 years now.
>
> > One thing that sounds different for the two of us is that your situation sounds fairly recent. I have been battling depression my entire adult life. Stress may have thrown your system out of kilter but I know that I have a strong genetic component to my depression. I have also had different kinds of depression over the years. Most of the time it has been anxious depression but now it is lethargic in nature or atypical so what might have worked for me a few years ago might not work for me at all now. The different manifestation of the depression might have something to do with adrenal fatigue however.
>
> Well, actually there again we are quite similar. I have had depression since childhood. My earliest memory of depressive behavior was at around 8 years old when my father died. And it basically followed me to some degree my whole life (I am now 43). I remember anxiety even earlier than that. I didn't start having panic attacks though until after my first daughter was born when I was 28. There is a strong genetic tendency on my mother's side for alcohol/drug abuse (ALL of her brother and sisters), although I don't really remember any of them being treated for depressed or anxiety per se.
>WOW, Simus, you're not going to believe this but my father also died when I was 8 years old. I never married or had children so in that we definitely differ. I don't have the support network you have but neither do I have the constant pressure of having to interact with my family's friends or co-workers. I have less to worry about in terms of living up to their expectations as well. My mother is a very anxious/neurotic person with a slight tendency towards depression (but not to the degree that I am). I mean she's much more neurotic but not as depressive. My panic attacks started when I was 24 and I'm 49 now so we are similar there too. (I haven't had a panic attack in eons - thank G-d for small favors.)
> > In terms of vitamins and supplements, I'm taking a good multi, B-complex, Ester C, E, small amount of fish oil, Evening Primrose Oil, MSN, Calcium/Magnesium and sometimes extra folic acid and B12. Nothing too exciting there but I find that when I take them religiously I get sick less often and I'm less likely to get a CFS attack. I've tried a few things for immune support: Echinnacea, Beta-Glucan, Olive Leaf, reishi mushrooms. I don't know if they help or not but I take them when I feel sick anyway.
>
> I take very similar supplements, except that extra vitamin C and B5 are suggested for adrenal fatigue (among other things). I also try to do the ginseng/ginger/green tea daily. I need to get into the digestive enzymes more faithfully, along with some of the amino acids and herbals.
>You definitely sound better and on the road to recovery. Have you ever considered taking probiotics or triphala?
> Right now I am struggling with what to do about the weight I have gained on the meds, especially in light of the fact that I need to not over-stress my body until my adrenals have recovered. Any ideas???
>
Do you take anything to help with sleep? Tryptophan is supposed to help with that and it is also supposed to dampen the appetite. That wouldn't tax your adrenals either.
I'll send you another message later with all of the things I want to try in the future.
Also, would you mind telling me what part of the country you live in? I live in L.A - at least for now.
> (Thanks for taking the time to respond.)
>
> Simus
>
> P.S. Or you could save the response for when we are chatting with Larry and his better half in the hot-tub. LOL
Kara
P.S. We should call over and make sure Larry and his girlfriend save us some space. If not, we could always ask them later at night when we're camped out with our sleeping bags in their hotel room!
Posted by Simus on August 3, 2004, at 21:36:25
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 14:09:55
> WOW, Simus, you're not going to believe this but my father also died when I was 8 years old. I never married or had children so in that we definitely differ. I don't have the support network you have but neither do I have the constant pressure of having to interact with my family's friends or co-workers. I have less to worry about in terms of living up to their expectations as well.
I don't know how/if I would have made it through if it hadn't been for my kids. The thought of the tears on their sweet faces has made me pull out of many episodes of just wanting to "permanently quit" this battle.
>My mother is a very anxious/neurotic person with a slight tendency towards depression (but not to the degree that I am). I mean she's much more neurotic but not as depressive.
Exactly like mine. My mother was the only one in her family that didn't fight substance abuse, but she always had "bad nerves".
> You definitely sound better and on the road to recovery. Have you ever considered taking probiotics or triphala?
I know little about probiotics and absolutely nothing about triphala. What do you know about them? Have you tried them?
> Do you take anything to help with sleep? Tryptophan is supposed to help with that and it is also supposed to dampen the appetite. That wouldn't tax your adrenals either.I need serious help with sleep! Isn't tryptophan the amino acid that was banned in this country? I have read a lot about 5HTP (I think that is right), but I was a little concerned about serotonin syndrome when I was on Lexapro so I didn't try it. But that probably wouldn't be a problem now that I am on Wellbutrin. I will have to look into it again.
> Also, would you mind telling me what part of the country you live in? I live in L.A - at least for now.Central Michigan.
By the way, I sure hope Larry has a sense of humor! LOL
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 1:17:30
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 3, 2004, at 21:36:25
> > WOW, Simus, you're not going to believe this but my father also died when I was 8 years old. I never married or had children so in that we definitely differ. I don't have the support network you have but neither do I have the constant pressure of having to interact with my family's friends or co-workers. I have less to worry about in terms of living up to their expectations as well.
>
> I don't know how/if I would have made it through if it hadn't been for my kids. The thought of the tears on their sweet faces has made me pull out of many episodes of just wanting to "permanently quit" this battle.
>I'm glad that you have your children in your life. I'm on better terms now with my mother and sister but there was a time when I didn't hear much from either of them. My sister was too busy in her life and my mother was disgusted with me because she doesn't understand that I'm ill. I don't know how I kept going some of that time.
> >My mother is a very anxious/neurotic person with a slight tendency towards depression (but not to the degree that I am). I mean she's much more neurotic but not as depressive.
>
> Exactly like mine. My mother was the only one in her family that didn't fight substance abuse, but she always had "bad nerves".> > You definitely sound better and on the road to recovery. Have you ever considered taking probiotics or triphala?
>
> I know little about probiotics and absolutely nothing about triphala. What do you know about them? Have you tried them?Probiotics basically means acidophilus and the like. It's good for your system and digestion to keep the balance of good bacteria. Triphala is something I only recently learned about. It's Ayurvedic and it's supposed to be a great "tonic" for the body. My friend is taking it now. Do a search or look at the info on it at iHerb.com. It seems exactly like the kind of thing that would help a lot with adrenal fatigue. I think I'm going to order it.
>
> > Do you take anything to help with sleep? Tryptophan is supposed to help with that and it is also supposed to dampen the appetite. That wouldn't tax your adrenals either.> I need serious help with sleep! Isn't tryptophan the amino acid that was banned in this country? I have read a lot about 5HTP (I think that is right), but I was a little concerned about serotonin syndrome when I was on Lexapro so I didn't try it. But that probably wouldn't be a problem now that I am on Wellbutrin. I will have to look into it again.
>Yes, tryptophan was banned here because there was some out of Japan that wasn't pure - had some other stuff in it that made people quite ill. But it wasn't the tryptophan itself. It's still sold here in certain holistic doctor's offices or you can order it on-line from abroad. Larry gave us a site on-line that he gets it from which is a site for veterinary supplies. As he put it "no one feeds crap to very expensive horses." If you're not comfortable with that, I understand. I'm a little uncomfortable with it myself and if it didn't come from Larry, I wouldn't consider it at all. The 5-htp, that's also somewhat controversial. Some people think that it becomes serotonin outside of the brain which could lead to problems. Larry thinks that it is harmless but that it's not terribly efficient. You can search for his answers on both of these things.
Did you say that you take ginseng? If so, which kind and how much? I guess it's not supposed to be a good thing to take if you're hypoglycemic so I'm trying to find another adaptogen to take. I was on Maca for hotflashes which worked so well and then pooped out. Maybe I just need to take much more of it. I'm not having much luck with rhodiola either yet. I guess I'll try Ashwagandha next. I'm running out of choices for adaptogens which seems to be a really important part of the healing for adrenal fatigue.
> > Also, would you mind telling me what part of the country you live in? I live in L.A - at least for now.
>
> Central Michigan.
>It's erie how many similarities there are in our lives. I went to the University of Michigan and lived in Ann Arbor for about 9 years.
> By the way, I sure hope Larry has a sense of humor! LOL
>> Simus
I'm sure Larry would laugh at all of our wise-cracks. (His girlfriend might not find it as funny.)
Posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 23:08:43
In reply to Re: what I'm taking, posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 1:17:30
In terms of things I'm trying or planning on trying here's most of them. I'll try the majority of them separately of course.
FOR DEPRESSION:
Rhodiola Rosea (also for adaptogen purposes)
St. John's Wort (Perika)
Inositol
TMG
L-tyrosine
DLPA (in larger dose than tried before)
L-glutamineCymbalta
Selegiline Patch (EnSam when it's approved)
Wellbutrin? (may try it again)
Nortriptyline? (may try this again too)
Selegiline with DLPA
Parnate
Marplan
Myrapex?
Amisulpride?
FOR FOCUS/CONCENTRATION:
Concerta?Adderall (I'd take this with NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) and something to prevent tolerance if necessary.)
Strattera
Gingko (also for health benefits and AD)
Picamilon
Piracetam and/or Aniracetam
Hydergine(These last 4 are "smart drugs" or nootropics for increased focus and concentration.)
FOR HEALTH AND ADRENAL FUNCTION:probiotics (probably not everyday)
Ashwagandha
Maca
(the last 2 are adaptogens since I can't take
gingseng and may not be able to take Rhodiola)
Jarrow green drink (with lots of antioxidants including ginger and green tea and a small amount of the adaptogen licorice.)
NOW Brand Candida CleanseChromium (just started that for stabilizing blood sugar and possible AD effect)
Wolfberry
MSM with Glucosamine and Chondroitin
Coenzyme Q10
Idebenone
Phosphatydlserine?
NAC
Alpha Lipoic Acid
FOR SLEEP IF NEEDED:valerian (makes 10% of people hyper though - my luck I'll be one of them)
tryptophan/5-htp
GABA
taurine
Ambien and Sonata
Benzos (only if absolutely necessary)
I just reread the description of triphala and I don't think I'm going to go with that right now. It's for colon cleansing and more in line with candidiasis treatment.By now you're probably very sorry you asked!
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 6, 2004, at 0:33:18
In reply to Re: Hey Lar, you forgot to tell us ... » KaraS, posted by simus on August 2, 2004, at 18:44:02
> > You forgot to tell us where you're going to be so we can all (hundreds of us) drop in and say hello!!! (LOL)
>
> And since at that point the all the romance would be out the window, could we bring some health questions for you to answer in person? (Chatting on the Internet can be so impersonal.)I'll have you know I didn't get a wink of sleep that first night, worrying as I was about my privacy. ;-)
Later,
LarP.S. I should be home Friday the 13th, the most auspicious day to travel.
Posted by Simus on August 7, 2004, at 1:13:52
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying - Simus, posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 23:08:43
Hey Kara,
I have not been ignoring you. I just have been very busy lately. (No, not searching through all of the Holiday Inns looking for Larry. But now that I think about it... LOL)
Wow! You have done some homework! I have had enough bad reactions to so many drugs and some supplements that I would rather stay at so-so than take the chance of upsetting the apple cart again. Is that too pathetic??? Once in a while I will try something new though. I still want to study up on some of the things you have listed because I have never even heard of them.
By the way, do I remember you writing that you are on sick leave or disability? My doctor put me on an extended sick leave back in February and I was immediately replaced. But in all fairness, it wasn't a job that could sit open for weeks, or even days. I do miss work. But every time I think about looking for a job, I have to wonder how in the world I would be able to pull it off in my health condition. Who would hire me like this??? (Just curious - what is/was your line of work? You don't have to answer, of course. But I just picture you as a very bright professional woman.)
All the best to you,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 7, 2004, at 14:26:55
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying - Simus » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 7, 2004, at 1:13:52
> Hey Kara,
>
> I have not been ignoring you. I just have been very busy lately.
No problem. I recognize that some people actually have a life. Please don't feel the need to get back to me immediately. I don't want our conversation to be an extra stressor or burden.
(No, not searching through all of the Holiday Inns looking for Larry. But now that I think about it... LOL)
What a riot you are! Didn't you just roar when you saw Larry's response the other day?
>
> Wow! You have done some homework!
Thanks. I used to consider myself very knowledgeable about supplements and antidepressants until I started participating here. It's been quite humbling yet I am so happy to have the help and the feedback.
> I have had enough bad reactions to so many drugs and some supplements that I would rather stay at so-so than take the chance of upsetting the apple cart again. Is that too pathetic??? Once in a while I will try something new though. I still want to study up on some of the things you have listed because I have never even heard of them.
>I have done a lot of homework - but not nearly as much trying of things. Again, I am more like you. I am afraid to try things (I too have had bad reactions) plus my anergia and avoidance personality disorder have not made me very proactive in that respect. Unfortunately, it's "no pain, no gain" or should I say "no risk, no gain" in this case so I know that I have to push myself more.
What things are you thinking of trying and how are the supplements you're taking now working out? If there's anything in particular you're interested in, I can probably direct you to some good information. The "Adenal Fatigue" book you recommended says that I should be quitting caffeine. I knew it was going to say that but I dread the thought of giving up my beloved java (if I think it's hard gettin out of bed now...).
> By the way, do I remember you writing that you are on sick leave or disability? My doctor put me on an extended sick leave back in February and I was immediately replaced. But in all fairness, it wasn't a job that could sit open for weeks, or even days. I do miss work. But every time I think about looking for a job, I have to wonder how in the world I would be able to pull it off in my health condition. Who would hire me like this??? >
It does sound like you are missing work but it's probably also quite nice not to have that pressure on you right now so that you can heal. You still have the future and it sounds like you've made a lot of improvement. Your depression is much better on the Wellbutrin and your adrenal fatigue is better because of your program to address it, right? What would you say are your worst symptoms right now that would make work difficult? Brain fog? Lack of memory? Energy level? Depression? You have previously stated your line of work - which I imagine would require a lot of concentration, attention to detail and speed (as does mine).I wish I were on sick-leave or disability. I'm just plain unemployed and running out of money. My family is much better now but they still astound me. My mother recently said, when I told her that I was having some bad side effects from the Rhodiola, "Oh, why are you bothering with all that stuff?" The level of ignorance and denial that I have had to deal with is just staggering. But enough of my complaining...
>(Just curious - what is/was your line of work? You don't have to answer, of course. But I just picture you as a very bright professional woman.)> All the best to you,
>
> SimusThanks. I have an MBA but have never really lived up to the degree. My jobs have not been very high level for a number of reasons. Aside from the depression and debilitating symptoms, I chose a field that was not right for me at all - for all of the wrong reasons (which I won't bore you with today). Changing careers at this stage of the game is not going to be easy either.
My last job was a nightmare. I didn't actually get fired as I chose to leave because my boss was not happy with me at all. This was despite the fact that I worked so hard (never left before 8:00 at night) and saved his butt a couple of times due to my accurate reading of situations and foresight in addressing them. I have since learned that he was on his fifth person in just over a year so I know it wasn't entirely my fault. I did have symptoms that slowed me down a lot and the lack of energy was too apparent yet he also had very unrealistic expectations. In addition I had a back-stabbing co-worker who paraded as a friend. It was so much more than my already fragile, rejection-sensitive self could stand. I have been working doing some temporary work for a couple of places recently. One of these experiences has been quite good for me. I get some positive feedback and enjoy the people a lot. It gets me out of the house as well, which is good in and of itself. I just need to do much more and soon.
I'm hoping that this Perika (the most dopaminergic and stimulating of the St. John's Wort formulations) I started on recently and an adrenal fatigue program (still being devised) will give me the boost I need to start making much needed initiatives very soon. I'll keep you posted as to what works for me.
In the meantime, I'm off to hunt for Larry!
Take care,
Kara
Posted by Simus on August 7, 2004, at 15:46:35
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying - Simus, posted by KaraS on August 7, 2004, at 14:26:55
> Didn't you just roar when you saw Larry's response the other day?
=)
> What things are you thinking of trying and how are the supplements you're taking now working out?Well, to be honest, I first need to be more dedicated to taking the supplements I am already on EVERY day and not get lax here and there. They seem to work well over time. I had noticed an immediate improvement on P-5-P (B6) for brain fog and edema, and also B5 (that's a big for getting over adrenal fatigue). The magnesium, vitamin C and quercetin helped with allergies very quickly too. But I know I need more C than what I am taking. I would like to add some aminos acids and get back on the digestive enzymes (these made me SO hungry though - don't know why). I am trying to get up the nerve to try some basic herbals like licorice. The herbals sound harmless, but I haven't always had good reactions to them so I am a little leary... Anyway, my goal is to just be more disciplined with getting the basics regularly, getting enough of them, and THEN I want to start adding to them.
> If there's anything in particular you're interested in, I can probably direct you to some good information.
Thanks. I always have questions.
> The "Adenal Fatigue" book you recommended says that I should be quitting caffeine. I knew it was going to say that but I dread the thought of giving up my beloved java (if I think it's hard gettin out of bed now...).
Hey, you got the book! Do you like it?
And yep. Coffee would have been a hard one to give up at one time for me too, but on Wellbutrin I can't handle caffeine well, so it is no big deal now. I drink green tea and ginseng tea for a more natural "pick-me-up" feeling. I never really liked the caffeine jittery feeling anyway.
> It does sound like you are missing work but it's probably also quite nice not to have that pressure on you right now so that you can heal.Very true.
> Your depression is much better on the Wellbutrin and your adrenal fatigue is better because of your program to address it, right?
I have virtually no depression and very little anxiety now on Wellbutrin - that is, if I get enough sleep, eat right, and take the supplements. The adrenal fatigue symptoms are MUCH better - but they are quick to come back if I don't take the supplements, get enough rest, or if I become stressed physically or emotionally.
> What would you say are your worst symptoms right now that would make work difficult? Brain fog? Lack of memory? Energy level? Depression?
Without question the number one problem now is sleep. I do very, very well when I get enough sleep. But when I push myself (like on vacation) to go to bed when everyone else does (and lay there for a few hours with my mind racing) and get up when everyone else does (they're well rested - I'm exhausted), I am a complete mess after a couple days. I can't imagine feeling like that and trying to get work done too. (Well, actually I can imagine it. Every time I had a job where I started early in the morning, even in my teens, I felt bad all day long: exhausted, trouble concentrating and remembering, blood sugar drops, etc.)
> My mother recently said, when I told her that I was having some bad side effects from the Rhodiola, "Oh, why are you bothering with all that stuff?" The level of ignorance and denial that I have had to deal with is just staggering.You're right. It's just ignorance. There is no way to understand what it is like to live like this unless you go through it yourself.
> I have an MBA but have never really lived up to the degree... Aside from the depression and debilitating symptoms... I did have symptoms that slowed me down a lot and the lack of energy was too apparent...
How well I understand that! Every little thing seems monumental...
>I have been working doing some temporary work for a couple of places recently. One of these experiences has been quite good for me. I get some positive feedback and enjoy the people a lot. It gets me out of the house as well, which is good in and of itself. I just need to do much more and soon.
Yes, I understand how important it is to just get out of the house be around people. And if you find something that you enjoy and you are appreciated too, go for it!
> I'm hoping that this Perika (the most dopaminergic and stimulating of the St. John's Wort formulations) I started on recently and an adrenal fatigue program (still being devised) will give me the boost I need to start making much needed initiatives very soon. I'll keep you posted as to what works for me.Good luck!
> In the meantime, I'm off to hunt for Larry!Ha! You take everything west of the Mississippi, and I will handle the rest.
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 2:45:17
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 7, 2004, at 15:46:35
> Well, to be honest, I first need to be more dedicated to taking the supplements I am already on EVERY day and not get lax here and there. They seem to work well over time.
I hear you. Recently I've gotten so tired of taking things. I didn't used to mind it but now I'm sick of it. So I slack off or stop altogether and I start feeling more ill again.
> I had noticed an immediate improvement on P-5-P (B6) for brain fog and edema, and also B5 (that's a big for getting over adrenal fatigue).
I take quite a bit of B vitamins now so I'll have to see how the totals compare to what is recommended in the book.
>The magnesium, vitamin C and quercetin helped with allergies very quickly too. But I know I need more C than what I am taking.
I'll have to compare my C intake against the book as well. I bought quercetin a while back but haven't used it diligently and probably not at a sufficient dose. I got lazy and started taking Zyrtec when I need it. I really should try the quercetin again though. How much do you take and do you take it everyday? Also, how much magnesium are you taking?
> I would like to add some aminos acids and get back on the digestive enzymes (these made me SO hungry though - don't know why).
That article that Larry recommended to me on adrenal fatigue emphasized taking l-tyrosine. I'm still debating whether to add that one though as I've tried it before to no avail. I felt absolutely nothing on it - not even the slightest bit of energy change. I think that something is malfunctioning, that my body isn't processing it as it should. I've still got some left here so maybe I should just use it up.
> I am trying to get up the nerve to try some basic herbals like licorice. The herbals sound harmless, but I haven't always had good reactions to them so I am a little leary...I am also apprehensive about trying things. It's scary. You just don't know how you're going to react and I always imagine the worst. I worry that I'll go into anaphylactic shock from each new supplement or medicine that I try. (I used to make sure I was around people when I first tried something new just in case.) Hope I haven't made you more fearful of trying things.
> Anyway, my goal is to just be more disciplined with getting the basics regularly, getting enough of them, and THEN I want to start adding to them.
Same here. I'm just adding St. John's Wort right now and trying to get my lifestyle, habits and diet to be healthier - though I don't really have the patience for all of that right now. I figure if I can get the depression under control, then I'll have more energy to devote to everything else.> > If there's anything in particular you're interested in, I can probably direct you to some good information.
>
> Thanks. I always have questions.I forgot to mention that my idea of directing you to good information is "find Larry and ask him". (LOL)
>
> The "Adenal Fatigue" book you recommended says that I should be quitting caffeine. I knew it was going to say that but I dread the thought of giving up my beloved java (if I think it's hard gettin out of bed now...).
>
> Hey, you got the book! Do you like it?
> And yep. Coffee would have been a hard one to give up at one time for me too, but on Wellbutrin I can't handle caffeine well, so it is no big deal now. I drink green tea and ginseng tea for a more natural "pick-me-up" feeling. I never really liked the caffeine jittery feeling anyway.I've only skimmed the book so far but I think it's going to be very helpful. Even once I've assimilated all of the information, it's the kind of book that is inspirational so worth going back to reread many times to keep yourself on the right path.
I have to find some good substitute for coffee. I hate tea and since I can't take gingseng, how will I ever wake up?> > It does sound like you are missing work but it's probably also quite nice not to have that pressure on you right now so that you can heal.
>
> Very true.
>
> > Your depression is much better on the Wellbutrin and your adrenal fatigue is better because of your program to address it, right?
>
> I have virtually no depression and very little anxiety now on Wellbutrin - that is, if I get enough sleep, eat right, and take the supplements. The adrenal fatigue symptoms are MUCH better - but they are quick to come back if I don't take the supplements, get enough rest, or if I become stressed physically or emotionally.That's awesome! I'm really envious.
>
> > What would you say are your worst symptoms right now that would make work difficult? Brain fog? Lack of memory? Energy level? Depression?
>
> Without question the number one problem now is sleep. I do very, very well when I get enough sleep. But when I push myself (like on vacation) to go to bed when everyone else does (and lay there for a few hours with my mind racing) and get up when everyone else does (they're well rested - I'm exhausted), I am a complete mess after a couple days. I can't imagine feeling like that and trying to get work done too. (Well, actually I can imagine it. Every time I had a job where I started early in the morning, even in my teens, I felt bad all day long: exhausted, trouble concentrating and remembering, blood sugar drops, etc.)You have to force yourself to try things for sleep. Then once you have that under control, you'll be so much better off. Of course there's always that issue of having to deal with the early hours. I hope that's fixable for both of our sakes.
>
> > My mother recently said, when I told her that I was having some bad side effects from the Rhodiola, "Oh, why are you bothering with all that stuff?" The level of ignorance and denial that I have had to deal with is just staggering.
>
> You're right. It's just ignorance. There is no way to understand what it is like to live like this unless you go through it yourself.Don't you wish you could force other people to experience this for just a little while so that they understand?
> > I have an MBA but have never really lived up to the degree... Aside from the depression and debilitating symptoms... I did have symptoms that slowed me down a lot and the lack of energy was too apparent...
>
> How well I understand that! Every little thing seems monumental...
>
> >I have been working doing some temporary work for a couple of places recently. One of these experiences has been quite good for me. I get some positive feedback and enjoy the people a lot. It gets me out of the house as well, which is good in and of itself. I just need to do much more and soon.
>
> Yes, I understand how important it is to just get out of the house be around people. And if you find something that you enjoy and you are appreciated too, go for it!
>
> > I'm hoping that this Perika (the most dopaminergic and stimulating of the St. John's Wort formulations) I started on recently and an adrenal fatigue program (still being devised) will give me the boost I need to start making much needed initiatives very soon. I'll keep you posted as to what works for me.So far this Perika is making me tired and nauseous. I hate having to take these things!!!! I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't work out.
Talk to you later.
Kara
>
> Good luck!
>
> > In the meantime, I'm off to hunt for Larry!
>
> Ha! You take everything west of the Mississippi, and I will handle the rest.
>
> Simus
Posted by Simus on August 8, 2004, at 13:39:35
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying, posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 2:45:17
> >The magnesium, vitamin C and quercetin helped with allergies very quickly too. But I know I need more C than what I am taking.
>
> I'll have to compare my C intake against the book as well. I bought quercetin a while back but haven't used it diligently and probably not at a sufficient dose. I got lazy and started taking Zyrtec when I need it. I really should try the quercetin again though. How much do you take and do you take it everyday? Also, how much magnesium are you taking?I take 500mg quercetin every day (almost). I usually only take 1g of vitamin C a day, but when the allergies are bad I usually take 2-3g. I really should take 2-3g every day since C is so important to the recovery of the adrenals. I take 400-600mg of a good form of magnesium a day - usually 400mg though. By the way, allergies go along with adrenal fatigue, and with the horrible adrenal exhaustion I had last spring, I suffered from the worst allergies of my life.
> > I would like to add some aminos acids and get back on the digestive enzymes (these made me SO hungry though - don't know why).
>
> That article that Larry recommended to me on adrenal fatigue emphasized taking l-tyrosine. I'm still debating whether to add that one though as I've tried it before to no avail. I felt absolutely nothing on it - not even the slightest bit of energy change. I think that something is malfunctioning, that my body isn't processing it as it should. I've still got some left here so maybe I should just use it up.I question whether or not my body processes proteins properly too. That is why I want to get back into the digestive enzymes. But I don't like the constant hunger I always feel with them. (Maybe it just means that they are working and my stomach is emptying faster???)
> > I am trying to get up the nerve to try some basic herbals like licorice. The herbals sound harmless, but I haven't always had good reactions to them so I am a little leary...
>
> I am also apprehensive about trying things. It's scary. You just don't know how you're going to react and I always imagine the worst. I worry that I'll go into anaphylactic shock from each new supplement or medicine that I try. (I used to make sure I was around people when I first tried something new just in case.) Hope I haven't made you more fearful of trying things.Nope. I am the same way.
> > > If there's anything in particular you're interested in, I can probably direct you to some good information.
> >
> > Thanks. I always have questions.
>
> I forgot to mention that my idea of directing you to good information is "find Larry and ask him". (LOL)HA! Love your sense of humor!!! Alas, my search for Larry the past few days has been in vain. He must be hidden away in some quaint Alpine chalet.
> I have to find some good substitute for coffee. I hate tea and since I can't take gingseng, how will I ever wake up?Well... I hate to recommend a drug... But since we are SO much alike, you may benefit from Wellbutrin. I just don't know. And I am not convinced that the Wellbutrin is good for people with adrenal fatigue either. I am just not comfortable with recommending it, but if you looked into it yourself and find it worth a try...
> > > My mother recently said, when I told her that I was having some bad side effects from the Rhodiola, "Oh, why are you bothering with all that stuff?" The level of ignorance and denial that I have had to deal with is just staggering.
> >
> > You're right. It's just ignorance. There is no way to understand what it is like to live like this unless you go through it yourself.
>
> Don't you wish you could force other people to experience this for just a little while so that they understand?
>
Hmmm... a shot of caffeine equal to four cups of coffee to understand anxiety/panic and the next day a shot of sleep meds and then force them to function as usual in spite of it??? The only difference is that after two days, they can go back to "normal", but we can't.> > > I'm hoping that this Perika (the most dopaminergic and stimulating of the St. John's Wort formulations) I started on recently and an adrenal fatigue program (still being devised) will give me the boost I need to start making much needed initiatives very soon. I'll keep you posted as to what works for me.
>
> So far this Perika is making me tired and nauseous. I hate having to take these things!!!! I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't work out.Sheesh! Who needs tired and nausious? Yuck.
Best of luck,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 15:10:57
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 8, 2004, at 13:39:35
> I take 500mg quercetin every day (almost). I usually only take 1g of vitamin C a day, but when the allergies are bad I usually take 2-3g. I really should take 2-3g every day since C is so important to the recovery of the adrenals. I take 400-600mg of a good form of magnesium a day - usually 400mg though. By the way, allergies go along with adrenal fatigue, and with the horrible adrenal exhaustion I had last spring, I suffered from the worst allergies of my life.
Only 500 mg. of quercetin works that well? I'll definitely have to start taking it again. My regimen includes mixed calcium/magnesium supplements that supply 400 mg. but I've been really bad about taking them since you have to take a minimum of 6 a day in order to get to 1000 mg. of calcium and 400 mg. of magnesium. (Funny but when I allow myself to take those little chocolate chews that taste like candy, I never have a problem filling my calcim requirement.)
>
> I question whether or not my body processes proteins properly too. That is why I want to get back into the digestive enzymes. But I don't like the constant hunger I always feel with them. (Maybe it just means that they are working and my stomach is emptying faster???)I would imagine that digestive enzymes making you hungry just means that they're doing their job...
> > > I am trying to get up the nerve to try some basic herbals like licorice. The herbals sound harmless, but I haven't always had good reactions to them so I am a little leary...
> >
> > I am also apprehensive about trying things. It's scary. You just don't know how you're going to react and I always imagine the worst. I worry that I'll go into anaphylactic shock from each new supplement or medicine that I try. (I used to make sure I was around people when I first tried something new just in case.) Hope I haven't made you more fearful of trying things.
>
> Nope. I am the same way.
Do you go to the same extreme in thinking that you're going to go into shock the minute the pill goes down the hatch? I finally decided I didn't care if that happened - that i have to risk it because living the way I'm living just isn't worth it. That was a major turning point for me and I haven't looked back.> HA! Love your sense of humor!!!
That's because it's a lot like yours...
>Alas, my search for Larry the past few days has been in vain. He must be hidden away in some quaint Alpine chalet.
We should have known he'd be too smart for us! Actually, he emerges every now and then to answer a question. I just read a post of his on the main board. And he's probably reading more posts than he answers. He ends his post by saying "OK, back to vacation mode." He just couldn't stand to stay away completely. He's too funny.
I read over on the Administration board that a Psycho-Babble 6th year anniversary party is being planned (for next year I think?) in Chicago. Wouldn't that be interesting? I'd love to meet the people I've been conversing with - esp. you and Larry. Larry would be treated like a rock star. What an ego trip that would be!
>
> > I have to find some good substitute for coffee. I hate tea and since I can't take gingseng, how will I ever wake up?
>
> Well... I hate to recommend a drug... But since we are SO much alike, you may benefit from Wellbutrin. I just don't know. And I am not convinced that the Wellbutrin is good for people with adrenal fatigue either. I am just not comfortable with recommending it, but if you looked into it yourself and find it worth a try...I did try Wellbutrin once (both capsule and pill form) and felt like I couldn't breathe on it. It was a strange reaction. I've tried lots of things but never had that feeling before. I may try it again. I was very bummed when I had to give it up because I felt that it had the potential to really help me.
> > Don't you wish you could force other people to experience this for just a little while so that they understand?
> >
> Hmmm... a shot of caffeine equal to four cups of coffee to understand anxiety/panic and the next day a shot of sleep meds and then force them to function as usual in spite of it??? The only difference is that after two days, they can go back to "normal", but we can't.I like your style. That would be a good way to show them the anxiety/panic and sleep problems but we'd also have to devise a way to show them what it's like to experience depression, helplessness, hopelessness, brain fog, inability to make a decision, adrenal fatigue, bizarre allergic reactions etc. etc. etc.
> > > > I'm hoping that this Perika (the most dopaminergic and stimulating of the St. John's Wort formulations) I started on recently and an adrenal fatigue program (still being devised) will give me the boost I need to start making much needed initiatives very soon. I'll keep you posted as to what works for me.
> >
> > So far this Perika is making me tired and nauseous. I hate having to take these things!!!! I'll be so disappointed if this doesn't work out.
>
> Sheesh! Who needs tired and nausious? Yuck.I'm so glad I'm going the natural route now so I don't have to deal with those horrible drug side effects (LOL). Actually, today I don't feel quite as nauseous though yesterday it tended to come in waves - not a steady thing. I made it worse by having a lot of coffee in the morning before eating solid food. That throws my blood sugar way off and always gives me problems. I meant to eat sooner but got carried away on the computer and once I started feeling sick, it was too late. (I'm being much better about it today I can tell you that.) I had a cook-out to attend yesterday but didn't end up going. I got into the car but ended up heading back to bed. My friend is probably mad at me. I haven't had the nerve to call her yet. Oh if they only understood... (I'm putting her first on the list for our forced understanding treatment.)
Here's something to read if you want a laugh. It's an old post I found in the archives of this Alternative Board. Someone did a good job of making fun of us.
In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 1:21:18Ame Sans Vie, your knowledge is dazzling. Herbs are the key. I experience great benefits from going out to my front yard and eating grass. I noticed Cletus, my beagle, doing it and figured why not give it a try. I watch him closely, animals have a keen sense of where the best sources are. He doesn't do it every day though. So I keep a quantity of prechewed grass frozen for those critical days. I think it is important not to wash off the ants or grit because Cletus doesn't. Natural substances are the way to go. Lately Cletus has been eating a lot of dried pigs ears. I suspect that the collagen and tannin content may be supporting nutritional deficiencies lacking in the modern diet. Boiling them over night makes them marvelously supple. Though I don't think you need to consume them. Drinking the water after it has cooled contains the essential extracts. For starters say five ears to the half gallon. You can build up from there. Drink it fresh. Prolonged refrigeration propagates iodine accumulation and unless you have a lot of activated charcoal on hand you know what that can lead to. I'm feeling better every day. I am anxious to see what Cletus starts eating next. The natural world has an embarrassment of mood elevating substances to teach us about. You are my inspiration, well you and Cletus.
Posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 15:15:13
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 8, 2004, at 13:39:35
If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
Posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 1:40:31
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying, posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 15:10:57
> > I take 500mg quercetin every day (almost). I usually only take 1g of vitamin C a day, but when the allergies are bad I usually take 2-3g. I really should take 2-3g every day since C is so important to the recovery of the adrenals. I take 400-600mg of a good form of magnesium a day - usually 400mg though. By the way, allergies go along with adrenal fatigue, and with the horrible adrenal exhaustion I had last spring, I suffered from the worst allergies of my life.
>
> Only 500 mg. of quercetin works that well? I'll definitely have to start taking it again.Well, it is a combination of things that helped with the allergies. Since I took vitamin C, quercetin and magnesium in unison, I honestly can't tell you that the quercetin alone was the key. And I don't know exactly what the optimum dosage is. (I did take Claritin also during the worst of it, so I obviously didn't find the total answer by natural means.
> My regimen includes mixed calcium/magnesium supplements that supply 400 mg. but I've been really bad about taking them since you have to take a minimum of 6 a day in order to get to 1000 mg. of calcium and 400 mg. of magnesium. (Funny but when I allow myself to take those little chocolate chews that taste like candy, I never have a problem filling my calcim requirement.)
If there was just one supplement I would recommend to people, it would be magnesium (with vitamin C being a close second). That's how strongly I feel about it. (But then I am no Larry.)
> > > > I am trying to get up the nerve to try some basic herbals like licorice. The herbals sound harmless, but I haven't always had good reactions to them so I am a little leary...
> > >
> > > I am also apprehensive about trying things. It's scary. You just don't know how you're going to react and I always imagine the worst. I worry that I'll go into anaphylactic shock from each new supplement or medicine that I try. (I used to make sure I was around people when I first tried something new just in case.) Hope I haven't made you more fearful of trying things.
> >
> > Nope. I am the same way.
>
> Do you go to the same extreme in thinking that you're going to go into shock the minute the pill goes down the hatch? I finally decided I didn't care if that happened - that i have to risk it because living the way I'm living just isn't worth it. That was a major turning point for me and I haven't looked back.It takes a lot of faith and prayer over something new, and even then it isn't "easy".
> > HA! Love your sense of humor!!!
>
> That's because it's a lot like yours...LOL I have a very dry sense of humor - most people are either offended by it or just don't get it. It's not a very endearing feature. Sigh... How fortunate we are that we found each other!!! LOL
> I read over on the Administration board that a Psycho-Babble 6th year anniversary party is being planned (for next year I think?) in Chicago. Wouldn't that be interesting? I'd love to meet the people I've been conversing with - esp. you and Larry. Larry would be treated like a rock star. What an ego trip that would be!Ha! I can see it now... "WELCOME PSYCHOS" on the Mariott marquis... I have this strange mental image of something very similar to a "Star Trek" convention...
As an aside, I have always wondered if somewhere out there, there is a group of graduate students reading our posts like they are observing lab rats... Hmmm... I guess only Dr. Bob knows for sure...
> I did try Wellbutrin once (both capsule and pill form) and felt like I couldn't breathe on it. It was a strange reaction. I've tried lots of things but never had that feeling before. I may try it again. I was very bummed when I had to give it up because I felt that it had the potential to really help me.It sure isn't for everybody. As a matter of fact, most people on this site seem to use Wellbutrin as a supplemental med with an SSRI. I think that I managed to get over the initial side effects fairly easily because the Lexapro had me SOOOOO down and it "softened the blow" of the anxiety of the Wellbutrin.
> I had a cook-out to attend yesterday but didn't end up going. I got into the car but ended up heading back to bed. My friend is probably mad at me. I haven't had the nerve to call her yet. Oh if they only understood... (I'm putting her first on the list for our forced understanding treatment.)I understand that so well. Others can not possibly understand what our lives are like. At my lowest, I used to envy people with something like cancer. First and foremost, the people I know who have been diagnosed with malignant cancer have a trememdous will to live. I always envied that. Depression seems to immediately wipe out that instinctive fight to live (at least for me). I even envied cancer patients who died because their suffering was over (sorry to be so morbid, but that was depression talking). Then, cancer is something that people seem to understand, unlike mental illness. No one is likely to go up to a cancer patient and say, "You don't really have cancer. It is all in your head. Just make up your mind to not have cancer and you won't have it." But people don't seem to think twice about saying similar things to a depressed person. And cancer isn't a taboo subject. (Hope I wasn't too heavy there. But I have really been through it the past 10 years.)
>
> Here's something to read if you want a laugh. It's an old post I found in the archives of this Alternative Board. Someone did a good job of making fun of us.
>
> In reply to Re: Ame, Valerian/Other Remedies/DIY Herbal Extracts » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on August 11, 2003, at 1:21:18
>
> Ame Sans Vie, your knowledge is dazzling. Herbs are the key. I experience great benefits from going out to my front yard and eating grass. I noticed Cletus, my beagle, doing it and figured why not give it a try. I watch him closely, animals have a keen sense of where the best sources are. He doesn't do it every day though. So I keep a quantity of prechewed grass frozen for those critical days. I think it is important not to wash off the ants or grit because Cletus doesn't. Natural substances are the way to go. Lately Cletus has been eating a lot of dried pigs ears. I suspect that the collagen and tannin content may be supporting nutritional deficiencies lacking in the modern diet. Boiling them over night makes them marvelously supple. Though I don't think you need to consume them. Drinking the water after it has cooled contains the essential extracts. For starters say five ears to the half gallon. You can build up from there. Drink it fresh. Prolonged refrigeration propagates iodine accumulation and unless you have a lot of activated charcoal on hand you know what that can lead to. I'm feeling better every day. I am anxious to see what Cletus starts eating next. The natural world has an embarrassment of mood elevating substances to teach us about. You are my inspiration, well you and Cletus.
>
LOL There were times that I would have been on all fours grazing on the lawn if I thought it would have helped even a little. I would have moo'ed like a cow too if it would have helped. But doing that while being on psychiatric drugs might bring the padded wagon with the men in white coats. =)Have a great week,
Simus
Posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 1:52:12
In reply to Re: another funny one » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 15:15:13
> If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
>
> In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
>
> I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
>
>
Wow! Larry did need a vacation! Almost makes me sorry I dropped in on his little getaway. (Sorry I didn't tell you sooner. I knew how jealous you would have gotten that I had Larry (well, yes, and his significant other) all to myself to talk biomedical talk until dawn. Sunrises in the Alps are sooooo beautiful!) So now you know...Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 4:51:18
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 1:40:31
> If there was just one supplement I would recommend to people, it would be magnesium (with vitamin C being a close second). That's how strongly I feel about it. (But then I am no Larry.)
Hmmmmmm... I wonder if I added another 400 mg. of magnesium, whether that would help me.
As for Larry, I was doing some research today on the net and found a discussion group that Larry was involved in. My first reaction was that he was cheating on us. How silly is that???? The post was from a couple of years ago in a forum that wasn't censored at all. For some reason a couple of the people were really attacking Larry and saying such horrible things to him. I can see why a moderator is needed on these boards.
> > > > > I am trying to get up the nerve to try some basic herbals like licorice. The herbals sound harmless, but I haven't always had good reactions to them so I am a little leary...Licorice is one of the first new things I'm planning on trying.
> LOL I have a very dry sense of humor - most people are either offended by it or just don't get it. It's not a very endearing feature. Sigh... How fortunate we are that we found each other!!! LOLSame here. I can offend sometimes when dealing with other people who don't get my sense of humor - but those people bore me to death anyway. I disagree with you - I think it can be a very endearing quality to those sharp enough to get it. I could be biased though.
>
> > I read over on the Administration board that a Psycho-Babble 6th year anniversary party is being planned (for next year I think?) in Chicago. Wouldn't that be interesting? I'd love to meet the people I've been conversing with - esp. you and Larry. Larry would be treated like a rock star. What an ego trip that would be!
>
> Ha! I can see it now... "WELCOME PSYCHOS" on the Mariott marquis... I have this strange mental image of something very similar to a "Star Trek" convention...I was also picturing a marquis saying something to that effect but I hadn't quite gotten the wording right yet. (BTW, remind me to bring my Spock Ears for the occassion.)
>
> As an aside, I have always wondered if somewhere out there, there is a group of graduate students reading our posts like they are observing lab rats... Hmmm... I guess only Dr. Bob knows for sure...Only Bob and the graduate students themselves. I imagine there has to be some others helping him. He can't possibly read all of these postings on all of the various boards all by himself day in and day out. Because of reading the viscious posts on that other board, I do have more respect for the job that they do. Still, it's creepy knowing that Big Brother is watching.
> > I did try Wellbutrin once (both capsule and pill form) and felt like I couldn't breathe on it. It was a strange reaction. I've tried lots of things but never had that feeling before. I may try it again. I was very bummed when I had to give it up because I felt that it had the potential to really help me.
>
> It sure isn't for everybody. As a matter of fact, most people on this site seem to use Wellbutrin as a supplemental med with an SSRI. I think that I managed to get over the initial side effects fairly easily because the Lexapro had me SOOOOO down and it "softened the blow" of the anxiety of the Wellbutrin.I could deal with the anxiety of it since I have so little of that now. It's the feeling that it was an effort to breathe that got to me. Call me crazy, but it's something I like to do without effort.
> > I had a cook-out to attend yesterday but didn't end up going. I got into the car but ended up heading back to bed. My friend is probably mad at me. I haven't had the nerve to call her yet. Oh if they only understood... (I'm putting her first on the list for our forced understanding treatment.)
>
> I understand that so well. Others can not possibly understand what our lives are like. At my lowest, I used to envy people with something like cancer. First and foremost, the people I know who have been diagnosed with malignant cancer have a trememdous will to live. I always envied that. Depression seems to immediately wipe out that instinctive fight to live (at least for me). I even envied cancer patients who died because their suffering was over (sorry to be so morbid, but that was depression talking). Then, cancer is something that people seem to understand, unlike mental illness. No one is likely to go up to a cancer patient and say, "You don't really have cancer. It is all in your head. Just make up your mind to not have cancer and you won't have it." But people don't seem to think twice about saying similar things to a depressed person. And cancer isn't a taboo subject. (Hope I wasn't too heavy there. But I have really been through it the past 10 years.)I know exactly what you mean by envying those with conditions that others understand. Then at least all of your energy could go to fighting the condition rather than fighting your friends and family. I've also thought about the fact that with those other horrible illnesses, at least they had the will to live.
So many people just can't (or don't want to) comprehend mental illness itself and there's no getting through to them. My brother-in-law told me during this last vacation that all I needed was short-term, medium-range and long-term goals. I didn't respond at all. I couldn't even find the energy to try to respond to that. And have I mentioned yet that "friend" of mine who used to scream at me at the top of her lungs? She has a very strong belief that anyone who doesn't work is useless. She won't even go out for an evening with another couple if the wife doesn't work. Needless to say, she just sees me as useless and lazy and she used to let me know it in no uncertain terms. Since we are also related it's hard to cut her out of my life completely but I did manage to have very little to do with her for a while. Now she tries to keep her mouth shut but you still know how she feels and what she is thinking.
> LOL There were times that I would have been on all fours grazing on the lawn if I thought it would have helped even a little. I would have moo'ed like a cow too if it would have helped. But doing that while being on psychiatric drugs might bring the padded wagon with the men in white coats. =)
I think that even if you did that without being on psychiatric drugs, the men in white coats would take you away!
Getting back to medications, I'm stopping the Perika St. John's Wort tonight. I can't bear the thought of taking it again. I've felt so drugged and awful from it and I'm spending so much time sleeping. I just can't afford to continue feeling this way and I am only on 1/3 of the dosage now. All of the things that are supposed to make me feel energized, including the small amount of Ritalin I took a little while back, make me feel so tired and I fall asleep. I wonder if this is all related to the adrenal fatigue and/or I possibly have ADD which can make you react paradoxically to stimulant types of medications.
Actually, one thing that didn't put me to sleep was the selegiline. I only took 5 mg. but it definitely felt stimulating. The other thing that felt slightly stimulating was the DLPA. They're supposed to be a good antidepressant when combined. I didn't want to try that now because of job hunting (the metabolites of the selegiline are amphetamines so I'd fail work related drug tests) but I'll never get a job if I don't get some antidepressant effect going. Selegiline is used by lots of health-conscious people as a life enhancement supplement because of its neuroprotective effect. I figure that if I have to take a drug test, I'll just tell them upfront that I take it. Of course it probably won't work for me either in which case it will be a moot point.
The selegiline is probably not good for the adrenal problems but it's like you with the Wellbutrin, you just can't afford to not take it now. That's one area I wish that the book had gone into more. I wish it listed medications to stay away from. Wish I could e-mail the author. Maybe I can find somethings out on the net. Oh, where is that selfish Larry when you need him? (LOL)
I'm really in feel sorry for myself mood now. I'm so tired of hearing about all of these things that work so well for other people and they do nothing for me or I can't tolerate them. Oh well, on to the next trial...
Have a great week too.
K
>
> Have a great week,
>
> Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 5:05:13
In reply to Re: another funny one » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 1:52:12
> > If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
> >
> > In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
> >
> > I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
> >
> >
> Wow! Larry did need a vacation! Almost makes me sorry I dropped in on his little getaway. (Sorry I didn't tell you sooner. I knew how jealous you would have gotten that I had Larry (well, yes, and his significant other) all to myself to talk biomedical talk until dawn. (Sunrises in the Alps are sooooo beautiful!) So now you know...
>
> Simus
>Why you traitor!!! And I thought you were a friend. I should have known you were up to something like this. Of course I'm jealous. Who could resist the idea of spending a vacation in the Swiss Alps discussing "biomedical talk until dawn" with a couple you've just barged in on? You really do know how to live. I have to give you that.
Actually, Larry didn't write the posting above. I cut off part of the top of it. It was written by some name I'd never seen here before in response to Ame Sans Vie who answered a posting by Larry. So not to worry, he's not losing it... at least he wasn't before you ruined his vacation in the Swiss Alps!
Posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 14:44:51
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 4:51:18
> > If there was just one supplement I would recommend to people, it would be magnesium (with vitamin C being a close second). That's how strongly I feel about it. (But then I am no Larry.)
>
> Hmmmmmm... I wonder if I added another 400 mg. of magnesium, whether that would help me.I'm not sure if more is better. However, there are many forms of magnesium, and some are better than others.
> As for Larry, I was doing some research today on the net and found a discussion group that Larry was involved in. My first reaction was that he was cheating on us. How silly is that???? The post was from a couple of years ago in a forum that wasn't censored at all. For some reason a couple of the people were really attacking Larry and saying such horrible things to him. I can see why a moderator is needed on these boards.Why in the world people would attack those trying to help them is beyond me...
> Licorice is one of the first new things I'm planning on trying.
I read your post yesterday (?) on licorice. I think I should just go for it. I have actually had a bottle of it for a couple of years. These things actually do expire before I get the courage to try them. LOL
> > > I did try Wellbutrin once (both capsule and pill form) and felt like I couldn't breathe on it. It was a strange reaction. I've tried lots of things but never had that feeling before. I may try it again. I was very bummed when I had to give it up because I felt that it had the potential to really help me.
> >
> > It sure isn't for everybody. As a matter of fact, most people on this site seem to use Wellbutrin as a supplemental med with an SSRI. I think that I managed to get over the initial side effects fairly easily because the Lexapro had me SOOOOO down and it "softened the blow" of the anxiety of the Wellbutrin.
>
> I could deal with the anxiety of it since I have so little of that now. It's the feeling that it was an effort to breathe that got to me. Call me crazy, but it's something I like to do without effort.LOL I was assuming that was associated with the anxiety. That was how I used to feel during anxiety/panic attacks. I would "forget" to breath (find myself holding my breath). I didn't realize it until I started to get dizzy, and then I would say, "breathe in...breathe out..."
> So many people just can't (or don't want to) comprehend mental illness itself and there's no getting through to them. My brother-in-law told me during this last vacation that all I needed was short-term, medium-range and long-term goals.
HA!!! It's SO simple! The answer was right there in front of you all the time and you just couldn't see it. Aren't we lucky to have people around us with all the answers?
> And have I mentioned yet that "friend" of mine who used to scream at me at the top of her lungs?
As one of my true friends used to say, "With a friend like that, who needs an enema?" =)
> She has a very strong belief that anyone who doesn't work is useless. She won't even go out for an evening with another couple if the wife doesn't work. Needless to say, she just sees me as useless and lazy and she used to let me know it in no uncertain terms. Since we are also related it's hard to cut her out of my life completely but I did manage to have very little to do with her for a while. Now she tries to keep her mouth shut but you still know how she feels and what she is thinking.
Wow. I am at a loss. Relative or not, who needs that? My 15 year old daughter just got a T-shirt
that cracked me up. It said, "Everyone has the right to be stupid, but you are abusing the privelege."
> Getting back to medications, I'm stopping the Perika St. John's Wort tonight. I can't bear the thought of taking it again. I've felt so drugged and awful from it and I'm spending so much time sleeping. I just can't afford to continue feeling this way and I am only on 1/3 of the dosage now. All of the things that are supposed to make me feel energized, including the small amount of Ritalin I took a little while back, make me feel so tired and I fall asleep. I wonder if this is all related to the adrenal fatigue and/or I possibly have ADD which can make you react paradoxically to stimulant types of medications.Where is Larry when we need him? I know the feeling, but I have no answers for you. I know that SSRIs weren't the best meds for me, and since St. John's Wort affects serotonin (I think), I am not sure it would be the best choice for me either. I would think that after you gave it a fair chance and you still feel worse than before you started it, it is reasonable to stop taking it.
> Actually, one thing that didn't put me to sleep was the selegiline. I only took 5 mg. but it definitely felt stimulating. The other thing that felt slightly stimulating was the DLPA. They're supposed to be a good antidepressant when combined. I didn't want to try that now because of job hunting (the metabolites of the selegiline are amphetamines so I'd fail work related drug tests) but I'll never get a job if I don't get some antidepressant effect going. Selegiline is used by lots of health-conscious people as a life enhancement supplement because of its neuroprotective effect. I figure that if I have to take a drug test, I'll just tell them upfront that I take it. Of course it probably won't work for me either in which case it will be a moot point.First and foremost, you have to get well. If you do come to a point that you need a drug screening for a new job, I would think that being upfront with them and telling them that you are taking herbal supplements that may or may not cause you to test positive on a drug screening would be the best way to handle it. But you have to keep looking for help...
>
> The selegiline is probably not good for the adrenal problems but it's like you with the Wellbutrin, you just can't afford to not take it now. That's one area I wish that the book had gone into more. I wish it listed medications to stay away from. Wish I could e-mail the author. Maybe I can find somethings out on the net.I bet a persistent person could find the author and get an answer...
> Oh, where is that selfish Larry when you need him? (LOL)
Sipping martinis in front of the fireplace (it's chilly in the Alps).
> I'm really in feel sorry for myself mood now. I'm so tired of hearing about all of these things that work so well for other people and they do nothing for me or I can't tolerate them. Oh well, on to the next trial...You just have to keep fighting!!! I was where you are now such a short time ago and I saw NO hope. But here I am now! Not 100%, but at least I am in the land of the living.
Don't you dare give up,
Simus
Posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 14:50:20
In reply to Re: another funny one » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 5:05:13
> > > If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
> > >
> > > In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
> > >
> > > I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
> > >
> > >
> > Wow! Larry did need a vacation! Almost makes me sorry I dropped in on his little getaway. (Sorry I didn't tell you sooner. I knew how jealous you would have gotten that I had Larry (well, yes, and his significant other) all to myself to talk biomedical talk until dawn. (Sunrises in the Alps are sooooo beautiful!) So now you know...
> >
> > Simus
> >
>
> Why you traitor!!! And I thought you were a friend. I should have known you were up to something like this. Of course I'm jealous. Who could resist the idea of spending a vacation in the Swiss Alps discussing "biomedical talk until dawn" with a couple you've just barged in on? You really do know how to live. I have to give you that.
>
> Actually, Larry didn't write the posting above. I cut off part of the top of it. It was written by some name I'd never seen here before in response to Ame Sans Vie who answered a posting by Larry. So not to worry, he's not losing it... at least he wasn't before you ruined his vacation in the Swiss Alps!
Hmmm... I thought the reason Larry was turning blue and shaking was because of the cold. Do you think it could have been because he was angry with me???
Posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 19:34:05
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 14:44:51
> > > If there was just one supplement I would recommend to people, it would be magnesium (with vitamin C being a close second). That's how strongly I feel about it. (But then I am no Larry.)
What do you think magnesium has done for you? And what are the better forms?
>> > As for Larry, I was doing some research today on the net and found a discussion group that Larry was involved in. My first reaction was that he was cheating on us. How silly is that???? The post was from a couple of years ago in a forum that wasn't censored at all. For some reason a couple of the people were really attacking Larry and saying such horrible things to him. I can see why a moderator is needed on these boards.
>
> Why in the world people would attack those trying to help them is beyond me...I think it was a case of too many roosters in the hen house. These two guys who were attacking him thought that they were the experts on everything and seemed to resent Larry. I could be wrong as I didn't read all of the previous posts that led up the angry words. That was just my impression from what I had seen.
>
> > Licorice is one of the first new things I'm planning on trying.
>
> I read your post yesterday (?) on licorice. I think I should just go for it. I have actually had a bottle of it for a couple of years. These things actually do expire before I get the courage to try them. LOLDo you ever try a tiny bit at a time and then keep increasing the dosage? I bought one of those pill cutters at the drugstore and it has been a huge help.
>
> > > > I did try Wellbutrin once (both capsule and pill form) and felt like I couldn't breathe on it. It was a strange reaction. I've tried lots of things but never had that feeling before. I may try it again. I was very bummed when I had to give it up because I felt that it had the potential to really help me.
> > >
> > > It sure isn't for everybody. As a matter of fact, most people on this site seem to use Wellbutrin as a supplemental med with an SSRI. I think that I managed to get over the initial side effects fairly easily because the Lexapro had me SOOOOO down and it "softened the blow" of the anxiety of the Wellbutrin.So at least the Lexapro had it's value. I think I told you that I tried Celexa and had a horrible experience on it. Yuuuucccckkkkkk. Kind of like the Perika only with irregular heartbeats added on. Just horrible.
> >
> > I could deal with the anxiety of it since I have so little of that now. It's the feeling that it was an effort to breathe that got to me. Call me crazy, but it's something I like to do without effort.
>
> LOL I was assuming that was associated with the anxiety. That was how I used to feel during anxiety/panic attacks. I would "forget" to breath (find myself holding my breath). I didn't realize it until I started to get dizzy, and then I would say, "breathe in...breathe out..."Panic attacks are the worst. So glad I haven't had any of those in ages. I was worried that hotflashes might cause them because sensations going on in the body that you don't feel you have control over are the starting point for panic attacks. So far that hasn't happened but that's probably because my adrenals couldn't muster that kind of response now anyway.
>
> > So many people just can't (or don't want to) comprehend mental illness itself and there's no getting through to them. My brother-in-law told me during this last vacation that all I needed was short-term, medium-range and long-term goals.
>
> HA!!! It's SO simple! The answer was right there in front of you all the time and you just couldn't see it. Aren't we lucky to have people around us with all the answers?Why some of us just can't see what's right there in front of us is beyond me...
> > And have I mentioned yet that "friend" of mine who used to scream at me at the top of her lungs?
>
> As one of my true friends used to say, "With a friend like that, who needs an enema?" =)Good one. I'll have to remember that.
> > She has a very strong belief that anyone who doesn't work is useless. She won't even go out for an evening with another couple if the wife doesn't work. Needless to say, she just sees me as useless and lazy and she used to let me know it in no uncertain terms. Since we are also related it's hard to cut her out of my life completely but I did manage to have very little to do with her for a while. Now she tries to keep her mouth shut but you still know how she feels and what she is thinking.
>
> Wow. I am at a loss. Relative or not, who needs that? My 15 year old daughter just got a T-shirt that cracked me up. It said, "Everyone has the right to be stupid, but you are abusing the privelege."That's another great one. I'll definitely remember that one as well.
> > Getting back to medications, I'm stopping the Perika St. John's Wort tonight. I can't bear the thought of taking it again. I've felt so drugged and awful from it and I'm spending so much time sleeping. I just can't afford to continue feeling this way and I am only on 1/3 of the dosage now. All of the things that are supposed to make me feel energized, including the small amount of Ritalin I took a little while back, make me feel so tired and I fall asleep. I wonder if this is all related to the adrenal fatigue and/or I possibly have ADD which can make you react paradoxically to stimulant types of medications.
>
> Where is Larry when we need him? I know the feeling, but I have no answers for you. I know that SSRIs weren't the best meds for me, and since St. John's Wort affects serotonin (I think), I am not sure it would be the best choice for me either. I would think that after you gave it a fair chance and you still feel worse than before you started it, it is reasonable to stop taking it.
>Actually, St. John's Wort effects many things but is primarily serotonergic - except for Perika. Perika is made in Germany and is supposed to be more dopaminergic and activating than the other brands. That's why I chose to try it. I read on the board here and at SWJinfo.org that many people couldn't use it because they found it too stimulating. My luck I'm grogged out on it like I've taken a bottle of benzos! I'm so glad I didn't take it last night.
> > Actually, one thing that didn't put me to sleep was the selegiline. I only took 5 mg. but it definitely felt stimulating. The other thing that felt slightly stimulating was the DLPA. They're supposed to be a good antidepressant when combined. I didn't want to try that now because of job hunting (the metabolites of the selegiline are amphetamines so I'd fail work related drug tests) but I'll never get a job if I don't get some antidepressant effect going. Selegiline is used by lots of health-conscious people as a life enhancement supplement because of its neuroprotective effect. I figure that if I have to take a drug test, I'll just tell them upfront that I take it. Of course it probably won't work for me either in which case it will be a moot point.
>
> First and foremost, you have to get well. If you do come to a point that you need a drug screening for a new job, I would think that being upfront with them and telling them that you are taking herbal supplements that may or may not cause you to test positive on a drug screening would be the best way to handle it. But you have to keep looking for help...
> >That's how I feel about it too now. The only problem is that selegiline is a drug, not an herbal supplement. I just read on the main board that if you tell the drug testers that you're taking it, then you have to produce a prescription and then they will do another test to differentiate the selegiline from street amphetamines. I will have to find a doctor willing to prescribe it.
> > The selegiline is probably not good for the adrenal problems but it's like you with the Wellbutrin, you just can't afford to not take it now. That's one area I wish that the book had gone into more. I wish it listed medications to stay away from. Wish I could e-mail the author. Maybe I can find somethings out on the net.
>
> I bet a persistent person could find the author and get an answer...I think I'm going to try it anyway. You're still getting well even though you are taking the Wellbutrin. It's only a very small amount of selegiline and I'd take it with DLPA (theoretically 40% of the DLPA should convert to tyrosine which is great to take for the adrenals) so I think it's well worth the slight risk.
> > Oh, where is that selfish Larry when you need him? (LOL)
> Sipping martinis in front of the fireplace (it's chilly in the Alps).
Then why were you all spending so much time in the hottub?
> > I'm really in feel sorry for myself mood now. I'm so tired of hearing about all of these things that work so well for other people and they do nothing for me or I can't tolerate them. Oh well, on to the next trial...
>
> You just have to keep fighting!!! I was where you are now such a short time ago and I saw NO hope. But here I am now! Not 100%, but at least I am in the land of the living.How long ago did you start on Wellbutrin? Did the antidpressant effect hit you fairly quickly or did you have to wait the usual 4 weeks?
> Don't you dare give up,
>
> SimusThanks for the pep talk. Fortunately (or should I say serendipitously?) I read some posts on the main board yesterday about selegiline and how it has worked for those that nothing else seems to work for. Someone named Ktemene answered another post of mine and she just happened to include a lot of really uplifting links for me to check out. It was just what I needed. So I have a strong feeling that this is what I'm supposed to try now. Also, knowing that I can tolerate it after these last few trials, is another huge plus that is keeping me hopeful. And if this doesn't work out, it's on to Parnate. I'd also have to see a doctor for that one but hopefully it would be worth it.
Thanks again,
KP.S. I laughed so much last night at the "WELCOME PSYCHOS" and the "talking biomedical talk until dawn" with Larry and his better half. I'd keep thinking of it and then crack up all over again. My two cats were staring at me. They were convinced that this time I'd finally gone over that proverbial edge.
Posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 19:37:42
In reply to Re: another funny one » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 9, 2004, at 14:50:20
> > > > If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
> > > >
> > > > In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
> > > >
> > > > I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Wow! Larry did need a vacation! Almost makes me sorry I dropped in on his little getaway. (Sorry I didn't tell you sooner. I knew how jealous you would have gotten that I had Larry (well, yes, and his significant other) all to myself to talk biomedical talk until dawn. (Sunrises in the Alps are sooooo beautiful!) So now you know...
> > >
> > > Simus
> > >
> >
> > Why you traitor!!! And I thought you were a friend. I should have known you were up to something like this. Of course I'm jealous. Who could resist the idea of spending a vacation in the Swiss Alps discussing "biomedical talk until dawn" with a couple you've just barged in on? You really do know how to live. I have to give you that.
> >
> > Actually, Larry didn't write the posting above. I cut off part of the top of it. It was written by some name I'd never seen here before in response to Ame Sans Vie who answered a posting by Larry. So not to worry, he's not losing it... at least he wasn't before you ruined his vacation in the Swiss Alps!
>
> Hmmm... I thought the reason Larry was turning blue and shaking was because of the cold. Do you think it could have been because he was angry with me???
>
>I can see that nothing escapes you - but maybe when he swore at you and threw his drink at you, you might have picked up on it earlier...
Posted by Simus on August 10, 2004, at 0:23:09
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 19:34:05
> What do you think magnesium has done for you? And what are the better forms?
This goes back a few years, so I have to stretch my memory a little... I bought one of Maureen Solomon's books on natural healing, and almost everything that I had a problem with she recommended magnesium for. I had NEVER taken a magnesium supplement up to that point, and I was probably in my late 30's at the time. So you have to consider that there may have been a serious magnesium deficiency in my body. I had allergies to the point of weekly shots, two inhalents and a nasal spray and over-the-counter pills. My lungs wheezed when I breathed. I had chronic bronchitis and sinus infections. All of that turned around when I started taking magnesium. The first day I noticed that my lungs were clearer and it was easier to breathe. Soon I was off of all meds, and I no longer went in for the shots. Last winter when I was so sick from the psychiatric meds, I got real lax on the supplements. Then in the spring, the allergies returned for the first time in years. I am back on magnesium now (with vit C and quercetin) and off of the allergy meds. I'm thinking there were noticable mental benefits too, for instance with anxiety. It has been so long ago and I have been through so much since then with the drugs - I am so sorry that I just don't remember. That didn't stand out as much as the other results though. As far as the best form of magnesium... There are several forms, and I don't know why and what is best for what. I have a magnesium chelate that seems to work well, but then others may too...
> >> > As for Larry, I was doing some research today on the net and found a discussion group that Larry was involved in. My first reaction was that he was cheating on us. How silly is that???? The post was from a couple of years ago in a forum that wasn't censored at all. For some reason a couple of the people were really attacking Larry and saying such horrible things to him. I can see why a moderator is needed on these boards.
> >
> > Why in the world people would attack those trying to help them is beyond me...
>
> I think it was a case of too many roosters in the hen house. These two guys who were attacking him thought that they were the experts on everything and seemed to resent Larry. I could be wrong as I didn't read all of the previous posts that led up the angry words. That was just my impression from what I had seen.
>
Their loss is our gain.
> >
> > > Licorice is one of the first new things I'm planning on trying.
> >
> > I read your post yesterday (?) on licorice. I think I should just go for it. I have actually had a bottle of it for a couple of years. These things actually do expire before I get the courage to try them. LOL
>
> Do you ever try a tiny bit at a time and then keep increasing the dosage? I bought one of those pill cutters at the drugstore and it has been a huge help.I think the licorice I have is in a gelatin capsule and can't be broken or cut. I believe I bought it originally to raise my low blood pressure, but then I went on a med that raised my blood pressure as a side effect so I just set the licorice aside. There is a story behind every supplement I own, and I have a whole cupboard full of them. I wish I had a whole brain full of memories as to why I bought them in the first place... But I shouldn't complain. My memory has improved greatly and is still improving. (I had a real hard time with memory loss on Lexapro.) Oh, wasn't it you that I told my "Flowers for Algernon" story to? That seems so long ago now...
> >
> > > > > I did try Wellbutrin once (both capsule and pill form) and felt like I couldn't breathe on it. It was a strange reaction. I've tried lots of things but never had that feeling before. I may try it again. I was very bummed when I had to give it up because I felt that it had the potential to really help me.
> > > >
> > > > It sure isn't for everybody. As a matter of fact, most people on this site seem to use Wellbutrin as a supplemental med with an SSRI. I think that I managed to get over the initial side effects fairly easily because the Lexapro had me SOOOOO down and it "softened the blow" of the anxiety of the Wellbutrin.
>
> So at least the Lexapro had it's value. I think I told you that I tried Celexa and had a horrible experience on it. Yuuuucccckkkkkk. Kind of like the Perika only with irregular heartbeats added on. Just horrible.I hear ya.
> > > I could deal with the anxiety of it since I have so little of that now. It's the feeling that it was an effort to breathe that got to me. Call me crazy, but it's something I like to do without effort.
> >
> > LOL I was assuming that was associated with the anxiety. That was how I used to feel during anxiety/panic attacks. I would "forget" to breath (find myself holding my breath). I didn't realize it until I started to get dizzy, and then I would say, "breathe in...breathe out..."
>
> Panic attacks are the worst. So glad I haven't had any of those in ages. I was worried that hotflashes might cause them because sensations going on in the body that you don't feel you have control over are the starting point for panic attacks. So far that hasn't happened but that's probably because my adrenals couldn't muster that kind of response now anyway.Oh, another side effect of Lexapro... Hormones all over the map... I thought it was making me menopausal at 43. My periods are just now straightening out, and I have been off of it for 7 months.
How are you doing after stopping the Perika?
> > > Actually, one thing that didn't put me to sleep was the selegiline. I only took 5 mg. but it definitely felt stimulating. The other thing that felt slightly stimulating was the DLPA. They're supposed to be a good antidepressant when combined. I didn't want to try that now because of job hunting (the metabolites of the selegiline are amphetamines so I'd fail work related drug tests) but I'll never get a job if I don't get some antidepressant effect going. Selegiline is used by lots of health-conscious people as a life enhancement supplement because of its neuroprotective effect. I figure that if I have to take a drug test, I'll just tell them upfront that I take it. Of course it probably won't work for me either in which case it will be a moot point.
> >
> > First and foremost, you have to get well. If you do come to a point that you need a drug screening for a new job, I would think that being upfront with them and telling them that you are taking herbal supplements that may or may not cause you to test positive on a drug screening would be the best way to handle it. But you have to keep looking for help...
> > >
>
> That's how I feel about it too now. The only problem is that selegiline is a drug, not an herbal supplement. I just read on the main board that if you tell the drug testers that you're taking it, then you have to produce a prescription and then they will do another test to differentiate the selegiline from street amphetamines. I will have to find a doctor willing to prescribe it.Ohhhhhh... That was a name I had never heard of and I just assumed it was herbal.
> > > The selegiline is probably not good for the adrenal problems but it's like you with the Wellbutrin, you just can't afford to not take it now. That's one area I wish that the book had gone into more. I wish it listed medications to stay away from. Wish I could e-mail the author. Maybe I can find somethings out on the net.
> >
> > I bet a persistent person could find the author and get an answer...
>
> I think I'm going to try it anyway. You're still getting well even though you are taking the Wellbutrin. It's only a very small amount of selegiline and I'd take it with DLPA (theoretically 40% of the DLPA should convert to tyrosine which is great to take for the adrenals) so I think it's well worth the slight risk.
>
> > > Oh, where is that selfish Larry when you need him? (LOL)
>
> > Sipping martinis in front of the fireplace (it's chilly in the Alps).
>
> Then why were you all spending so much time in the hottub?Did he tell you EVERYTHING???
> > > I'm really in feel sorry for myself mood now. I'm so tired of hearing about all of these things that work so well for other people and they do nothing for me or I can't tolerate them. Oh well, on to the next trial...
> >
> > You just have to keep fighting!!! I was where you are now such a short time ago and I saw NO hope. But here I am now! Not 100%, but at least I am in the land of the living.
>
> How long ago did you start on Wellbutrin? Did the antidpressant effect hit you fairly quickly or did you have to wait the usual 4 weeks?I started it in February, I believe. My doctor took me off of 30mg Lexapro and put me on 150mg Wellbutrin (standard dose is 300mg) on the same day. No decrease in the Lex at all, just cold turkey. The first day I felt GREAT!!! (Remember that "great" is relative to how I felt the day before.) It was the first time in months that I felt functional. But I only slept 2 hours the first night - in two one-hour shifts. I think I got 3 hours of sleep the second night. I was going a little nuts from lack of sleep, but I was "alive" again! Within a few days I was sleeping 7-8 hours a night. It was broken up into 3 segments at first, then two, then the occasional 7-8 hours straight. The sleep thing is still an obstacle, but it is sooooo good to "feel" something other than numbness again. (By the way, this is the med change that sent my adrenals into exhaustion mode.)
>
> > Don't you dare give up,
> >
> > Simus
>
> Thanks for the pep talk. Fortunately (or should I say serendipitously?) I read some posts on the main board yesterday about selegiline and how it has worked for those that nothing else seems to work for. Someone named Ktemene answered another post of mine and she just happened to include a lot of really uplifting links for me to check out. It was just what I needed. So I have a strong feeling that this is what I'm supposed to try now. Also, knowing that I can tolerate it after these last few trials, is another huge plus that is keeping me hopeful. And if this doesn't work out, it's on to Parnate. I'd also have to see a doctor for that one but hopefully it would be worth it.Can't lose hope, or all will be lost...
>
> Thanks again,
> K
>
> P.S. I laughed so much last night at the "WELCOME PSYCHOS" and the "talking biomedical talk until dawn" with Larry and his better half. I'd keep thinking of it and then crack up all over again. My two cats were staring at me. They were convinced that this time I'd finally gone over that proverbial edge."WELCOME BABBLERS" just wouldn't pack the same punch... Humor is what kept me sane (?) over the years. By the way, you wrote a lot of things that even though I didn't respond, I got a good chuckle out of. Like, "Why some of us just can't see what's right there in front of us is beyond me...". Priceless!!!
Here's hoping that we make it until Larry returns...
Simus
Posted by Simus on August 10, 2004, at 0:34:16
In reply to Re: another funny one » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 9, 2004, at 19:37:42
> > > > > If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
> > > > >
> > > > > In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
> > > > >
> > > > > I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Wow! Larry did need a vacation! Almost makes me sorry I dropped in on his little getaway. (Sorry I didn't tell you sooner. I knew how jealous you would have gotten that I had Larry (well, yes, and his significant other) all to myself to talk biomedical talk until dawn. (Sunrises in the Alps are sooooo beautiful!) So now you know...
> > > >
> > > > Simus
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why you traitor!!! And I thought you were a friend. I should have known you were up to something like this. Of course I'm jealous. Who could resist the idea of spending a vacation in the Swiss Alps discussing "biomedical talk until dawn" with a couple you've just barged in on? You really do know how to live. I have to give you that.
> > >
> > > Actually, Larry didn't write the posting above. I cut off part of the top of it. It was written by some name I'd never seen here before in response to Ame Sans Vie who answered a posting by Larry. So not to worry, he's not losing it... at least he wasn't before you ruined his vacation in the Swiss Alps!
> >
> > Hmmm... I thought the reason Larry was turning blue and shaking was because of the cold. Do you think it could have been because he was angry with me???
> >
> >
>
> I can see that nothing escapes you - but maybe when he swore at you and threw his drink at you, you might have picked up on it earlier...
>
Yes, but in all fairness he first muttered something like, "I wanted it shaken, not stirred!", in his British accent of course, before he flung the martini glass. After all, he is Hoover...Larry Hoover! I just figured he was tempermental so I didn't take it personally.
Posted by KaraS on August 10, 2004, at 9:55:31
In reply to Re: another funny one » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 10, 2004, at 0:34:16
> > > > > > If you liked the Cletus posting, here's another funny one:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In reply to Re: Bluebonnet supplement » Ame Sans Vie, posted by Larry Hoover on August 4, 2003, at 9:40:44
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I had a blood titer test come back with high levels of mercury. I found that by eating half a tube of Tom's natural toothpaste every day for six months I was able to lower my concentrations by 18.352 percent. Also I found scuba diving at a depth of 65 feet or deeper seemed to accelerate the process. Especially if I smoked a little catnip before each dive. I think the compression of the water and the increased oxygen exchange at the blood-brain barrier enhanced covalent heavy metal bonding with the platelets concentrating the detoxification. On the days when I did that however I had to consume a whole tube.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Wow! Larry did need a vacation! Almost makes me sorry I dropped in on his little getaway. (Sorry I didn't tell you sooner. I knew how jealous you would have gotten that I had Larry (well, yes, and his significant other) all to myself to talk biomedical talk until dawn. (Sunrises in the Alps are sooooo beautiful!) So now you know...
> > > > >
> > > > > Simus
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why you traitor!!! And I thought you were a friend. I should have known you were up to something like this. Of course I'm jealous. Who could resist the idea of spending a vacation in the Swiss Alps discussing "biomedical talk until dawn" with a couple you've just barged in on? You really do know how to live. I have to give you that.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, Larry didn't write the posting above. I cut off part of the top of it. It was written by some name I'd never seen here before in response to Ame Sans Vie who answered a posting by Larry. So not to worry, he's not losing it... at least he wasn't before you ruined his vacation in the Swiss Alps!
> > >
> > > Hmmm... I thought the reason Larry was turning blue and shaking was because of the cold. Do you think it could have been because he was angry with me???
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I can see that nothing escapes you - but maybe when he swore at you and threw his drink at you, you might have picked up on it earlier...
> >
> Yes, but in all fairness he first muttered something like, "I wanted it shaken, not stirred!", in his British accent of course, before he flung the martini glass. After all, he is Hoover...Larry Hoover! I just figured he was tempermental so I didn't take it personally.
>I can definitely see how you could have missed that signal then! (LOL) (Unbelievable that we're still milking this one.) Wonder if Larry has read any or all of these...
I'm working today and the next couple of days so I'll get back to you when I can on the previous message.
Posted by robot on August 10, 2004, at 21:41:18
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog?, posted by KaraS on July 18, 2004, at 16:21:41
I would like to know your opinions about phenylalanine. My doctor said its not good to take, and Ive read that it promotes nerve cell death (and some say cancer, but that actually worries me less).
I have taken the supplements before, without much result. ONe time, however, I took 500 mg (without having taken it for quite awhile) and I had a weird anxiety that lasted through the next day. I felt very irritable and confused.
Since then I have tried Spirulina powder. It seemed to stimulate me a little, but I discovered that it makes me even more mentally fuzzy than normal. Could this be the phenylalanine content? If not, what could it be? (Ive been on Lexapro 20 mg during this time.)
I would like to try phenyl again sometime but I want to know Im not risking something that could make my problems worse.
thanks guys
Posted by KaraS on August 10, 2004, at 23:51:11
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? Phenylalanine, posted by robot on August 10, 2004, at 21:41:18
> I would like to know your opinions about phenylalanine. My doctor said its not good to take, and Ive read that it promotes nerve cell death (and some say cancer, but that actually worries me less).
> I have taken the supplements before, without much result. ONe time, however, I took 500 mg (without having taken it for quite awhile) and I had a weird anxiety that lasted through the next day. I felt very irritable and confused.
> Since then I have tried Spirulina powder. It seemed to stimulate me a little, but I discovered that it makes me even more mentally fuzzy than normal. Could this be the phenylalanine content? If not, what could it be? (Ive been on Lexapro 20 mg during this time.)
> I would like to try phenyl again sometime but I want to know Im not risking something that could make my problems worse.
> thanks guys
I have never heard any of that about phenylalanine. I'd be interested in seeing some articles backing up those claims. I'm planning on taking it myself (the DLPA version along with a small amount of selegiline) soon. It's just an amino acid, a component of the protein we eat every day. A lot of the natural health gurus recommend it for depression including Dr. Andrew Weill, Dr. Michael Murray, ND and Dr. Priscilla Slagle.http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cda.php?command=TodayQA&pt=Question&questionId=3499
(Within this article linked below on Parkinsons Dr. Murray mentions phenylalanine to help with mood.)
http://www.doctormurray.com/Qarchive/parkinsons.htm
You can also read about it on Dr. Slagle's website.
The wired feeling you got when you tried it may have been from the PEA (phenylethylamine). l-phenylalanine metabolizes into l-tyrosine and PEA. PEA is very stimulating. You could take d-phenylalanine to prevent that wired feeling or you could just take l-tyrosine. These amino acids don't work for everyone so I can't guarantee anything. I didn't have any success with l-tyrosine myself and I haven't tried phenylalanine at a high enough dosage yet to judge it. I personally feel that they're very safe though.
I don't know anything about the actual content of Spirulina so I couldn't comment on that.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.