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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 21, 2008, at 11:41:01
In reply to an imbalance..., posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2008, at 11:36:49
Thanks for pointing that out. I am bereft.
Posted by Bobby on December 21, 2008, at 11:53:41
In reply to DNP to each other.....can't I request that? :-), posted by BayLeaf on December 21, 2008, at 11:00:30
on my part--as I'm not sure where this all started ---even what it's about. I have love for you all.
Posted by Deputy Racer on December 21, 2008, at 12:29:40
In reply to I'm curious about something » Partlycloudy, posted by Racer on December 21, 2008, at 9:20:39
>
> I wouldn't comment about the content of your post even if I could do so within the site guidelines.
>I can see that this phrasing was open to interpretations other than the one I had in mind.
Right now, I'm feeling pretty defenseless. I had hoped that I could express to PC that I hoped her current pain would pass soon. That apparently wasn't possible for me to do right now. Instead, I seem to have put my foot in it quite badly.
Nonetheless, we enforce rules here based on overt behavior, not on intention. Therefore, I will record this as an official administrative action against myself.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by seldomseen on December 21, 2008, at 12:43:34
In reply to an imbalance..., posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2008, at 11:36:49
"Looking back at these exchanges, I think the fact that Partly Cloudy trusted the boards enough to express in such a real way how difficult a time she was having as she was beginning to uncover memories of childhood abuse gives all of us here an implicit mandate to help her as she goes through all of the pain involved in working through the suffering of her past."
*** I hear what you are saying, however, I do not think there is an implicit mandate to help. I come to babble for support, and to give support as I am able and as I choose. IMO the only mandate that any babbler has is to be civil.***
"It was distressing to learn that a poster had caused further pain in a private email."
***If it was a babblemail, then it is subject to the same civility guidelines as if it were a post. If it was an email that was not babble affiliated, then it is not under the protection of the babble rules. Also, the content of such emails shouldn't be revealed unless both parties agree.***
"When Racer, as Deputy, reminded her not to make remarks which could lead others to feel put down, the reminder, while correct, did not take into context those two important things- PC's present emotional struggles, which she has courageously shared with us all, and the fact that another Babbler had apparently caused her distress. If the PCB had contained an acknowledgement of these two important factors, it would have come across as empathic and caring-as well as politically correct."
***Well, we've certainly tinkered with the wording of PBS and PBCs in the past. Perhaps this is something that should be re-visited. I think babble should always be open to ways to potentially mitigate hurt or misunderstanding.***
"I can't help but notice that this is the second time in recent days that a poster who has turned to Babble in times of severe emotional distress has felt hurt by the way the guidelines were applied."
***It's always upsetting (at least to me) when someone feels hurt on babble for any reason. I've certainly read enough deputies' responses to this hurt to know that the guidelines are not applied with the intent to hurt.
I mean it's not like their thinking "wow that seldomseen is really down and acting up, let's get her!"
I've been on this site for many many years now. and it is just outside of any understanding I have of it to think that way.***Seldom
Posted by fayeroe on December 21, 2008, at 12:47:25
In reply to Please be civil » Racer, posted by Deputy Racer on December 21, 2008, at 12:29:40
"I can see that this phrasing was open to
interpretations other than the one I had in mind."I feel really sad that the eyes are faster than the mind . I hope that this isn't going to be happening again.
:-(
{{{{{Pc}}}}}
Posted by muffled on December 21, 2008, at 13:40:04
In reply to Part II, posted by BayLeaf on December 21, 2008, at 11:14:11
Hey Bay, love the video :-) Thanks.
Also FWIW, this is a hard time of year at best.
I hope all can chill.
We all hurt, for diff reasons.
But I reckon we all agree that we don't like it, and we don't try to intentionally hurt others knowing that.
We's just human.
Lets all just chill.
WTF eh, lifes to short.
We all good people, jus we alls got our 'moments'.
S'ok.
Lets find some more cool youtubes and stuff cuz we stuck in the snow. Hell we stuck in the sad. Lets try and feel good.
I gonna start a thread on social.Thanks guys, yous all cool. I know that.
((((babblers....ALLA ya))))))
M
Posted by fayeroe on December 21, 2008, at 14:00:24
In reply to an imbalance..., posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2008, at 11:36:49
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 21, 2008, at 14:10:20
In reply to Re: Part II, posted by muffled on December 21, 2008, at 13:40:04
You know what, Muffled? I'm hurting too much to be able to be very nice, follow many rules, or even laugh. I guess that's why I was posting about my troubles - because at this moment, I seem to have so very many of them.
And when things started to go so wrong here, I figured the best thing to do was clam up before I got into worse trouble. But it's the last thing I wanted to be able to do.
I kind of wanted people to be able to connect the dots I had put out there, but instead I broke the rules. Stoopid hurting me. This is no place to be when you're really hurting, that's for sure. All you get is a reminder that the guidelines must be followed, no matter what the depth of your own pain may be. And that is the babble way.
There is love in this world. The sun is actually shining where I live, but I look like a freak right now and would frighten small dogs and children if I went out. So I hide in my house, look for refuge on the computer, and find that there is none.
So I will turn it off and hope that Santa comes when Dr Bob answers his emails - ho ho ho!
Posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2008, at 14:49:15
In reply to Re: an imbalance... » twinleaf, posted by seldomseen on December 21, 2008, at 12:43:34
I knew "mandate" was not the right word as soon as I wrote it! But I didn't take the time to find a word which would better reflect my meaning. I meant something more like readers feeling empathy for posters who are weathering crises, and wanting to show their support and caring. I didn't mean that that is required or expected, but just that it often happens, and can be very valuable and helpful.
People in pain wouldn't post here at all if they did not have some expectation of warmth, care and understanding from others who have *known* them here for years.As far as intent, I, also, do not believe deputies have anything other than the best intentions when they apply civility rules. But there is sort of disconnect which has occurred here many times- the deputies administer the guidelines appropriately, and with the best of intentions, but the poster on the receiving end often feels hurt. That just occurred here with Partly, and it occurred with SSSS only about ten days ago. I simply made the suggestion that the guidelines be administered as usual- no changes needed there- but that a phrase or two of empathy about each situation be included. I know all the deputies have done that it in past- 10der comes to mind especially for being very sensitive to posters' feelings and for expressing that very well in her PCBs and blocks, but all of the deputies do it very well. I do think that an empathic, sensitive phrase or two accompanying each guideline action, tailored to the situation, will prevent a lot of the anger and hurt we are seeing now.
Posted by seldomseen on December 21, 2008, at 14:59:33
In reply to well said...where is the love? (nm) » twinleaf, posted by fayeroe on December 21, 2008, at 14:00:24
That's a really really good question. Where is the love?
A little history here perhaps... I grew up in a house where how someone felt gave them license to do whatever they wanted. My father felt angry, he took it out on us. My mother felt agitated, she took it out on everyone around her. Same with my brother.
Is that how you love someone?
All they had to do was simply say, "i had a bad day at work" or even "i don't feel well". Instead, in my house, there was no standard of behaviour, no evidence of emotion regulation or control. It was mayhem.
While I certainly do not think that any one should (or can for that matter) have to control the way they feel, I do think people can control what they say and what they do.
Babble is not therapy where there is some trained therapist sitting there with the skill to deflect.
In fact, most of us are pretty raw pretty much of the time.
There is a lot of love to be had in receiving the understanding and support of others, but I also think there is also a lot of love in expressing ourselves thoughtfully and with reverance to others.
Isn't there a lot to be said for that kind of love as well?
Isn't there room for both here?
Seldom.
Posted by seldomseen on December 21, 2008, at 15:07:01
In reply to Re: an imbalance... » seldomseen, posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2008, at 14:49:15
No worries about the "mandate" at all.
Sorry if I can across abruptly.
I agree, if there is something we can do to make PBCs etc... appear less hurtful then by all means I'm all for it.
I can't imagine anyone wouldn't be for it.
Seldom.
Posted by fayeroe on December 21, 2008, at 15:07:29
In reply to Re: well said...where is the love?, posted by seldomseen on December 21, 2008, at 14:59:33
This is a mental health forum. We come here because we have mental health issues. We, of all people, can expect posters to be hurting and express themselves here.
"Where is the love" simply meant..where, here, is the love for another soul in need?
Nothing more, nothing less. NADA.
Hey, if it asking too much of this site to reach out.......so be it..........I am sick and tired of all of the excuses that pop up when a poster needs support.
I am gone from this forum for good.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2008, at 3:33:04
In reply to an imbalance..., posted by twinleaf on December 21, 2008, at 11:36:49
> Slap me in the face yet keep me from discussing the source of the pain.
>
> I haven't yet heard - what a surprise - from the emails that I've sent Dr Bob on this very subject and others.> This is no place to be when you're really hurting, that's for sure. All you get is a reminder that the guidelines must be followed, no matter what the depth of your own pain may be.
>
> PartlycloudyI apologize for taking so long to reply. And I'm sorry you've been feeling so triggered.
Posters who are hurting may get reminders about the guidelines, but I think they usually get some support here, too. But I think it can be difficult to discuss hurt when the "source" is seen as another poster. It might help to process something that happens, but might polarize the community, too.
Also, please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused (for example, of slapping you in the face).
> a poster had caused further pain in a private email.
>
> twinleafI appreciate the reminder to be empathic and caring, but please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused (for example, of causing pain).
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Partlycloudy on December 22, 2008, at 7:00:09
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting » Partlycloudy » twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2008, at 3:33:04
Posted by twinleaf on December 22, 2008, at 10:10:14
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting » Partlycloudy » twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on December 22, 2008, at 3:33:04
This is unbelievable. I made a very supportive, clarifying statement about the deputies roles, along with a SUGGESTION, NOT A REMINDER that an empathic phrase might help to avoid pain when the guidelines are being administered. My post did not contain any criticism of anyone. yet I am told not to "remind" anyone to be empathic, because they might feel put down. There was a time, in March of 2008, when suggestions were welcomed and sought after as a way out of the crisis which was occurring then. Now, apparently, even suggestions are no longer permitted. They are now considered implicit criticisms rather than ideas which might be helpful.
Psychobabble has turned into a cold, heartless mess. Longtime posters whom we all know to be friendly, caring and reliable, and who have helped others, often for years, are hurt just when they are suffering crises in their own lives. No-one, none of the deputies, and not Dr. Bob, pays the slightest attention to that. All of you just dither around, mindlessly and endlessly applying your guidelines. In the process, you have crushed the life and spirit out of Babble. I consider it to be a dangerous forum for anyone with mental health issues now.
I will never spend another moment here; I will not know what you say to me or about me, nor will I know how much of a block you have given me. None of it is worth a minute more of my time.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 10:15:05
In reply to Re: Please follow site guidelines..., posted by Partlycloudy on December 21, 2008, at 6:44:54
x
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 10:22:24
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting, posted by twinleaf on December 22, 2008, at 10:10:14
(((((Twinleaf))))
I would like to thank you for your support you have given me on the boards concerning my block, you were right I was only wanting to reach out in my desperate need for someone to care enough to help. You probably have saved my life when I was feeling so low, so rejected and unheard. Words cannot say how much I appreciated this support from you, even though I couldn't post back a response because I was blocked. I hope you stay around twinleaf.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 22, 2008, at 10:24:21
In reply to Re: Please follow site guidelines..., posted by Partlycloudy on December 21, 2008, at 6:44:54
I understand your frustration, (((((PC)))))
Posted by gardenergirl on December 22, 2008, at 11:36:49
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting, posted by twinleaf on December 22, 2008, at 10:10:14
> This is unbelievable. I made a very supportive, clarifying statement about the deputies roles, along with a SUGGESTION, NOT A REMINDER that an empathic phrase might help to avoid pain when the guidelines are being administered. l
Perhaps you might find it easier to believe if you focused on what part of your post Dr. Bob actually cited. Nothing he wrote challenges, negates, or contradicts anything you said above.
> yet I am told not to "remind" anyone to be empathic, because they might feel put down.
Yeah, ummm...Dr. Bob's post says nothing of the kind. Perhaps you might benefit from doing some work on cognitive distortion?
> No-one, none of the deputies, and not Dr. Bob, pays the slightest attention to that. All of you just dither around, mindlessly and endlessly applying your guidelines.
> What is your evidence for this? Does your hypothesis really hold up under testing?
>
> None of it is worth a minute more of my time.That would be a shame.
gg
Posted by muffled on December 22, 2008, at 11:44:20
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting » twinleaf, posted by gardenergirl on December 22, 2008, at 11:36:49
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 11:47:32
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting » twinleaf, posted by gardenergirl on December 22, 2008, at 11:36:49
> Perhaps you might benefit from doing some work on cognitive distortion?
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on December 22, 2008, at 12:09:17
In reply to Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 11:47:32
I'm sorry. I thought I had framed it as enough of a possibility and suggestion to pass muster, but it seems I missed my mark.
Hi, btw. :)
gg
Posted by Deputy Dinah on December 22, 2008, at 12:11:00
In reply to sorry » Deputy Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on December 22, 2008, at 12:09:17
Posted by seldomseen on December 22, 2008, at 14:51:49
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting, posted by twinleaf on December 22, 2008, at 10:10:14
It actually took me a few times through to get at what Dr. Bob was saying, but he said he appreciated your suggestion of empathy and kindness.
His problem was elsewhere in your post.
I really really really hope you don't leave. However, whatever makes you feel safe is (of course) the right thing to do.
I wish you a happy holiday and a wonderful 2009.
Should you decide to return, I, for one, will welcome you back.
Seldom
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on December 23, 2008, at 0:28:48
In reply to Re: when you're really hurting, posted by twinleaf on December 22, 2008, at 10:10:14
>Longtime posters......are hurt just when they are suffering crises in their own lives. No-one, none of the deputies, and not Dr. Bob, pays the slightest attention to that. All of you just dither around, mindlessly and endlessly applying your guidelines.
Please don't post anything that could lead others, including the deputies and Dr. Bob, to feel accused or put down, or jump to conclusions about others. Since you have been asked more than once recently to follow the civility guidelines, I am going to block you from posting for 2 weeks per Dr. Bob's formula as explained in the FAQ.
> My post did not contain any criticism of anyone.
I respectfully disagree. I think it's reasonable that others could feel criticized (accused and put down) by the above statements.
>yet I am told not to "remind" anyone to be empathic, because they might feel put down.
I'm sorry you felt Dr, Bob was telling you that. I don't see it that way, but clearly you did. Did you possibly misread his sentence? The only thing I see is him referring to this:
"a poster had caused further pain in a private email," which is uncivil. He was reminding you not to, and I quote, "post anything that could lead others to feel accused (for example, of causing pain)" That part was in no way related to the first part of his sentence, IMO.
He said he appreciated the reminder about empathy, and I've never known Dr. Bob to post something like that he doesn't mean. Maybe next time you could ask him for clarification, if that would help with potential misunderstandings and hurt feelings?
>In the process, you have crushed the life and spirit out of Babble.
Again, I am sorry you feel that way. I hope and believe Babble still has life and spirit.
Twinleaf, on a more personal note, I did see what you wrote in a recent post about my deputy posts and thank you for the kind words. I spend a lot of time on them (too much, I'll bet at least my T. would suggest, knowing how my perfectionist tendencies mess up my life at times) trying to say just what I mean, and be fair and decent, yet still apply the guidelines. It's something we *all* take seriously and care very much about. And you have, more than once, posted supportive and kind things about ALL the deputies - I do remember. That is partly why I feel sad and somewhat bewildered at the different sort of words I have unfortunately found myself having to quote here.
> I will never spend another moment here
I hope you change your mind.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin, and should of course, be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
--10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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