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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by deerock on December 6, 2013, at 20:05:12
hi there.
im really struggling with the nardil and if i should stay on it. i have a history of addiction so self control is not my strong suit but i can follow directions for the most part and my doc seems to think i can make proper judgements and trusts me with the nardil. HOWEVER...i feel like i keep getting wacked with high BP from this med.i end up in the ER yesterday. so today i vow to be more careful. after going to dinner, i ordered a burrito. hold the sour cream and cheese i say. i get the burrito and wolf it down and realize it has guacomole in it and the diet coke im drinking with it has caffeine. within several minutes, maybe 30 or so, i feel the same symptoms that sent me to the ER just less severe. the symptoms calm down and i come home and check my BP about 3 hours later. its 145/100 which is kind of normal for me. my BP was 140/90 before i took the nardil.
the burrito had what, aged avocado and maybe the rice was cooked in chicken broth that had some yeast in the boullion cube and the diet coke had caffeine. but either im really sensitive to tyramine reactions, or im causing myself to freak out due to anxiety.
i eat out once per day on average, a burrito or breakfast at a restaurant is not unusual for me, neither is a slice of pizza...all of which seem like they would be normal.
i want to give this med a shot, its only been 2 weeks...and i think i can do it but it seems to be very hard for me and its frustrating. i dont want to have a stroke over not being able to follow directions.
Posted by baseball55 on December 6, 2013, at 21:29:26
In reply to nardil frustration, posted by deerock on December 6, 2013, at 20:05:12
You can't eat tons of cheese and aged meats, but you don't need to be obsessive about this. Sour cream is not cheese. It is fine. Avocado is not a problem (though some websites say avoid it it's gone brown - which is a good idea with any vegetable anyway). You need to get a good list of what's okay and not okay and stick with it.
People sometimes get neurotic about the MAOI diet - as if a slice of pepperoni pizza is going to kill them. For years, I avoided all soy sauce, refused to join friends for sushi, etc. Then my doc told me that a couple of tablespoons was fine. Now I go out for sushi all the time. I just make sure to use tiny amounts of soy sauce.
All sources I've read, plus what my p-doc says, say that quantity matters. An ounce of feta on a salad - probably not a problem. A big slab of cheddar on french bread - watch it. Dip a maki-roll in a teaspoon of soy sauce - ok. Eat a stir fry with 1/2 cup of soy sauce - watch it.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 6, 2013, at 21:48:36
In reply to Re: nardil frustration, posted by baseball55 on December 6, 2013, at 21:29:26
I think you're letting anxiety get the better of you - your visit to the er with a BP of 160/100 is an example, there are hundreds of thousands of americans walking around with BP in that range, it doesn't constitute a hypertensive crisis.
Watch your diet, and give Nardil a fair trial at adequate dosage (upto 90mg/day) - it can turn your life around, it did mine
Posted by Phillipa on December 6, 2013, at 21:56:31
In reply to Re: nardil frustration, posted by jono_in_adelaide on December 6, 2013, at 21:48:36
How bout till you feel confident with the diet you write it down and carry it with you for an instant check? Phillipa
Posted by stargazer2 on December 6, 2013, at 21:56:54
In reply to Re: nardil frustration, posted by baseball55 on December 6, 2013, at 21:29:26
Sorry to hear your frustration with the dietary restrictions. I think I have been lucky over the years I have taken MAOs since I only had the one reaction and I eat things in moderation but not every day.
I think Nardil can have more reactivity than Marplan but all in all, everyone varies to some degree with the allowances they are given as to type and amount of foods to be avoided.
My saying when I was new to MAOS was that I could avoid most of the foods since the majority were things I felt I could avoid with the exception of cheese.
If my mood was better on NArdil after never having any other medication work, I would eat bread and water to stay on that medication. That is how resistent my depression has been over 30 years
I never ended up in the ER that time I had a reaction. I took my BP at home and took Nifedipine and treated it myself.
Here is a good article that may give you some additional information. The food list is somewhat hard to follow but worth figuring out.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 8, 2013, at 2:47:25
In reply to nardil frustration, posted by deerock on December 6, 2013, at 20:05:12
>its 145/100 which is kind of normal for me. my BP was 140/90 before i took the nardil.
That level of fluctuation in BP is normal. BP does not remain constant (in anyone).
You do, however, need to think about what your food contains before you eat it! :)
Posted by ed_uk2010 on December 8, 2013, at 2:51:42
In reply to nardil frustration, posted by deerock on December 6, 2013, at 20:05:12
How does this sound?
For your first few weeks on Nardil, eat home made food (well, not necessarily home made, but don't eat out). This will allow you to consider what your food contains and learn about what you can and cannot eat, following the guidelines.
Once you get used to the guidelines and restrictions, you can start to eat out again - with caution. You will sometimes need to check with the staff what meals actually contain. Just tell them you have allergies, make something up. They don't need to know about the Nardil. You could write a short list of major food issues (eg. cheese etc) on a piece of paper to check with the waitor.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 8, 2013, at 10:12:39
In reply to Re: nardil frustration, posted by ed_uk2010 on December 8, 2013, at 2:51:42
With all of the events related to foods and Nardil, overall what has been your responses to it? Has it reduced your depression?
I'm back and forth with it, not sure what it is doing at 45 mg. Its been about 4 weeks and usually when a MAO has worked it has kicked in quickly to the point where I feel so happy and sometimes even "normal" for once.
Please give me your feedback of Nardil despite your frustration with the food issues. Thanks.
Posted by deerock on December 11, 2013, at 3:51:39
In reply to Re: nardil frustration?Deerock, posted by stargazer2 on December 8, 2013, at 10:12:39
star u was on nardil at 45 mg for almost 3 weeks, one week on 30. i definitely helped w the depression. nothing like going off nardil to realize how much it was helping. it definitely made a difference. but it wasnt complete and in my case it was not sustainable due to mysterious side effects, as you know.
whats your status w. nardil at this time?
Posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 13:38:26
In reply to Re: nardil frustration?Deerock » stargazer2, posted by deerock on December 11, 2013, at 3:51:39
Dee,
Hi I'm still on Nardil at 60 mg and feeling suicidal or rather that life is not worth living. I have no ability to interact with people socially, never have and wonder why I'm even trying. When I was married (3 years ago) I was depressed but not this sad and alone in life. I don't even care anymore except I'm not sure why others are able to relate to people and I find the whole process arduous and worthless.
As I said in one of my other posts (barking up the wrong tree) I feel that my depression may be from my childhood, lacking bonding and love and I never had this to give even when I was married. I want to be so different but this is the hand I was dealt except it has become too difficult to live this life now, as I live alone, don't work and have few social contacts. There is really no reason to try anymore.
Does anyone else here relate to this and think it is different than the basic depression that so many describe that has a beginning, runs its course and then is succesfully treated. This has never happened for me in 57 years. Life is just not worth it to me in my 30 years of trying find the "answer" when now I know there is not one.
Star
Posted by deerock on December 22, 2013, at 13:46:58
In reply to Nardil failure?/losing hope/Deerock others, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 13:38:26
star it sounds like you feel really hopeless. im sorry that is really a hard place to be. it sounds like you may be in a spot where things are so hard you look back on everything else in your life and it seems worse than it was. is that possible?
i think what you are describing is different from situational depression that happens for some specific reason, like loss of a job and changes when the person gets a job. im not sure though. i think that even people with life long depression feel better when circumstances in their life change.
are you working with a therapist? what does your shrink say about how you feel? 60 may be too low a dose and it may be too soon.
i certainly dont think it is reasonable to expect your life wont get any better. i think you may want to explore why you feel that way so strongly.
let me know your thoughts. youre in a tough spot but these states change. they always do.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 15:55:46
In reply to Re: Nardil failure?/losing hope/Deerock others » stargazer2, posted by deerock on December 22, 2013, at 13:46:58
Thank you for responding. No I think my situation is as good as it is going to get. That is the conclusion I have come to. When I was married, my husband was a saint and didn't expect much from me so it was an easy way for me to exist and not have any expectations put on me. I don't think many people would be as passive as he was, we both were but at some point he obviously couldn't live with someone who was depressed and couldn't give him anything as much as he asked for things.
I'm not sure "what I have", I am clueless to understand what will help me and obviously every therapist I have had was also in the dark. They just took my money but didn't know what they were doing. I have no idea what is the right way to address whatever the hell I have, when the experts can't help, you really feel like there is no solution and this is where I'm at right now.
I'm supposed to have TMS in a few weeks, but it is only 3 or 4 treatments so God only know what that will do. Again, not knowing what is the right way to approach something that is so unclear, even experts really aren't, because depression and psychological conditions are so
uncertain, that the therapists have no idea how to approach each case. They don't even ask the right questions. I came up with the attachment disorder, not them. They think I should just go out and be social and my depression will go away...if it were this simple that would have been a slam dunk a few years ago I think.Star
Posted by kirkglen on March 30, 2014, at 11:12:53
In reply to Re: Nardil failure?/losing hope/Deerock others, posted by stargazer2 on December 22, 2013, at 15:55:46
Stargazer
One thing I've found in my life is you are born with depression. Some respond in their childhood others later in life. I've watched my siblings at different ages fall into depression. We were all raised in a different environment.
Being depressed "causes" sadness as your life is so limited. So it's an additive effect as humans want warmth, love, company, etc. Nothing in your life caused you to be depressed.
Now how long have you been taking Nardil? How did you start taking it? Did you ramp up to 90mg and stay there for awhile? That's the normal dose to
kick-start Nardil.Now as far as being suicidal.....more than likely everyone on this site has felt it. You haven't even touched the medicines available. Get your doc to give you some benzos to improve your mood and a rope to hang on to. Give Nardil a chance and pls. stay posted to this board. I PROMISE LIFE WILL GET BETTER. I mentioned my siblings and they have lived miserable lives because they're to ashamed to say HELP!
This is the end of the thread.
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