![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 71. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 26, 2013, at 22:39:38
> > First, the drugs you are taking are both central nervous system depressants.
>
> 1. Effexor is not a CNS depressant. The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction of this drug with CNS depressants.
>
> "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
>
> http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
>
> 2. Although Trileptal is sometimes listed as a CNS depressant, I believe this become a risk only in overdose. I would need to research this more, though.
>
> > When they are combined they magnify the individual effects and in your case could cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.
>
> 3. What are the individual effects of Trileptal and Effexor that when combined yield the sequalae that you claim occur?
>
> 4. What citations can you provide that prove these sequalae to be cause and effect? The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction between Effexor and CNS depressants.
>
> "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
>
> http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
>
> > But stopping drugs like this can also put you in a mind-altered state
>
> 5. I imagine that this can happen, but what is the nature of this mind-altered state, and how does it affect mood and behavior? Withdrawal can be very difficult to manage, especially when it produces depression and agitation.
>
> > to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others
>
> 6. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate these compulsions, and what are the statistics regarding their rates occurrence?
>
> > even commit mass-murder.
>
> 7. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate examples of this phenomenon?
>
> 8. If you cannot provide evidence to support your statement, then I would characterize it as being a gross exaggeration. That sort of thing is frowned upon by this website.
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
BE ADVISED THAT WHAT YOU READ HERE COULD MARK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU BEING A LIVE PERSON OR A CORPSE.
Now it is written here by Scott,[...Effexor is not a CNS depressant..].
Here is a site that tells the category of drugs. Notice that Effexor is in the category of a central nervous system depressant. Also is Trileptal. The names as oxcarbazepine and venlafaxine are used in alphabetical order in the following list. But it is much more than that.
You see, the core chemical structures of the drugs show what these drugs are and they are not new drugs but knock-offs of old drugs, chemically altered slightly, and the addiction potential of Effexor is part of all of this here in discussion. My friends, I am prevented by the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung to show you the full facts behind the development of Effexor, and prevented in responding fully to Scott's statements here.
But be it as it may be, let us look at this list.
Lou
http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:47:58
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
> > > First, the drugs you are taking are both central nervous system depressants.
> >
> > 1. Effexor is not a CNS depressant. The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction of this drug with CNS depressants.
> >
> > "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
> >
> > http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
> >
> > 2. Although Trileptal is sometimes listed as a CNS depressant, I believe this become a risk only in overdose. I would need to research this more, though.
> >
> > > When they are combined they magnify the individual effects and in your case could cause death by cardiac or respiratory failure.
> >
> > 3. What are the individual effects of Trileptal and Effexor that when combined yield the sequalae that you claim occur?
> >
> > 4. What citations can you provide that prove these sequalae to be cause and effect? The cautions issued in some literature and package labeling offer nothing more than speculation regarding the interaction between Effexor and CNS depressants.
> >
> > "It is not known how venlafaxine will interact with alcohol and other central nervous system (CNS) depressants"
> >
> > http://www.drugs.com/cons/effexor-xr.html
> >
> > > But stopping drugs like this can also put you in a mind-altered state
> >
> > 5. I imagine that this can happen, but what is the nature of this mind-altered state, and how does it affect mood and behavior? Withdrawal can be very difficult to manage, especially when it produces depression and agitation.
> >
> > > to compel you to want to kill yourself and/or others
> >
> > 6. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate these compulsions, and what are the statistics regarding their rates occurrence?
> >
> > > even commit mass-murder.
> >
> > 7. What studies or anecdotes can you provide that demonstrate examples of this phenomenon?
> >
> > 8. If you cannot provide evidence to support your statement, then I would characterize it as being a gross exaggeration. That sort of thing is frowned upon by this website.
> >
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
> BE ADVISED THAT WHAT YOU READ HERE COULD MARK THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU BEING A LIVE PERSON OR A CORPSE.
> Now it is written here by Scott,[...Effexor is not a CNS depressant..].
> Here is a site that tells the category of drugs. Notice that Effexor is in the category of a central nervous system depressant. Also is Trileptal. The names as oxcarbazepine and venlafaxine are used in alphabetical order in the following list. But it is much more than that.
> You see, the core chemical structures of the drugs show what these drugs are and they are not new drugs but knock-offs of old drugs, chemically altered slightly, and the addiction potential of Effexor is part of all of this here in discussion. My friends, I am prevented by the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung to show you the full facts behind the development of Effexor, and prevented in responding fully to Scott's statements here.
> But be it as it may be, let us look at this list.
> Lou
> http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdfFriends,
Just what are the chemicals in these drugs? Where do they come from? Who devised such concoctions? What do they do to your brain and organs? How can one taking these drugs escape the horrific consequences of withdrawal from Effexor? What would happen to the ones taking Effexor for the rest of their lives?
My friends, I have written a little here about Benzene. And chemists have devised a way to connect two benzene rings with another chemical and get what is known as a {dibenzo}. Now the benzene does not change to apple butter in this combination of chemicals.
Now you can get phenyl and phenol from benzene, chemically that is. And reacting benzene with hydrogen, gives cyclohexene. These are chemicals in the core structure of many of these drugs that come from diesel fuel or coal tar. These chemicals are psychoactive and children sniff vapors from these chemicals to have a mind-altered state induced in them by the vapors from the chemicals such as toluene which is a derivative of benzene. The dangers to the nervous system are well-known and go back to Germany before 1933.
Lou
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 6:10:49
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
> http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
Nice try.
I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
Any other citations?
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 6:11:33
In reply to Lou's warning and reply-, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:47:58
>I have written a little here about Benzene
Benzene itself is toxic. This is of no relevance to molecules containing benzene rings, however. Many vital biological molecules contain benzene rings. Examples include vitamin E and vitamin K. The natural proteins of the body have a vast number of benzene rings on amino acids such as phenylalanine. This does not make them toxic.
I think it's best not to try and teach chemistry unless you understand it.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 6:40:23
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
> >I have written a little here about Benzene
And I have written here more than just a little to demonstrate that this repetitious claim of yours is factually wrong and comprised of disinformation. Thankfully, there are people here with appropriate degrees in biology and pharmacology that are able to teach people the facts regarding the differences between molecular benzene and the incorporation of benzene ring structures into the essential molecules of life.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20130222/msgs/1039645.html
I don't see how you can claim expertise in organic chemistry and still post things that are factually wrong. If you are an expert, then you would necessarily be posting things that you know to be untrue. This is uncivil according to the posting guidelines found in the FAQ of this website.
The following passage posted along this thread is factually correct.
> Benzene itself is toxic. This is of no relevance to molecules containing benzene rings, however. Many vital biological molecules contain benzene rings. Examples include vitamin E and vitamin K. The natural proteins of the body have a vast number of benzene rings on amino acids such as phenylalanine. This does not make them toxic.
>
> I think it's best not to try and teach chemistry unless you understand it.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 6:51:50
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch. » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 6:10:49
> > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
>
> Nice try.
>
> I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
>
> Any other citations?
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
So those of you that are trying to make a more informed decision as to drug your child or yourself with these drugs, take heed that you get all the facts, facts that could mark the difference between being a live person or a corpse. The chart in the link is from Washington, not Los Angeles. And anyway, you can go to Drugs.com and use their interaction checker to see for yourselves how they list the two drugs. They have two features of the interaction checker and use the "professional" feature.
Lou
Posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 7:04:57
In reply to Lou's reply-20yerz » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 6:51:50
> > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> >
> > Nice try.
> >
> > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> >
> > Any other citations?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Friends,
> It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 7:07:25
In reply to Re: Lou's warning and reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 6:11:33
Hi Ed.
If you notice, I try to make a habit of resetting the posting subject line to reflect the theme of the thread whenever it is deleted and replaced by only the name of the respondent. I hope that doing this helps to prevent the chronic hijacking of threads and maintain the integrity of the forum. Otherwise, the board really looks ugly and unappealing when half of the posts contain only the name of the same one poster.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 7:18:55
In reply to The chart is dated 2009 » Lou Pilder, posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 7:04:57
> > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s...> > Friends,
> > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.Nice try.
I believe I used the word "established" - not "written".
This sort of change in an authors's verbiage becomes disinformation when it is used to fit an agenda.
> > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.Thanks, Emme, for making this fact clearly visible.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
In reply to The chart is dated 2009 » Lou Pilder, posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 7:04:57
> > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > >
> > > Nice try.
> > >
> > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > >
> > > Any other citations?
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > Friends,
> > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
>
> The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
>
>Emmme_V2,
The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
Lou
Posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 8:40:31
In reply to Lou's reply- » Emme_V2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
> > > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Nice try.
> > > >
> > > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > > >
> > > > Any other citations?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> >
> > The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
> >
> >
>
> Emmme_V2,
> The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
> If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
> Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
> But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
> Lou
Lou -The purpose of my post was to note the correct date of the chart. I do not have the time to pursue the full history of the chart.
I believe the weaknesses the arguments in the rest of your post to me have been adequately addressed by other posters. Therefore, I will have no further discourse with you on this.
I have restored the subject line to the subject line in my original post.
Have a nice day.
emme
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:47:21
In reply to Lou's reply- » Emme_V2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
> > > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Nice try.
> > > >
> > > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > > >
> > > > Any other citations?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > > Friends,
> > > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> >
> > The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
> >
> >
>
> Emmme_V2,
> The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
> If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
> Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
> But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
> LouFriends,
The taking of a combination od CNS depressants can be deadly. The two drugs in question are Trileptal and Effexor taken together.
Now the chart offered by me here states that it was issued in 2009. There is posted here that {issued} could mean an update from a previous version. So what? Even if it is an update from some version, which version and from who? Does it matter? Well, if it an update from a Los Angeles version from the 1970s, then so what? I do not think that the LA police are bozos and do not know the difference between an CNS depressant and stimulant or something else.
So let it be with the chart. The overriding aspect here is to warn you that the drugs in question are indeed CNS depressants. I base this on the chart that I cited as accurate, and I have seen nothing to refute its accuracy except a claim that the LA police produced the original document in the 70s, and I say, so what?
Here is a link from drugs.com showing the interactions between Trileptal and Effexor.
Parents, do you want to take the risk of having your child or yourself drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist with these mind-altering drugs that show that when taken together they are CNS depressants and could kill your child or yourself?
Lou
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-checker.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1765-1129
Posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 8:50:56
In reply to Lou's reply- » Emme_V2, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 7:49:03
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:56:25
In reply to Lou's reply-drugs.com, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:47:21
> > > > > > http://www.decp.org/experts/DrugChart.pdf
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice try.
> > > > >
> > > > > I actually came across this chart before I submitted my last post. It is wrong. All antidepressants are listed as CNS depressants, including Wellbutrin. This is an unfortunate example of misinformation. The chart was established by the Los Angeles police department in the early 1970s to justify their DWI (driving while intoxicated) program. They are far from being a definitive source of pharmacological information, despite their claiming support by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It really is an amusing website as it is an example of fabricating "facts" and claiming expertise to fit an agenda - convictions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any other citations?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - Scott
> > > >
> > > > Friends,
> > > > It is written here that the chart of the category that the drugs are in was written in the 1970s by the Los Angeles Police dept.
> > > > But I say to you readers, that Effexor was not put on the market in the US until 1993.
> > >
> > > The chart may have been initially established in the 1970s, but lower right hand corner of the pages of the chart indicate that it was issued 03/19/09. Clearly they periodically update it.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Emmme_V2,
> > The update of 2009 is for that chart. That chart is from Washington State, not Los Angeles.
> > If you believe that the chart that I cited in the link is from Los Angeles, where is there evidence to you for that so that you accept that as fact?
> > Friends, what we have here is that if the Washington chart came from the Los Angeles chart from the early 1970s, then the update could be from Washington since it was updated after the 1970s. Effexor was not marketed in the US in the early 1970s. Effexor in that chart is listed as a CNS depressant, and also look in drugs.com under interactions with Trileptal.
> > But it is much more than that here. For here one may not know that taking two CNS depressants could kill the one taking them together. And if people are led to doubt the reliability of the Washington chart, where is the evidence that the chart is not accurate? The update could be by the Washington dept, not Los Angeles.
> > Lou
>
> Friends,
> The taking of a combination od CNS depressants can be deadly. The two drugs in question are Trileptal and Effexor taken together.
> Now the chart offered by me here states that it was issued in 2009. There is posted here that {issued} could mean an update from a previous version. So what? Even if it is an update from some version, which version and from who? Does it matter? Well, if it an update from a Los Angeles version from the 1970s, then so what? I do not think that the LA police are bozos and do not know the difference between an CNS depressant and stimulant or something else.
> So let it be with the chart. The overriding aspect here is to warn you that the drugs in question are indeed CNS depressants. I base this on the chart that I cited as accurate, and I have seen nothing to refute its accuracy except a claim that the LA police produced the original document in the 70s, and I say, so what?
> Here is a link from drugs.com showing the interactions between Trileptal and Effexor.
> Parents, do you want to take the risk of having your child or yourself drugged in collaboration with a psychiatrist with these mind-altering drugs that show that when taken together they are CNS depressants and could kill your child or yourself?
> Lou
> http://www.drugs.com/interactions-checker.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1765-1129correction:
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2296-1524,1765-1129
Posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 9:09:35
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch., posted by Diana1981 on May 25, 2013, at 18:48:47
> I have not tried lithium. I am sensitive to medicine so my dr has not prescribe it to me. I have tried limictal, geodon, tiger tol and a few others. I think my dr hasn't upped the effexor because fear of more mania. I however took 70 mg today and no mood stabilizer and I had a decent day. Lethargic inthe am then a bit of manic for the rest of the day. I get this weird burning tonge like sensation in my mouth from the Trileptal that I had today, though I did not take any. What do I do tomorrow?
Hi Diana,I'm sorry you are going through such a difficult time. I too am sensitive to medications. It look literally years for me to find a combination that worked for more than a few months, but it happened. Things really can get batter. Have you and your doctor considered getting a consulting opinion?
Can you tell us which medications have been at least partially effective and tolerable for you?
It sounded from your original post that tiredness is a problem for you with a number of meds. I've found a tiny dose of a stimulant (Focalin) to be very helpful when meds make me logy. I don't know how that would factor in with bipolar - I am unipolar and don't need to worry about mania. But it does sound as if you and your doctor need some new input.
Have you and your doctor seen the research on NAC (N-acetylcysteine) for bipolar disorder? It apparently takes months to work but is supposed to be well tolerated.
Fish oil? Look up available information on Omega-Brite.
Has the burning tongue issue resolved?
Good luck.
emme
Posted by Diana1981 on May 27, 2013, at 9:09:38
In reply to correction- Lou's reply-drugs.com, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 8:56:25
I am just tryin to fin the right meds for me. I had my daughter 12 almost 13 months ago. Before my pregnancy however I began to show symptoms of bipolar. They were very intense during my pregnancy an even more intense after she was born. Currently I experience on and off depression and mood swings twice a day. I grow angry and obsessive thinking patterns. I also crave carbs and sugar constantly and when I take my triliptal I tend to obsess about food an eat all day long. Not good. I have tried so many meds an they make me so sleepy. I am just trying to find a way to be healthy again and stable.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:40:05
In reply to Just trying to find the right meds for me, posted by Diana1981 on May 27, 2013, at 9:09:38
Have you tried lower doseages? I was hit hard by postpartum depression/agitation. I know how awful it can be.
I've found my successful combo in low dose Risperdal as needed for acute agitation or obsessive thinking - a few times a month - and daily low dose Lamictal for mood stabilizing and migraine prophylaxis.
I also take Provigil for a sleep disorder, but I'm not sure if that is related.
Are you getting enough sleep and exercise? Do you have good support with your daughter? It's hard to remember to take care of ourselves when there is a toddler in the house. Are you currently in therapy? Therapy was very helpful for me. Bipolar is a medical illness, but stress can definitely exacerbate it.
Do you know why your doctor is reluctant to try Lithium? Are you bipolar I or II? Or as I am, more like III or bipolarish or cyclothymic?
Could any of your current medications be causing agitation? I was put on Luvox postpartum, and while I did see benefits from it, I now think it caused some very low level agitation that was not at all good for me.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:46:35
In reply to Re: Just trying to find the right meds for me » Diana1981, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:40:05
I think Effexor can be very stimulating. The best of my pdocs thought it was imperative to have a mood stabilizer in similar circumstances.
Posted by Diana1981 on May 27, 2013, at 10:00:26
In reply to Re: Just trying to find the right meds for me » Diana1981, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 9:40:05
I am bipolar 2 which is why my dr has not tried lithium. I am very nervous about wt gain. I get very upset and uncomfortable. I do exercise regularly however I have noticed that since being on the Trileptal my motivation and running time have decreased drastically.
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 10:03:01
In reply to Just trying to find the right meds for me, posted by Diana1981 on May 27, 2013, at 9:09:38
> I am just tryin to fin the right meds for me. I had my daughter 12 almost 13 months ago. Before my pregnancy however I began to show symptoms of bipolar. They were very intense during my pregnancy an even more intense after she was born. Currently I experience on and off depression and mood swings twice a day. I grow angry and obsessive thinking patterns. I also crave carbs and sugar constantly and when I take my triliptal I tend to obsess about food an eat all day long. Not good. I have tried so many meds an they make me so sleepy. I am just trying to find a way to be healthy again and stable.
D,
You wrote in your original post what could be thought that you were contemplating either to find another drug or stop drugging yourself. But now I see that you are wanting to stop the drugs that you are taking and then try to find the "right drugs". But in another vein, you say that:
[...I am just trying to find a way to be healthy *again* and be stable...]
Now that could mean:
A. you want to go back before you took the drugs when you were healthy and stable
B. the pregnancy has caused the depression and swings
C. the symptoms were there before the pregnancy and exhibited magnification during pregnancy
D. something else.
Now I don't claim to be clairvoyant, so I can't know what's ahead. But being that you bring in the childbirth and cravings, that can lend some facts that could keep you from being dead. Those facts lead me to believe that the drugs that you are taking could be the culprit. I base this on a wide-verity of knowledge concerning the chemicals in the drugs and my study of {nerve agents} of which a lot of what I need to post here is prohibited to me by Mr Hsiung. You see, the literature states that the mechanism of action of these drugs is unknown. But it is known how the chemicals can cause death in combination.
Now if you want to find the right drug, if there is one, could you not die from the attempts with drugs before you found it? Could you not get addicted along the way? And could you not then have to take the drug for the rest of your life and get tardive dyskinesia or diabetes or psychosis or destruction and loss of your sexuality and other dehumanizing life-ruining conditions from the drug? But what if you could go back to the green fields, that you used to know, where there were flowers kissed by the sun and rivers there to run, and no drug to be scared of being killed by?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:19:35
In reply to Re: Just trying to find the right meds for me, posted by Diana1981 on May 27, 2013, at 10:00:26
It's all a tradeoff.
The best of my pdocs said to me "There are side effects of medications. There are side effects of not taking medications. It's up to you which side effects you prefer."
You can try to get your stress level down as much as possible. That may help without unpleasant side effects.
But medications are not all that targeted in their action. Effexor works on depression and motivation and energy. But it might overshoot that energy goal and bring you to anxiety and agitation. A mood stabilizer might be good for mood volatility, but cost something (depending on the mood stabilizer) in energy or urge to eat. An AAP can be fabulous for anxiety control, but taken regularly it does have long and short term side effects.
What did Lamictal do to you? I've found it to be a medication with few side effects, though not particularly dramatic in primary effects either.
Are you at the lowest effective dose on your medications? Trying to find that sweet spot might be as helpful as trying new medications.
Posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:28:21
In reply to Re: Just trying to find the right meds for me » Diana1981, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:19:35
For example, I'm willing to accept whatever risk comes with my as-needed Risperdal use. It's *that* effective. My life has changed because of it.
I'm not saying that this is a side effect of Risperdal, but if someone told me it was, I'd say...
A few years off my life? Fine. It will be a life worth living.
Posted by Emme_V2 on May 27, 2013, at 10:39:50
In reply to Re: Just trying to find the right meds for me » Diana1981, posted by Dinah on May 27, 2013, at 10:19:35
> It's all a tradeoff.
>
> The best of my pdocs said to me "There are side effects of medications. There are side effects of not taking medications. It's up to you which side effects you prefer."
>
> You can try to get your stress level down as much as possible. That may help without unpleasant side effects.
>
> But medications are not all that targeted in their action. Effexor works on depression and motivation and energy. But it might overshoot that energy goal and bring you to anxiety and agitation. A mood stabilizer might be good for mood volatility, but cost something (depending on the mood stabilizer) in energy or urge to eat. An AAP can be fabulous for anxiety control, but taken regularly it does have long and short term side effects.
>
> What did Lamictal do to you? I've found it to be a medication with few side effects, though not particularly dramatic in primary effects either.
>
> Are you at the lowest effective dose on your medications? Trying to find that sweet spot might be as helpful as trying new medications.Dinah,
Those are very wise words.
I totally agree, dosing is so important. For people who are very sensitive to medications, therapeutic doses can be surprisingly low, and it can help alleviate side effects if you find the minimum effective dose.
emme
Posted by Phillipa on May 27, 2013, at 11:34:59
In reply to Lou's warning and reply- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 27, 2013, at 5:10:49
Lou this site seems to be from the Washington State patrol. Is it used for impaired drivers?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on May 27, 2013, at 13:03:50
In reply to Re: At a dead end- stop meds or switch. » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on May 27, 2013, at 7:07:25
> Hi Ed.
>
> If you notice, I try to make a habit of resetting the posting subject line to reflect the theme of the thread whenever it is deleted and replaced by only the name of the respondent. I hope that doing this helps to prevent the chronic hijacking of threads and maintain the integrity of the forum. Otherwise, the board really looks ugly and unappealing when half of the posts contain only the name of the same one poster.
>
>
> - ScottGood idea Scott. It makes a difference.
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