![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 122 to 146 of 146. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2010, at 5:23:01
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 0:04:06
Here are a few abstracts to be found on PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20149391http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19482603
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19573475
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19573472
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19317954
Posted by maxime on October 30, 2010, at 6:48:55
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 0:04:06
> Hi Phillipa,
>
> I don't think I have MS. Not at all. The last doc, a rheumy said that I was right, that I didn't fit any category. Pain level to low for fibromyalgia, but definitely fibro-ish, no sore throat but even more strongly CFS, and not enough sleep disturbance for CPS, though he ordered a sleep study. He thinks it's depression fallout and should stop looking for a dx. Pooh-poohed the hashi's.
>
> What name of what med? Do you mean the compounded synthetic t3 & t3 slow release? Does it have a name?
>
> And how often do you have your thyroid antibodies checked?Would you all mind making your own thread about this. It confuses me to have it lumped in mine.
Posted by Maxime on October 30, 2010, at 8:18:42
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on October 29, 2010, at 22:41:48
> FB we must talk. Did you read any of Mary Shoman's articles? on thyroid and gets into adrenal fatigue and fibro also. If you told me the name of that med I forgot as only know the compounded version armour thyroid the pig. I'd say no to MS as a spinal tap and MRI of brain would rule that in or out. I feel you are also getting overwhelmed as I do too. Too much info too fast. Ick!!!! Love Phillipa
Would you mind talking in your own thread. Don't highjack my thread please.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 14:46:55
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on October 30, 2010, at 5:23:01
Scott,
The second article down was the most helpful--treating all symptoms creates greater chances for breaking the cycle.
I think I'm having a bad morning, but I felt maybe the list from you was sent to me with anger or frustration.... Maybe because I haven't figured this out for
myself by now? And if this is pure projection on my part, I'm sorry.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 15:39:00
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » floatingbridge, posted by maxime on October 30, 2010, at 6:48:55
> >>> Hi Phillipa,
> >
> > I don't think I have MS. Not at all. The last doc, a rheumy said that I was right, that I didn't fit any category. Pain level to low for fibromyalgia, but definitely fibro-ish, no sore throat but even more strongly CFS, and not enough sleep disturbance for CPS, though he ordered a sleep study. He thinks it's depression fallout and should stop looking for a dx. Pooh-poohed the hashi's.
> >
> > What name of what med? Do you mean the compounded synthetic t3 & t3 slow release? Does it have a name?
> >
> > And how often do you have your thyroid antibodies checked?
>
> Would you all mind making your own thread about this. It confuses me to have it lumped in mine.
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2010, at 16:37:08
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 14:46:55
> I think I'm having a bad morning, but I felt maybe the list from you was sent to me with anger or frustration.... Maybe because I haven't figured this out for myself by now? And if this is pure projection on my part, I'm sorry.
You are such a silly thing.
:-)
I'm sorry for not writing anything along with the links. I really didn't have the energy at the time. I just wanted you to see the associations between depression and pain before the thread died. Anxiety, insomnia, and fatigue are often contributory to the presentation of this type of pain in depression.
- Scott
Depression, Musculoskeletal Pain May Respond to Antidepressant Therapy, Pain Self-ManagementJune 16, 2009 Optimized antidepressant therapy followed by a pain self-management program is associated with substantial improvement in depression as well as moderate reductions in pain severity and disability, according to the results of a randomized controlled trial reported in the May 27 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.
"Two types of treatment (one pharmacological and the other behavioral) could prove synergistic in the treatment of comorbid musculoskeletal pain and depression," write Kurt Kroenke, MD, from Regenstrief Institute Inc, in Indianapolis, Indiana, and colleagues. "Antidepressants are a well-established therapy for depression, and there is also evidence for at least moderate efficacy in pain, which may vary by type of painful disorder and antidepressant class. Pain self-management programs have proven efficacious for both low back pain and osteoarthritis."
The goal of this study was to assess the effects of a combined pharmacologic and behavioral intervention on depression and pain in primary care patients with musculoskeletal pain and comorbid depression. The Stepped Care for Affective Disorders and Musculoskeletal Pain study was conducted at 6 community-based clinics and 5 Veterans Affairs general medicine clinics in Indianapolis, Indiana, with enrollment of 250 patients from January 2005 to June 2007 and follow-up completed in June 2008.
Inclusion criteria were low back, hip, or knee pain for at least 3 months and depression severity at least moderate based on a Patient Health Questionnaire 9 score of 10 or higher. Patients were randomly assigned to receive usual care (n = 127) or an intervention (n = 123) consisting of 12 weeks of optimized antidepressant therapy (step 1) followed by 6 sessions of a pain self-management program for 12 weeks (step 2) and a continuation phase of therapy for 6 months (step 3).
Study assessments included depression, measured with the 20-item Hopkins Symptom Checklist, pain severity and interference measured with the Brief Pain Inventory, and global improvement in pain at 12 months.
At 12 months, the intervention group had a much lower number of patients with major depression (50 [40.7%]) vs the standard care group (87 [68.5%]; relative risk [RR], 0.6; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.4 - 0.8). Reduction in depression severity from baseline of 50% or greater occurred in 46 (37.4%) of the 123 intervention patients and in 21 (16.5%) of 127 usual-care patients (RR, 2.3; 95% CI, 1.5 - 3.2).
The intervention group also fared better in a greater likelihood of clinically significant (= 30%) pain reduction (51 intervention patients [41.5%] vs 22 usual-care patients [17.3%]; RR, 2.4; 95% CI, 1.6 - 3.2) and in global improvement in pain (58 [47.2%] vs 16 [12.6%], respectively; RR, 3.7; 95% CI, 2.3 - 6.1). The primary outcome of combined improvement in both depression and pain occurred in 32 intervention patients (26.0%) vs 10 usual-care patients (7.9%; RR, 3.3; 95% CI, 1.8 - 5.4).
"Optimized antidepressant therapy followed by a pain self-management program resulted in substantial improvement in depression as well as moderate reductions in pain severity and disability," the study authors write. "Additional interventions may be needed to produce larger improvements in pain and higher depression response and remission rates."
Limitations of this study include possible ascertainment bias, inability to determine the effect of the pain management program alone, inability to compare the efficacy of different antidepressants, limited generalizability to other patient groups, and some discordance between patient self-report and electronic medical record data.
"Because pain and depression are among the leading causes of decreased work productivity, an intervention that is effective for both conditions may further strengthen a business model," the study authors write. "Also, an intervention that allows a care manager to cover several conditions rather than a single disorder may enhance its implementation and cost-effectiveness. Given the prevalence, morbidity, disability, and costs of the pain-depression dyad, the SCAMP [Stepped Care for Affective Disorders and Musculoskeletal Pain] trial results have important implications."
The National Institute of Mental Health supported this study. Two of the study authors have disclosed various financial relationships with Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Wyeth, Astra-Zeneca, Forest Laboratories. Abbott, and/or Cephalon.
JAMA. 2009;301:2099-2110.
Posted by maxime on October 30, 2010, at 18:15:39
In reply to sorry maxime » maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 15:39:00
Posted by floatingbridge on October 30, 2010, at 18:53:44
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on October 30, 2010, at 16:37:08
> You are such a silly thing.
>
> :-)Yes, this has been established :) . I have also been very twitchly lately :( So my apologies to you.
>
> I'm sorry for not writing anything along with the links. I really didn't have the energy at the time. I just wanted you to see the associations between depression and pain before the thread died. Anxiety, insomnia, and fatigue are often contributory to the presentation of this type of pain in depression.
>
>
> - ScottThanks for the links, esp the following. It (below) seems to be the course I'm taking--antidepressants, and mbct which had benefited me before. Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I was, indeed, having an awful morning.
Best to you,
fb
>
>
>
>
> Depression, Musculoskeletal Pain May Respond to Antidepressant Therapy, Pain Self-Management
>
> June 16, 2009 Optimized antidepressant therapy followed by a pain self-management program is associated with substantial improvement in depression as well as moderate reductions in pain severity and disability, according to the results of a randomized controlled trial reported in the May 27 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.
>
> "Two types of treatment (one pharmacological and the other behavioral) could prove synergistic in the treatment of comorbid musculoskeletal pain and depression," write Kurt Kroenke, MD, from Regenstrief Institute Inc, in Indianapolis, Indiana, and colleagues. "Antidepressants are a well-established therapy for depression, and there is also evidence for at least moderate efficacy in pain, which may vary by type of painful disorder and antidepressant class. Pain self-management programs have proven efficacious for both low back pain and osteoarthritis."
>
> The goal of this study was to assess the effects of a combined pharmacologic and behavioral intervention on depression and pain in primary care patients with musculoskeletal pain and comorbid depression. The Stepped Care for Affective Disorders and Musculoskeletal Pain study was conducted at 6 community-based clinics and 5 Veterans Affairs general medicine clinics in Indianapolis, Indiana, with enrollment of 250 patients from January 2005 to June 2007 and follow-up completed in June 2008.
>
> Inclusion criteria were low back, hip, or knee pain for at least 3 months and depression severity at least moderate based on a Patient Health Questionnaire 9 score of 10 or higher. Patients were randomly assigned to receive usual care (n = 127) or an intervention (n = 123) consisting of 12 weeks of optimized antidepressant therapy (step 1) followed by 6 sessions of a pain self-management program for 12 weeks (step 2) and a continuation phase of therapy for 6 months (step 3).
>
> Study assessments included depression, measured with the 20-item Hopkins Symptom Checklist, pain severity and interference measured with the Brief Pain Inventory, and global improvement in pain at 12 months.
>
> At 12 months, the intervention group had a much lower number of patients with major depression (50 [40.7%]) vs the standard care group (87 [68.5%]; relative risk [RR], 0.6; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.4 - 0.8). Reduction in depression severity from baseline of 50% or greater occurred in 46 (37.4%) of the 123 intervention patients and in 21 (16.5%) of 127 usual-care patients (RR, 2.3; 95% CI, 1.5 - 3.2).
>
> The intervention group also fared better in a greater likelihood of clinically significant (= 30%) pain reduction (51 intervention patients [41.5%] vs 22 usual-care patients [17.3%]; RR, 2.4; 95% CI, 1.6 - 3.2) and in global improvement in pain (58 [47.2%] vs 16 [12.6%], respectively; RR, 3.7; 95% CI, 2.3 - 6.1). The primary outcome of combined improvement in both depression and pain occurred in 32 intervention patients (26.0%) vs 10 usual-care patients (7.9%; RR, 3.3; 95% CI, 1.8 - 5.4).
>
> "Optimized antidepressant therapy followed by a pain self-management program resulted in substantial improvement in depression as well as moderate reductions in pain severity and disability," the study authors write. "Additional interventions may be needed to produce larger improvements in pain and higher depression response and remission rates."
>
> Limitations of this study include possible ascertainment bias, inability to determine the effect of the pain management program alone, inability to compare the efficacy of different antidepressants, limited generalizability to other patient groups, and some discordance between patient self-report and electronic medical record data.
>
> "Because pain and depression are among the leading causes of decreased work productivity, an intervention that is effective for both conditions may further strengthen a business model," the study authors write. "Also, an intervention that allows a care manager to cover several conditions rather than a single disorder may enhance its implementation and cost-effectiveness. Given the prevalence, morbidity, disability, and costs of the pain-depression dyad, the SCAMP [Stepped Care for Affective Disorders and Musculoskeletal Pain] trial results have important implications."
>
> The National Institute of Mental Health supported this study. Two of the study authors have disclosed various financial relationships with Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Wyeth, Astra-Zeneca, Forest Laboratories. Abbott, and/or Cephalon.
>
> JAMA. 2009;301:2099-2110.
>
Posted by morgan miller on October 30, 2010, at 22:09:29
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on October 29, 2010, at 22:04:56
FB, have you ever considered using something like Armour or Nature-Throid? Ever been to the site "Stop the Thyroid Madness"?
Also, have you ever tried any natural treatments for you thyroid?
Posted by maxime on October 30, 2010, at 22:45:51
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY!, posted by maxime on October 29, 2010, at 16:29:25
You know, my appt. really didn't go the way I thought it would on Friday. My pdoc doesn't like using meds yet he wants me to stay on all of mine. I expected him to agree to help me slowly wean off everything. I guess that was stupid thinking. I was in awful shape in Sept/Oct when I was off my meds. Sigh. I feel sad.
Posted by morgan miller on October 31, 2010, at 0:40:04
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY!, posted by maxime on October 30, 2010, at 22:45:51
> You know, my appt. really didn't go the way I thought it would on Friday. My pdoc doesn't like using meds yet he wants me to stay on all of mine. I expected him to agree to help me slowly wean off everything. I guess that was stupid thinking. I was in awful shape in Sept/Oct when I was off my meds. Sigh. I feel sad.
So why are you sad to be on meds if you were doing so badly off them? If you can find meds that work and don't cause weight gain or other unwanted side effects, you'll be doing o.k. Your psychiatrist is still for medication, he's a psychiatrist. I totally understand why he wants you to stay on the medications you are on now, with the exception of Nortriptyline. Severe depression will cause way more damage and interference than most medications will.
Posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 0:50:47
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY!, posted by maxime on October 30, 2010, at 22:45:51
> Sigh. I feel sad.
That's understandable.
However, a great many of us were sad for years that you were struggling with severe, unremitting depression without relief, despite your earnest search for an effective treatment.
- Scott
Posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 14:18:54
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY!, posted by morgan miller on October 31, 2010, at 0:40:04
>
> So why are you sad to be on meds if you were doing so badly off them? If you can find meds that work and don't cause weight gain or other unwanted side effects, you'll be doing o.k. Your psychiatrist is still for medication, he's a psychiatrist. I totally understand why he wants you to stay on the medications you are on now, with the exception of Nortriptyline. Severe depression will cause way more damage and interference than most medications will.Because I am taking more meds that I can fit into my hands and I sitll feel like sh*t. I still cry in the bathroom at work. I cry at night. My body hurts everywhere and I can't miss any work. Why do I want to keep put putting these chemicals in me? Sure, I am doing better on them that off them but I am not doing that great. And the side effects. It seems like I will never get rid of the side effects unless I take another med which will no doubt cause more side effects and so on.
To be honest Morgan ... I WANT TO DIE. That is what all this b*llsh*t sums up to. I want to die. And not the type of dying where you wake up in some hospital room. The kind where they have a funeral for you.
Then Phillipa will make a post saying how I well I seem etc. Anyone can seem well over the net. Anyone can seem unwell. I am the latter and I am not lying. It's how I feel and felt for a long time.
Posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 14:20:32
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » maxime, posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 0:50:47
> > Sigh. I feel sad.
>
> That's understandable.
>
> However, a great many of us were sad for years that you were struggling with severe, unremitting depression without relief, despite your earnest search for an effective treatment.
>
>
> - ScottThanks Scott. See post above to Morgan.
Posted by morgan miller on October 31, 2010, at 14:27:48
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » morgan miller, posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 14:18:54
>
> >
> > So why are you sad to be on meds if you were doing so badly off them? If you can find meds that work and don't cause weight gain or other unwanted side effects, you'll be doing o.k. Your psychiatrist is still for medication, he's a psychiatrist. I totally understand why he wants you to stay on the medications you are on now, with the exception of Nortriptyline. Severe depression will cause way more damage and interference than most medications will.
>
> Because I am taking more meds that I can fit into my hands and I sitll feel like sh*t. I still cry in the bathroom at work. I cry at night. My body hurts everywhere and I can't miss any work. Why do I want to keep put putting these chemicals in me? Sure, I am doing better on them that off them but I am not doing that great. And the side effects. It seems like I will never get rid of the side effects unless I take another med which will no doubt cause more side effects and so on.
>
> To be honest Morgan ... I WANT TO DIE. That is what all this b*llsh*t sums up to. I want to die. And not the type of dying where you wake up in some hospital room. The kind where they have a funeral for you.
>
> Then Phillipa will make a post saying how I well I seem etc. Anyone can seem well over the net. Anyone can seem unwell. I am the latter and I am not lying. It's how I feel and felt for a long time.I'm really sorry you are still hurting so badly. Hopefully in time you will only be taking 2 or 3 medications at the most and you will at least feel 70 percent better.
Hang in there,
Morgan
Posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2010, at 14:54:42
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » morgan miller, posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 14:18:54
First, hugs Maxime. That is if you could stand them right now.
Honestly, to have pain heaped on top of mental illness....
It's an insult, an absolute last straw.
Maxime, does your pdoc know about the pain? It needs to be treated. It really does.
And I know something about your pain. So do others. We're listening. I am, and I'm not the only one.
For some reason, there is something worthwhile enough to keep you here--whatever it, God bless it. I care about
you. If you keep trying, I'll be pulling, and I won't be alone.Whenever you get angry and need to shake a fist at someone, IMHO God can take it. As for you, you've had enough. Give yourself the break you give others. If this pain is new bad news, there are others here to help with that.
Medication did not cause my pain, despite what some posters have the right to believe. Nor do I think (IMHO) it is causing yours. Stress, depression, fatigue, genetics. But not you. And not your medication.
Oh dear, please be kind to you.
Posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 15:23:30
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » morgan miller, posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 14:18:54
> I WANT TO DIE.
What stops you?
- Scott
Posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 15:28:13
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » maxime, posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2010, at 14:54:42
Thank you for the hugs, I needed them.
I told my pdoc about the pain and how bad it was. I told him that it got worse after I removed the Notrip. and he said that can happen. He said it as if it were so normal for me to have all this pain.
I told my endo and her response was "lose some of the weight". As if that were the answer to everything.
I am really confused because I have had depression for years and years and I never had this kind of physical pain.
Great now I am crying.
I don't know which doctor is supposed to help me. I spoke to my GP as well but she didn't really respond to my problem. So who do I go to? There aren't enough doctors in Montreal to jump around and find the right one and I don't which one is the right one. I thought it would be my pdoc because there is no rhyme or reason as to why I am feeling this way. Then I thought, no it would be my endo because I have thyroid problems and maybe it has to do with that. Then I thought, no I should see my GP. I can't say for sure, but I think they think I am drug seeking. I am not. I am answer seeking and I am frustrated. And when I am frustrated I cry ... A LOT. That's where I am today.
Thank you for your kind words. I needed them.
> First, hugs Maxime. That is if you could stand them right now.
>
> Honestly, to have pain heaped on top of mental illness....
>
> It's an insult, an absolute last straw.
>
> Maxime, does your pdoc know about the pain? It needs to be treated. It really does.
>
> And I know something about your pain. So do others. We're listening. I am, and I'm not the only one.
>
> For some reason, there is something worthwhile enough to keep you here--whatever it, God bless it. I care about
> you. If you keep trying, I'll be pulling, and I won't be alone.
>
> Whenever you get angry and need to shake a fist at someone, IMHO God can take it. As for you, you've had enough. Give yourself the break you give others. If this pain is new bad news, there are others here to help with that.
>
> Medication did not cause my pain, despite what some posters have the right to believe. Nor do I think (IMHO) it is causing yours. Stress, depression, fatigue, genetics. But not you. And not your medication.
>
> Oh dear, please be kind to you.
Posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 15:49:06
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » maxime, posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 15:23:30
> > I WANT TO DIE.
>
> What stops you?
>
>
> - ScottJust my mom. She needs help because she has Alzheimers. I wasn't here my brother would put her in a home and she doesn't need that yet .... but she wouldn't be able to live here on her own.
I spend a lot of my time helping her. Even when at work I have to phone her 4 times a day to make sure she isn't in trouble. Then I have I to make sure I come home at the right time because she needs/wants her supper and she can't use the stove or oven. So I have to come home and make her dinner. I can never be bothered to make one for myself because I feel so DEAD. At night I have to plan the next day's lessons for my classes. Walk the dog. Spend a little time on the computer. Spend some time with my mom. Make sure my mom has taken her meds. Get something for her to her to wear the next day. Make her lunch for the next day. Then I fall into bed and I cry. I wake up, and it's time to start my day all over again.
You are probably wondering why I don't get help. I don't get help because I can't afford it. My brother is in charge of my mom's finances and he will not use any to pay for extra care. He figures that since I don't have a partner and that I live alone with my mom that I can take care of everything.
Posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 16:22:11
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » SLS, posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 15:49:06
Dear Maxime,
When I grow up, I want to be just like you.
:-)
You really are something special to take on such responsibilities as to care for your mother against such odds when you barely have enough resources to take care of yourself.
Gosh. You really are special.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2010, at 17:20:22
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » maxime, posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 16:22:11
Scott,
You're usually such a straight shot. I'm confused by this post.
Posted by SLS on October 31, 2010, at 18:25:19
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on October 31, 2010, at 17:20:22
> Scott,
>
> You're usually such a straight shot. I'm confused by this post.I forget sometimes that some people take the word "gosh" as sarcasm. I guess it is a bit anachronistic. Is that what you find confusing? I was sincere in my admiration of Maxime.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 1, 2010, at 5:19:44
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » SLS, posted by maxime on October 31, 2010, at 15:49:06
Hi Maxime.
Were you confused by my post to you? If so, I am confused as to why it might be taken as sarcasm or having an otherwise negative connotation.
Well, anyway...
I hope you realize that my admiration of you is authentic and sincere.
- Scott
> Dear Maxime,
>
> When I grow up, I want to be just like you.
>
> :-)
>
> You really are something special to take on such responsibilities as to care for your mother against such odds when you barely have enough resources to take care of yourself.
>
> Gosh. You really are special.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Maxime on November 1, 2010, at 8:06:19
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » maxime, posted by SLS on November 1, 2010, at 5:19:44
Hi Scott, I was confused but only because I read the first part about you wanting to grow up to be like me. It seemed like an odd comment. If I had scrolled down, I would not have been so confused.
No worries. I have never known you to say a bad word about anyone on this board so why would you start now?
Posted by floatingbridge on November 1, 2010, at 11:18:32
In reply to Re: Thinking of coming off meds NO WAY! » SLS, posted by Maxime on November 1, 2010, at 8:06:19
Hi Scott and Maxime,
Maybe it was the combination of when I grow up, plus the gosh. So I really was confused because I agree w/ Maxime that I haven't heard a sarcastic comment or sentiment from Scott before. Deeply ironic and with wit (not witty), yes. Hurtful or counterproductive, no.
My apologies, please. My bad day turned into a weekend. And I also grew up with alot of sarcasm--. Call it my Halloween flash-back weekend. Sigh.
I really like both of you.
fb
This is the end of the thread.
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