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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
Hi to everyone!
From someone who used to exercise regularly and go walking and running. Always very energetic and ready to go.
Now, I have no energy whatsoever. Don't have the energy to clean or hardly move. Tried to walk on treadmill yesterday and it totally wore me out. I want to go places, but feel like the energy is not there to even attempt it (also agoraphobia to even get out.)
I know that anxiety and depression can cause you to loose motivation, but is it really supposed to be this bad?
Had blood work done last August and everything was O.K. This is one of the problems causing me to believe I must be dying of something. Just can't understand why I feel so zapped.
Has anyone else gotten fatigued this badly?
Posted by garnet71 on April 16, 2009, at 13:25:50
In reply to Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
Yes, anxiety sucks the energy out of you. Your body has to do a lot of work to keep you in a state of fight or flight for extended time periods. Every organ in your body ends up being under distress. How would you expect your sytem to function in that state when its only 'meant' to be temporary?
The same thing happened to me when I went untreated, having anxiety 24/7. Yeah, and a lot of people who have this problem continually think there is something medically wrong with them physically-diseases and stuff like that. (As I've been told by therapists/doctors). That is also why people with anxiety tend to get symptoms dismissed by doctors to, btw. But of course that doesn't mean that someone with anxiety doesn't have major medical problems as well. If you do have medical problems with a history of chronic anxiety, your more likely to be underdiagnosed, imo.
Posted by garnet71 on April 16, 2009, at 13:31:28
In reply to Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
yeah, forgot to say, it can make you too exhausted to even sleep. What you are experiencing sounds perfectly normal to me, in the case of chronic anxiety, just from personal experience.
Posted by raisinb on April 16, 2009, at 13:46:14
In reply to Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
What meds are you on (if any?) A lot of psych meds can cause fatigue and muscle weakness.
Posted by Zana on April 16, 2009, at 15:07:02
In reply to Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
When I was in the worst part of my last depression I felt like I had lost myself completely. I felt like a pale, ghostlike imitation of myself. It's hard to explain. But I had no energy, didn't smile or laugh for well over a year, wept daily, couldn't go anywhere except to therapy. My new pdoc says that she thinks major depression includes a kind of thought disorder and I think she's right. It's not like a psychotic thought disorder but my brain felt numbed, dulled. And all of my thoughts were black, completely negative. They all felt right and rational but there was no room for anything positive or hopeful or even fun.
I think a major depressive episode is different from just being depressed. I've been depressed for years. But this, which started about 18 months ago, was something different. It was like a switch was thrown in my head. And it felt really bad and exhausting and totally consuming.
I hope you are not feeling that badly. But what you are describing sounds completely "normal" for someone suffering from anxiety and depression.
A good physical is not a bad idea. Are you in therapy? Do you have a good pdoc? You really have to fight back as much as you can. Every little bit of effort to take care of yourself will help. And reaching out to the Babble community is a great idea.
Take care.
Zana
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2009, at 16:54:50
In reply to Re: Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Zana on April 16, 2009, at 15:07:02
Same thing my pdoc said to me is the reason I'm so tired is the anxiety drains all energy. What are taking for the anxiety. For many years benzos worked great for me not working well and making me more tired so cutting down on them very slowly. Love Phillipa
Posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 18:32:25
In reply to Re: Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Zana on April 16, 2009, at 15:07:02
Thanks for the responses.
It started out initially as extreme anxiety, but I think that it has led into depression also. When it was just anxiety, I was just trying to figure out ways to get past that. I was always a happy and energetic person, a little anxietal at times,(my hubby says a little neurotic) but not depressed. Now the anxiety turned into a full blown fear. (Constant flight or fright mode for over a year) At least then I was still optimistic, but now I'm afraid it's going into what Zana is talking about.
Just feeling helpless and hopeless. I can see now how the anxiety blew into fear, but I don't understand how I lost the WANT to want to do things. Like I haven't lost my lust for life. It's still there, I just can't get it. I want to go out of the house and do things, but my body and mind seems like it is in constant fear even though it is frustrating as hell.
Even now I'm sitting here writing a list of things for my husband to go and get at the grocery store. It feels so stupid.
You described it exactly Zana. It's like someone threw a switch one day and then my whole world turned around. It started with the anxiety first, because I was still able to go places O.K. and then the depression has set in because of the inability to get past the anxieties. I promised myself that I wouldn't let myself get depressed, but over the last couple of weeks, its been like what Zana described. All thoughts are black, completely negative. I used to think that I couldn't do anything to myself because I love my kids and hubby to much and wouldn't want to scar their lives that way, but now other thoughts are slowly starting to creep in. Thinking now that they don't need a mom like this and that they would be o.k. if I wasn't here. That the way I am right now is not fair to them. (These are just thoughts, I just can't believe how negative they have all turned.)
People say go and start working out again. It's hard to explain, but my mind will kind of feel the old urges I used to have and how great it felt when I had a great work out, but then there is this other feeling of such strong apprehension and it seems so exhausting. My motivation is completely gone. I did make myslef get on my treadmill yesterday and just do a slow walk for about 30 minutes and listened to my i-pod. I felt more anxietal about an hour afterwards. What the hell was that? I USED TO BE SO MOTIVATED! YOU COULDN'T KEEP ME IN THE HOUSE.
The whole feeling like I'm dying or something is wrong is because I feel so weak and nauseous all the time and it consumes my thoughts. Wish it would just shut up. And then I see people post here about how anxiety and depression kills you sooner. (That really helps)!
As far as meds go, I seem to be very sensitive. (Just had an allergic reaction on my second go round with Zoloft) I have been on most all ssris, haven't seen really good reviews on snri's for anxiety, remeron, seroquel (which probably would have helped, but I can't reach a theraputic dose with out bad side effects), trazadone, valium, the only benzo that helps for maybe an hour or two is xanax and I refuse to go on a higher dosage because I don't want to become addicted. So I'll sit here and shake all day. None of the other benzos put a dent in them. Don't know if beta-blockers would be worth a shot as from what I've read they bring down adrenaline, but probably they are contradictory with MAOI. My anxiety is really extreme from what I can tell. The only ne else I have considered is Lamictal, but will try the maoi first.
I tried CBT. For me, that was pretty much a joke. I am now in NBT (Neurolinguistic Behavior Therapy) and Time-line Therapy. I will be starting on Nardil (thanks to myco) around April 24th. I'm just taking small dosages of seroquel and xanax to keep me halfway stable until I start the Nardil (Pray that it works.)
I just feel if I can get past this extreme fear and anxiety, then I can fix the depression part. If I can get back out of the house and back into my normal routine. I wasn't depressed before. I have severe reactions to ssris, so I'm wondering if its even a seratonin thing. Maybe its more dopamine. I don't know anymore. Some of the talks on here get way to in depth as far as receptors, neurotransmitters, gaba, seratonin, dopamine, mao-a and mao-b, etc. I don't need all that. I just want to fix this crap.
I just need to find a med to give me a little push and then I think once I'm not so afraid of everything, I can pull myself out of this. I look outside on a beautiful day and I WANT to go and walk, but can't seem to get my *ss out and do it. Why? Does that make sense to anyone else?
It's amazing to me how much this has spiraled out of control. I have a good pdoc. He listens, but I think he is at a lost also. I try not to think negative about the meds, so I am trying to stay positive about the Nardil. I have to admit, I sit here on the computer obsessed with trying to find something that might work.
I know that I am also in adrenal fatigue and am currently trying to fix that. I'm stressing right now because I want another chest x-ray, but my husband refuses to pay for another one. I smoked for like 30 years and quit about 6 months ago. I had a chest x-ray about a year ago which showed up clear, but I just want one more to make sure something hasn't shown up since (Crazy huh?)
Zana, please tell me your days are getting better. What meds are you taking?
Everyone here is great and I have come to love you all dearly. If I miss a day checking in here, I feel like I haven't talked to my family that day. I just wish for all of us, there was a simpler way to fix things.
Hugs to all.
Courtney
Posted by garnet71 on April 16, 2009, at 20:26:45
In reply to Re: Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 18:32:25
Courtney,
I just wanted to add a quick note to what you just said - when I had untreated anxiety for months and was prescribed Ativan, the first day I took it - it made me so happy and I had a burst of energy and motivation.Of course I went to Zoloft, which ruined it. Though I won't take benzos long term either, that's not the point. My point is, the relief from anxiety was an antidepressant in itself. And it was immediate.
I hope you experience the same thing when you find relief from your anxiety.
I really hope the Nardil works out for you!!! Hang in there!!! :-)
Posted by Phillipa on April 16, 2009, at 20:36:41
In reply to Re: Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad? » Cseagraves, posted by garnet71 on April 16, 2009, at 20:26:45
Found the same thing myself and the SSRI effects. Trying to fight it though I have to too old for MAOI's. Good luck Courtney. keep us posted
Posted by Zana on April 17, 2009, at 8:58:45
In reply to Re: Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 18:32:25
Miraculously, my days are getting better. Pristiq has made a big difference which is surprising since it's a buffed up Effexor and I bombed on
effexor and every other SSRI.
I really think you need to find a pdoc and find some meds that work for you. Like Scott has said to me, the better the records you can keep, reconstruct or get from previous providers the better. You need to find someone who is really invested in this complicated puzzle- your depression. My pdoc's have always seen my anxiety as a symptom of my depression. I don't know if that is true or if it matters. But you may find that if your depression is treated you feel less anxious. Or you may need to do what I do which is take meds that are "uppers" and meds that are "downers"
Right now I am taking a real stew and I have really mixed feeling about being on so many meds. Bottom line- I am feeling better.
I am taking:
45mg Remeron for sleep
3 mgs klonopin 2 at night 1 first thing in the am
50 mgs pristiq a SSRI/SNRI AD
75ish mgs provigil I break pieces off a 200 mg tab over the day
600-800 mgs gabapentin to take the edge off the provigil
300 mgs seroquel originally had mild AD effect it's the med I would most like to get off. I think it makes me shakey and has bad long term side effects like diabeties.That's what my meds have looked like for the past couple of years, more than that. I hate being on meds and I'm sure some combos have made me worse not better. But I am also sure that without meds I be dead or at least wish I were. I used to take great comfort lying in bed and imaging various suicide senerios. Boy was I bummed when I realized that the amount of klonopin I had squirreled away was no where near a lethal dose.
Get some good regular talk therapy. My bias is Self psychology. That's what's worked for me. I am seeing the same man I saw in graduate school, over 20 yrs ago. At that time I was bulimic and had seen lots of people who didn't help me and tried meds. He cured me. Tragically over the next twenty years I never thought of going back--it' a long story which I would be happy to tell you. But I'm seeing him again and it's helping. I really believe you need someone long term who's really in there fighting with you and keeping the faith and hope alive when you can't
You need to be as active as you can about getting help. Do you feel like you can find a really good pdoc? Get a consult from someone who's highly respected. It's harder to find a good fit with a therapist.Are there any training institutes where you live? There faculty is a good place to start.
I have to go to therapy. I'll check for a reply when I get back.Zana
Posted by polarbear206 on April 17, 2009, at 12:55:28
In reply to Re: Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 18:32:25
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> It started out initially as extreme anxiety, but I think that it has led into depression also. When it was just anxiety, I was just trying to figure out ways to get past that. I was always a happy and energetic person, a little anxietal at times,(my hubby says a little neurotic) but not depressed. Now the anxiety turned into a full blown fear. (Constant flight or fright mode for over a year) At least then I was still optimistic, but now I'm afraid it's going into what Zana is talking about.
>
> Just feeling helpless and hopeless. I can see now how the anxiety blew into fear, but I don't understand how I lost the WANT to want to do things. Like I haven't lost my lust for life. It's still there, I just can't get it. I want to go out of the house and do things, but my body and mind seems like it is in constant fear even though it is frustrating as hell.
>
> Even now I'm sitting here writing a list of things for my husband to go and get at the grocery store. It feels so stupid.
>
> You described it exactly Zana. It's like someone threw a switch one day and then my whole world turned around. It started with the anxiety first, because I was still able to go places O.K. and then the depression has set in because of the inability to get past the anxieties. I promised myself that I wouldn't let myself get depressed, but over the last couple of weeks, its been like what Zana described. All thoughts are black, completely negative. I used to think that I couldn't do anything to myself because I love my kids and hubby to much and wouldn't want to scar their lives that way, but now other thoughts are slowly starting to creep in. Thinking now that they don't need a mom like this and that they would be o.k. if I wasn't here. That the way I am right now is not fair to them. (These are just thoughts, I just can't believe how negative they have all turned.)
>
> People say go and start working out again. It's hard to explain, but my mind will kind of feel the old urges I used to have and how great it felt when I had a great work out, but then there is this other feeling of such strong apprehension and it seems so exhausting. My motivation is completely gone. I did make myslef get on my treadmill yesterday and just do a slow walk for about 30 minutes and listened to my i-pod. I felt more anxietal about an hour afterwards. What the hell was that? I USED TO BE SO MOTIVATED! YOU COULDN'T KEEP ME IN THE HOUSE.
>
> The whole feeling like I'm dying or something is wrong is because I feel so weak and nauseous all the time and it consumes my thoughts. Wish it would just shut up. And then I see people post here about how anxiety and depression kills you sooner. (That really helps)!
>
> As far as meds go, I seem to be very sensitive. (Just had an allergic reaction on my second go round with Zoloft) I have been on most all ssris, haven't seen really good reviews on snri's for anxiety, remeron, seroquel (which probably would have helped, but I can't reach a theraputic dose with out bad side effects), trazadone, valium, the only benzo that helps for maybe an hour or two is xanax and I refuse to go on a higher dosage because I don't want to become addicted. So I'll sit here and shake all day. None of the other benzos put a dent in them. Don't know if beta-blockers would be worth a shot as from what I've read they bring down adrenaline, but probably they are contradictory with MAOI. My anxiety is really extreme from what I can tell. The only ne else I have considered is Lamictal, but will try the maoi first.
>
> I tried CBT. For me, that was pretty much a joke. I am now in NBT (Neurolinguistic Behavior Therapy) and Time-line Therapy. I will be starting on Nardil (thanks to myco) around April 24th. I'm just taking small dosages of seroquel and xanax to keep me halfway stable until I start the Nardil (Pray that it works.)
>
> I just feel if I can get past this extreme fear and anxiety, then I can fix the depression part. If I can get back out of the house and back into my normal routine. I wasn't depressed before. I have severe reactions to ssris, so I'm wondering if its even a seratonin thing. Maybe its more dopamine. I don't know anymore. Some of the talks on here get way to in depth as far as receptors, neurotransmitters, gaba, seratonin, dopamine, mao-a and mao-b, etc. I don't need all that. I just want to fix this crap.
>
> I just need to find a med to give me a little push and then I think once I'm not so afraid of everything, I can pull myself out of this. I look outside on a beautiful day and I WANT to go and walk, but can't seem to get my *ss out and do it. Why? Does that make sense to anyone else?
>
> It's amazing to me how much this has spiraled out of control. I have a good pdoc. He listens, but I think he is at a lost also. I try not to think negative about the meds, so I am trying to stay positive about the Nardil. I have to admit, I sit here on the computer obsessed with trying to find something that might work.
>
> I know that I am also in adrenal fatigue and am currently trying to fix that. I'm stressing right now because I want another chest x-ray, but my husband refuses to pay for another one. I smoked for like 30 years and quit about 6 months ago. I had a chest x-ray about a year ago which showed up clear, but I just want one more to make sure something hasn't shown up since (Crazy huh?)
>
> Zana, please tell me your days are getting better. What meds are you taking?
>
> Everyone here is great and I have come to love you all dearly. If I miss a day checking in here, I feel like I haven't talked to my family that day. I just wish for all of us, there was a simpler way to fix things.
>
> Hugs to all.
>
> CourtneyCourtney,
I think there might be something else here going on. You may need a mood stablizer for the AD to work for you. I take lamictal and it has worked wonders for me. I also take effexor with it.
Posted by manic666 on April 23, 2009, at 13:33:58
In reply to Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
anxierty you are thin, full off energy ,till it floors you . but with ad,s you a bag of sh*t fat an sluggy
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on April 25, 2009, at 10:54:10
In reply to Anxiety and Depression cause you to feel this bad?, posted by Cseagraves on April 16, 2009, at 13:08:54
Courtney, I just read your post and thought you were talking about ME! I was anxious all my life. I used alcohol and dexedrine for years to self-medicate. I was a high achiever, very active (yes d/r,great skier) until dexedrine turned on me, and then quit alcohol (thank you A.A.). I fell into the worst deep black slimy hole you can imagine. I was like in a coma. never slept but never awake, could barely speak, couldn't even watch tv, it didn't make sense; couldn't read, just wanted to kill myself but was too confused to do it. I, also, felt my kids would be better off without me. I didn't go to the dr. or even leave the house but a few times for TWO YEARS. My husband was a bad alcoholic, became unable to work, and just lurched around the house. And none of our neighbors or our kids really knew what was happening. I finally made it to the dr (Kaiser) and got a little treatment, but not much. I've gotten some better over the years bit by bit. I have a pretty good pdoc at Kaiser now. Now I'm chronic and treatment resisent. I can't take any of the ss's; migraines and no balance. Benzos and anything like remeron make me so sleepy and foggy the next day it isn't worth it. Lithium did nothing. About the only thing I can tolerate is Wellbutrin. I don't have any side effects from it but it only takes a bit of the depression away. The tricyclics make me so sleepy and hungry I can't stand it. Lamictal triggered my Rheumatoid Arthritis so bad (and FAST) that I couldn't walk. So next week I am going on Parnate with amytriptiline. I have read a lot of really positive things about Parnate on this board and "ask a patient and revolution-health that I am really excited and hopeful to start it! I would really love to have a few years of feeling normal before Im too old to care (or know)! I hope your docs can help you ASAP so you don't get "chronic" like I am. Boy do I ever know how you feel! Take care, Gayle
Posted by desolationrower on April 27, 2009, at 0:14:05
In reply to Re: WORSE!!, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on April 25, 2009, at 10:54:10
i found wellbutrin benign (although not very beneficial either) after not tolerating sris. which TCAs did you try? if parnate doesn't work, might want to try desipramine. and SAMe could help with both depression and arthritis (hm i looked some more and nothingn says it helps with rheumatoid, just osteo. do you take methotrexone or something like that, i keep seeing that nad somethign about folate. and folate is important with depression. many causes of arthritis would be bad for depression too. kind of thinking with my fingers here. did wellbutrin hlep the arthritis?). anyway, why amytriptaline? for sleep? if it doesn't work other options might be better
-d/r
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on April 29, 2009, at 21:52:09
In reply to Re: WORSE!!, posted by desolationrower on April 27, 2009, at 0:14:05
I'm thankful for Wellbutrin because it has worked for me for quite a few years, if only partially, with absolutely no side effects. I am on Plaquinel for R.A. My rheumatologist wants me to go on Methotrexate but I'm not ready for that. If I'm good about exercising, especially aqua aerobics, I can usually manage it. Some chemicals like MSG and other food additives really trigger my R.A. but the exacerbations don't last but a couple of days. I don't know if the Wellbutrin helps my R.A. but it doesn't trigger it like the Lamictal did. My p-doc thinks Parnate with a TCA is a good combo. I'm on the amytriptaline in hopes I wont have insomnia. I'll start Parnate tomorrow or Friday (8 or 9 days off Wellbutrin). I'm wondering if 14 days would be better?
I am starting on 10mg but have a note in to my doc to see if I can start on 5mg, but vaguely remember someone saying not to cut a parnate pill? I'm psyched to start it and really hopeful it will work for me! Thanks for your response! Gayle
Posted by desolationrower on April 30, 2009, at 1:29:39
In reply to Re: WORSE!!, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on April 29, 2009, at 21:52:09
parnate has a short half life (effect on MAO is quite long-lived though) so splitting it won't make much difference. i might just wait a few more days and start with 10mg. it works really well for me, hope you find the same.
ok, i looked a bit more at the rh.arth. drugs. some might worsen depression, but there are some that are TNFalpha inhibitors (bupropion reduces this, and this might be part of how it owrks) that might be helpful to try (though they sound like they're all very expensive - maybe some aren't, or if they are, there are 'natural' options, like curcumin or resveratrol maybe. i'd have to check if those are ok with MAOIs. oh and caffiene too, maybe green tea polyphenols.). hm just rembered something about parasympathetic system and tnf-alpha; something to keep in mind if amytriptaline wrosens your arthritis.
-d/r
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