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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 66. Go back in thread:
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 18, 2008, at 18:51:19
In reply to Anxiety sweat, posted by Dinah on November 16, 2008, at 13:46:18
> I did some research a while back and discovered that yes, the chemicals released during panic do have a distinctive odor. You really can smell fear. I'd noticed that my clothing after a panic attack really reeked, and I just couldn't leave them in the hamper without washing them.
>
> But they didn't really talk about how it feels. I've often said that it feels like my skin is burning. But since developing a liking for peppermint soap, I notice the feeling isn't dissimilar. Anxiety sweat seems to me to feel like peppermint soap. There's a burning or tingling to it. I also know that after a particularly stressful time at work my body really reacts badly. As a diabetic, I get irritations under my arms or in other places like that. They get really really bad during stressful times. Almost like my sweat is an irritant to my skin.
>
> Am I nuts or is it possible that the chemicals involved do that as well? Could that be part of what a cold sweat means? Because the tingling or burning does have a cold feel to it. Again, like peppermint.
>
> Or I could be totally nuts.After taking many AD's, alcohol and Paxil caused a horrible smell to come from me, esp sweat when it was hot out. I had been on paxil before but for some reason the last time my metabolism must have changed or something. I quit paxil and the smell stopped. I ve heard this happen with some other ad's. When I started Nardil it smelled as well, embarrasing to say the least. Im on Parnate now but I cant seem to change my name at the moment...
Posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 16:13:17
In reply to Re: Anxiety sweat » Dinah, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 18, 2008, at 18:51:19
Could I jump in real quick and ask you "Nardil started 2007", how long Nardil worked for you, why you switched to Parnate, how long on Parnate, do you augment, and last but not least, is it working for you?
I've been on Parnate for a month, full remission during 2nd week, BP problem, still taking it and waiting for better response. Mood's OK but ZERO energy. Will it come? Should I add something? Diagnosis Atyp/Tr MDD.
Thanks for ANY response,
~Jade
Hope its ok I jumped in for a sec Dinah!
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 20, 2008, at 3:25:06
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 16:13:17
> Could I jump in real quick and ask you "Nardil started 2007", how long Nardil worked for you, why you switched to Parnate, how long on Parnate, do you augment, and last but not least, is it working for you?
>
> I've been on Parnate for a month, full remission during 2nd week, BP problem, still taking it and waiting for better response. Mood's OK but ZERO energy. Will it come? Should I add something? Diagnosis Atyp/Tr MDD.
>
> Thanks for ANY response,
>
> ~Jade
>
> Hope its ok I jumped in for a sec Dinah!
>Hi! I was on Nardil with 2 mg's xanax for 1 year. yes it was nasry at first but then i stabilized fine. I started at 75mg/day (i know that was nuts). It worked a little little bit (I have SP and they say Bipolar2..) sexual SE's were tolerable but I coulnt get Nardil to kick in like others have. tried 90mgs/day with lithium to augment and xanax. I was hospitalized at the time on my own decision to work it out. Once the Nardil90mgs and Lithium 1025, things lifted and i was happy and able to talk and finaly have confidence, it was great!
I started getting fat, added 40lbs from nardil and i know Lith also adds weight. i was doing great for a month maybe and then it was no good. Anx came back(sex sucks for me at 90 mgs and never got better. If I had a drink the Nardil would really kick in. I went to 105mg/day-nothing. I imagine if I was at 150mgs/day it might work. but the Side effects weret worth it to try that high.
Too many SE's but less then Ssris
Parnate (no weight gain, positive sexually) i have been on for maybe 4 months aswell as Lamictal instead of Lithium because it has no side effects(weight gain) as a mood stabilizer.
I have switched to clonazepam and am getting off benzoz! Most people including me find the lower doses <60 dont help to many with anxiety but a great energizing AD ( Maybe you should switch dosing times so when the parnate maakes you tired its bed time anyway. different for every one) im trying all of my 60mg in the morning. for me parnste is just showing its good effects at 60, I think i need 70 - 80 some day. Well I have no side effects but insomnia and increased lebito. I just need more and sleeping pills. If I take parnate in the morning i get tired in the afternoon (very common). Im trying all at 6am now to see how that works, then ill try dosing before bedtime.I wrote alot of jibber jabber there.
It can take 8 weeks to kick in but the speedy feeling from NE and Epinephrin should be right away.I wouldnt augment unless the drug works but you just cant go higher. Lamictal/lithium/provigil and other stimulants might be a good choice.
Personally i think i FINALLY found the right drug, just need another 10mgs i think.
Take care ttyl8ter
How much to you take?
for how long?
on anything else?
what are you diagnosed with ? ( I couldnt quite get it lol.
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2008, at 8:25:05
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 19, 2008, at 16:13:17
Of course it's ok! I've always enjoyed threads taking twists and turns. :)
Posted by Dinah on November 20, 2008, at 8:41:31
In reply to Re: Anxiety sweat » Dinah, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 18, 2008, at 18:51:19
I'm trying to remember scent differences with medication. It certainly does make sense. I think I've heard that what we eat can change our scent.
I was a bit surprised to see the amount of research being done. I suppose I shouldn't be, since the practical applications of scent have already been shown.
Posted by JadeKelly on November 20, 2008, at 18:53:24
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 20, 2008, at 3:25:06
Hi tty18er/Nardil2007!
Thanks for the response. Maybe you can help me!
I take 30mg Parnate, little over month (couple days off, ht crises day 11). 5-6 days after start, week long unbelievable response; was that NE Epinephrine? How can I get that back?! Is there an A/D or augment of some kind that would cause me to respond that way again? I felt outstanding. Not euphoric, but my old self, in a really good mood. Then it kinda faded, and is now sorta transient, and I'm tired and dizzy alot. I def want to keep taking it cause MAOI'S are the ONLY thing that have touched this depression.I take Klonopin, too, for nerve pain but I want to taper off that. I just don't want to confuse w/d's with s/e's, etc.
Oh, I'm diagnosed with Aty/TR MDD (major depression). 2 1/2 yrs ago it started after a multitute of personal tragedies hit me too close together. I just shut down, went numb, and can't find my way back. Never had one before. Help! I need to get back to my life. Its been too long! So you think 8 weeks on Parnate? What is the response like then?
Thanks again, for ANY HELP!
~Jade
PS-why do you think alcohol brought out the A/D effect in you?
~Jade
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 25, 2008, at 14:41:53
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 20, 2008, at 18:53:24
> Hi tty18er/Nardil2007!
>
> Thanks for the response. Maybe you can help me!
> I take 30mg Parnate, little over month (couple days off, ht crises day 11). 5-6 days after start, week long unbelievable response; was that NE Epinephrine? How can I get that back?! Is there an A/D or augment of some kind that would cause me to respond that way again? I felt outstanding. Not euphoric, but my old self, in a really good mood. Then it kinda faded, and is now sorta transient, and I'm tired and dizzy alot. I def want to keep taking it cause MAOI'S are the ONLY thing that have touched this depression.
>
> I take Klonopin, too, for nerve pain but I want to taper off that. I just don't want to confuse w/d's with s/e's, etc.
>
> Oh, I'm diagnosed with Aty/TR MDD (major depression). 2 1/2 yrs ago it started after a multitute of personal tragedies hit me too close together. I just shut down, went numb, and can't find my way back. Never had one before. Help! I need to get back to my life. Its been too long! So you think 8 weeks on Parnate? What is the response like then?
>
> Thanks again, for ANY HELP!
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS-why do you think alcohol brought out the A/D effect in you?
>
>
>
> ~Jade
>HI. Yes Thats EXACTLY how Parnate works for almost everyone! When you start you get this massive kick from NE and Epinephrine that makes you feel great for a few weeks or a few days then goes away as your body adjusts to an equilibrium. Every time I increase my dosage by 10 mg I get/got 2-3 days of that great feeling then gone. once I hit 60 mg the same thing happened but then after about 4 weeks at 60mg the antidepressant effect kicked in and it does not go away. I find it anxiolytic too. When I drunk before it was working the alcohole made it work.. i dont know why but alcohol did that with ALL my previous AD's like ssris that didnt work. if im not on a AD alcohol doesnt affect me like that. One thing im noticing on parnate is that during the morning or till early afternoon I am extreamly sensitive and caring and emotional.. I could cry at any second about anything (good things, bad things, cute things, etc) weird. by late day im ok. Once you find the dose for you it will be some time before you feel it work after the initial kick.. At least thats what happened to me,
sincerely NardilStarted2007
Posted by JadeKelly on November 25, 2008, at 15:23:04
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 25, 2008, at 14:41:53
Nardil2007,
One more thing, then promise to leave you alone!! What does the A/D effect feel like? The initial great me feeling or something else?
~Jade
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 25, 2008, at 19:49:49
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 25, 2008, at 15:23:04
> Nardil2007,
>
> One more thing, then promise to leave you alone!! What does the A/D effect feel like? The initial great me feeling or something else?
>
> ~Jade
>
>hey.. no please dont leave me alone lol.. im so glad to talk about this to someone in my shoes, or close to them...
I dont feel that the Initial effects of NE and epinephrine feel at all like the AD effects. I wish it felt the same, but to me its a definate difference. BUT at least Parnate works once it actually kicks in long term. Like I was saying I now feel really emotional in the mornings and just great in the afternoon. I laugh, I feel good and best of all it seems to have no side effects except Insomnia, INCREASE sex drive, weight loss (minor)and ....... thats it! I hope I can keep talking to you as you figure out your Parnate. Im only a few month on it too so Id like to tell you how im doing. You said you had a bad time after 30mg and it was a complete mess.. Can you explain more what bad effects you had after the good feeling ? Thanks, Your friend Phil
Posted by JadeKelly on November 25, 2008, at 22:52:21
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 25, 2008, at 19:49:49
> > Nardil2007,
> >
> > One more thing, then promise to leave you alone!! What does the A/D effect feel like? The initial great me feeling or something else?
> >
> > ~Jade
> >
> >
>
> hey.. no please dont leave me alone lol.. im so glad to talk about this to someone in my shoes, or close to them...
> I dont feel that the Initial effects of NE and epinephrine feel at all like the AD effects. I wish it felt the same, but to me its a definate difference. BUT at least Parnate works once it actually kicks in long term. Like I was saying I now feel really emotional in the mornings and just great in the afternoon. I laugh, I feel good and best of all it seems to have no side effects except Insomnia, INCREASE sex drive, weight loss (minor)and ....... thats it! I hope I can keep talking to you as you figure out your Parnate. Im only a few month on it too so Id like to tell you how im doing. You said you had a bad time after 30mg and it was a complete mess.. Can you explain more what bad effects you had after the good feeling ? Thanks, Your friend PhilHaha, are you kidding me? While I've been on Parnate I haven't found anyone who could give me the entire story. Also, it gets a little lonely, doesn't it? Nobody knowing what it feels like? I was really glad to hear back from you cause now I'll know I have some weeks ahead of me. And what to expect. And maybe someone to talk to who's been there I was starting to lose the faith!
Um, about the mess, I geuss you mean the hypertensive thing. I had just had that unbelievable week, like my old self in a really good mood. It was my 11th day and woke up with a headache I cant describe. Did the hospital thing, etc., then it happened the next two days. I stayed at home for those and watched my BP, freaking the whole time, but both times it went back down. Doc wrote script for daily antidote till next appt. Never happened again. Think I was adjusting to med is all I can figure.
You may have all this, but I would really reccomend getting a BP monitor, so if you start feelin wierd you'll know if its BP related. Also, if you haven't, def get the antidote and keep some with you and some at home. Mine is Nifedipine. The headache starts in back, pounds, and spreads over your entire head. 1-10=10. It can be really dangerous and you really should follow restricts. If you've covered all that, sorry. I've had transient low BP symptoms, nothin serious tho. You? Any problems?
So if it takes a while on "your right dose", how will I know when to stop increasing? Like you, I've already lost a bunch of wieght (do you know if gender or wieght matter for dose?) What time of day do you take yours? Sleep patterns are wierd with this med, don't you think? Oh, this crazy depression left me completely lethargic, that scares me the most I think. Now I don't know if its still depression or side effect of Parnate. What was your experience? Did energy come back?
Well, I have questions but not gonna overload ya.
Thanks so much for helping me out. It gets so frustrating not knowing what to expect and when.And your right, no one can know unless they're in your shoes.(or have been there recently) So yeah, PLEASE keep in touch!
~Jade
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 26, 2008, at 13:19:23
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 25, 2008, at 22:52:21
> > > Nardil2007,
> > >
> > > One more thing, then promise to leave you alone!! What does the A/D effect feel like? The initial great me feeling or something else?
> > >
> > > ~Jade
> > >
> > >
> >
> > hey.. no please dont leave me alone lol.. im so glad to talk about this to someone in my shoes, or close to them...
> > I dont feel that the Initial effects of NE and epinephrine feel at all like the AD effects. I wish it felt the same, but to me its a definate difference. BUT at least Parnate works once it actually kicks in long term. Like I was saying I now feel really emotional in the mornings and just great in the afternoon. I laugh, I feel good and best of all it seems to have no side effects except Insomnia, INCREASE sex drive, weight loss (minor)and ....... thats it! I hope I can keep talking to you as you figure out your Parnate. Im only a few month on it too so Id like to tell you how im doing. You said you had a bad time after 30mg and it was a complete mess.. Can you explain more what bad effects you had after the good feeling ? Thanks, Your friend Phil
>
> Haha, are you kidding me? While I've been on Parnate I haven't found anyone who could give me the entire story. Also, it gets a little lonely, doesn't it? Nobody knowing what it feels like? I was really glad to hear back from you cause now I'll know I have some weeks ahead of me. And what to expect. And maybe someone to talk to who's been there I was starting to lose the faith!
>
> Um, about the mess, I geuss you mean the hypertensive thing. I had just had that unbelievable week, like my old self in a really good mood. It was my 11th day and woke up with a headache I cant describe. Did the hospital thing, etc., then it happened the next two days. I stayed at home for those and watched my BP, freaking the whole time, but both times it went back down. Doc wrote script for daily antidote till next appt. Never happened again. Think I was adjusting to med is all I can figure.
>
> You may have all this, but I would really reccomend getting a BP monitor, so if you start feelin wierd you'll know if its BP related. Also, if you haven't, def get the antidote and keep some with you and some at home. Mine is Nifedipine. The headache starts in back, pounds, and spreads over your entire head. 1-10=10. It can be really dangerous and you really should follow restricts. If you've covered all that, sorry. I've had transient low BP symptoms, nothin serious tho. You? Any problems?
>
> So if it takes a while on "your right dose", how will I know when to stop increasing? Like you, I've already lost a bunch of wieght (do you know if gender or wieght matter for dose?) What time of day do you take yours? Sleep patterns are wierd with this med, don't you think? Oh, this crazy depression left me completely lethargic, that scares me the most I think. Now I don't know if its still depression or side effect of Parnate. What was your experience? Did energy come back?
>
> Well, I have questions but not gonna overload ya.
> Thanks so much for helping me out. It gets so frustrating not knowing what to expect and when.
>
> And your right, no one can know unless they're in your shoes.(or have been there recently) So yeah, PLEASE keep in touch!
>
> ~Jade
>
>Hi Jade. Heres a lil of my story..
I was on Nardil for almost a year. at the begining I had very very low Blood pressure and couldnt stand up without blacking out (had to rise very slow) I had bad constipation, I had bad anorgasmia, I could barely walk because I was sooo weak, some insomnia (some nights it felt like it was kicking in) Nardil did not work much but better then everything else ive tried in the last 6 years. alcohol made it work as usual (still dont know why. most all side effects abated except anorgasmia, weight gain. I was at 90mgs a day I tried 105 at my last resort then quit cold turkey because it just had no antidepresant/antianxiety effect. I started Parnate the next day at 30 mgs, the next day i did 40mgs, and the third day i did 50 mgs. That wonderful initial feeling sent me manic at fifty mgs so I went back to forty for some weeks. nothing happened except my libito came back and i had insomnia. I went to 50 mgs after 3 weeks or so and i had that great feeling for about 3 days, then nothing. I waited at 50 mgs for 3-4 weeks and felt nothing. I went to 60 mgs and felt great for 3 days then felt nothing. I was taking 1/2 in morning and 1/2 at noon doses. I felt much insomnia and it was easy to get angry. I did like doing stuff more but it still had no positive effects. after 2 weeks at 60mgs a day (30mgs in morning 30 mgs at noon)I all of a sudden felt the AD kicking in! I started laughing and i had very little anxiety I wanted to be out with friends and my old interests came back. Ive now been on 60 mgs for 6 weeks. I still feel it workin good. I just started taking ALL 60 mgs in the morning, it makes my heart race for about 2 hrs and i sweat. my blood pressure is fairly stable except when i eat the odd thing. Im lucky that my BP is not much of a problem, I do have a monitor. Instead of me getting high blood pressure, my heart races a 100 miles an hour when i eat something wrong or at dosing time, I will probably brak my dose in halves again.
Insomnia sucks.. reallly sucks and i am trying to work that out now. its tough and i dont have an answer how to fix that yet. Dreams are crazy. I dont find Parnate sedating or activating. (neutral for me). I believe I had very few side effects at the begining (like blood pressure) because I was on Nardil just the day before I switched so my body was used to the maoi thing. If you slowly go up in dosage, waiting 2-4 weeks before increasing you will sooner or later feel the "real AD effect kick in" sucks like everything else that you gotta wait. My mornings are still emotional because of parnate and my afternoons are filled with happyness. I have bad sleeps. Im VERY glad that I have a good sex life with Parnate (its the only AD that has ever made me happy while keeping my sex life).
Its a tough battle trying to cut out the side effects but I will keep using it as long as I can.
I take Parnate 60mgs, Lamotrigine 200mgs, Hydrochlorosizide 20mgs (its a diuretic and is usually used for high blood pressure, I use it for maoi induced fluid retention, maybe that is why my blood pressure stays fairly good), I take .75mgs of clonazepam a day. thats all my meds. Soon I hope to be just on Parnate and use benzos occasionally and have that blood pressure medication like you have for emergencies. Yes I think your energy will come back because you will be out of depression and Parnate is not very sedating at all.I know that the more you weigh the more Parnate you may need. I think its somewhere around .75mg/kg of body weight. I dont follow that because my brain is so messed up anyway. I DO know that you need 80% or more Monoamine Oxidase inhibition for it to work, so what ever dosage inhibits the oxidase that much should work. WHat is your current dose? for how long? how do you feel?
Posted by JadeKelly on November 28, 2008, at 16:09:43
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 26, 2008, at 13:19:23
> Hi Jade. Heres a lil of my story..
> I was on Nardil for almost a year. at the begining I had very very low Blood pressure and couldnt stand up without blacking out (had to rise very slow) I had bad constipation, I had bad anorgasmia, I could barely walk because I was sooo weak, some insomnia (some nights it felt like it was kicking in) Nardil did not work much but better then everything else ive tried in the last 6 years. alcohol made it work as usual (still dont know why. most all side effects abated except anorgasmia, weight gain. I was at 90mgs a day I tried 105 at my last resort then quit cold turkey because it just had no antidepresant/antianxiety effect. I started Parnate the next day at 30 mgs, the next day i did 40mgs, and the third day i did 50 mgs. That wonderful initial feeling sent me manic at fifty mgs so I went back to forty for some weeks. nothing happened except my libito came back and i had insomnia. I went to 50 mgs after 3 weeks or so and i had that great feeling for about 3 days, then nothing. I waited at 50 mgs for 3-4 weeks and felt nothing. I went to 60 mgs and felt great for 3 days then felt nothing. I was taking 1/2 in morning and 1/2 at noon doses. I felt much insomnia and it was easy to get angry. I did like doing stuff more but it still had no positive effects. after 2 weeks at 60mgs a day (30mgs in morning 30 mgs at noon)I all of a sudden felt the AD kicking in! I started laughing and i had very little anxiety I wanted to be out with friends and my old interests came back. Ive now been on 60 mgs for 6 weeks. I still feel it workin good. I just started taking ALL 60 mgs in the morning, it makes my heart race for about 2 hrs and i sweat. my blood pressure is fairly stable except when i eat the odd thing. Im lucky that my BP is not much of a problem, I do have a monitor. Instead of me getting high blood pressure, my heart races a 100 miles an hour when i eat something wrong or at dosing time, I will probably brak my dose in halves again.
> Insomnia sucks.. reallly sucks and i am trying to work that out now. its tough and i dont have an answer how to fix that yet. Dreams are crazy. I dont find Parnate sedating or activating. (neutral for me). I believe I had very few side effects at the begining (like blood pressure) because I was on Nardil just the day before I switched so my body was used to the maoi thing. If you slowly go up in dosage, waiting 2-4 weeks before increasing you will sooner or later feel the "real AD effect kick in" sucks like everything else that you gotta wait. My mornings are still emotional because of parnate and my afternoons are filled with happyness. I have bad sleeps. Im VERY glad that I have a good sex life with Parnate (its the only AD that has ever made me happy while keeping my sex life).
> Its a tough battle trying to cut out the side effects but I will keep using it as long as I can.
> I take Parnate 60mgs, Lamotrigine 200mgs, Hydrochlorosizide 20mgs (its a diuretic and is usually used for high blood pressure, I use it for maoi induced fluid retention, maybe that is why my blood pressure stays fairly good), I take .75mgs of clonazepam a day. thats all my meds. Soon I hope to be just on Parnate and use benzos occasionally and have that blood pressure medication like you have for emergencies. Yes I think your energy will come back because you will be out of depression and Parnate is not very sedating at all.I know that the more you weigh the more Parnate you may need. I think its somewhere around .75mg/kg of body weight. I dont follow that because my brain is so messed up anyway. I DO know that you need 80% or more Monoamine Oxidase inhibition for it to work, so what ever dosage inhibits the oxidase that much should work. WHat is your current dose? for how long? how do you feel?Hi Phil/Parnatestarted2008?? ha
So, its been 6 weeks remission? Thats great! Sure hope that lasts, cause I'm following your lead almost exactly. A few days ago (probably cause of talking to you) I called PDoc and asked him to up my dose, 1st increase btw, from 30mg to 40mg daily. Was on 30mg for 6.5 weeks, on 40mg now for few days. So total 7 weeks. What's my ETA Phil? I know, you don't have a crystal ball. As far as kg, don't know. (Also, the only thing my brain is messed up from is depression, no drug/alcohol abuse) I weigh 125lbs. What dose should I be on? Based on your EXPERIENCE? (which is all I listen to any more) I know it varies some, but that would give me an idea how much longer.....
Is your 60mg low or high (didn't know which you meant) for a guy/your weight? I take it in one dose in the morning. Almost as soon as I increased it I got that great feeling again, not euphoric, just me in a good mood. Last night during dinner with family (14 people) I just sort of panicked and after dinner went to another room with my dad. Came home and went to my room to hide, haha. Then this morning, feel good again, now too, expect that around dinner time it'll be back to my room. Pathetic, I know. This would be the 3rd day of feeling good, and the third eve of feeling like retreating as usual. But I'll take what I can get! I think next time I increase (to 50mg) I will split doses, as I also get that racing heart thing AND maybe then I will feel the same all day instead of crash and burn at 6/7pm. I'm expecting what you told me, and trying to get as much done as I can before it(depression) hits again. But SOOOO glad you responded to my posts as I know this is all normal. I'd be spending my days trying to figure out what the heck is going on!!
So that stinks about the insomnia. I, too, take clonazapam but want to get off it. I was only on it for a neck/nerve injury. I forget to take it half the time. But what gets me a really good sleep, is the clonazapam, plus 6mg melatonin. Try it. I think you'll be surprised. Maybe not, but hey :^)
I'm curious, you said I think a couple of other meds worked for you? Do you mind telling me about those: Med name, how long till it worked, dose, how long till it stopped working, or why did you d/c, what you augmented with it, etc. If Parnate stopped working today, what med would you go back to?
The reason I ask, is that a poster, Scott, (SLS), came up with the theory that if you were to make two lists, one of meds that worked (for any amt of time), and one list of meds that were complete duds, you could work up a pretty good profile as to what neurotransmitters you are "low" in, and which ones you should leave alone. Like when I tried SSRI's a few times, they freaked me out so bad I had to stop in a matter of days. I couldn't look people in the eye. And I usually don't suffer from anxiety. So if PDoc even brings it up I shut it right back down. I've come to the conclusion that I need dopamine type a/d's. But even those I'm learning, if not delivered in the right way, won't work. Like Wellbutrin, not stong enough delivery. But combined with another dopamine med maybe perfect. Again, theory. But sounds right to me.
I thought that my initial "great" response to MAOI's meant that they were the only answer for me, and the response unique to my type depression, and that may still be true. But I think anyone who had a rush of NE/epinephrine would be feeling pretty good, right? So, the fact that your depressive symptoms were a lot like the ones I have, and you are now in remission, means??? That I will be in remission soon too!!!! Aren't I brilliant? haha
Hope to hear from you soon,
~Jade
Posted by desolationrower on November 28, 2008, at 19:53:38
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 28, 2008, at 16:09:43
The initial anxiety of ssris is probably about serotonin2 receptors, you might want to try adding an antagonist to your current meds.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 28, 2008, at 20:08:05
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by desolationrower on November 28, 2008, at 19:53:38
> The initial anxiety of ssris is probably about serotonin2 receptors, you might want to try adding an antagonist to your current meds.
>
> -d/rThanks d/r, any meds come to mind? What your saying is that if I don't need seratonin, a blocker could take that (or the anxiety part) out of the mix? I did once try Prozac for 30 days. I was anxiety ridden the entire time. I was so happy to be off it I went into remission (NOT).
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2008, at 21:17:10
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by desolationrower on November 28, 2008, at 19:53:38
Which meds are the antagonists as SSRI"S did the same to me except luvox low dose. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on November 28, 2008, at 21:34:12
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » desolationrower, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2008, at 21:17:10
> Which meds are the antagonists as SSRI"S did the same to me except luvox low dose. Thanks Phillipa
Princess Phillipa, did I not just ask the man that exact question? The d/r's of this world don't have time to be repeating themselves twice on one thread. I know this because he told me so. As in, I got told.
~Jade
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 28, 2008, at 22:33:07
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 28, 2008, at 16:09:43
> > Hi Jade. Heres a lil of my story..
> > I was on Nardil for almost a year. at the begining I had very very low Blood pressure and couldnt stand up without blacking out (had to rise very slow) I had bad constipation, I had bad anorgasmia, I could barely walk because I was sooo weak, some insomnia (some nights it felt like it was kicking in) Nardil did not work much but better then everything else ive tried in the last 6 years. alcohol made it work as usual (still dont know why. most all side effects abated except anorgasmia, weight gain. I was at 90mgs a day I tried 105 at my last resort then quit cold turkey because it just had no antidepresant/antianxiety effect. I started Parnate the next day at 30 mgs, the next day i did 40mgs, and the third day i did 50 mgs. That wonderful initial feeling sent me manic at fifty mgs so I went back to forty for some weeks. nothing happened except my libito came back and i had insomnia. I went to 50 mgs after 3 weeks or so and i had that great feeling for about 3 days, then nothing. I waited at 50 mgs for 3-4 weeks and felt nothing. I went to 60 mgs and felt great for 3 days then felt nothing. I was taking 1/2 in morning and 1/2 at noon doses. I felt much insomnia and it was easy to get angry. I did like doing stuff more but it still had no positive effects. after 2 weeks at 60mgs a day (30mgs in morning 30 mgs at noon)I all of a sudden felt the AD kicking in! I started laughing and i had very little anxiety I wanted to be out with friends and my old interests came back. Ive now been on 60 mgs for 6 weeks. I still feel it workin good. I just started taking ALL 60 mgs in the morning, it makes my heart race for about 2 hrs and i sweat. my blood pressure is fairly stable except when i eat the odd thing. Im lucky that my BP is not much of a problem, I do have a monitor. Instead of me getting high blood pressure, my heart races a 100 miles an hour when i eat something wrong or at dosing time, I will probably brak my dose in halves again.
> > Insomnia sucks.. reallly sucks and i am trying to work that out now. its tough and i dont have an answer how to fix that yet. Dreams are crazy. I dont find Parnate sedating or activating. (neutral for me). I believe I had very few side effects at the begining (like blood pressure) because I was on Nardil just the day before I switched so my body was used to the maoi thing. If you slowly go up in dosage, waiting 2-4 weeks before increasing you will sooner or later feel the "real AD effect kick in" sucks like everything else that you gotta wait. My mornings are still emotional because of parnate and my afternoons are filled with happyness. I have bad sleeps. Im VERY glad that I have a good sex life with Parnate (its the only AD that has ever made me happy while keeping my sex life).
> > Its a tough battle trying to cut out the side effects but I will keep using it as long as I can.
> > I take Parnate 60mgs, Lamotrigine 200mgs, Hydrochlorosizide 20mgs (its a diuretic and is usually used for high blood pressure, I use it for maoi induced fluid retention, maybe that is why my blood pressure stays fairly good), I take .75mgs of clonazepam a day. thats all my meds. Soon I hope to be just on Parnate and use benzos occasionally and have that blood pressure medication like you have for emergencies. Yes I think your energy will come back because you will be out of depression and Parnate is not very sedating at all.I know that the more you weigh the more Parnate you may need. I think its somewhere around .75mg/kg of body weight. I dont follow that because my brain is so messed up anyway. I DO know that you need 80% or more Monoamine Oxidase inhibition for it to work, so what ever dosage inhibits the oxidase that much should work. WHat is your current dose? for how long? how do you feel?
>
> Hi Phil/Parnatestarted2008?? ha
>
> So, its been 6 weeks remission? Thats great! Sure hope that lasts, cause I'm following your lead almost exactly. A few days ago (probably cause of talking to you) I called PDoc and asked him to up my dose, 1st increase btw, from 30mg to 40mg daily. Was on 30mg for 6.5 weeks, on 40mg now for few days. So total 7 weeks. What's my ETA Phil? I know, you don't have a crystal ball. As far as kg, don't know. (Also, the only thing my brain is messed up from is depression, no drug/alcohol abuse) I weigh 125lbs. What dose should I be on? Based on your EXPERIENCE? (which is all I listen to any more) I know it varies some, but that would give me an idea how much longer.....
>
> Is your 60mg low or high (didn't know which you meant) for a guy/your weight? I take it in one dose in the morning. Almost as soon as I increased it I got that great feeling again, not euphoric, just me in a good mood. Last night during dinner with family (14 people) I just sort of panicked and after dinner went to another room with my dad. Came home and went to my room to hide, haha. Then this morning, feel good again, now too, expect that around dinner time it'll be back to my room. Pathetic, I know. This would be the 3rd day of feeling good, and the third eve of feeling like retreating as usual. But I'll take what I can get! I think next time I increase (to 50mg) I will split doses, as I also get that racing heart thing AND maybe then I will feel the same all day instead of crash and burn at 6/7pm. I'm expecting what you told me, and trying to get as much done as I can before it(depression) hits again. But SOOOO glad you responded to my posts as I know this is all normal. I'd be spending my days trying to figure out what the heck is going on!!
>
> So that stinks about the insomnia. I, too, take clonazapam but want to get off it. I was only on it for a neck/nerve injury. I forget to take it half the time. But what gets me a really good sleep, is the clonazapam, plus 6mg melatonin. Try it. I think you'll be surprised. Maybe not, but hey :^)
>
> I'm curious, you said I think a couple of other meds worked for you? Do you mind telling me about those: Med name, how long till it worked, dose, how long till it stopped working, or why did you d/c, what you augmented with it, etc. If Parnate stopped working today, what med would you go back to?
>
> The reason I ask, is that a poster, Scott, (SLS), came up with the theory that if you were to make two lists, one of meds that worked (for any amt of time), and one list of meds that were complete duds, you could work up a pretty good profile as to what neurotransmitters you are "low" in, and which ones you should leave alone. Like when I tried SSRI's a few times, they freaked me out so bad I had to stop in a matter of days. I couldn't look people in the eye. And I usually don't suffer from anxiety. So if PDoc even brings it up I shut it right back down. I've come to the conclusion that I need dopamine type a/d's. But even those I'm learning, if not delivered in the right way, won't work. Like Wellbutrin, not stong enough delivery. But combined with another dopamine med maybe perfect. Again, theory. But sounds right to me.
>
> I thought that my initial "great" response to MAOI's meant that they were the only answer for me, and the response unique to my type depression, and that may still be true. But I think anyone who had a rush of NE/epinephrine would be feeling pretty good, right? So, the fact that your depressive symptoms were a lot like the ones I have, and you are now in remission, means??? That I will be in remission soon too!!!! Aren't I brilliant? haha
>
> Hope to hear from you soon,
>
> ~Jade
>
>Bonjour, So you feel the NE/Epinephrin kick as soon as you took 40mg... thats good to know because I can assume its working quite similar for you as it does for me. I expect that good feeling you get will dissapear any day now and you'll feel like its doing nothing (except the side effect like heart racing at dose time, insomnia, maybe jittery.. at least those were some for me). I say I take a high dose (60mg/day) because thats the highest dose approved by the FDA and 30mg/day is recomended starting dose. SOme peole on Parnate take up to 200mg/day which blows me away! I guess that shows how desensitized some peoples brains get to these meds. If you stick at 40mg/day for another 2.5 weeks you should know if its working or not. If not, try 50 mgs for another 3 weeks (im sure youll get those initial good feelings as soon as you increasy your dose but will go away. then you gotta wait the whole 3 weeks to see if the "real antidepressant effect" will kick in.
WHen I started at 50 mgs I went MANIC, very hyper very happy, so I dropped to 40 like I mentioned before. WHat happened was that it was those initial good feelings, not the real antidepressant effect that were too strong. The next shot at 50mgs after 3 weeks at 40mgs I could tolerate the good feelings for the first 3 days without going too manic. Then 3 weeks later, nothing. Once I hit 60 mgs I had the initial good feelings which went away after 2 days but the Real Antidepressant Effect kicked in after about 10 days at 60 mgs. ( I know I repeated alot of the same stuff ive said before, I guess im just making sure i was right in the first message)
As for weight it doest matter too too much like it does with Nardil. Nardil you can expect it to work at 1mg/kg of body weight. it Varies signifigantly for some people tho. if your 125lbs Id suspect 30 - 50mg's will work but youve already prooved 30 mgs does not. Just a note: it can take 6 weeks at each dose increase to know foresure that it will, or will not work. It just "usually" works within 2-3 weeks after youve been on a lower dose for 6 weeks. IM not gonna wait 6 weeks at every dose increase if it usually works after 3 when titrating up dosages. I have severe social Anxiety disorder which leads to depression and agoraphobia. Depression SUcks Dong and Anxiety ontop is a killer. ANd O mighty Parnate, The Last drug I have tried. This is almost my last resort. After this it will be on to Weird off label Pharmaceutical mixtures of my own making ahha. I Know Parnate isProbably The #1 best Antidepressant in the world. its not very good for Anxiety but thats for most people. it seems to be doing a great job on both. AND YES my days are split feeling. Morning I feel so sensitive I could cry at anything. Its not that bad I just have very over stimulated feelings. by afternoon i just like the antidepressant effect and anti anxiety.. Next Post Ill write a list of drugs that worked and did not and their issues. Hope this helps I love talking about it. Feel free to tell me lots more , I just gotta go here at the moment..
Posted by JadeKelly on November 29, 2008, at 0:30:36
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on November 28, 2008, at 22:33:07
> Bonjour, So you feel the NE/Epinephrin kick as soon as you took 40mg... thats good to know because I can assume its working quite similar for you as it does for me. I expect that good feeling you get will dissapear any day now and you'll feel like its doing nothing
(except the side effect like heart racing at dose time, insomnia, maybe jittery.. at least those were some for me)Well aren't you just a pocket full of sunshine!.
I say I take a high dose (60mg/day) because thats the highest dose approved by the FDA and 30mg/day is recomended starting dose. SOme peole on Parnate take up to 200mg/day which blows me away! I guess that shows how desensitized some peoples brains get to these meds. If you stick at 40mg/day for another 2.5 weeks you should know if its working or not. If not, try 50 mgs for another 3 weeks (im sure youll get those initial good feelings as soon as you increasy your dose but will go away. then you gotta wait the whole 3 weeks to see if the "real antidepressant effect" will kick in.
> WHen I started at 50 mgs I went MANIC, very hyper very happy, so I dropped to 40 like I mentioned before. WHat happened was that it was those initial good feelings, not the real antidepressant effect that were too strong. The next shot at 50mgs after 3 weeks at 40mgs I could tolerate the good feelings for the first 3 days without going too manic. Then 3 weeks later, nothing. Once I hit 60 mgs I had the initial good feelings which went away after 2 days but the Real Antidepressant Effect kicked in after about 10 days at 60 mgs. ( I know I repeated alot of the same stuff ive said before, I guess im just making sure i was right in the first message)
> As for weight it doest matter too too much like it does with Nardil. Nardil you can expect it to work at 1mg/kg of body weight. it Varies signifigantly for some people tho. if your 125lbs Id suspect 30 - 50mg's will work but youve already prooved 30 mgs does not. Just a note: it can take 6 weeks at each dose increase to know foresure that it will, or will not work. It just "usually" works within 2-3 weeks after youve been on a lower dose for 6 weeks. IM not gonna wait 6 weeks at every dose increase if it usually works after 3 when titrating up dosages. I have severe social Anxiety disorder which leads to depression and agoraphobia. Depression SUcks Dong and Anxiety ontop is a killer. ANd O mighty Parnate, The Last drug I have tried. This is almost my last resort. After this it will be on to Weird off label Pharmaceutical mixtures of my own making ahha. I Know Parnate isProbably The #1 best Antidepressant in the world. its not very good for Anxiety but thats for most people. it seems to be doing a great job on both. AND YES my days are split feeling. Morning I feel so sensitive I could cry at anything. Its not that bad I just have very over stimulated feelings. by afternoon i just like the antidepressant effect and anti anxiety.. Next Post Ill write a list of drugs that worked and did not and their issues. Hope this helps I love talking about it. Feel free to tell me lots more , I just gotta go here at the moment..Wait...its the weekend and your saying you have something better to do than talk to me? Well, frankly Phil, I'm hurt. So, I thought you were done titrating at 60mg. Do you expect to go higher? As for sensitivity and crying, and overstimulated feelings, bring it on. I've been numb for far too long. Time to face the music (I'm afraid to face the music).
Sorry your depression "sucks dong" and your anxiety is killer. A bad combo. But you are still in remission tho, right? I didn't know you had anxiety for some reason. Did you have agoraphobia before, or did it come as a package deal with depression? Just rechecking our similarities. Mine is loss of most previous pleasures. I still like to breathe. I literally feel numb and lethargic. My emotions (or lack thereof) would be the most striking symptom. Total shut down, although I do feel agoraphobic and have anxiety if around other people at times. Never had either of those. Still sound familiar?
So, other meds list can wait, I don't plan on going off Parnate any time soon, but I would like a back-up plan just in case. Little nervous about going up to 50mg but I will if thats what it takes.
OK, you take care of business and I will chat with you next time!
~Jade
PS-3 days of feeling normal to good, eves, not so much. May be wearing off. One step closer.....
Posted by desolationrower on December 1, 2008, at 13:57:03
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » desolationrower, posted by JadeKelly on November 28, 2008, at 20:08:05
> > The initial anxiety of ssris is probably about serotonin2 receptors, you might want to try adding an antagonist to your current meds.
> >
> > -d/r
>
> Thanks d/r, any meds come to mind? What your saying is that if I don't need seratonin, a blocker could take that (or the anxiety part) out of the mix? I did once try Prozac for 30 days. I was anxiety ridden the entire time. I was so happy to be off it I went into remission (NOT).
>
> ~Jade
>
>ack forgot about this. There are lots of 5ht2 antagonists, and none of them are perfect (have other effects too). Include low dose of most atypical antipsychotics, especially risperidone, which is probably the most practical, although some risk if you are a slow metabolizer of it; if you get big pills and spit them its not that expensive. Nefazadone, but its hard to get because of the liver problem. mirtazapine, but only once the other effects kick in too, so not a good choice, though part of why it is a good combination with sris. A number of the TCAs, i think doxepin & amytryptiline being the most potent, but these are stronger antihistamines, so they and also 5ht2 anagaonist cyproheptadine, they could be taken before bed as low dose to improve sleep, and might help with anxiety the next day to some extent. pizotifen, i think its hard to get, and docs will be confused. ketanserin, i don't nkow if you can get this, its used sometimes in studies of the receptor. Might be some othesr i'm forgetting.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on December 1, 2008, at 16:05:13
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!!, posted by desolationrower on December 1, 2008, at 13:57:03
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on December 1, 2008, at 18:48:04
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on November 29, 2008, at 0:30:36
>
> > Bonjour, So you feel the NE/Epinephrin kick as soon as you took 40mg... thats good to know because I can assume its working quite similar for you as it does for me. I expect that good feeling you get will dissapear any day now and you'll feel like its doing nothing
> (except the side effect like heart racing at dose time, insomnia, maybe jittery.. at least those were some for me)
>
> Well aren't you just a pocket full of sunshine!.
>
> I say I take a high dose (60mg/day) because thats the highest dose approved by the FDA and 30mg/day is recomended starting dose. SOme peole on Parnate take up to 200mg/day which blows me away! I guess that shows how desensitized some peoples brains get to these meds. If you stick at 40mg/day for another 2.5 weeks you should know if its working or not. If not, try 50 mgs for another 3 weeks (im sure youll get those initial good feelings as soon as you increasy your dose but will go away. then you gotta wait the whole 3 weeks to see if the "real antidepressant effect" will kick in.
> > WHen I started at 50 mgs I went MANIC, very hyper very happy, so I dropped to 40 like I mentioned before. WHat happened was that it was those initial good feelings, not the real antidepressant effect that were too strong. The next shot at 50mgs after 3 weeks at 40mgs I could tolerate the good feelings for the first 3 days without going too manic. Then 3 weeks later, nothing. Once I hit 60 mgs I had the initial good feelings which went away after 2 days but the Real Antidepressant Effect kicked in after about 10 days at 60 mgs. ( I know I repeated alot of the same stuff ive said before, I guess im just making sure i was right in the first message)
> > As for weight it doest matter too too much like it does with Nardil. Nardil you can expect it to work at 1mg/kg of body weight. it Varies signifigantly for some people tho. if your 125lbs Id suspect 30 - 50mg's will work but youve already prooved 30 mgs does not. Just a note: it can take 6 weeks at each dose increase to know foresure that it will, or will not work. It just "usually" works within 2-3 weeks after youve been on a lower dose for 6 weeks. IM not gonna wait 6 weeks at every dose increase if it usually works after 3 when titrating up dosages. I have severe social Anxiety disorder which leads to depression and agoraphobia. Depression SUcks Dong and Anxiety ontop is a killer. ANd O mighty Parnate, The Last drug I have tried. This is almost my last resort. After this it will be on to Weird off label Pharmaceutical mixtures of my own making ahha. I Know Parnate isProbably The #1 best Antidepressant in the world. its not very good for Anxiety but thats for most people. it seems to be doing a great job on both. AND YES my days are split feeling. Morning I feel so sensitive I could cry at anything. Its not that bad I just have very over stimulated feelings. by afternoon i just like the antidepressant effect and anti anxiety.. Next Post Ill write a list of drugs that worked and did not and their issues. Hope this helps I love talking about it. Feel free to tell me lots more , I just gotta go here at the moment..
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wait...its the weekend and your saying you have something better to do than talk to me? Well, frankly Phil, I'm hurt. So, I thought you were done titrating at 60mg. Do you expect to go higher? As for sensitivity and crying, and overstimulated feelings, bring it on. I've been numb for far too long. Time to face the music (I'm afraid to face the music).
>
> Sorry your depression "sucks dong" and your anxiety is killer. A bad combo. But you are still in remission tho, right? I didn't know you had anxiety for some reason. Did you have agoraphobia before, or did it come as a package deal with depression? Just rechecking our similarities. Mine is loss of most previous pleasures. I still like to breathe. I literally feel numb and lethargic. My emotions (or lack thereof) would be the most striking symptom. Total shut down, although I do feel agoraphobic and have anxiety if around other people at times. Never had either of those. Still sound familiar?
>
> So, other meds list can wait, I don't plan on going off Parnate any time soon, but I would like a back-up plan just in case. Little nervous about going up to 50mg but I will if thats what it takes.
>
> OK, you take care of business and I will chat with you next time!
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS-3 days of feeling normal to good, eves, not so much. May be wearing off. One step closer.....
>
I wrote alote here, but my med list is at the bottom of my post. If you get initial side effects from the parnate I hope to god you can wait them out till your body adapts to it, they will go away! mostly. and its worth it because who knows, maybe Parnate will work wonders when you get to you theraputic dose.Hey Jade! Yes im still in remission. No im not still titrating, I'm just assuming Parnate will start pooping out one day and I'll have to raise the dose up. Im a bit Cynical to Antidepressants.. they cause alot of bad BUT I know theyve done alot more good then bad when I think of where i would be without them.
Did I really hurt you when I had something else to do? Was it because you feel so bad... its all good , I can take it because Im doing well enough on parnate to actually let things fly like that even if its just a joke, or real. I used to be very very sensitive to public scrutiney (im not best speller) I still am underneath but it really shows Im doing well.
FACE THE MUSIC! Well I tell you what, Ive never had more feelings in my life. heres an example from a minute before i wrote this post - I heard on the radio a commercial thing, it was a lil skit. A guy told another guy at work that there was something wrong in the payroll department and that they couldnt find the guy's address to send his earnings to, the guy said oh, ok, ill get onto that and get back to you. Then the skit was over and the radio said something like: many people you know are homeless and youd never even be able to tell, a message from the sation." I was so moved and felt so sad for the guy I had a big lump in my throat and felt so human, it was nuts. Happy, sad, keen, enthusiastic etc etc, my days are full of all the feelings now. So completely opposite from before where I didnt care about anything. Before I could probably watch my mom cry and id be so numb it would nt bother me.. which led me deeper into depression cuz i would think how unemotional i was and a bad person.. Anyway. (a bit scary), You'll be OK i promise* just dont go watching heart wrenching movies every night and looking through old photo albums right away. I know those two things in particular make me so full of emotions I know when and when not to engage in it. The crying thing isnt out of sadness (well sometimes) but rather its because im bubling with feelings. My dad and grandpa was like that. my dad is normal but he'll cry watching a movie or when he's proud of something or happy. (Parnate is bringing them on maybe just a little too strong for me, but Hey! im not complaining at all:))
Your symtoms do sound familiar foresure. I know our initial diagnosis is different but I;ve felt the way you explain yourself sometimes. My Major problem (since i was probably 4) is social phobia/over analyzing myself/Panic attacks/depersonalization.. by college i couldnt cope anymore and became agoraphobic and didnt leave my house. I became depressed and lost all intersts except like u said i did breath. The only thing that got me up was to research the net for a reason and a cure. Walk in Clinic gave me Paxil 20mgs. Crazy side effects BUT within 2 weeks I was completely manic and back in class talking a million miles a minute, did some presentations (still were hard)as well made lots of new friends, did crazy things, Not a care in the world, I was NUTS lol. I loved it (except sex life was all gone). I got a great summmer job. so after 5 months of mania i decided to lower the dose. i got some withdrawl. Life once again SUCKED just like before so i did what any sane or insane person would do and raised Paxil back up. It didnt work ever again even with higher doses.. that was about seven years ago. ever since ive been looking for that "drug" to make me like I first felt on Paxil.
What I now know is being in a manic state isnt good either. Now I am sorta diagnosed ( from a few diff. psychiatrists), supposedly im: Bipolar2 with rapid cycling and have social phobia. I'm pretty sure im similar to every other depressive out there, I need an antidepressant and I know when it works and when it doesn't, even tho my diagnosis is different. I will get the AD effect sometimes and if I do Ill know if its the one I need or not.
list: Paxil 20mgs-worked but after that NO other SSRI ever worked again except odd times when I would think it was working for a few days (probably was just my bipolar).. Zoloft up to 200mgs, Celexa 20mgs, cipralex up to 30mgs (this one made me so tired I could sleep 23 hours a day on a hardwood floor), prozac60mgs, Wellbutrin SR 150mgs x 2 daily so 300mgs total/day. It made me very very interested in everthing I did and was very prosexual, I would stay up all night sometimes just reviewing and studying things for no reason but curiosity, I was a bit ignorant and self oriented, I was energized. it took 2 weeks to work fully but similar to Parnate when I began it)The anxiety Wellbutrin created was terrible so i had to quit. I tried Paxil again 30mgs with 300mgs of wellbutrin XL, it didnt work, Then I tried Effexor and it had the energizing feeling like parnate and wellbutrin (cuz all 3 act on NOREpiNephrine) but Effexor's energy and focus stayed from day 1 and lasted for 2 months, then it stopped working but I kept taking it. I turned to Alcohol With the Effexor and it would give me euphoria (Every SSRI I ever tried had wonderful euphoria when mixed with alcohol). I didnt drink at work so I was on effexor and having social phobia/panick attacks and was suffering with agoraphobia. Ultimately I Drunk a miki and 6 beer and took 4 mgs of xanax which led me to the hospital and loosing my job. I came home to parents house and drunk and partied with the effexor while i could. Then I tried Paxil AGAIN!! hahha dont ask why , i was crazy. didnt work. I cold turkey quit everything for a month. I felt great except the initial withdrawl but I felt human again and not numbed by ssris. by the end of the month I had a anxiety attack at a friends that lasted almost 2 days, I drove all the way home from college 10hrs and hid in our camping trailor with a botle of xanax, I went depressed, I wanted to die or be secluded in a cabin in the mountains forever.. I couldnt even talk to my parents. So I went to a clinic and immediately got a script for NARDIL.Phase 2: MAOI's. Nardil was ok, it worked but only at the highest FDA dose of 90mgs a day, it was full of side effects. It didnt work good enough so I drunk quite regularly. In my opinion it was the first thing to somewhat work since 6 years previous when Paxil initially worked.. I had 2 hospitalizations while on Nardil from my bipolar because i went psychotic, first time I was just stabilized and was ok after a week being in the ward. 2nd time I got put on lithium with Nardil. I got strucred environment in the hospital and when I left I was GREAT! Nardil is not too bad if you keep to a strict healthy lifestyle with good structure, Lithium made it work much better.
I quit because the side effects and lithium also is a weight gainer. So Walk in Clinic I went and got PARNATE YaY!
I did the switch within 24hrs.
Parnate: I find it to be the most powerful drug of them all and it works too. It is Notorious for pooping out, so your dosage goes up with time. Some people it never poops out.
Parnate gave me this: Im up early, I like to cook, read, work on stuff, bowshoot, have interesting conversations, a bright look on the future with asperations..... Parnate makes me Normal, Im liking it very much.
ALERTEC!!!!!!!!!!!! I took 150mg's of alertec with my noon dose of parnate and WOW! I was very constructive, VERY fast and felt unbelievably good.. probably a good choice to take a little when Parnate gives you the afternoon tired spells.Conclusion:
#1. Parnate
#2. Nardil
#3.Effexor - worked for 2 months wonderfully then stopped.
#4. Wellbutrin - Not good for me because I have anxiety but Great med that took me off the couch and into a creative worled where I was full of energy and capable and wanting to do all tasks in life, I wish it helped with anxiety, oh well.
#5. I think any ssri i would have tried first would have done the same as Paxil... so I have no good input on any SSRIS other then they work 30 % of the time and the rest of the people quite because side effects or it doesnt work.Non-Antidepressants ( a break down aswell)
#1.Alertec - energizing, long half life, antidepressant effect a bit, focus, good for ADD symptoms. (I've only used it when I need it, never on a daily dosing regime, which you can do)
#2. Clonazepam/xanax, Great for anxiety at doses above 2mg's for me. no AD effect:(
#3. Propanolol - Takes away ALL my physical symptoms of anxiety and panic, Only physical tho. very good too when i dont want to shake or have my heart racing. 40mg's as needed is good.
How are you feeling?
Your Friend Phil
Posted by Phillipa on December 1, 2008, at 20:57:37
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on December 1, 2008, at 18:48:04
Hey paxil at l0mg with lopressor 25mg and low doses of xanax and my beer worked and then off it after two years. And nothing has worked since either brief response to high dose luvox with benzos. Never did MAOIS's Love Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on December 1, 2008, at 23:47:24
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on December 1, 2008, at 18:48:04
> >
> > > Bonjour, So you feel the NE/Epinephrin kick as soon as you took 40mg... thats good to know because I can assume its working quite similar for you as it does for me. I expect that good feeling you get will dissapear any day now and you'll feel like its doing nothing
> > (except the side effect like heart racing at dose time, insomnia, maybe jittery.. at least those were some for me)
> >
> > Well aren't you just a pocket full of sunshine!.
> >
> > I say I take a high dose (60mg/day) because thats the highest dose approved by the FDA and 30mg/day is recomended starting dose. SOme peole on Parnate take up to 200mg/day which blows me away! I guess that shows how desensitized some peoples brains get to these meds. If you stick at 40mg/day for another 2.5 weeks you should know if its working or not. If not, try 50 mgs for another 3 weeks (im sure youll get those initial good feelings as soon as you increasy your dose but will go away. then you gotta wait the whole 3 weeks to see if the "real antidepressant effect" will kick in.
> > > WHen I started at 50 mgs I went MANIC, very hyper very happy, so I dropped to 40 like I mentioned before. WHat happened was that it was those initial good feelings, not the real antidepressant effect that were too strong. The next shot at 50mgs after 3 weeks at 40mgs I could tolerate the good feelings for the first 3 days without going too manic. Then 3 weeks later, nothing. Once I hit 60 mgs I had the initial good feelings which went away after 2 days but the Real Antidepressant Effect kicked in after about 10 days at 60 mgs. ( I know I repeated alot of the same stuff ive said before, I guess im just making sure i was right in the first message)
> > > As for weight it doest matter too too much like it does with Nardil. Nardil you can expect it to work at 1mg/kg of body weight. it Varies signifigantly for some people tho. if your 125lbs Id suspect 30 - 50mg's will work but youve already prooved 30 mgs does not. Just a note: it can take 6 weeks at each dose increase to know foresure that it will, or will not work. It just "usually" works within 2-3 weeks after youve been on a lower dose for 6 weeks. IM not gonna wait 6 weeks at every dose increase if it usually works after 3 when titrating up dosages. I have severe social Anxiety disorder which leads to depression and agoraphobia. Depression SUcks Dong and Anxiety ontop is a killer. ANd O mighty Parnate, The Last drug I have tried. This is almost my last resort. After this it will be on to Weird off label Pharmaceutical mixtures of my own making ahha. I Know Parnate isProbably The #1 best Antidepressant in the world. its not very good for Anxiety but thats for most people. it seems to be doing a great job on both. AND YES my days are split feeling. Morning I feel so sensitive I could cry at anything. Its not that bad I just have very over stimulated feelings. by afternoon i just like the antidepressant effect and anti anxiety.. Next Post Ill write a list of drugs that worked and did not and their issues. Hope this helps I love talking about it. Feel free to tell me lots more , I just gotta go here at the moment..
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Wait...its the weekend and your saying you have something better to do than talk to me? Well, frankly Phil, I'm hurt. So, I thought you were done titrating at 60mg. Do you expect to go higher? As for sensitivity and crying, and overstimulated feelings, bring it on. I've been numb for far too long. Time to face the music (I'm afraid to face the music).
> >
> > Sorry your depression "sucks dong" and your anxiety is killer. A bad combo. But you are still in remission tho, right? I didn't know you had anxiety for some reason. Did you have agoraphobia before, or did it come as a package deal with depression? Just rechecking our similarities. Mine is loss of most previous pleasures. I still like to breathe. I literally feel numb and lethargic. My emotions (or lack thereof) would be the most striking symptom. Total shut down, although I do feel agoraphobic and have anxiety if around other people at times. Never had either of those. Still sound familiar?
> >
> > So, other meds list can wait, I don't plan on going off Parnate any time soon, but I would like a back-up plan just in case. Little nervous about going up to 50mg but I will if thats what it takes.
> >
> > OK, you take care of business and I will chat with you next time!
> >
> > ~Jade
> >
> > PS-3 days of feeling normal to good, eves, not so much. May be wearing off. One step closer.....
> >
> I wrote alote here, but my med list is at the bottom of my post. If you get initial side effects from the parnate I hope to god you can wait them out till your body adapts to it, they will go away! mostly. and its worth it because who knows, maybe Parnate will work wonders when you get to you theraputic dose.
>
> Hey Jade! Yes im still in remission. No im not still titrating, I'm just assuming Parnate will start pooping out one day and I'll have to raise the dose up. Im a bit Cynical to Antidepressants.. they cause alot of bad BUT I know theyve done alot more good then bad when I think of where i would be without them.
> Did I really hurt you when I had something else to do? Was it because you feel so bad... its all good , I can take it because Im doing well enough on parnate to actually let things fly like that even if its just a joke, or real. I used to be very very sensitive to public scrutiney (im not best speller) I still am underneath but it really shows Im doing well.
> FACE THE MUSIC! Well I tell you what, Ive never had more feelings in my life. heres an example from a minute before i wrote this post - I heard on the radio a commercial thing, it was a lil skit. A guy told another guy at work that there was something wrong in the payroll department and that they couldnt find the guy's address to send his earnings to, the guy said oh, ok, ill get onto that and get back to you. Then the skit was over and the radio said something like: many people you know are homeless and youd never even be able to tell, a message from the sation." I was so moved and felt so sad for the guy I had a big lump in my throat and felt so human, it was nuts. Happy, sad, keen, enthusiastic etc etc, my days are full of all the feelings now. So completely opposite from before where I didnt care about anything. Before I could probably watch my mom cry and id be so numb it would nt bother me.. which led me deeper into depression cuz i would think how unemotional i was and a bad person.. Anyway. (a bit scary), You'll be OK i promise* just dont go watching heart wrenching movies every night and looking through old photo albums right away. I know those two things in particular make me so full of emotions I know when and when not to engage in it. The crying thing isnt out of sadness (well sometimes) but rather its because im bubling with feelings. My dad and grandpa was like that. my dad is normal but he'll cry watching a movie or when he's proud of something or happy. (Parnate is bringing them on maybe just a little too strong for me, but Hey! im not complaining at all:))
> Your symtoms do sound familiar foresure. I know our initial diagnosis is different but I;ve felt the way you explain yourself sometimes. My Major problem (since i was probably 4) is social phobia/over analyzing myself/Panic attacks/depersonalization.. by college i couldnt cope anymore and became agoraphobic and didnt leave my house. I became depressed and lost all intersts except like u said i did breath. The only thing that got me up was to research the net for a reason and a cure. Walk in Clinic gave me Paxil 20mgs. Crazy side effects BUT within 2 weeks I was completely manic and back in class talking a million miles a minute, did some presentations (still were hard)as well made lots of new friends, did crazy things, Not a care in the world, I was NUTS lol. I loved it (except sex life was all gone). I got a great summmer job. so after 5 months of mania i decided to lower the dose. i got some withdrawl. Life once again SUCKED just like before so i did what any sane or insane person would do and raised Paxil back up. It didnt work ever again even with higher doses.. that was about seven years ago. ever since ive been looking for that "drug" to make me like I first felt on Paxil.
> What I now know is being in a manic state isnt good either. Now I am sorta diagnosed ( from a few diff. psychiatrists), supposedly im: Bipolar2 with rapid cycling and have social phobia. I'm pretty sure im similar to every other depressive out there, I need an antidepressant and I know when it works and when it doesn't, even tho my diagnosis is different. I will get the AD effect sometimes and if I do Ill know if its the one I need or not.
> list: Paxil 20mgs-worked but after that NO other SSRI ever worked again except odd times when I would think it was working for a few days (probably was just my bipolar).. Zoloft up to 200mgs, Celexa 20mgs, cipralex up to 30mgs (this one made me so tired I could sleep 23 hours a day on a hardwood floor), prozac60mgs, Wellbutrin SR 150mgs x 2 daily so 300mgs total/day. It made me very very interested in everthing I did and was very prosexual, I would stay up all night sometimes just reviewing and studying things for no reason but curiosity, I was a bit ignorant and self oriented, I was energized. it took 2 weeks to work fully but similar to Parnate when I began it)The anxiety Wellbutrin created was terrible so i had to quit. I tried Paxil again 30mgs with 300mgs of wellbutrin XL, it didnt work, Then I tried Effexor and it had the energizing feeling like parnate and wellbutrin (cuz all 3 act on NOREpiNephrine) but Effexor's energy and focus stayed from day 1 and lasted for 2 months, then it stopped working but I kept taking it. I turned to Alcohol With the Effexor and it would give me euphoria (Every SSRI I ever tried had wonderful euphoria when mixed with alcohol). I didnt drink at work so I was on effexor and having social phobia/panick attacks and was suffering with agoraphobia. Ultimately I Drunk a miki and 6 beer and took 4 mgs of xanax which led me to the hospital and loosing my job. I came home to parents house and drunk and partied with the effexor while i could. Then I tried Paxil AGAIN!! hahha dont ask why , i was crazy. didnt work. I cold turkey quit everything for a month. I felt great except the initial withdrawl but I felt human again and not numbed by ssris. by the end of the month I had a anxiety attack at a friends that lasted almost 2 days, I drove all the way home from college 10hrs and hid in our camping trailor with a botle of xanax, I went depressed, I wanted to die or be secluded in a cabin in the mountains forever.. I couldnt even talk to my parents. So I went to a clinic and immediately got a script for NARDIL.
>
> Phase 2: MAOI's. Nardil was ok, it worked but only at the highest FDA dose of 90mgs a day, it was full of side effects. It didnt work good enough so I drunk quite regularly. In my opinion it was the first thing to somewhat work since 6 years previous when Paxil initially worked.. I had 2 hospitalizations while on Nardil from my bipolar because i went psychotic, first time I was just stabilized and was ok after a week being in the ward. 2nd time I got put on lithium with Nardil. I got strucred environment in the hospital and when I left I was GREAT! Nardil is not too bad if you keep to a strict healthy lifestyle with good structure, Lithium made it work much better.
> I quit because the side effects and lithium also is a weight gainer. So Walk in Clinic I went and got PARNATE YaY!
> I did the switch within 24hrs.
> Parnate: I find it to be the most powerful drug of them all and it works too. It is Notorious for pooping out, so your dosage goes up with time. Some people it never poops out.
> Parnate gave me this: Im up early, I like to cook, read, work on stuff, bowshoot, have interesting conversations, a bright look on the future with asperations..... Parnate makes me Normal, Im liking it very much.
> ALERTEC!!!!!!!!!!!! I took 150mg's of alertec with my noon dose of parnate and WOW! I was very constructive, VERY fast and felt unbelievably good.. probably a good choice to take a little when Parnate gives you the afternoon tired spells.
>
> Conclusion:
> #1. Parnate
> #2. Nardil
> #3.Effexor - worked for 2 months wonderfully then stopped.
> #4. Wellbutrin - Not good for me because I have anxiety but Great med that took me off the couch and into a creative worled where I was full of energy and capable and wanting to do all tasks in life, I wish it helped with anxiety, oh well.
> #5. I think any ssri i would have tried first would have done the same as Paxil... so I have no good input on any SSRIS other then they work 30 % of the time and the rest of the people quite because side effects or it doesnt work.
>
> Non-Antidepressants ( a break down aswell)
> #1.Alertec - energizing, long half life, antidepressant effect a bit, focus, good for ADD symptoms. (I've only used it when I need it, never on a daily dosing regime, which you can do)
> #2. Clonazepam/xanax, Great for anxiety at doses above 2mg's for me. no AD effect:(
> #3. Propanolol - Takes away ALL my physical symptoms of anxiety and panic, Only physical tho. very good too when i dont want to shake or have my heart racing. 40mg's as needed is good.
> How are you feeling?
> Your Friend PhilOh Gosh, Phil, I'm sorry. I thought we were kinda joking around enough that you would know I was kidding! Believe me, it would REALLY take a lot to hurt my feelings right now. I should have been more careful tho, you're ahead of me and actually have feelings like a normal person. I better watch my joking and sarcasm. Not just with you. So you've been thru he*l and back sounds like. That was quite a story. I'm glad you're in such a better place now. One of my sons is bipolar I, he's been hospitalized 3 times for mania. He gave me a good scare. He was rapid cycling for nine months until we found right meds. He's such a great kid, you would like him. So sounds like between my depression and seeing close up Bipolar, I probably still can't even imagine what you've been thru emotionally. I'll have some serious losses to face when I wake up from this, I can see why people like us "go underground". I do think you just shut down. By the time you do, there is no easy way back. Even if Parnate works (I'm planning that it will!), I'll have some adjusting to do. Not complaining mind you, just a little scared of feeling anything. Oh, and btw? How refreshing that the men in your family can show their feelings! The world could use more Dad's like that. Sounds like you have a nice family. Oh, thanks for that med list, I think I'll feel better if I have a back-up plan in place. Not that I'll need it mind you. And about the side effects stopping me from taking Parnate? NO WAY!!! I'm going all the way till I feel like myself again. At worst, I'd probably add something. Maybe that "Alertec", don't know what it is! So, its after midnight, with Parnate I've been falling asleep sometimes in late afternoon/evening, then wake back up. And here I am! I'll write again soon when I'm more awake. Again, sorry if I confused you. I'm not fragile (right now) at all. You won't hurt my feelings and I hope I didn't hurt yours. I think your great!!!
~Jade
>
Posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on December 2, 2008, at 19:26:29
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » Nardilstarted 2007, posted by JadeKelly on December 1, 2008, at 23:47:24
> > >
> > > > Bonjour, So you feel the NE/Epinephrin kick as soon as you took 40mg... thats good to know because I can assume its working quite similar for you as it does for me. I expect that good feeling you get will dissapear any day now and you'll feel like its doing nothing
> > > (except the side effect like heart racing at dose time, insomnia, maybe jittery.. at least those were some for me)
> > >
> > > Well aren't you just a pocket full of sunshine!.
> > >
> > > I say I take a high dose (60mg/day) because thats the highest dose approved by the FDA and 30mg/day is recomended starting dose. SOme peole on Parnate take up to 200mg/day which blows me away! I guess that shows how desensitized some peoples brains get to these meds. If you stick at 40mg/day for another 2.5 weeks you should know if its working or not. If not, try 50 mgs for another 3 weeks (im sure youll get those initial good feelings as soon as you increasy your dose but will go away. then you gotta wait the whole 3 weeks to see if the "real antidepressant effect" will kick in.
> > > > WHen I started at 50 mgs I went MANIC, very hyper very happy, so I dropped to 40 like I mentioned before. WHat happened was that it was those initial good feelings, not the real antidepressant effect that were too strong. The next shot at 50mgs after 3 weeks at 40mgs I could tolerate the good feelings for the first 3 days without going too manic. Then 3 weeks later, nothing. Once I hit 60 mgs I had the initial good feelings which went away after 2 days but the Real Antidepressant Effect kicked in after about 10 days at 60 mgs. ( I know I repeated alot of the same stuff ive said before, I guess im just making sure i was right in the first message)
> > > > As for weight it doest matter too too much like it does with Nardil. Nardil you can expect it to work at 1mg/kg of body weight. it Varies signifigantly for some people tho. if your 125lbs Id suspect 30 - 50mg's will work but youve already prooved 30 mgs does not. Just a note: it can take 6 weeks at each dose increase to know foresure that it will, or will not work. It just "usually" works within 2-3 weeks after youve been on a lower dose for 6 weeks. IM not gonna wait 6 weeks at every dose increase if it usually works after 3 when titrating up dosages. I have severe social Anxiety disorder which leads to depression and agoraphobia. Depression SUcks Dong and Anxiety ontop is a killer. ANd O mighty Parnate, The Last drug I have tried. This is almost my last resort. After this it will be on to Weird off label Pharmaceutical mixtures of my own making ahha. I Know Parnate isProbably The #1 best Antidepressant in the world. its not very good for Anxiety but thats for most people. it seems to be doing a great job on both. AND YES my days are split feeling. Morning I feel so sensitive I could cry at anything. Its not that bad I just have very over stimulated feelings. by afternoon i just like the antidepressant effect and anti anxiety.. Next Post Ill write a list of drugs that worked and did not and their issues. Hope this helps I love talking about it. Feel free to tell me lots more , I just gotta go here at the moment..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wait...its the weekend and your saying you have something better to do than talk to me? Well, frankly Phil, I'm hurt. So, I thought you were done titrating at 60mg. Do you expect to go higher? As for sensitivity and crying, and overstimulated feelings, bring it on. I've been numb for far too long. Time to face the music (I'm afraid to face the music).
> > >
> > > Sorry your depression "sucks dong" and your anxiety is killer. A bad combo. But you are still in remission tho, right? I didn't know you had anxiety for some reason. Did you have agoraphobia before, or did it come as a package deal with depression? Just rechecking our similarities. Mine is loss of most previous pleasures. I still like to breathe. I literally feel numb and lethargic. My emotions (or lack thereof) would be the most striking symptom. Total shut down, although I do feel agoraphobic and have anxiety if around other people at times. Never had either of those. Still sound familiar?
> > >
> > > So, other meds list can wait, I don't plan on going off Parnate any time soon, but I would like a back-up plan just in case. Little nervous about going up to 50mg but I will if thats what it takes.
> > >
> > > OK, you take care of business and I will chat with you next time!
> > >
> > > ~Jade
> > >
> > > PS-3 days of feeling normal to good, eves, not so much. May be wearing off. One step closer.....
> > >
> > I wrote alote here, but my med list is at the bottom of my post. If you get initial side effects from the parnate I hope to god you can wait them out till your body adapts to it, they will go away! mostly. and its worth it because who knows, maybe Parnate will work wonders when you get to you theraputic dose.
> >
> > Hey Jade! Yes im still in remission. No im not still titrating, I'm just assuming Parnate will start pooping out one day and I'll have to raise the dose up. Im a bit Cynical to Antidepressants.. they cause alot of bad BUT I know theyve done alot more good then bad when I think of where i would be without them.
> > Did I really hurt you when I had something else to do? Was it because you feel so bad... its all good , I can take it because Im doing well enough on parnate to actually let things fly like that even if its just a joke, or real. I used to be very very sensitive to public scrutiney (im not best speller) I still am underneath but it really shows Im doing well.
> > FACE THE MUSIC! Well I tell you what, Ive never had more feelings in my life. heres an example from a minute before i wrote this post - I heard on the radio a commercial thing, it was a lil skit. A guy told another guy at work that there was something wrong in the payroll department and that they couldnt find the guy's address to send his earnings to, the guy said oh, ok, ill get onto that and get back to you. Then the skit was over and the radio said something like: many people you know are homeless and youd never even be able to tell, a message from the sation." I was so moved and felt so sad for the guy I had a big lump in my throat and felt so human, it was nuts. Happy, sad, keen, enthusiastic etc etc, my days are full of all the feelings now. So completely opposite from before where I didnt care about anything. Before I could probably watch my mom cry and id be so numb it would nt bother me.. which led me deeper into depression cuz i would think how unemotional i was and a bad person.. Anyway. (a bit scary), You'll be OK i promise* just dont go watching heart wrenching movies every night and looking through old photo albums right away. I know those two things in particular make me so full of emotions I know when and when not to engage in it. The crying thing isnt out of sadness (well sometimes) but rather its because im bubling with feelings. My dad and grandpa was like that. my dad is normal but he'll cry watching a movie or when he's proud of something or happy. (Parnate is bringing them on maybe just a little too strong for me, but Hey! im not complaining at all:))
> > Your symtoms do sound familiar foresure. I know our initial diagnosis is different but I;ve felt the way you explain yourself sometimes. My Major problem (since i was probably 4) is social phobia/over analyzing myself/Panic attacks/depersonalization.. by college i couldnt cope anymore and became agoraphobic and didnt leave my house. I became depressed and lost all intersts except like u said i did breath. The only thing that got me up was to research the net for a reason and a cure. Walk in Clinic gave me Paxil 20mgs. Crazy side effects BUT within 2 weeks I was completely manic and back in class talking a million miles a minute, did some presentations (still were hard)as well made lots of new friends, did crazy things, Not a care in the world, I was NUTS lol. I loved it (except sex life was all gone). I got a great summmer job. so after 5 months of mania i decided to lower the dose. i got some withdrawl. Life once again SUCKED just like before so i did what any sane or insane person would do and raised Paxil back up. It didnt work ever again even with higher doses.. that was about seven years ago. ever since ive been looking for that "drug" to make me like I first felt on Paxil.
> > What I now know is being in a manic state isnt good either. Now I am sorta diagnosed ( from a few diff. psychiatrists), supposedly im: Bipolar2 with rapid cycling and have social phobia. I'm pretty sure im similar to every other depressive out there, I need an antidepressant and I know when it works and when it doesn't, even tho my diagnosis is different. I will get the AD effect sometimes and if I do Ill know if its the one I need or not.
> > list: Paxil 20mgs-worked but after that NO other SSRI ever worked again except odd times when I would think it was working for a few days (probably was just my bipolar).. Zoloft up to 200mgs, Celexa 20mgs, cipralex up to 30mgs (this one made me so tired I could sleep 23 hours a day on a hardwood floor), prozac60mgs, Wellbutrin SR 150mgs x 2 daily so 300mgs total/day. It made me very very interested in everthing I did and was very prosexual, I would stay up all night sometimes just reviewing and studying things for no reason but curiosity, I was a bit ignorant and self oriented, I was energized. it took 2 weeks to work fully but similar to Parnate when I began it)The anxiety Wellbutrin created was terrible so i had to quit. I tried Paxil again 30mgs with 300mgs of wellbutrin XL, it didnt work, Then I tried Effexor and it had the energizing feeling like parnate and wellbutrin (cuz all 3 act on NOREpiNephrine) but Effexor's energy and focus stayed from day 1 and lasted for 2 months, then it stopped working but I kept taking it. I turned to Alcohol With the Effexor and it would give me euphoria (Every SSRI I ever tried had wonderful euphoria when mixed with alcohol). I didnt drink at work so I was on effexor and having social phobia/panick attacks and was suffering with agoraphobia. Ultimately I Drunk a miki and 6 beer and took 4 mgs of xanax which led me to the hospital and loosing my job. I came home to parents house and drunk and partied with the effexor while i could. Then I tried Paxil AGAIN!! hahha dont ask why , i was crazy. didnt work. I cold turkey quit everything for a month. I felt great except the initial withdrawl but I felt human again and not numbed by ssris. by the end of the month I had a anxiety attack at a friends that lasted almost 2 days, I drove all the way home from college 10hrs and hid in our camping trailor with a botle of xanax, I went depressed, I wanted to die or be secluded in a cabin in the mountains forever.. I couldnt even talk to my parents. So I went to a clinic and immediately got a script for NARDIL.
> >
> > Phase 2: MAOI's. Nardil was ok, it worked but only at the highest FDA dose of 90mgs a day, it was full of side effects. It didnt work good enough so I drunk quite regularly. In my opinion it was the first thing to somewhat work since 6 years previous when Paxil initially worked.. I had 2 hospitalizations while on Nardil from my bipolar because i went psychotic, first time I was just stabilized and was ok after a week being in the ward. 2nd time I got put on lithium with Nardil. I got strucred environment in the hospital and when I left I was GREAT! Nardil is not too bad if you keep to a strict healthy lifestyle with good structure, Lithium made it work much better.
> > I quit because the side effects and lithium also is a weight gainer. So Walk in Clinic I went and got PARNATE YaY!
> > I did the switch within 24hrs.
> > Parnate: I find it to be the most powerful drug of them all and it works too. It is Notorious for pooping out, so your dosage goes up with time. Some people it never poops out.
> > Parnate gave me this: Im up early, I like to cook, read, work on stuff, bowshoot, have interesting conversations, a bright look on the future with asperations..... Parnate makes me Normal, Im liking it very much.
> > ALERTEC!!!!!!!!!!!! I took 150mg's of alertec with my noon dose of parnate and WOW! I was very constructive, VERY fast and felt unbelievably good.. probably a good choice to take a little when Parnate gives you the afternoon tired spells.
> >
> > Conclusion:
> > #1. Parnate
> > #2. Nardil
> > #3.Effexor - worked for 2 months wonderfully then stopped.
> > #4. Wellbutrin - Not good for me because I have anxiety but Great med that took me off the couch and into a creative worled where I was full of energy and capable and wanting to do all tasks in life, I wish it helped with anxiety, oh well.
> > #5. I think any ssri i would have tried first would have done the same as Paxil... so I have no good input on any SSRIS other then they work 30 % of the time and the rest of the people quite because side effects or it doesnt work.
> >
> > Non-Antidepressants ( a break down aswell)
> > #1.Alertec - energizing, long half life, antidepressant effect a bit, focus, good for ADD symptoms. (I've only used it when I need it, never on a daily dosing regime, which you can do)
> > #2. Clonazepam/xanax, Great for anxiety at doses above 2mg's for me. no AD effect:(
> > #3. Propanolol - Takes away ALL my physical symptoms of anxiety and panic, Only physical tho. very good too when i dont want to shake or have my heart racing. 40mg's as needed is good.
> > How are you feeling?
> > Your Friend Phil
>
> Oh Gosh, Phil, I'm sorry. I thought we were kinda joking around enough that you would know I was kidding! Believe me, it would REALLY take a lot to hurt my feelings right now. I should have been more careful tho, you're ahead of me and actually have feelings like a normal person. I better watch my joking and sarcasm. Not just with you. So you've been thru he*l and back sounds like. That was quite a story. I'm glad you're in such a better place now. One of my sons is bipolar I, he's been hospitalized 3 times for mania. He gave me a good scare. He was rapid cycling for nine months until we found right meds. He's such a great kid, you would like him. So sounds like between my depression and seeing close up Bipolar, I probably still can't even imagine what you've been thru emotionally. I'll have some serious losses to face when I wake up from this, I can see why people like us "go underground". I do think you just shut down. By the time you do, there is no easy way back. Even if Parnate works (I'm planning that it will!), I'll have some adjusting to do. Not complaining mind you, just a little scared of feeling anything. Oh, and btw? How refreshing that the men in your family can show their feelings! The world could use more Dad's like that. Sounds like you have a nice family. Oh, thanks for that med list, I think I'll feel better if I have a back-up plan in place. Not that I'll need it mind you. And about the side effects stopping me from taking Parnate? NO WAY!!! I'm going all the way till I feel like myself again. At worst, I'd probably add something. Maybe that "Alertec", don't know what it is! So, its after midnight, with Parnate I've been falling asleep sometimes in late afternoon/evening, then wake back up. And here I am! I'll write again soon when I'm more awake. Again, sorry if I confused you. I'm not fragile (right now) at all. You won't hurt my feelings and I hope I didn't hurt yours. I think your great!!!
>
> ~Jade
> >
>
Hi Lol, no you didnt hurt my feelings i just didnt know if u were serious or not.. sonds good. I want to clarify somethig.. Well I think ive been just a little over dramatic how well Parnate is working. These emotions I now feel are very powerful and hard to control. I completely believe it is because I am genetically predispositioned to be sensitive and a caring person (most people with social anxiety disorder are). Like I was saying before about my dad being quite emotional (in a good way tho). Because I am sensitive emotionally, the parnate has exasburated(spellin?? hhaha)my feeling above normal. Hey Im still not complaining! :) I'm better now then I have ever been. This morning I sat down to read a magazine and, MY GOD!, I would nearly want to cry at every sentence because it meant so much to me. I do, and do not like having this much feeling, a catch 22. I guess the only downfal is.. for example: I watched the movied Meet Joe Black with my girlfriend the other night . we were laying on the floor ,comphy. She put her head around the bottom of my rib cage. Now this is all fine and dandy but Its such a movie that It was so hard to keep my stomach muscles from contracting like I was about to cry every time I was moved by a scene. She must be thinking wow! this guy is a very deep and emotionally set man... Well Jade what do you think hey? I bet everyone out in our lands of depression are wishing they could feel so much, so im a hypocrite to some extent. PS. I was laughing alot aswell during the movie and a real blast to watch it with. I loved it. I just need to get these emotions under control. Im sure a little bit of cognital thinking/therapy will easily "fix" it.. hahah just enough so i dont walk down the street and see someone eating an apple then remembering my great grandpa had an apple tree and then get alll emotional and tears, crying, happpyness, etc etc.. lol. thats all.
How are you feeling? any mood changes? did you loose or gain any of the initial "good" responce from upping that dose a week ago?
Just a food for thought: If Parnate doesnt work as well as it will! (im pretty sure it will) You have the options of Nardil and Marplan. Marplan is between the two as how it works, a bit closer to Nardil. These 3 meds are the Big Boys when it come to an AD in a pill. Weight gain is just a bit of an issue with Nardil/Marplan. Everyone is different. I've also heard new talk of the SSRI Luvox doing quite well as for having less side effects. the TCA's Ive never tried but know that for most pple they have the worst side effects, like your walking around frothing at the mouth with jaw lock..
Can I ask a Question..: Have you tried so many meds (normal ones, not going way over the off label uses of other drugs) that Parnate is pretty much your last resort/hope? Because that is where I am. If in the future I get another episode and Parnate poops out I would have to go to Marplan and then maybe ECT if Marplan doest work. Then I assume IF NONE OF THOSE WORK! (Yes im good now, Parnate is working well, just ranting a lil) Id mix a Maoi with a TCA like nortriptyline. I could type endless possibilities forever but we dont have forever, life is too short... theres a bunch of other drugs out there to add aswell like NRI's(just noreadrenaline) or a DA Just a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, on their own or in combo.. K im going to shut up here! Lets just stick with our Parnate before going to crazy. Im doing well, and im so eager what the next weeks/ month or two will bring you..
Talkt to you soon
Phil
Posted by Phillipa on December 2, 2008, at 19:49:50
In reply to Re: Need advice! Nardil switch to Parnate!! » JadeKelly, posted by Nardilstarted 2007 on December 2, 2008, at 19:26:29
Sorry to interrupt but luvox has no side effects for me anyway just stay at low does. It was wierd first time took it in hospital as keep waiting for something bad to happen was also on benzos but nothing did got up to 250mg and felt great for a couple weeks then nothing. There is also a new time release version out now too. Love Phillipa
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