![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 40 to 64 of 124. Go back in thread:
Posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:25:30
In reply to nardil thoughts. why not to lower for maintenance, posted by cumulative on May 9, 2008, at 6:46:48
I'm sorry cumulative, but Ace's sentiments where?
I'm very anxious/nervous, and trying to see where this is first shared.
Can u help me pls?
tks
5f
Posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:49:22
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » simon79, posted by ace on May 9, 2008, at 0:00:43
Hi Ace. I'm 5f.
I've been w/o an AD for nearly a year and am in a full blown major depression ... seems like months. Just lie in bed. Feel like am literally dying. All abandon as think I seem attn, but this is so real. Diagnoses PTSD, borderline, atypical.(?) Long time back bit of help from SSRIs tho black holes lost cognitive awareness life value and unowhat occurred, tricyclics just nothing really, and I guess most effective was Effexor-XR, which have been on prob' 5x, each time reacting a little differently. No to its counterpart. Recently PCP upset at pdoc not agreeable to any AD for me, gave me Wellbutrin-XL and the nervousness was atrocious. Anxiety is a very major issue for me. All I'm on is a benzo, tho' may be shuffling in a state hospital if not for Valium when suffered an insult to my nervous system in 2005 after an overwhelming life event. So, alone here, literally wasting away. See all this re: Nardil. Pharmacist tonight said 'in all yrs as pharmacist, ur only second I've ever written this for. Inquired my med trials. When asked if I'd ever been tried on a combo therapy, seemed shocked when I said 'no'. I'ver seen a lot of pp here on them. I've heard of diff' ones. He said Wellbrutin-XL and Effexor-XR was a popular one.(?) I told him I'd heard fo Remeron and the prior. I am not psychotic. I am pretty highly cognitive. My body just seems to be giving up. I have a lot of love lost in the past five years; like 10pp. People believed loved me. Found diff'. Anyway, I want to see what yo say next here as the Nardil scrip is available to me Mon or Tue. I have been veryr reluctant re: it because, like I said, I am considered highly functioning. Althouh, no one has seen me lie here for these weeks on end now. Pdoc doesn't see it and I'm not sure he'd even believe it. I have always made sure I look as best as possible when walk out front door and take on the mindset I've driven a car and handled life for many yrs and cruise along as if nothing is wrong once out the door. When locked behind, I collapse again into bed. I cannot even awake now w/o Provigil. I am on SSD and had to get a food box Fri. My only support is a man w/ an illicit drug prob'; no I do not participate. I am very very careful not to abuse. But it's getting very hard. A terrible panic attack last eve; worse than ever experienced. Wonder try Nardil or push for a combo. Wonder maybe the other one, the other MAOI I see some may have mentioned as seeming to not create more anxiety, as this is a real important thing for me. Oh. Parnate. Yes. That's the one I'thinking of here. I will follow as you said you'd try get back here. Sometimes I can't open pute and read emails as the person above is here at night when I am scared to be alone. On way now.
tks 5f
Posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 11:20:37
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:49:22
> Hi Ace. I'm 5f.
>
> I've been w/o an AD for nearly a year and am in a full blown major depression ... seems like months. Just lie in bed. Feel like am literally dying. All abandon as think I seem attn, but this is so real. Diagnoses PTSD, borderline, atypical.(?) Long time back bit of help from SSRIs tho black holes lost cognitive awareness life value and unowhat occurred, tricyclics just nothing really, and I guess most effective was Effexor-XR, which have been on prob' 5x, each time reacting a little differently. No to its counterpart. Recently PCP upset at pdoc not agreeable to any AD for me, gave me Wellbutrin-XL and the nervousness was atrocious. Anxiety is a very major issue for me. All I'm on is a benzo, tho' may be shuffling in a state hospital if not for Valium when suffered an insult to my nervous system in 2005 after an overwhelming life event. So, alone here, literally wasting away. See all this re: Nardil. Pharmacist tonight said 'in all yrs as pharmacist, ur only second I've ever written this for. Inquired my med trials. When asked if I'd ever been tried on a combo therapy, seemed shocked when I said 'no'. I'ver seen a lot of pp here on them. I've heard of diff' ones. He said Wellbrutin-XL and Effexor-XR was a popular one.(?) I told him I'd heard fo Remeron and the prior. I am not psychotic. I am pretty highly cognitive. My body just seems to be giving up. I have a lot of love lost in the past five years; like 10pp. People believed loved me. Found diff'. Anyway, I want to see what yo say next here as the Nardil scrip is available to me Mon or Tue. I have been veryr reluctant re: it because, like I said, I am considered highly functioning. Althouh, no one has seen me lie here for these weeks on end now. Pdoc doesn't see it and I'm not sure he'd even believe it. I have always made sure I look as best as possible when walk out front door and take on the mindset I've driven a car and handled life for many yrs and cruise along as if nothing is wrong once out the door. When locked behind, I collapse again into bed. I cannot even awake now w/o Provigil. I am on SSD and had to get a food box Fri. My only support is a man w/ an illicit drug prob'; no I do not participate. I am very very careful not to abuse. But it's getting very hard. A terrible panic attack last eve; worse than ever experienced. Wonder try Nardil or push for a combo. Wonder maybe the other one, the other MAOI I see some may have mentioned as seeming to not create more anxiety, as this is a real important thing for me. Oh. Parnate. Yes. That's the one I'thinking of here. I will follow as you said you'd try get back here. Sometimes I can't open pute and read emails as the person above is here at night when I am scared to be alone. On way now.
>
> tks 5fSounds like you're in bad shape. Nardil is a big gun and maybe that will do the trick. I would think combo therapy takes longer to work out and sounds like you need some relief now.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 12:46:33
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:49:22
> Wonder try Nardil or push for a combo. Wonder maybe the other one, the other MAOI I see some may have mentioned as seeming to not create more anxiety, as this is a real important thing for me. Oh. Parnate. Yes. That's the one I'thinking of here. I will follow as you said you'd try get back here. Sometimes I can't open pute and read emails as the person above is here at night when I am scared to be alone. On way now.
>Nardil is generally better for anxiety than Parnate, which also seems to be associated with a higher risk of hypertensive events. On the other hand, Parnate is less likely to produce weight gain, lethargy, and elevation of liver enzymes, and has some stimulant-like qualities especially at higher doses.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 15:56:38
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 11:20:37
>
> Sounds like you're in bad shape. Nardil is a big gun and maybe that will do the trick. I would think combo therapy takes longer to work out and sounds like you need some relief now.
>Nardil typically takes weeks to give clear benefits.
Posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 22:29:09
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by simon79 on May 10, 2008, at 22:47:22
> Dear Ace,
> I have a quick question for you if you have time time answer that would be kool..
> I have always loved my beer, but starting clonazepam and nardil my doctor said to try to restrict a drinking sessions to 4 standard drinks per day orelse the meds with lose some of their eficacy. How much do you drink and if you drink more than this has you meds lost some of their eficacy?This brings back memories! Before I started Nardil I was drinking every day- large quantities. In order to go out, without anxiety, I had to be intoxicated. This was obviously detrimental to so many things.
I remeber talking about alcohol to my MD. I was very concerned that I wasn't going to be able to drink.....I didn't wan't to loose my alcohol!!!
After starting Nardil I stopped. After 6 weeks, I thought "this is way better than any beer!!" In 7 years (almost) I have been intoxicated twice....both times I drank tap beer (which is contraindicated) and I had no problems at all- except it gave me a heightened response to the alcohol.
To answer your question, I would most certainly AVOID alcohol whilst waiting for Nardil to kick in (certainly not have 4 drinks a day). I DO feel it can interfere, and I have seen evidence for this. I can't explain exactly why I'm sorry.
When Nardil kicks in, and I strongly feel it will!, I would advice to drink bottled beer (tyramine can accumulate in the pipes- resulting in a possible HT crises) I have mentioned this before. I would personally be moderate in my intake.
Do you drink in order to supress psychiatric syndromes, or is it a social thing??
Cheers mate.....I have the texts on me right now- see other message:)
Ace:)
> I'm ok with this because as everybody knows 1 beer on benzos = 2 beers for a person not on meds, and nardil probably increases the effect of alcohol also, but I do miss the occassional binge..
> Thanks a bunch :-)
>
>
Posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:19:05
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by simon79 on May 10, 2008, at 20:54:42
> Hi Ace,
> scoobydoo_126@hotmail.com
> Thanks a bunchCheers mate....I have dug them out! These files date back 7 years. At this stage I was printing out EVERY possible post/trial on Nardil, on any site, I could find (Heaven forbid, I might be just a tad obsessive!!!)
Reading through them again just verified what I have stated for the past years in regards to Nardil.....Out of all the anectodes, and it would take me a week to count them all!) I remember encountering 1-3 in which a person did not respond to Nardil- and even in these cases, I can see reasons why they would not have responded. I might sound very bias....but all this is on paper, in clinical trials, etc etc. It still amazes me.
Here we go..... In addition to these I have PDF's with no URL, which I will have to locate manually, as such....
I have many many more than I will show here, so please ask if you would like more....
1. ""MAO inhibitors:
An option worth trying in treatment-resistant cases """
Jonathan O. Cole, MD
Senior consultant in psychopharmacology
McLean Hospital, Belmont, MA
Professor of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School
J. Alexander Bodkin, MD
Chief, Clinical Psychopharmacology Research Program
McLean Hospital, Belmont, MA
Assistant professor of psychiatry, Harvard Medical School
This is an extremely good article....With regards to dose, HT crises and many other things.
"Phenelzine has the advantage that the effective dosage for depression is probably now knownmore than 1 mg/kg body weightalthough in three earlier large negative controlled studies, the effective dosage was not known and too little was given for too short a period. Weight gain and hypotension may be more common with this drug than with other MAOIs"
This statement is particulary significant.
Please locate the article here, and show your psychiatrist.....
http://www.drtonyromack.com/MAOIs.htm
2. Phenelzine 60 mg Effective: 30 mg little benefit. but 60mg helps 70% depressed. If no response in 6 weeks, increased to 75-90mg/d for fast acetylators.Lewis Ravaris, U Vermont.
(Much more great info in this)
3. b) Efficacy. MAOIs have been studied in patients with borderline personality disorder in three placebo-controlled acute treatment trials (5557).
...
Cowdry and Gardner (55) noted that, "the MAOI proved to be the most effective psychopharmacological agent overall, with clear effects on mood and less prominent effects on behavioral control."http://www.aapel.org/bdp/BLpharmacotherapyUS.html#maoi
(I do NOT agree with certain things stated here)
I have got many more here right next to me...I just got to run...let me know how you go with these!A final word from a fellow psychobabbler!....
"I will never forget what one of the Godfathers of nardil told me, Dr. Fredick Quitken .... "Nardil works for 90% of patients, but only 25% of patients can stay on it and tolerate the side effects. "
Smith
NB- I actually think the s/effects can be managed! They can be a nuiscance at times though...
Ace:)
Posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:22:29
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by undopaminergic on May 10, 2008, at 2:59:15
> >
> >
> > Not a problem mate!...I have located the papers, will get them to you by Monday- I am just away from home at the moment....would I be able to grab your email?
> >
>
> I too might be interested in any good papers you have on the topic of MAOIs, so while you're at it, maybe you could provide (post, or send via the Babblemail feature) more specific details on what you have?Not a problem...I have a stack right near me now....I have files full of anectodes and MAOI trials (on all sorts of psychopathologies)....I have to get them all organized....
I just presented a couple, but I also have many many more (including some which are out of journals which can not be located on web)Let me know:)
Ace
Posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:24:19
In reply to Re: nardil thoughts. why not to lower for maintenance » ace, posted by Phillipa on May 10, 2008, at 19:48:11
> Ace Chairman got blocked for a long time forget for what. Love Phillipa
Is Larry still around? Remeber Ross C, Djmmm, Csosis, Jumpy??....I havent seen these Nardil boys around for a while! Scot (SLS) is still posting?
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2008, at 23:47:44
In reply to Re: nardil thoughts. why not to lower for maintenance » Phillipa, posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:24:19
Ace Scott is in remission but is posting if you check you will find him on the board now. Lar posted a link today. So yes the other's don't know. Love Phillipa your Queen.
Posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:55:29
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:49:22
> Hi Ace. I'm 5f.
>
> I've been w/o an AD for nearly a year and am in a full blown major depression ... seems like months. Just lie in bed. Feel like am literally dying.I'm am sorry to here this, and I can empathise- it is clear that you are suffereing a clinical depression and you need immediate help to extricate yourself from this. At this point in time, I would personally not 'push' yourself to do anything other than seek treatment. I would say lie in bed, and don't force yourself to do things- other than, as I stated, seek help ASAP
At the moment these words probably mean little, but there is hope. I have seen again and again that the most chronic of depressions can be releaved, and you can enjoy life now. Try to have hope, but don't force yourself to try and feel it.
All abandon as think I seem attn, but this is so real.
I'm sorry, I don't understand this statement...
Diagnoses PTSD, borderline, atypical.
I personally feel don't worry to much about these 'labels', just pinpoint your feelings, and look at these...
(?) Long time back bit of help from SSRIs tho black holes lost cognitive awareness life value and unowhat occurred, tricyclics just nothing really, and I guess most effective was Effexor-XR, which have been on prob' 5x, each time reacting a little differently. No to its counterpart. Recently PCP upset at pdoc not agreeable to any AD for me, gave me Wellbutrin-XL and the nervousness was atrocious.I couldn't understand that all, but basically it sounds as if you have had inadequate treatment again and again.
Anxiety is a very major issue for me. All I'm on is a benzo,
This is good. I am a big fan of benzo's. I would definately stay put on this. If you feel too higher your dose for a while, I would not worry too much. Once you get well again, you can lower it, if needed.
tho' may be shuffling in a state hospital if not for Valium when suffered an insult to my nervous system in 2005 after an overwhelming life event. So, alone here, literally wasting away. See all this re: Nardil. Pharmacist tonight said 'in all yrs as pharmacist, ur only second I've ever written this for.
This doesn't suprise me. I wouldn't let that comment worry you but.
Inquired my med trials. When asked if I'd ever been tried on a combo therapy, seemed shocked when I said 'no'. I'ver seen a lot of pp here on them. I've heard of diff' ones. He said Wellbrutin-XL and Effexor-XR was a popular one.(?)There is so so so many combos you could try....however, i would feel it best that nardil be within the combo, as such...
I told him I'd heard fo Remeron and the prior. I am not psychotic. I am pretty highly cognitive. My body just seems to be giving up. I have a lot of love lost in the past five years; like 10pp. People believed loved me. Found diff'. Anyway, I want to see what yo say next here as the Nardil scrip is available to me Mon or Tue.
I am really sorry you have had these bad life experiences. It's not easy, but all i can say is hang in there. You don't sound psychotic to me at all, but I feel I can 'see' through your writing style, the emotions you are feeling The great thing, is that you are on Nardil.
I have been veryr reluctant re: it because, like I said, I am considered highly functioning. Althouh, no one has seen me lie here for these weeks on end now. Pdoc doesn't see it and I'm not sure he'd even believe it. I have always made sure I look as best as possible when walk out front door and take on the mindset I've driven a car and handled life for many yrs and cruise along as if nothing is wrong once out the door. When locked behind, I collapse again into bed. I cannot even awake now w/o Provigil. I am on SSD and had to get a food box Fri. My only support is a man w/ an illicit drug prob'; no I do not participate. I am very very careful not to abuse. But it's getting very hard. A terrible panic attack last eve; worse than ever experienced. Wonder try Nardil or push for a combo. Wonder maybe the other one, the other MAOI I see some may have mentioned as seeming to not create more anxiety, as this is a real important thing for me. Oh. Parnate. Yes. That's the one I'thinking of here. I will follow as you said you'd try get back here. Sometimes I can't open pute and read emails as the person above is here at night when I am scared to be alone. On way now.
>
> tks 5f
OK, I feel you essential need treatment ASAP, as I stated many times. I would suggest Nardil with a fast titration, up to a maximum of 60mg within 2 week, if you can tolerate any s/effects. On top of that i would suggest you continue with Valium (or another benzo) at a dose required. The drug TRAMADOL can also be of benefit (on a short term basis). Also your anxiety may warrent a low dose anti-psychotic treatment, for a short period of time. Th AP can also facilitate a faster onset (in some cases) of Nardil.Also, it seems as if you need family and close friends around to listen to you, without offering endless advice and possibley telling you all the great things you have in life. Is it possible to speak to anyone about your problems with no censorship? I would certainly stay away from all illicit driugs an alcohol absolutely.
If things get too bad, I suggest ringing emergency. Let people know you feel this way. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. You have 100% right to your feelings.
I really hope this helps in some way.
Just say to yourself 'hang-on', again and again. Even when you feel like you would rather dissapear.
Please let me know how you are. Nothing is a substitute for talking face to face with a loved one, but I also think it's great if you chat to others on this site- really wonderful people here.
And I think it's actually a great thing that you made the effort to post here.
My thoughts are with you,
Ace:)
Posted by cumulative on May 13, 2008, at 7:13:17
In reply to Re: nardil thoughts. why not to lower for maintenance, posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:25:30
Hi fivefires,
Ace has expressed the opinion, which I agree with, that the Nardil dose should NOT, unlike what some have suggested, be lowered upon reaching a dose that is effective as an antidepressant.
One post of his is his response, above, here: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20080430/msgs/828302.html
I have a lot of empathy for your situation. It seems as if we are similar. I think that Nardil has the potential of being helpful for you.
What you need to keep in mind is that Nardil, as many here have said, usually takes at least 6 weeks to become effective, and the early side effects can be troubling. Hang in there! Keep posting to us. I'm never been very good at giving emotional support, but remember that all of us are here for you.
Posted by Simon79 on May 14, 2008, at 0:00:57
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » simon79, posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 22:29:09
Thanks for taking the time to respond ace!
You are a mentor to me, and provide me with encouragement and knowledge which is hugely beneficial to myself and other people reading my posts
I only have 3/4 drinks a day every week or two at the moment when I'm out with friends
and pretty much every other day i drink nothing
My psychiatrist said try to limint my drinking to 3/4 units of alcohol.. most beers in NZ are 1.3 units so that equates to 3 beers = 4 standard drinks
Yeah I drink to supress the psychiatric symptoms which usually takes about 3 units to overcome with the benzos i'm taking.. and the 4th allows me to relax and have a conversation with without my mind being quite so paralyzed with anxiety. The alcohol reduction is/will be much harder for me than the side effects, but hopefully when the nardil kicks in i won't need so much alcohol to socialise without being completely crippled by anxiety.I hope I'm not bugging you too much but I have one last question and you are such a wealth of knowledge I thought I would give it a shot
Do you think if somebody has had severe social anxiety such as I have for 10 years (and overcome most of it (i think i will)) if they have a baby the baby would develope social anxiety also? My psychologist reckons my social anxiety is larely a psychological problem (psychologists 4 ya) but he acknowledges that part of the problem is that I am more genetically vulnerable to anxiety than most (genes). I just don't want 2 have a child and for them to have to go through the ten years of hell I have been through, I think it would be unfair on the child, and selfish on my part for wanting to have a kid without thinking about the potential hell/suffering they might go through. Do you have any children? Did they develope social anxiety? What's your take/opinion/advice on this issue? The reason I am asking this is because guys want to have gf's, and gf's eventually want to get married and many want to have a child.
My opinion is that if my partner is not genetically susceptible to anxiety then the child should be alright because the child we be inheriting only half of my genes and social anxiety is half genetic and half psychological also I believe.P.s thanks for the clinical trials on nardil
Simon79
This brings back memories! Before I started Nardil I was drinking every day- large quantities. In order to go out, without anxiety, I had to be intoxicated. This was obviously detrimental to so many things.I remeber talking about alcohol to my MD. I was very concerned that I wasn't going to be able to drink.....I didn't wan't to loose my alcohol!!!
After starting Nardil I stopped. After 6 weeks, I thought "this is way better than any beer!!" In 7 years (almost) I have been intoxicated twice....both times I drank tap beer (which is contraindicated) and I had no problems at all- except it gave me a heightened response to the alcohol.
To answer your question, I would most certainly AVOID alcohol whilst waiting for Nardil to kick in (certainly not have 4 drinks a day). I DO feel it can interfere, and I have seen evidence for this. I can't explain exactly why I'm sorry.
When Nardil kicks in, and I strongly feel it will!, I would advice to drink bottled beer (tyramine can accumulate in the pipes- resulting in a possible HT crises) I have mentioned this before. I would personally be moderate in my intake.
Do you drink in order to supress psychiatric syndromes, or is it a social thing??
Posted by Fivefires on May 14, 2008, at 6:31:50
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by bulldog2 on May 11, 2008, at 11:20:37
Ace please, need help badly and cannot find even though have made every attempt feasible.
Know asking a lot, but will you please contact me via the babblemail feature .....
5f
Posted by Fivefires on May 14, 2008, at 23:16:13
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by undopaminergic on May 11, 2008, at 15:56:38
OH no ... i just found these hidden.
Had to hide them over weekend.
Very sorry have not addressed.
I'm on Nardil now; zombie, and very sick to stomach.
5f
Posted by Fivefires on May 14, 2008, at 23:27:02
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » simon79, posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:19:05
In link, said
Phenelzine has the advantage that the effective dosage for depression is probably now knownmore than 1 mg/kg body weight
So, how much for 112lbs?????
I'm so out of it couldn't read much more.
5f
Posted by sdb on May 15, 2008, at 17:00:31
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 14, 2008, at 23:27:02
if this is the way that makes you most happy (without meds also) then stay the course.
warm regards
sdb
Posted by undopaminergic on May 15, 2008, at 17:40:35
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... » Fivefires, posted by ace on May 11, 2008, at 23:55:29
>
> I would suggest Nardil with a fast titration, up to a maximum of 60mg within 2 week, if you can tolerate any s/effects. On top of that i would suggest you continue with Valium (or another benzo) at a dose required. The drug TRAMADOL can also be of benefit (on a short term basis).
>The use of tramadol under treatment with phenelzine (Nardil) or other potent MAOI should be approached with great caution, as the combination of monoamine oxidase inhibition with the serotonin reuptake inhibition of tramadol has the potential to precipitate the serotonin syndrome. If an opioid would be of use, codeine, oxycodone or any other drug free of serotonergic activity is safer.
Posted by undopaminergic on May 15, 2008, at 17:50:30
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Simon79 on May 14, 2008, at 0:00:57
>
> Yeah I drink to supress the psychiatric symptoms which usually takes about 3 units to overcome with the benzos i'm taking.. and the 4th allows me to relax and have a conversation with without my mind being quite so paralyzed with anxiety.
>You may find codeine or another opioid to be a more useful alternative. Although opioids share the potential for tolerance and dependence with alcohol, they are less prone to impairing cognition and psychomotor performance.
Posted by lady scruffe on May 16, 2008, at 16:33:14
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 11, 2008, at 0:49:22
I have been on all psych drugs/augmented ect (seen numerous Docs, did ECT - NO ONE should do ECT. It gives new meaning to "the surgery was a success but the patient died")for the last 6 yrs (treatment resistent depression/GAD disabled from this since 2002) except MAOI's until about a month ago when I was on Parnate for 30 days. Even though I followed diet restrictions religiously - I ended up in the ER (ER Doc had no knowledge of this old class of drugs and went online in order to treat me) with high BP and my head about to explode from pain.I am starting Nardil tomorrow - please tell me
Weight gain?
Other side effects?
I am scared of this since my previous experience. Thanks
Posted by Fivefires on May 17, 2008, at 3:50:12
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever....... }} ace, posted by sdb on May 15, 2008, at 17:00:31
I dont get but think you're trying to say more 'sdb'? To me?
I am not happy feelin' like a zombie ... way not me. Others around me may be happy about it though .. ha!
Let me know if I'm picking up on something u think important pls.
It was suggested I titrate up more slowly and decided to do so today.
Any1 say why 'yogurt' is a no-no? I am lactose intolerant. I must use 'soy milk w/ cereal, cooking, etc.' Take a lot of Lactase.
Any knowledge/thots appreciated. Glad Ace has soemthing IRL 2b doin this Fri nite; it's isolating and desolute here. Wish I was living on a brick-paved street and could see flashing lights across the street.
My environment is conducive to lethargy, so any 'excitement thrown this way' 'anything to keep my brain and body moving' appreciated!
best2alloverwkend
5f
Posted by Fivefires on May 17, 2008, at 3:59:33
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by undopaminergic on May 15, 2008, at 17:40:35
>I would suggest Nardil with a fast titration, up to a maximum of 60mg within 2 week, if you can tolerate any s/effects.>I weight 110lbs ud. I'd not argue if were inpatient or w/ someone here w/ me. I can barely function 15mg 3xaday so goign back to 2xaday ths first week.
> On top of that i would suggest you continue with Valium (or another benzo) at a dose required.>
Gotcha there.
>The drug TRAMADOL can also be of benefit (on a short term basis). The use of tramadol under treatment with phenelzine (Nardil) or other potent MAOI should be approached with great caution, as the combination of monoamine oxidase inhibition with the serotonin reuptake inhibition of tramadol has the potential to precipitate the serotonin syndrome.>
Oh .. well best I not use unless an absolute then assume.
>If an opioid would be of use, codeine, oxycodone or any other drug free of serotonergic activity is safer.>
I'm on oxycodone. I was telling a fam' member I felt I might be lucky to be on such at this time as I've felt 'the all over ache' w/ Nardil. I wrote down Tramadol. I think it's a pain med so I prob' not need, but will try google. (I've got a lot of notes to self lying around my keyboard here, 'if ya get my drift'?) o_o
tks for the knowledge here ud,
5f
Posted by ace on May 19, 2008, at 1:31:30
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Fivefires on May 14, 2008, at 6:31:50
> Ace please, need help badly and cannot find even though have made every attempt feasible.
>
> Know asking a lot, but will you please contact me via the babblemail feature .....
>
> 5fSure- what is the babble feature??
Hang on there.....
God Bless,
Ace
Posted by ace on May 19, 2008, at 1:59:09
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by Simon79 on May 14, 2008, at 0:00:57
> I hope I'm not bugging you too muchNot possible!
but I have one last question and you are such a wealth of knowledge I thought I would give it a shot
> Do you think if somebody has had severe social anxiety such as I have for 10 years (and overcome most of it (i think i will)) if they have a baby the baby would develope social anxiety also?These is an extremely hard qstn to answer in a unequivocal way as there are so many variables in question. However, I would say there is a high chance. Now, I feel strongly that what set your psychiatric syndrome off (in this case, we are talking about Social Anxiety) was a trauma that caused a subtle change in brain biochemistry which got worse over time (and, more than likely, added to via further trauma) I think you were born with a certain vunrebality with regards your biochemistry (of the brain)
For example: Some people are born with big broad shoulders, some are board with much less broad shoulders.
Analogous to this, is the brain. I feel some are born with staunch biochemistry which can withstand extrenal trauma (even to a great degree) Unfortunately, others are born with a 'weaker' biochemistry...just waiting for a trauma to cause a lesion/inbalance in the brain.
That is just life. No one is better than anyone else I feel. I remember painfully when my Mum called me 'stupid' in a angry voice, for not being able to tie my shoelaces correctly when I was younger. But the same happened with my brother and it did not have such an effect on him.
This isn't my dear Mums fault- it is no ones fault I feel. it' life.
Now, depending on your husbands/partners biological make-up, we see your situation.I feel it is definately likely- even more so if your husband/partner does suffer psychiatric illness.
But it is not definite!
I would suggest treating the child with the utmost care (which I am sure you would!)- maybe when Mothers get so stressed at times, they can express anger at the child- I would advice against this- but life is hard!
My psychologist reckons my social anxiety is larely a psychological problem (psychologists 4 ya) but he acknowledges that part of the problem is that I am more genetically vulnerable to anxiety than most (genes).
There is a huge debate with regards to genes and mental illness. I am certain there is genetic factors involved...but proving it, as well as any psychiatric illness, is not going to be easy.I am not a fan of psychology at all! I feel it is cruel to say that severe mental illnees is 'psychological', and the patient must work against the symptoms. This really makes things worse, from what I have seen! I think accept the symptoms, all the time knowing you are not to blame, and you are just as good as anyone. Don't try to struggle and 'fight' against the symptoms, I feel. Let medication do it's job, and seek out friends, family, etc etc etc
I just don't want 2 have a child and for them to have to go through the ten years of hell I have been through, I think it would be unfair on the child, and selfish on my part for wanting to have a kid without thinking about the potential hell/suffering they might go through.I understand. This is an admirable attitude. But you have already thought about about the potential for the child to feel pain!!!
There is no 100% guarantee that the child would inherit similiar problems. And if they did, that is not your fault, and they can be dealed with. Life brings us so much! I think it would be MORE unfair to deny yourself the right to procreate....Do you have any children?
No I don't. But I absolutely intend too. I'm enough of a child myself still at the moment!!!
Did they develope social anxiety? What's your take/opinion/advice on this issue? The reason I am asking this is because guys want to have gf's, and gf's eventually want to get married and many want to have a child.
> My opinion is that if my partner is not genetically susceptible to anxiety then the child should be alright because the child we be inheriting only half of my genes and social anxiety is half genetic and half psychological also I believe.I see what your saying here. Sorry i didn't read this before answering above! You do seem very worried and anxious about this issue...a lot of rumination on this? It's so hard- I would not try to analyse genetic factors, and try to predict whether your child would have a similiar condition. I really feel you will just get so anxious about it. And, unfortunately, science can't provide the answers. I think you have a responsible and caring attitude, and, if your child developed a similiar problem, you would be such a great Doctor to him/her!
I really hope this helps, please stay in touch....!God Bless You,
Andrew
> P.s thanks for the clinical trials on nardil
> Simon79
>
>
> This brings back memories! Before I started Nardil I was drinking every day- large quantities. In order to go out, without anxiety, I had to be intoxicated. This was obviously detrimental to so many things.
>
> I remeber talking about alcohol to my MD. I was very concerned that I wasn't going to be able to drink.....I didn't wan't to loose my alcohol!!!
>
> After starting Nardil I stopped. After 6 weeks, I thought "this is way better than any beer!!" In 7 years (almost) I have been intoxicated twice....both times I drank tap beer (which is contraindicated) and I had no problems at all- except it gave me a heightened response to the alcohol.
>
> To answer your question, I would most certainly AVOID alcohol whilst waiting for Nardil to kick in (certainly not have 4 drinks a day). I DO feel it can interfere, and I have seen evidence for this. I can't explain exactly why I'm sorry.
>
> When Nardil kicks in, and I strongly feel it will!, I would advice to drink bottled beer (tyramine can accumulate in the pipes- resulting in a possible HT crises) I have mentioned this before. I would personally be moderate in my intake.
>
> Do you drink in order to supress psychiatric syndromes, or is it a social thing??
>
>
Posted by ace on May 19, 2008, at 2:10:49
In reply to Re: Nardil- The best AD ever......., posted by lady scruffe on May 16, 2008, at 16:33:14
> I have been on all psych drugs/augmented ect (seen numerous Docs, did ECT - NO ONE should do ECT. It gives new meaning to "the surgery was a success but the patient died")for the last 6 yrs (treatment resistent depression/GAD disabled from this since 2002) except MAOI's until about a month ago when I was on Parnate for 30 days. Even though I followed diet restrictions religiously - I ended up in the ER (ER Doc had no knowledge of this old class of drugs and went online in order to treat me) with high BP and my head about to explode from pain.I am starting Nardil tomorrow - please tell me
Glad to here you are on Nardil!
> Weight gain?
Yes, very possible. BUT, usually treatable with certain agents, and vigilance to diet/exercise regime.
> Other side effects?To be fair, there is a lot. However, many of these are short term, and most, if not all are manageble.
The ones I notice most, and myself experienced...
*Weight Increase
(Increased desire to eat sweet foods///? Metabolism changes)
*Anorgasmia
*Constipation (and possibly other GI probs)
*Sedation (although some get insomnia)
*Dizziness and Postural Hypotension (faded quickly)
There are more....All thes s/effecst are gone now with myself, except GI probs. I still get sedation but, which I like.I look back on the s/effects and I really love the fact I had them for some reason! It just reminds of the early days on this Gem of a medication!
> I am scared of this since my previous experience. Thanks
Try not be scared.....For hypertensive crises I have noticed far more risk with parnate.....
I would recommend nifedipine...many more some C. Channel Blockers......hope all goes well!!!!!!!!!
Ace:)
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