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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by lunesta on April 3, 2005, at 11:32:12
In reply to Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:01:59
nicotine itself or smoking? i was gonna say cigarettes are known MAO inhibitors. If its just nicotine itself, i would say something to do with nicotinic receptors which actually are important and exist.
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:39:02
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric pro, posted by lunesta on April 3, 2005, at 11:32:12
Just nicotine. 1mg 3 times a day. Plus some melatonin at night to sensitize the 5-ht1a receptors.
I just feel normal. My mood is seemless, my mind doesn't race as it does on antidepressants, and I can concentrate.
Sure its addictive, but in my oppinion so are AD's.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:55:44
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric pro, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:39:02
After taking nicotine I feel all sorts of activity in my head. I feel a pull to the front of my head, and all of a sudden I feel in my body and I cannot sense anything that is happening in my head. All the wacky sensations are gone.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on April 3, 2005, at 12:46:10
In reply to Oh, and it eliminated my headaches, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:55:44
Hi Link!
I'm really glad to hear that you're feeling better :-)
What dose of clomipramine are you on? Any side effects? I hope not!
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by rod on April 3, 2005, at 13:10:06
In reply to Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:01:59
> Nicotine is by far the best antidepressant I have taken. It helps my anxiety and my motivation without causing any side effects. It supposedly is a potent 5-ht1a agonist.
>cool !
> Why cant we just have a really strong 5-ht1a agonist. Why load numerous receptors with serotonin when only one needs it ??
>
>
> LinkadgeHmm correct me if a am wrong, but as far as I know (a doc once told me), the different SSRIs have also different affinities within the 5-ht receptor family. Citalopram for example, has the biggest diffenerce in affinity to the 1A versus the rest (it "prefers" the 1A reuptake pump). Prozac ist the most unselective of the SSRIs.
I have read (but cant find the link) that even Clomipramine "prefers" the 1A receptor more than the other ones like 5-ht5, h-ht7 etc. The "selective" in the term SSRI does not mean its a serotonin only drug but it has selective effect within the 5-ht receptor family.Maybe someone knows something like a chart, with the affinities within the 5-ht family for different drugs are listed?
And correct me if I got fooled by this doc :-)
Roland
Posted by TamaraJ on April 3, 2005, at 13:24:22
In reply to Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:01:59
Hi,
Here is a link to an article that talks about how nicotine affects the various neurotransmitters in the brain. It is quite interesting.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par16.htm
Tamara
Posted by Spriggy on April 3, 2005, at 13:35:37
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on April 3, 2005, at 13:24:22
Okay, well it looks like I will have to pick up a new habit. LOL
NO wonder my dad loves his cigarettes so much. He even takes off his oxygen so he can smoke one ( he has COPD/emphysema).
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 13:51:11
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by Spriggy on April 3, 2005, at 13:35:37
One of the problems, is that I am at my wits end with antidepressants.
Clomipramine helps somewhat but it makes me *VERY* dumb. Dumb to the point that I panic, because I can't remember the simplest things.
Kind of paradoxical but its true.Not to mention the fact that I can't walk straight on it.
Not sure where to go now.
Off all antidepressants, I am not terribly depressed as much as I am anxious. I would really like to try buspar but unfortunately
doctors don't really like to prescribe that one anymore.Nicotine really helps my anxiety which makes me surprised.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on April 3, 2005, at 14:19:23
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 13:51:11
Hi,
>Clomipramine helps somewhat but it makes me *VERY* dumb........
Clomipramine's very anticholinergic, it can worsen memory. You could try one of the less anticholinergic TCAs. What about nortriptyline?
>Dumb to the point that I panic, because I can't remember the simplest things.
Kind of paradoxical but its true.The same thing sometimes happens to me with benzodiazepines.
>Off all antidepressants, I am not terribly depressed as much as I am anxious......
I still think you should consider Nardil! MAOIs are often effective for anxiety.
>I would really like to try buspar but unfortunately doctors don't really like to prescribe that one anymore.
It's got a good safety record, I'm pretty sure they'd prescribe it if you asked.
>Nicotine really helps my anxiety which makes me surprised.
Are you using the gum?
Kind regards,
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 15:34:33
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on April 3, 2005, at 14:19:23
Yes, I'm using the gum.
I would certainly try nardil if a doctor prescribed it. Unfortunately they are very hesitant to do so around here.
Linkadge
Posted by TamaraJ on April 3, 2005, at 15:47:05
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 15:34:33
I have seen ads for time-released nicotine lozenges (in 2mg and 4mg strengths I think). However, I don't think the product is available in Canada yet. I have been looking into ordering the lozenges (Commit Lozenges) over the net to help me quit smoking, instead of the gum or the patch.
If I wasn't a smoker and nicotine gum, the patch or the lozenge helped my depression/anxiety, then I would probably use it as well. It's addictive, but so is coffee. And, it's not like you are actually smoking and getting all the nasty carcinogens that come with that. If nicotine helps, then that's great.
Tamara
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 16:04:12
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on April 3, 2005, at 15:47:05
I'm thinking of trying nicotine in conjunction with periactin at night.
I think that a good combination for depression would be a 5-ht1a agonist coupled with a 5-ht2a antagonist.
Linkadge
Posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2005, at 16:11:25
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 16:04:12
what does the periactin do?
Posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 17:57:34
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by FredPotter on April 3, 2005, at 16:11:25
Periactin is an atypical antihistamine. It blocks the 5-ht2a receptors fairly potently.
Linkadge
Posted by Mistermindmasta on April 4, 2005, at 0:39:03
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric pro » linkadge, posted by rod on April 3, 2005, at 13:10:06
SSRI's all inhibit the reuptake of serotonin by blocking the reuptake pump; essentially, we have a reuptake pump antagonist, of which there are no variations of this pump. However, then you get into the actual receptors themselves, which SSRI's also effect. I believe this is what you're getting at? Prozac has action at the 5-HT3C receptor I think, and the SSRI's do effect the other various receptors, but as I recall, none of them effect the 1a receptor. Sometimes SSRI's are augmented with Buspar because it is a 1a agonist.
I think nicotine's antidepressant effect comes from the fact that activation of the nicotinic receptors induces PROLONGED activation of dopaminergic receptors in the reward region of the brain, as opposed to having a quick action then dissapppearing. I might be wrong on this... it might be the MAO action, but then why aren't certain foods not allowed when smoking? It can't be the MAO activity, unless it's restricted to MAO-B. I don't know.
Posted by TamaraJ on April 4, 2005, at 9:47:37
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric pro, posted by Mistermindmasta on April 4, 2005, at 0:39:03
> I think nicotine's antidepressant effect comes from the fact that activation of the nicotinic receptors induces PROLONGED activation of dopaminergic receptors in the reward region of the brain, as opposed to having a quick action then dissapppearing. I might be wrong on this... it might be the MAO action, but then why aren't certain foods not allowed when smoking? It can't be the MAO activity, unless it's restricted to MAO-B. I don't know.
~~~ This is extracted on an article I had found on the effects of nicotine.
"Monoamine Oxidase type B (MAO-B) is one of the enzymes responsible for degrading dopamine. It's been known for some time that cigarette smoke has the capability of irreversibly inhibiting MAO-B (20). And while nicotine metabolite concentration is inversely proportional to MAO-B levels, nicotine itself does not inhibit MAO-B (21). Inhibition of MAO-B compounded by nicotine's effects on dopamine release is probably one of the primary reasons why cigarettes are so rewarding and might add to their effect on body composition. In order to potentiate nicotine's dopaminergic action without smoking, one could take the MAO-B inhibitor l-deprenyl. Also, since l-deprenyl has dopamine re-uptake blocking activity (22), it would provide a double mechanism for making nicotine's effect on dopamine more pronounced."
(full article can be found at:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par16.htm)
Posted by rod on April 4, 2005, at 10:48:32
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric pro, posted by Mistermindmasta on April 4, 2005, at 0:39:03
> SSRI's all inhibit the reuptake of serotonin by blocking the reuptake pump; essentially, we have a reuptake pump antagonist, of which there are no variations of this pump. However, then you get into the actual receptors themselves, which SSRI's also effect. I believe this is what you're getting at? Prozac has action at the 5-HT3C receptor I think, and the SSRI's do effect the other various receptors, but as I recall, none of them effect the 1a receptor. Sometimes SSRI's are augmented with Buspar because it is a 1a agonist.
>
outchYou are right. There seems to be just one Serotonin transporter.
Think I got it wrong or the doc didnt know it by himself (I guess the former is true :) )
thanks for clarifying this
bye
Posted by tendency on April 4, 2005, at 13:31:55
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 16:04:12
> I'm thinking of trying nicotine in conjunction with periactin at night.
>
> Linkadgecan you get the gum and the pathch or the lozenges OTC?
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 17:34:04
In reply to Re: do you need a prescription? » linkadge, posted by tendency on April 4, 2005, at 13:31:55
>can you get the gum and the pathch or the lozenges OTC?
You can in the UK! Don't know about anywhere else. We've got nicotine sublingual tablets, gum, patches, nasal spray, inhaler and lozenges.
Ed.
Posted by tendency on April 4, 2005, at 18:21:40
In reply to Re: do you need a prescription? » tendency, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 17:34:04
> >can you get the gum and the pathch or the lozenges OTC?
>
> You can in the UK! Don't know about anywhere else. We've got nicotine sublingual tablets, gum, patches, nasal spray, inhaler and lozenges.
>
> Ed.
>yeah, same here in the states. i was a little impatient which caused the post.
i got some of the 2mg gum and ill try it out over the next day or so to see if it helps my anxiety and depression.
seems you have to chew it like tobacco - chew on it then keep it pinched between cheek and gum.
in the past nicotine always made me a little nauseous so ill wait and see.
Posted by bipolarspectrum on April 4, 2005, at 18:37:11
In reply to Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:01:59
Hello everyone,
I understand that nicotine is showing promise in helping those with OCD...check out pubmed under nicotine and ocd... potentially related to its effects on memory...
bps
Posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:26:17
In reply to Re: Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on April 3, 2005, at 14:19:23
Ed, I believe I read that Buspar was actually being worked on as an antipsychotic originally, because of it's dopamine blocking at D receptors. But, they needed HUGE doses, and that caused a lot of problems. So, I think it is actually used in some ways like the atypical antipsychotics are, in small doses for anxiety or sleep. I got my Pdoc once to get me up to 60mg's a day of Buspar, and ya it did have some 'trippy' effects, but also some dysphoria and very, very hungry feeling. Also...I mind as well say this...the second night on this, I was on my 3rd week of dating this gal, and we ended up in bed together, and I am not bragging, but I was really worried she was going to get hurt in the 'action' (Should have put a helmet on her..lol.)
Anyways,
Best,
Jay
Posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 20:40:12
In reply to Re: Buspar in high doses » ed_uk, posted by jay on April 4, 2005, at 20:26:17
Hi Jay!
>Also...I mind as well say this...the second night on this, I was on my 3rd week of dating this gal, and we ended up in bed together, and I am not bragging, but I was really worried she was going to get hurt in the 'action' (Should have put a helmet on her..lol.)
LOL Jay!
I hope your online dating is going well at the moment, I don't often go on the social board so I'm not sure how things are going :-)
Ed.
Posted by jane d on April 8, 2005, at 0:05:11
In reply to Why does nicotine solve all my psychiatric problem, posted by linkadge on April 3, 2005, at 11:01:59
Linkadge,
How long have you been using the nicotine and what made you try it? Are you a former smoker? I'm asking this because I believe that quitting cigarettes made my problems worse.
Jane
Posted by Paulbwell on April 9, 2005, at 3:33:24
In reply to Re: Buspar in high doses » jay, posted by ed_uk on April 4, 2005, at 20:40:12
I'm a previous non smoker,
early 30's
ADHD, Depression'I have recently started chewing 2mg Nicotine gum.
It noticably, improves both.
"Nicotine increases Dopamine and appears to have anti-depressant effects"-Dr Michael Norden, (Psychiatrist) 'Beyond Prozac'-1995
This is the end of the thread.
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