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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BRC on November 17, 2004, at 22:30:29
I have this problem that my mind races out of control, but it is about old memmories. Some bad some good. They just come in and out all day long. Some are graphic, some just occur.
Could my medication be targeting parts of the brain that controls memmory. I mean I have asolutely not control over this. It is like my mind has a mind of its own. It is literally scaring me to death and making my anxiety worse.
Has anyone's medication ever caused this before. I am not on anti-psycotics. Never have been. Just on SSRI's, anti-anxiety, and mood stabilazers.
Any advice on this appreciated.
BRC
Posted by Sebastian on November 17, 2004, at 22:54:07
In reply to Can my medication be causing this?, posted by BRC on November 17, 2004, at 22:30:29
I'm no expert, but I think you need an antipsychotic.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on November 17, 2004, at 23:27:32
In reply to Can my medication be causing this?, posted by BRC on November 17, 2004, at 22:30:29
Is it possible that you suffer from PTSD? Some of the flashbacks that you are describing sound like what people who have suffered a traumatic experience go through. Is it possible that they have just gotten stirred up?
EE
Posted by alexandra_k on November 18, 2004, at 0:17:13
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this?, posted by Emily Elizabeth on November 17, 2004, at 23:27:32
Yeah, sounds like a trauma response to me too. I get something like that but I don't think meds make it worse (though maybe some help make it a bit easier to cope with). Are you having therapy to talk through this stuff with someone?
Posted by BRC on November 18, 2004, at 7:36:39
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this?, posted by alexandra_k on November 18, 2004, at 0:17:13
Hi, thanks for your post. Yea I see a therapist. But my pdoc seems to think its anxiety and OCD.
Posted by alexandra_K on November 18, 2004, at 16:58:27
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this? » alexandra_k, posted by BRC on November 18, 2004, at 7:36:39
Yeah, p-doc's can be like that :-)
Posted by tom_traubert on November 18, 2004, at 21:03:05
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this? » alexandra_k, posted by BRC on November 18, 2004, at 7:36:39
I agree with you 100% that it is anxiety and ocd. It's exactly the same with me. You're scared off falling off that edge that the thoughts seem to be trying to push you toward, and try to find some sense of control, such as finding the cause, looking for something from earlier in life. But also, the obsessional thoughts target whatever is most distressing and confusing to you, no matter what it is, I swear to god. If for some reason you believed that thinking about ice cream can cause insanity, visions of ice cream would invade your mind and you'd struggle to fight it. Of course I choose ice cream only to illustrate the ambiguity of the intrusive thoughts. The OCD will serve up whatever might cause anxiety.
Hope this helps,
tt
Posted by tom_traubert on November 18, 2004, at 21:24:17
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this?, posted by tom_traubert on November 18, 2004, at 21:03:05
Actually, I should clarify--the ice cream thing probablyy isn't the best example, because it contains no possibility of threat. OCD makes things so confusing because whatever becomes the intrusive thought has some, even if microscopic, way of being a threat. Like thinking about the past== why am I thinking about all this? There must be something buried in the past, some anger or repressed emotion that is causing my illness. I have to find out what it is OR ELSE. It's the OR ELSE that gives any ocd thought its power. For many with ocd compulsions, the object of their compulsion is secondary to the ocd. People know that their hands are clean, but they experience a visceral dread that something terrible is going to happen, so they keep washing. You know, on a deep level, that the intrusive thought is irrational, but the anxiety and fear that surrounds it is too powerful. The thought is always secondary to the fear at what the thought might mean about you and you mental health. 'oh no, i'm thinking about [any intrusive thought] again. I'm going to freak out. I'm going crazy' and the depressing thoughts come in about how you can't get over it and how you wish you were dead because of it.
Sorry, I kind of went off topic there. I don't mean to belittle your concern over your medication. It could possibly play a role, but knowing ocd, I don't see it as the main cause. I also know it's incredibly and horribly difficult for you, and I'm not trying to underestimate your evaluation of the situation.
tt
Posted by BRC on November 19, 2004, at 7:11:45
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this?, posted by tom_traubert on November 18, 2004, at 21:03:05
Hi,
You hit the nail on the head with this one. I have my good days and bad days. I guess I am always trying to remember what it was like before I came down with OCD and depression how better my life was. How happy I was. I guess this is where the constant memmories come into play.
But I do not understand why they are uncontrolable. I know that is a problem of OCD. But they just take over my mind and I cannot stop them. This makes me think I am crazy and something besides OCD and anxiety is the culprit.
Thanks for the respone,
BRC
Posted by tom_traubert on November 19, 2004, at 8:22:12
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this? » tom_traubert, posted by BRC on November 19, 2004, at 7:11:45
Yeah, it's not easy. The structure of anxiety and panic really comes into play here. It builds and builds and builds and the more you try to find reasons why it's there and why you're not going crazy, the frantic search increases the anxiety which increases the ocd thoughts. It's terrible. I was thinking of an analogy for it, and it's something like being told to hold onto something, like a metal weight or ball. You have the strength to hold it indefinitely, no problem. But you're told that if you drop the ball, it will set off a chain of events that will mean your death and the death of your loved ones. You start to focus intently on your grip. All your attention and streangth is put into grasping the object and your fear of dropping causes you much anxiety. As a result, you start to sweat, causing the ball to move within your fingers, to start sliding around. You also get dizzy, your balance causes your arm to sway. it gets harder and harder to hold on, which causes you more and more anxiety, which causes more and more sweat which makes it harder to hold on. Etc Etc. You have the strength and the grip, but the threat reuins everything. Like walking on a wide plank of wood that rests on the ground. No problem, walk right across. Put that same plank of wood 100 ft up in the air and to walk across is no easy task. Which is a real threat, because "I could fall!!" Now, that fear is real. However, the OCD makes you have the same reaction to your thoughts : "I could fall" = "I'm going crazy, I'm a murderer, I'm a pervert, I'm a loser, I'm a criminal, I'm a psychopath" but the plank is on the ground the whole time. But you still obsess obsess obsess how to defend yourself from the thoughts and accusations that you know at heart are incorrect and irrational but the possibility of their truth is horrifying, so you find ways to combat the fear, logic, looking at the past for some signs of your madness, finding good things about your self. But this search and this battle and these arguments are as much a part of the ocd as the intrusive thoughts. In fact, the searching and the defending and the responding to the thoughts actually strengthens the intrusive thoughts and makes it more likely that they will return.
The one saving grace is that this is something that has been documented and treated. If you haven't already, pick up "The Imp of the Mind" by Dr. Lee Baer and "Don't Panic" by Dr. Reid Wilson. If I had Dr. Baer's book when I was 18 I swear it would have been the single most helpful thing in the world. More than medication, more than the support of family. Just to know what it is and that it affects others and that it is not a sign of your imminent destruction is a huge relief. It's a great book and it explains precisely what youre experiencing, much better than my attmepts. Get it.
The "I don't understand why they're uncontrollable" and the subsequent frantic. search to understand why is your one way ticket to remain a slave to the thoughts. The book will tell you why, then it's your job to be ok with it, which of course is the real challenge. It seems counterintuitive, but it's true and it works.
Good Luck,
tt
Posted by jasmineneroli on November 19, 2004, at 16:54:21
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this?, posted by tom_traubert on November 19, 2004, at 8:22:12
BRC: Sorry that the thoughts are still in control for you....it really, absolutely stinks something rotten!
I agree with TT 100%. It's so much more likely to be your anxiety, rather than the drugs. As you know, I suffer GAD too, and at my most stressed get really OCD as well.
I hate it, because I feel I MUST solve the problem/issue/whatever. HAVE to take action. I've done some pretty "psychotic" seeming behaviours as a result, but it wasn't psychosis. It's called "perserveration". You just get "stuck" on an idea, belief or plan. Normal brains also act like this, but after thinking it through, the loop stops and something else takes over. Not with GAD/OCD, the loop keeps on going. Your brain is so overloaded with stress chemicals all the time that normal stress responses/thinking don't apply anymore. You're pre-frontal cortex shuts down (to varying degrees) and your "reptilian" brain is the default brain running the show. So you can't use logic, you can't think laterally, you can't solve problems, your short term memory is impaired, and only long term memory works (hence your ruminations on the past). You can only react, for safety.
I used to feel like "I had to get away" all the time, when I was in a phase like you are. Just get in my car and drive endlessly. Or go to sleep and never wake up. Overwhelmed. Intense feelings to do this, which are not exactly true suicidal ideations, but near to it. But then, I was Ms Conscientious to the max, as well. HAD to do the right thing, had to be ME doing it. So couldn't actually go away and leave my responsibilities. And so it went on.
I'm afraid to say these episodes seemed to have to "burn-out", where I just sort of broke-down out of sheer brain/emotional exhaustion. :(. (I know that's neither encouraging, nor helpful). But for me, I kinda went spinning on the carousel faster and faster, until I fell off. Then, I was able to respond better to my meds (Klonopin in particular), rest, and a complete removal of responsibilities for a week or two.
I didn't need hospitalization or anything. Just crashed, so that everyone around me knew I couldn't do anything for a while. Kinda like going into a coma, to preserve my sanity really. That's MY brain's safety valve. I have no idea why this pattern happens, or why that "crash" always works. It's as though the only way I can let go of the thoughts/pressure, is to bail. It's how I relinquish the anxiety hold. I don't seem to be able to "manually, let go".Then my meds all of a sudden work better, I return to "normal" GAD functioning, and as long as I don't overload myself with projects, things that only "I" can do, solve the whole world's problems and not worry about people excessively, I function pretty well. I'm feeling quite good right now by taking 2000mg Tryptophan and .5mg to .75mg Klonopin daily, and have "forced" myself to lower my expectations of what I can accomplish and be less of a control freak!
Sorry, I don't think I've helped at all here. Just know that I empathize, try reading the book TT suggests. I'm going to. A key is to probably find medications that work in your "tolerable" phase of GAD/OCD, so that you never get to where you're at now.
GOOD LUCK & take care!
Jas
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 19, 2004, at 20:40:59
In reply to Re: Can my medication be causing this?, posted by tom_traubert on November 19, 2004, at 8:22:12
> If you haven't already, pick up "The Imp of the Mind" by Dr. Lee Baer and "Don't Panic" by Dr. Reid Wilson...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by poop'd-out on November 20, 2004, at 0:10:04
In reply to Can my medication be causing this?, posted by BRC on November 17, 2004, at 22:30:29
> I have this problem that my mind races out of control, but it is about old memmories. Some bad some good. They just come in and out all day long. Some are graphic, some just occur.
>
> Could my medication be targeting parts of the brain that controls memmory. I mean I have asolutely not control over this. It is like my mind has a mind of its own. It is literally scaring me to death and making my anxiety worse.
>
> Has anyone's medication ever caused this before. I am not on anti-psycotics. Never have been. Just on SSRI's, anti-anxiety, and mood stabilazers.
>
> Any advice on this appreciated.
>
> BRC
>The first thing you should ask yourself is whether or not your mind was doing this prior to taking medication. Or if this started after you started a particular medication.
I am NOT saying that this IS being caused by your medication. I am just saying use the cause and effect method. How were you feeling b4 and how you are feeling after. Good luck to you.
Beth
Posted by tom_traubert on November 21, 2004, at 18:13:42
In reply to Re: double double quotes » tom_traubert, posted by Dr. Bob on November 19, 2004, at 20:40:59
Thanks, Dr. Bob. Will do.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2004, at 21:15:49
In reply to Re: double double quotes, posted by tom_traubert on November 21, 2004, at 18:13:42
This is the end of the thread.
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