![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bluebird on July 6, 2004, at 11:24:00
Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
Thanks, bluebird
Posted by nephron on July 6, 2004, at 22:49:14
In reply to Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by bluebird on July 6, 2004, at 11:24:00
Have you taken any other anti-depressants than Paxil? I'd generally recommend you try a couple of SSRIs, Effexor, tricyclics, Remeron etc. before trying the MAOIs.
Posted by chemist on July 8, 2004, at 16:40:54
In reply to Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by bluebird on July 6, 2004, at 11:24:00
> Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks, bluebirdhello there, chemist here....i took 10 mg parnate tid for a spell a few years ago, coincidentally after very negative experiences with paxil. i found parnate to be just fine - i believe i was pushing the 2 year mark - and tapered off of it in a timely and painless manner when things leveled out. there is quite a lot of support from folks more in the know in re: MAOIs on this board, and the concensus seems to lead towards nardil. can't say i've taken the latter, but there seem to be a lot of folks quite pleased with it, and i certainly had a good ride with parnate. you might direct a post to sad panda, ace (especially ace, he's the nardil champ), and larry hoover (larry just plain knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff) and you might get a more equivocal answer than mine. all the best, chemist
Posted by KaraS on July 9, 2004, at 18:42:44
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP » bluebird, posted by chemist on July 8, 2004, at 16:40:54
> > Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> > Thanks, bluebird
>
> hello there, chemist here....i took 10 mg parnate tid for a spell a few years ago, coincidentally after very negative experiences with paxil. i found parnate to be just fine - i believe i was pushing the 2 year mark - and tapered off of it in a timely and painless manner when things leveled out. there is quite a lot of support from folks more in the know in re: MAOIs on this board, and the concensus seems to lead towards nardil. can't say i've taken the latter, but there seem to be a lot of folks quite pleased with it, and i certainly had a good ride with parnate. you might direct a post to sad panda, ace (especially ace, he's the nardil champ), and larry hoover (larry just plain knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff) and you might get a more equivocal answer than mine. all the best, chemist
Chemist,
Do you mind my asking what other things have worked for you? If something like Parnate was successful for a while, then I'm thinking that you have similar issues as me (despite our different genders - LOL) in terms of needing energy and motivation. Have you ever been able to go back on something (a long time later) that has previously worked for you? If something poops-out once then is it ever an option again for you or for people in general? It has been hard enough finding something that will work for me - I'd like to think that if I did find something and it stopped working, that it might be an option again in the future.P.S. Do you know of anyone who has found a miracle "cure" and stayed on it for the rest of his or her life and then lived happily ever after? (If the answer to this last question is "no", then please lie to me.... kdding of course.)
KaraS
Posted by Ktemene on July 9, 2004, at 23:10:13
In reply to Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by bluebird on July 6, 2004, at 11:24:00
> Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks, bluebirdBoth are very effective medications as a great number of posters on PB have attested. My sense from reading a lot of posts is that Parnate is more activating and less likely to cause weight gain and sexual dysfunction and some other unpleasant SE's. But Parnate does tend to cause greater sensitivity to tyramine, so it requires more vigilance in keeping to the diet restrictions. Parnate is more apt to be helpful for people who also suffer from ADD. Nardil is more forgiving in respect of the diet restrictions (although great care is still required) but more likely to cause SE's. Nardil is also more apt to be helpful for people who have problems with social phobia and other anxiety-related conditions and it is less likely to cause insomnia. There is another MAOI, Selegiline/Deprenyl, that has been discussed a lot because it may soon be released in a transdermal patch form that will more or less eliminate the need for diet restrictions. Selegiline seems to resemble Parnate in being quite activating. When taken orally in doses no greater than 10mg per day Selegiline is preferential for MAO-B, so the diet restrictions can be ignored. But if the oral dose of Selegiline is over 10mg per day then the diet restrictions apply.
You’ve probably already come across the article that Current Psychiatry did on MAOI’s a couple of years ago but just in case I’ll include the URL: http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/2002_06/06_02_maoi.asp
There are a huge number of helpful thoughtful posts on the MAOI’s that you can find by searching, but I have put a few of the ones I found particularly useful below (in no special order).
Nardil:
Gardenergirl http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040429/msgs/342284.html
King Vulcan http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040627/msgs/361348.html
Parnate:
Harryp http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040505/msgs/344714.html
Cubbybear http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030106/msgs/135041.html
Cybercafe http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040429/msgs/341663.htmlSelegiline:
Elleff http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040614/msgs/357474.html
Posted by chemist on July 10, 2004, at 1:11:15
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by KaraS on July 9, 2004, at 18:42:44
> > > Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> > > Thanks, bluebird
> >
> > hello there, chemist here....i took 10 mg parnate tid for a spell a few years ago, coincidentally after very negative experiences with paxil. i found parnate to be just fine - i believe i was pushing the 2 year mark - and tapered off of it in a timely and painless manner when things leveled out. there is quite a lot of support from folks more in the know in re: MAOIs on this board, and the concensus seems to lead towards nardil. can't say i've taken the latter, but there seem to be a lot of folks quite pleased with it, and i certainly had a good ride with parnate. you might direct a post to sad panda, ace (especially ace, he's the nardil champ), and larry hoover (larry just plain knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff) and you might get a more equivocal answer than mine. all the best, chemist
>
>
> Chemist,
> Do you mind my asking what other things have worked for you? If something like Parnate was successful for a while, then I'm thinking that you have similar issues as me (despite our different genders - LOL) in terms of needing energy and motivation. Have you ever been able to go back on something (a long time later) that has previously worked for you? If something poops-out once then is it ever an option again for you or for people in general? It has been hard enough finding something that will work for me - I'd like to think that if I did find something and it stopped working, that it might be an option again in the future.
>
> P.S. Do you know of anyone who has found a miracle "cure" and stayed on it for the rest of his or her life and then lived happily ever after? (If the answer to this last question is "no", then please lie to me.... kdding of course.)
>
> KaraShello there, chemist here....i apologize for the tardiness in responding to your post. other things that have worked for me (defined as very positive experiences) are - and i mean all the way - luvox, dexedrine, xanax, ambien, and trileptal. in the second tier, i would rate valium, dalmane, restoril, halcion, paxil (briefly), and topomax as adjunct therapy. at the bottom of the barrel are buspar, neurontin, gabatril, remeron, depakote, geodon, and celexa (this was before lexapro, but still....). i never went back to anything except xanax and luvox. and kept the dexedrine. xanax is clean, quickly eliminated, and addresses anxiety/panic. dexdrine offsets the xanax a bit but addresses focusing (as with the rest of the gang, there is always that ``maybe you have adhd'' dx but the jury is out). and luvox - which is only available as generic until sovay's NDA gets the green light from the FDA hopefully this year - is a very broad spectrum SSRI from the old-school, approved for OCD but not for depression. as for success stories, i like to think of a few chums of mine who have followed the advice i give myself: if a med is not working, be assertive, take matters into your own hands, taper slowly, and switch pdocs if required. my own ``happily ever after'' story is that i am quite comfortable on my meds and with my therapist, so take that for what it's worth. i have accomplished my personal goals in the timeframe i wanted to; there have been impediments, both internal and external; yet here i am. so that is that. all the best, and please do let me know if any of this is a help, i might``refer'' you to another poster depending on your condition as is my habit....chemist
Posted by KaraS on July 10, 2004, at 2:48:40
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP » KaraS, posted by chemist on July 10, 2004, at 1:11:15
> > > > Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> > > > Thanks, bluebird
> > >
> > > hello there, chemist here....i took 10 mg parnate tid for a spell a few years ago, coincidentally after very negative experiences with paxil. i found parnate to be just fine - i believe i was pushing the 2 year mark - and tapered off of it in a timely and painless manner when things leveled out. there is quite a lot of support from folks more in the know in re: MAOIs on this board, and the concensus seems to lead towards nardil. can't say i've taken the latter, but there seem to be a lot of folks quite pleased with it, and i certainly had a good ride with parnate. you might direct a post to sad panda, ace (especially ace, he's the nardil champ), and larry hoover (larry just plain knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff) and you might get a more equivocal answer than mine. all the best, chemist
> >
> >
> > Chemist,
> > Do you mind my asking what other things have worked for you? If something like Parnate was successful for a while, then I'm thinking that you have similar issues as me (despite our different genders - LOL) in terms of needing energy and motivation. Have you ever been able to go back on something (a long time later) that has previously worked for you? If something poops-out once then is it ever an option again for you or for people in general? It has been hard enough finding something that will work for me - I'd like to think that if I did find something and it stopped working, that it might be an option again in the future.
> >
> > P.S. Do you know of anyone who has found a miracle "cure" and stayed on it for the rest of his or her life and then lived happily ever after? (If the answer to this last question is "no", then please lie to me.... kdding of course.)
> >
> > KaraS
>
> hello there, chemist here....i apologize for the tardiness in responding to your post. other things that have worked for me (defined as very positive experiences) are - and i mean all the way - luvox, dexedrine, xanax, ambien, and trileptal. in the second tier, i would rate valium, dalmane, restoril, halcion, paxil (briefly), and topomax as adjunct therapy. at the bottom of the barrel are buspar, neurontin, gabatril, remeron, depakote, geodon, and celexa (this was before lexapro, but still....). i never went back to anything except xanax and luvox. and kept the dexedrine. xanax is clean, quickly eliminated, and addresses anxiety/panic. dexdrine offsets the xanax a bit but addresses focusing (as with the rest of the gang, there is always that ``maybe you have adhd'' dx but the jury is out). and luvox - which is only available as generic until sovay's NDA gets the green light from the FDA hopefully this year - is a very broad spectrum SSRI from the old-school, approved for OCD but not for depression. as for success stories, i like to think of a few chums of mine who have followed the advice i give myself: if a med is not working, be assertive, take matters into your own hands, taper slowly, and switch pdocs if required. my own ``happily ever after'' story is that i am quite comfortable on my meds and with my therapist, so take that for what it's worth. i have accomplished my personal goals in the timeframe i wanted to; there have been impediments, both internal and external; yet here i am. so that is that. all the best, and please do let me know if any of this is a help, i might``refer'' you to another poster depending on your condition as is my habit....chemist
Thank you, Chemist. It did help me in the sense that I realized we are not going to respond to medications in the same way. So much for my earlier theory. Luvox made me nauseous and it didn't go away. I haven't had much success with the SSRIs in general. It seems that you're most concerned with anxiety control. That isn't my problem now though it has been at times in the past. (I'm surprised that you were able to tolerate the Parnate.) I'm glad that you are doing so well now and I wish you continued success and happiness.
KaraS
Posted by chemist on July 10, 2004, at 11:09:54
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by KaraS on July 10, 2004, at 2:48:40
> > > > > Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> > > > > Thanks, bluebird
> > > >
> > > > hello there, chemist here....i took 10 mg parnate tid for a spell a few years ago, coincidentally after very negative experiences with paxil. i found parnate to be just fine - i believe i was pushing the 2 year mark - and tapered off of it in a timely and painless manner when things leveled out. there is quite a lot of support from folks more in the know in re: MAOIs on this board, and the concensus seems to lead towards nardil. can't say i've taken the latter, but there seem to be a lot of folks quite pleased with it, and i certainly had a good ride with parnate. you might direct a post to sad panda, ace (especially ace, he's the nardil champ), and larry hoover (larry just plain knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff) and you might get a more equivocal answer than mine. all the best, chemist
> > >
> > >
> > > Chemist,
> > > Do you mind my asking what other things have worked for you? If something like Parnate was successful for a while, then I'm thinking that you have similar issues as me (despite our different genders - LOL) in terms of needing energy and motivation. Have you ever been able to go back on something (a long time later) that has previously worked for you? If something poops-out once then is it ever an option again for you or for people in general? It has been hard enough finding something that will work for me - I'd like to think that if I did find something and it stopped working, that it might be an option again in the future.
> > >
> > > P.S. Do you know of anyone who has found a miracle "cure" and stayed on it for the rest of his or her life and then lived happily ever after? (If the answer to this last question is "no", then please lie to me.... kdding of course.)
> > >
> > > KaraS
> >
> > hello there, chemist here....i apologize for the tardiness in responding to your post. other things that have worked for me (defined as very positive experiences) are - and i mean all the way - luvox, dexedrine, xanax, ambien, and trileptal. in the second tier, i would rate valium, dalmane, restoril, halcion, paxil (briefly), and topomax as adjunct therapy. at the bottom of the barrel are buspar, neurontin, gabatril, remeron, depakote, geodon, and celexa (this was before lexapro, but still....). i never went back to anything except xanax and luvox. and kept the dexedrine. xanax is clean, quickly eliminated, and addresses anxiety/panic. dexdrine offsets the xanax a bit but addresses focusing (as with the rest of the gang, there is always that ``maybe you have adhd'' dx but the jury is out). and luvox - which is only available as generic until sovay's NDA gets the green light from the FDA hopefully this year - is a very broad spectrum SSRI from the old-school, approved for OCD but not for depression. as for success stories, i like to think of a few chums of mine who have followed the advice i give myself: if a med is not working, be assertive, take matters into your own hands, taper slowly, and switch pdocs if required. my own ``happily ever after'' story is that i am quite comfortable on my meds and with my therapist, so take that for what it's worth. i have accomplished my personal goals in the timeframe i wanted to; there have been impediments, both internal and external; yet here i am. so that is that. all the best, and please do let me know if any of this is a help, i might``refer'' you to another poster depending on your condition as is my habit....chemist
>
>
> Thank you, Chemist. It did help me in the sense that I realized we are not going to respond to medications in the same way. So much for my earlier theory. Luvox made me nauseous and it didn't go away. I haven't had much success with the SSRIs in general. It seems that you're most concerned with anxiety control. That isn't my problem now though it has been at times in the past. (I'm surprised that you were able to tolerate the Parnate.) I'm glad that you are doing so well now and I wish you continued success and happiness.
> KaraShello there again....yes, we all have our different issues and biochemistries. i wanted to add that, in addition to your observation as such, that the process is rather long and convoluted. i've been on some meds for as short as 1 week (depakote, geodon) or as long as 10 years (xanax). and the recipe always changes, except xanax remains invarient. as for parnate, it was exceptional for me, and do keep in mind that i always have been on xanax (well, there was a brief, ca. 1.5 year switch to valium, but close enough), so the sometimes stimulating effects of parnate were blunted. as for luvox, the nausea is not uncommon, and there is a very wide dosing range, and slow titration is recommended. i am not a fan of SSRIs - i do quite prefer MAOIs - but luvox is doing the trick right now. in any event, good luck on your quest for the ``right'' med(s)....all the best, chemist
Posted by SLS on July 10, 2004, at 11:40:27
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by KaraS on July 9, 2004, at 18:42:44
> Have you ever been able to go back on something (a long time later) that has previously worked for you? If something poops-out once then is it ever an option again for you or for people in general?
My impression is that this is a scenario more common with the MAOIs than with other classes of antidepressants.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 10, 2004, at 11:44:18
In reply to Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by bluebird on July 6, 2004, at 11:24:00
> Just looking for some input from those of you that have taken Parnate and Nardil. What is the difference and which is the best way to go? I have read many articles and info about them and opinions vary. Some say Nardil is the very best and others say start with Parnate it has less side effects. I will be taking it for severe SAD, depression, and avoidant personality disorder. Presently taking Paxil and in the process of going off of it. Not easy to do. Anyones input would be greatly appreciated
> Thanks, bluebird
How do you know that you have SAD and not major depression or bipolar disorder?Have you tried light-boxes?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 10, 2004, at 14:01:59
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by SLS on July 10, 2004, at 11:44:18
> How do you know that you have SAD and not major depression or bipolar disorder?
>
> Have you tried light-boxes?
Sorry. I guess you meant social anxiety disorder and not seasonal affective disorder.
- Scott
Posted by KaraS on July 10, 2004, at 17:00:10
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP, posted by SLS on July 10, 2004, at 11:40:27
> > Have you ever been able to go back on something (a long time later) that has previously worked for you? If something poops-out once then is it ever an option again for you or for people in general?
>
> My impression is that this is a scenario more common with the MAOIs than with other classes of antidepressants.
>
>
> - ScottAnother good reason for trying them!
Thanks,
Kara
Posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 14:38:23
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there a difference? HELP » KaraS, posted by chemist on July 10, 2004, at 11:09:54
Dear Chemist, I have been reading your post. You seem to be very in tune to all of these meds. First, Paxil helped it was the first relief I felt from the SEVERE Social Phobia, also taking Clonazepam, & Hydroxyzine. Well, the problem is that the Paxil causes constant shaking and lack of motivation which is awful,severe sexual problems along with other things. Instead of being afraid of things and situations I have no desire to participate in life in general. I am a zombie. I have tried adjusting doses and so forth. Sleep is still an issue. Can stay up all night but want to sleep all day. Tried taking meds at different times still the same effect. The SAD and anxiety problems are still present. So, I want to switch to an MAOI. I am thinking Parnate because it doesn't seem to take the motivation away as much. I cannot take Xanax it makes me aggitated and very irritable, I feel somewhat angry on it. So along with the Parnate (Marplan, Nardil) what are your suggestions. I am thinking Parnate because of less SE's. I will probably need something for sleep and maybe a benzo, don't you think? Valium pretty much has no effect on me. Benadryl does make me sleep but wake up in a fog and hangover feeling. Also what is it that you take if you have a hypertensive crisis? Thank you for all of your previous info. I am looking for that cocktail that will help me to function normally. My Doc isn't on board with MAOI's though. May have to find a new doc. I have had severe SAD and AvPD all my life. I think the MAOI's maybe the answer. Thanks, bluebird
Posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 14:58:40
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there difference?Chemist, posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 14:38:23
> Dear Chemist, I have been reading your post. You seem to be very in tune to all of these meds. First, Paxil helped it was the first relief I felt from the SEVERE Social Phobia, also taking Clonazepam, & Hydroxyzine. Well, the problem is that the Paxil causes constant shaking and lack of motivation which is awful,severe sexual problems along with other things. Instead of being afraid of things and situations I have no desire to participate in life in general. I am a zombie. I have tried adjusting doses and so forth. Sleep is still an issue. Can stay up all night but want to sleep all day. Tried taking meds at different times still the same effect. The SAD and anxiety problems are still present. So, I want to switch to an MAOI. I am thinking Parnate because it doesn't seem to take the motivation away as much. I cannot take Xanax it makes me aggitated and very irritable, I feel somewhat angry on it. So along with the Parnate (Marplan, Nardil) what are your suggestions. I am thinking Parnate because of less SE's. I will probably need something for sleep and maybe a benzo, don't you think? Valium pretty much has no effect on me. Benadryl does make me sleep but wake up in a fog and hangover feeling. Also what is it that you take if you have a hypertensive crisis? Thank you for all of your previous info. I am looking for that cocktail that will help me to function normally. My Doc isn't on board with MAOI's though. May have to find a new doc. I have had severe SAD and AvPD all my life. I think the MAOI's maybe the answer. Thanks, bluebird
hello there, chemist here...i am no fan of paxil, having had a very bad experience with it, and switched to parnate afterwards. as i have noted, nardil and marplan are getting ``good press'' on these boards (marplan is a type B reversible MAOI, and there are few - if any - dietary restrictions), but i personally can comment only on parnate. because you are already taking a benzo - klonopin - stick with it. your atarax ought to be just fine for sleep, but if it isn't, consider ambien. finally, i always carried 2 50 mg tablets of thorazine with me while i was taking parnate, just in case i was slipped something in food/beverage. i will note that, for the record, nothing ever caused me to use the thorazine, and i followed a rather strict diet, but it has become clear to me via other posts that there really are only a few items that, if ingested, are dangerous, while many of the others - in moderation - are fine. so, that's my suggestion: parnate + klonopin + atarax (or subst. ambien) and be well....all the best, chemist
Posted by dreyfus on July 11, 2004, at 16:03:05
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there difference?Chemist » bluebird, posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 14:58:40
I have been on Parnate for most of the past 15 years. I have found that Trazodone works very well with the sleep problems.
Posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 17:12:25
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there difference?Chemist » bluebird, posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 14:58:40
Hello Chemist, Are you still taking Parnate? Also what does reversible and irreversible mean when taking MAOI's? You said Marplan is a type B? I went to the site where it tells all of the meds/generics and what they are for and what chemicals they effect and so forth. Nardil - Hydrazine-MAOI/GABA transaminase inhibition, Parnate - cyclopropylamine-MAOI, Marplan - hydrazine-MAOI. So, what's the difference in them? I realize this is probably a loaded question. Still trying to learn to understand the different effects of these MAOI's. Also the atarax and klonopin don't always work at night for sleep. Benydryl seems effective. If at this point I drink black coffee with my Paxil & other meds I am out like a light. I know it sounds strange but it is a fact. Thanks for your help, bluebird
Posted by KaraS on July 11, 2004, at 18:18:10
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there difference?Chemist, posted by dreyfus on July 11, 2004, at 16:03:05
That's amazing - 15 years on the same medicine. Is it just as potent for your now as it was in the past? Do you still feel a need for more antidepressant assistance or has this one medication been your magic bullet? Doesn't the trazadone make you feel nauseous and grogged out all day?
Posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 18:38:54
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there difference?Chemist, posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 17:12:25
> Hello Chemist, Are you still taking Parnate? Also what does reversible and irreversible mean when taking MAOI's? You said Marplan is a type B? I went to the site where it tells all of the meds/generics and what they are for and what chemicals they effect and so forth. Nardil - Hydrazine-MAOI/GABA transaminase inhibition, Parnate - cyclopropylamine-MAOI, Marplan - hydrazine-MAOI. So, what's the difference in them? I realize this is probably a loaded question. Still trying to learn to understand the different effects of these MAOI's. Also the atarax and klonopin don't always work at night for sleep. Benydryl seems effective. If at this point I drink black coffee with my Paxil & other meds I am out like a light. I know it sounds strange but it is a fact. Thanks for your help, bluebird
hello there, chemist here....that's a pretty lousy website if they refer to nardil and marplan both as the same chemical, and all the chemical names are wrong, don't you think? don't go back there for info, as it is likely to be incorrect. for the record: Marplan = isocarboxazid, Parnate = tranylcypromine, and Nardil = phenelzine. MAO type A inhibitors bind to the enzyme monoamineoxidase (MAO) inhibit the deamination of 5-HT, dopamine, and noradrenaline. MAO type B inhibitors bind to MAO and inhibit only the deamination of dopamine. when something binds irreversibly, it means that is pretty well stuck and can't get knocked out of the enzyme: the key is jammed in the lock, so to speak, as long as you are taking the drug. reversible inhibitors are suceptible to having their actions reversed, even while you are taking the drug. so, the MAOI-A irreversible type can be considered the most extreme: parnate is in this category. hypotension results with type A MAOIs because you stop your body's ability to remove excess noradrenaline and, if you take something that is stimulating, the effect is additive. the type B MAOIs are friendlier (they are sometimes also called selective MAOIs), and because they do not interfere with the reuptake and/or elimination of noradrenaline, are safer than the type A MAOIs from that standpoint. A and B MAOIs can be reversible or irreversible. selegiline is an irreversible type B MAOI, while lazabemide is a reversible type B MAOI. please do let me know if this clears things up, i will be happy to dig up more. as for benadryl for sleep, why not? you avoid a benzo (which can be habit-forming) and a potent anti-histamine. in my opinion, the fewer drugs, the better, and you can buy generic benadryl for much less than the brand name at any supermarket, so save yourself some money and taking 2 prescription meds! all the best, please do let us know how things progress....all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 18:54:28
In reply to Re: Parnate or Nardil is there difference?Chemist, posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 17:12:25
bluebird, you asked if i was still taking parnate and i did not reply. i apologize. the answer is no, and is only because things got better and i went off of it. i currently take luvox (parnate and luvox are the only ADs i have had success with, fyi) but could just as easily go back to parnate. my mental healthcare practitioner is predisposed to luvox, and i had a very pleasant run with it for about 3 years in the late 1990s, so it's no big thing whether i am on one or the other, as i have had great experiences with both. all the best, chemist
Posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 22:39:32
In reply to one more thing » bluebird, posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 18:54:28
hello chemist, thank you so much for the info. So what is the difference between Parnate and Luvox? Just curious. You have been most helpful. I appreciate your response to my questions and your continued interest in this battle that we struggle with. It is people like you that make the proces more understandable and tolerable. Blessings to you, bluebird
PS I am sure I will probably have more questions for you. Thanks
Posted by chemist on July 12, 2004, at 4:38:16
In reply to Re: one more thing -chemist, posted by bluebird on July 11, 2004, at 22:39:32
> hello chemist, thank you so much for the info. So what is the difference between Parnate and Luvox? Just curious. You have been most helpful. I appreciate your response to my questions and your continued interest in this battle that we struggle with. It is people like you that make the proces more understandable and tolerable. Blessings to you, bluebird
> PS I am sure I will probably have more questions for you. Thankshello bluebird....parnate is an irreversible MAO type A inhibitor, and luvox is a garden-variety SSRI that inhibits serotonin reuptake, while parnate prevents MAO from ``degrading'' dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin. so there is a bit of overlap (in terms of serotonergic activity, and luvox has some very slight binding affinity for NE and DA, but it is mM or worse), but they work in completely different ways. i am posting a correction in another message, but want to mention that i incorrectly identified Marplan as a type B MAOI, when in fact i recall now that it is a type A (like parnate) MAOI. all the best, chemist
Posted by chemist on July 12, 2004, at 4:46:30
In reply to one more thing » bluebird, posted by chemist on July 11, 2004, at 18:54:28
hello there, chemist here....i incorrectly identified Marplan in the abve post as type B MAOI; it is a type A MAOI. i apologize for the error.....all the best, chemist
Posted by bluebird on July 12, 2004, at 10:18:10
In reply to correction » chemist, posted by chemist on July 12, 2004, at 4:46:30
Hello Chemist, So does the Luvox work as well for the Social Phobia as the Parnate did? Why did you quit the Parnate? Is Luvox good for Social Phobia and Avoidant PD? Is it as powerful of an SSRI as Paxil and what is the difference in Paxil & Luvox. I know you said you had a bad experience with Paxil. Thanks Again, bluebird
Posted by chemist on July 12, 2004, at 15:17:06
In reply to Re: correction---chemist, posted by bluebird on July 12, 2004, at 10:18:10
> Hello Chemist, So does the Luvox work as well for the Social Phobia as the Parnate did? Why did you quit the Parnate? Is Luvox good for Social Phobia and Avoidant PD? Is it as powerful of an SSRI as Paxil and what is the difference in Paxil & Luvox. I know you said you had a bad experience with Paxil. Thanks Again, bluebird
hi bluebird. for me, luvox works just as well as the parnate in re: social phobia, but my problems were more of the GAD/panic attack variety, not social phobia and avoidant PD. as for is it as ``powerful'' as paxil, that depends on the person. i was very activated by paxil, did some stupid things - well, more than my usual bouts of stupidity - and would say i was a bit agitated and hypomanic on paxil. as far as the differences, i can comment that paxil is more bioavailable than luvox, and unlike luvox, the pharacokinetics are non-linear with dose, leading to problems at higher doses. they both primarily hit serotonin only, with a little touch of dopamine/norepinephrine. thus, luvox has a wide dosing range, and a easier taper than paxil. as to why paxil is on the hit-list of the u.k. and u.s., i can only say that, based on my experience, i endorse the decision. i switched from paxil to parnate and had a wonderful run of it for about 2 years, until i simply didn't need an AD. when the time came again - about 1.5 years later - my pdoc in new location (who is actually the first pdoc i ever saw, some 10 years ago or so: i moved back to where i lived when i first sought treatment, just to clarify) put me back on luvox, with which i had had success the first time around. he is a luvox guy, and frankly, luvox or parnate have worked equally well for me, so i am quite happy with his disposition. please let me know if this is of any help, all the best, chemist
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