![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 9 to 33 of 74. Go back in thread:
Posted by shar30906 on November 21, 2002, at 13:32:03
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by fluffy on November 20, 2002, at 11:26:49
I can really unerstand where you all are at. I don't think I have ever fit the "normal" defination and don't know that i will with treatment. the hardest thing for me at the moment is that i dont know what to expect with treatment. I've been dealing with Depression, anxiety, moodswings and the like for over 10 years and I have a very difficult time seeing things change because of a few new medications, i pray that they will, even though they have not in the past, i have to hold out hope that I have been diagnosed correctly this time and that things will begin to get better for me soon. Beacuse up to this point I have not been able to keep a job, maintain a realtionship, or take care of myself, i am ready to have a life of my own and free my parents from the financial and emotional burden that my mental illness has placed on them.
take care, best of luck to you all
shar30906
Posted by Krysti on November 22, 2002, at 21:24:32
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by fluffy on November 20, 2002, at 13:04:16
Hey Katy,
How are things going? Have the meds helped with your anxiety? Just curious why your doctor upped the Zoloft, were you having depression? For me, SSRI's seem to make my anxiety worse. Although, if I become depressed again, I would try another one again (a different one than the Lexapro). As we all know, every medication is different and affects people differently! It's so hard not to try to tell someone else what to do with meds based on your own experiences : )
I don't remember if I told you, but my pdoc switched me to Trileptal about a week and a half ago. So far, I've been feeling great. No anxiety and in a good mood. I really hope this lasts.
I know what you mean about friends - some are more understanding than others. Right after I was diagnosed and still in a manic state, I told this guy about it (we used to date a long time ago) and he was saying how he didn't think medication was a good idea! People tend to base their opinions on their own experiences. If you haven't gone through anything where you needed medication, why would you think other people do? I went a long time thinking the same thing. Although, I never would have been rude enough to say that to someone (I just thought I was better than them for not needing it, lol). Think on the bright side, maybe that guy will go through something later on his life and then he'll realize how stupid he was. Just kidding - I don't wish this on anyone. It's just like anything else though, if we could all be overweight for a day or have bad acne for a day or whatever, we would be much more understanding of other people.
I hope you're doing well : ) Keep in touch.
Krysti
Posted by fluffy on November 23, 2002, at 13:37:19
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Krysti on November 22, 2002, at 21:24:32
Hi Krysti--
Hmmm. How am I doing?? I'm not really sure. That's the problem, I guess. I called my doctor all freaked out a couple of days ago because my thoughts were getting all layered and panicky...but I'm not sure if it's just a fear of the upped zoloft dose or of my new label (BPII) or if I was actually having a reaction. I'm really scared of AD's now.
Last night, I was fighting with myself again thinking that I just have panic disorder and that I should just take the damn zoloft and stop worrying about it. I did-- and spent last night alone in my room with my eyes closed and fell asleep on the couch. Then this morning I woke up and had some coffee and a few cigs, and my thoughts started ruminating again...with a really negative vibe. ..looking at an extension cord and thinking of hanging from it....that kind of stuff...(!!!!)
My friend called me in the middle of this...and I just told him how I didn't know who I was anymore. He said--I know who you are..and this isn't YOU!! I decided to pull myself together and get dressed and go to work. I feel better..
But I really have to wonder about myself!! Am I just freakin' my own sh*t out?? Which thoughts are mine? How do I stop them? Should I continue with the zoloft? My doc asked me if I was feeling better or worse on it. I said..worse. I took 2 neurontin yesterday with no zoloft and felt so slow and tired. So I decided to continue with the zoloft. But the thoughts this morning and last night scared me!! What is UP??
Am I just having an insecurity problem and can't face it?? Is BPII just a label so that I can explain away my lack of responsibility and deep seated fears?? I'm so confused!!
Krysti--you are the bomb, by the way...thanks for keeping in touch. I'm glad you are having luck with your meds.
lovins...
Posted by Krysti on November 23, 2002, at 15:08:19
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on November 23, 2002, at 13:37:19
Hi fluffy,
You have to believe me when I tell you, this is not something you are making up. It is also not something you can control yourself. I finally believed that about the anxiety when I read somewhere on the internet about it and it said that you can not just wish it away. I think most people with anxiety and bipolar are control freaks. Most people think they should be able to control it on their own. It is just not possible. It is a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated. The good news is when you find the meds that work, you will feel so much better. I promise when that happens you will be able to look back and see that this is not something you brought on yourself or made up or could control.
Just curious, why does your doctor have you on Zoloft? Did he have you just on a mood stabilizer first and then added Zoloft later for depression? What all meds have you been on and for how long? I just went back and read your posts and it does seem that you started feeling more anxious after you upped the dose of Zoloft. That is what happened to me when I went on the Lexapro. I know what you mean about thinking it's all in your head - I was wondering the same thing when I went on the Lexapro and was started to feel more and more anxious every day. Now that I am off of it though, I feel a hundred times better and know it was not just in my head.
I am still doing very well on the Trileptal - only time will tell if it's going to last - but let me tell you, when you feel "normal", you will know. You won't be second guessing yourself like you are doing now. That is one thing I am going to try to remember next time if I don't feel right. That if I'm thinking I don't feel right, then I'm not. Learn to trust yourself and how you feel. Know that this is just a chemical imbalance and you're on a mission to find the right meds to correct it. Whatever you do, don't listen to other people tell you there is nothing wrong, that you can fix it yourself, blah blah blah. Remember, other people don't live in your body and your head and without going through it themselves, cannot possibly understand it. Stick with people who are at least supportive of you and will help you through it. And remember, we are lucky because it is treatable.
The mood stabilizer is the first key to it. Were you more on the depressed or hypomanic side before you were diagnosed? Were you on meds for your anxiety before you were diagnosed? It is very important to figure out how a specific med is making you feel. The doctor can only go by what you are telling him/her. If possible, you should keep a journal every day, write down what meds you are taking at what dose and how you feel. Then at least you will feel more in control and can see for yourself how you are reacting. It won't seem so much like it is all in your head then. The medications will have an effect, positive or negative, on your hyperness/anxiety/depression. The goal obviously is to find ones that have a positive effect. You need to trust yourself and communicate with your doctor what affect they are having. Most medications will have side effects that go away after a couple of weeks, the ones I can live with are sleepiness and nausea. If a med is making me anxious again or depressed, forget it (that is my opinion anyway). That's when I either change the dose, the med or add something else. Also, depending on your symptoms, different mood stabilizers are better than others for the anxiety. Also, some treat manic-ness better and some treat depression better.
Hang in there, things will get better. I can tell from your posts, you are a fighter : )
Krysti
Posted by fluffy on November 23, 2002, at 16:37:24
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Krysti on November 23, 2002, at 15:08:19
Hey Krysti--
Here's the lowdown...
I was treated for a bout of major depression 2 years ago...came on suddenly with lots of anxiety. Went to therapy but nothing seemed to be triggering the depression. Was sent to a psychiatrist (who I am seeing now) who prescribed Paxil. I came out of the depression about a month or so later....I went on taking Paxil and after a year, decided that I was feeling better and that I would stop.I got a new job and was feeling on top of the world at this point. I got really goal oriented and tried to get into lots of fellowship programs....I started writing "manifestoes" on a message board...getting into arguments with people. Started feeling amourous, like I wanted a boyfriend..and that was a "goal" for me. Then I got the bug up my ass that I wanted to move out of my apartment and into my studio so that I could pay off my debt within a year. Sold half my stuff...Got lots of people to help me move and build out the new space in my studio. Started dating a guy...talkin' on the phone all night, e-mailing all day...I was making plans to throw a party in my empty apartment for all of my friends and people I had met on the message board...but didn't have the time. Partying my ass off...Didn't sleep much for 2 weeks.
Then--BOOM!! Started feeling totally agitated...lost my appetite...started having panic attacks daily. I accomplished the move (into a 13' x 13' space (!!!) and felt very accomplished. But then I started feeling VERY depressed. Crying all the time. Totally dis-interested in EVERYTHING. I decided to see a therapist again. Went in circles..round and round. My decisions which seemed so important and well rounded seemed to bite me in the rear suddenly. He suggested that I get on antidepressants again.
Went to my old Pdoc and told him that I was depressed again. He prescribed Lexapro. I felt less slow for the first two weeks. Then I had trouble sleeping. I had to take Trazodone to sleep. I ran out of trazodone and didn't sleep for 4 days. I felt like thrashing things and crying constantly. I felt so agitated..like i was going to explode. I started reading about depression on this board. And looking into my family history (which is vague--lots of untreated, undiagnosed mental illnesses).
I went back to my pdoc...told him about what happened before the depression and how I felt on the AD's...he said..."sounds like BPII". He put me on 25 mg zoloft and 100mg neurontin and said we'd "ramp up". I checked in with him after a week and my appetite had dwindled again. He said--up the zoloft...then I started feeling more anxious.
Then started this paranoia thing....
(I know this is long...thanks for reading...)
If you have any more input, let me know.fluffy
Posted by Krysti on November 23, 2002, at 23:19:02
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on November 23, 2002, at 16:37:24
Sounds familiar. I'm surprised you didn't become manic until after you stopped the Paxil though. When you're bipolar, taking AD's alone tends to bring it on (which sounds like what happened with the Lexapro).
My philosophy (and I'm no expert) is to try a mood stabilizer alone first and see how you do. That's just my opinion. I wouldn't want to be on 2 meds at first at once because then it gets too confusing trying to figure out if you're not feeling right which med is causing it. Depending on how you feel on the stabilizer, you could try adjusting the dose if need be or add an AD if you become depressed.
For me, the first stabilizer I was on was Depakote. It brought me down from the manic state and completely took away my anxiety (what a relief), but ended up making me feel really blah, like I had no personality anymore. I was also having difficulties staying focused at work and I was gaining weight rapidly. My pdoc switched me to Gabitril (stabilizer) - still no anxiety and no weight gain, but I started getting depressed and ended up crying for 2 days straight. That's when we tried adding the Lexapro. It brought back some of the anxiety, but at least I wasn't depressed anymore. I think I ended up being in sort of a mixed state though - didn't feel right -couldn't concentrate at work, felt too up but not in a good way. She then said she didn't think the Gabitril was keeping me stabilized so she took me off it and the Lexapro and switched me to Trileptal (stabilizer). So far, so good. If I end up feeling depressed though, I will try adding a different AD. That's my plan anyway. I think it helps just to have a plan. My pdoc always discusses the difference between the mood stabilizers and tells me why she's choosing them which helps also. I think just being involved in your own recovery helps because you don't feel so helpless then.
The sleeping thing is very typical. I have a prescription for Ambien to help me sleep if I need it. Going without sleep can bring on mania and make cycling worse. I only use it though when I feel I need it. That has been the great thing about the Trileptal too. I take 300mg in the morning and 600mg at night. After I take the pill at night, within an hour I can't even keep my eyes open. It has been such a relief, what most people take for granted - being able to fall asleep.
I hope this helps. Keep me posted on how you're doing and don't feel bad about making it long - I find it interesting to talk to people who are going through the same thing :)
Krysti
Posted by fluffy on November 24, 2002, at 11:21:52
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Krysti on November 23, 2002, at 23:19:02
Hey Krysti--
You have been soooo helpful!! I can't even tell you! You are right about the two drugs at the same time...it's confusing! But I decided to stick with the plan of taking the zoloft at night and neurontin during the day for the next couple of weeks and RECORDING MY MOOD!
(It does feel that when I do that, I'm trusting my own thoughts...and helps with a control freak like myself.)That was the best advice, ever. I have read about doing that, but I was thinking to myself--Nah--I can tell how I'm feeling. But it does help when you are trying out new meds. I have been relying on my pdoc too much to help me figure this out. I'M SOO STUBBORN!!
It's funny, too how you can judge your mood based on the clothes you choose to wear and such. I noticed today that I didn't opt for my "depression pants and sweater". I've been wearing the same damn jeans for weeks!! (and the same damn green cardigan with alternating tee-shirts.)
Anyways--thanks again--and Ta! for now.
Fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 25, 2002, at 16:35:57
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on November 24, 2002, at 11:21:52
Hey Fluffy, sorry about not taking more interesting in this conversation before but I completely lost the thread and well, I've been trying to get myself off of Effexor to see exactly I'm doing with just a mood stabilizer alone and that for about a week or so turned my head into jello.
Anyways, it's funny how when people are diagnosed with a certain condition, how much their personalities are also in common. Most of your messages I can totally relate to.
Now let's see... the friends issue, I've taken it like this. Since I've basically been a prisoner of this disease (meaning that it has taken up ALL of my time just about) since May, when I graduated from College for my 2nd time, I don't really have a whole lot that's interesting to say. I haven't been partying.. Hell.. I've been barely going out. Just dealing with this, taking my meds, doing as much research on this as I possibly can so that I'm "armed" for the future, etc. So now when I talk to my friends, I tell them basically exactly what's going on. If they say something stupid, like "Well, that's all in your head, you're strong enough to be able to deal with that without taking medications" then I simply don't have any room in my life for them anymore. I'm a very independent person and I've been strong enough to last through a life that has had TONS of extreme ups and downs (similar to my moods lol...) and I'm still alright. Most people that know my life story thus far couldn't imagine having to live through everything that I have and still be alright.
So with that being said, it doesn't matter how strong you are. This is one thing that you can't beat by yourself. I found that the harder I fought it, the worse it got, till it got to the point where it basically controlled me instead of how it's supposed to be, me controlling my condition.
When my Mom died, when I was 16, I fell into a DEEP depression for like 4 years without wanting any help with it. I always thought that I would be able to snap out of it myself. But after 4 years of basically torturing myself, I'm like, alright... I've got to do something here or I'm going to wind up destroying myself. So I went on Celexa for about 16 months. That pulled me right out of my depression. Weird since most doctors really advise against putting patients who are Bi-Polar on AD’s without having a mood stabilizer already working in your system. Funny part about it is that it worked. It worked so well that 16 months later I came off of Celexa completely because I had felt so well.
This led to another cycle for me. I went back to school full time and found that I had never at any time in my life been as productive as I could be at this point. God, my Term Papers were finished before even the first half of the Term was over. I was acing every one of my courses. I had just about quit sleeping, figured it was a waste of time seeing as that I didn’t need more than 3-4 hours a night in order to function properly. Actually, this is one of my main problems seeing as though I had NEVER been able to sleep properly ever since I was a baby. I was talking so fast that most people couldn’t understand a word I was saying and my thoughts were going even quicker than that. God, most of the time I couldn’t get a thought out of my head quick enough to say it so I would just stop mid sentence and jump to a completely different topic. But see, to me, they were all related. Things kept going quicker and quicker in my mind, I kept forcing myself to become more and more productive each day, I kept sleeping less and less, and well, I just kept on getting more and more F****d up in the head. The Term ended with me threatening a teacher that I was going to beat the Hell out of them with a baseball bat and I wound up getting banned from my Graduation Ceremony.
At this point I’m like, whoah… K, I need to relax, I’m going to take a looooong vacation away from all this stress. I figured that I was just mentally burned out to the extreme. Well, my mania subsided and I became what I now recognize as depression, but this was in fact just an EXTREME tiredness that never seemed to go away. I still couldn’t sleep so my body wasn’t getting the rest that it needed, and each day I was becoming more and more like a couch potato. Friends were calling me up because they were worried about me and every day I kept telling them, you know, I actually feel worse now than I did yesterday. At this point I decided to go out and see a PDoc that I’ve known since I was a little kid. Within 2 months of working together trying to figure out what was wrong, I stumbled across an article on manic depression and I’m like… this fits me to a T.
Well, for Bi-Polars, Krysti is right, your mood stabilizer is the key to getting better. I can’t believe that your Doctor would prescribe a higher dose of Zoloft while still keeping you on a (in my opinion) very weak mood stabilizer. Nerotonin has like the shortest half-life out of all the mood stabilizers. If I was in that position, I would have lowered my Zoloft dosage and increased my Nerotonin quite a bit. Or Hell, I’d just switch to a more effective mood stabilizer. Once you stop the cycling, the anxiety/depression seems to almost disappear with it. If it doesn’t go away completely, that’s when you try a very small dose of an AD to see if that does the trick.
I’m currently on 375mg of Depakote (which is my maintenance dose) and I think I’ve finally got enough of the Effexor out of my system to be able to quit it all together. I’m going to let myself go for a number of months on Depakote to make sure that I’m stabilized before I even think about going on any other SSRI’s. The only other medication that I’m taking with this is Clonazepam/Klonopin, at bedtime, because even with my moods pretty normal during the day, I still have a VERY hard time sleeping at night. I’m actually supposed to go to a sleep clinic to find out what the root of this problem is.
Keeping a journal every day is also extremely helpful. I started that up about a month ago and still post in it every day. Whenever you’re putting any drug into your system (even tobacco) post it in your journal and then about an hour after you take it, if you can, post again to show what your mood is like now. Any thoughts that you’re getting considering your mental condition, post it in there. If you don’t feel good, if you’re p’d off about something, if you’re depressed, if you’re hyper for no apparent reason, post it. That will help you gain some incredible insight into how to best keep yourself stable.
Keep educating yourself about your condition, read up as much as you can about manic depression, so that you can thoroughly understand for yourself exactly what you’re going through. It’s the best way to prepare for the future. If you’re going to be dealing with this for the rest of your life, it’s probably time now to give yourself that powerful foundation to treating yourself. For example, my PDoc is actually starting to be amazed at how well I understand what’s going on now. She doesn’t have to simplify anything for me anymore because even if she speaks in “medical language”, I understand completely what she’s talking about. That’s one of the gifts about being Bi-Polar I think, your mind is constantly hungry for new information, so you just keep feeding it. Eventually you’ll be one of the smartest people that just about anybody’s ever met. I missed out on the creativity that usually comes with being Bi-Polar, but man, my mind is like it’s own database lol… Right now, I would highly recommend you reading “The Bipolar Disorder Survival Guide” By: David J. Miklowitz This book is in VERY plain English, has numerous case studies, and covers just about everything that you want to know but can’t remember or don’t have the time to ask your PDoc about.
And yeah, you’re right, Krysti is the bomb. A few weeks ago when I really didn’t understand a thing, she helped give me some insight and some strength that enabled me to figure out exactly what was going on with myself. For that, I’ll always be in debt to Krysti. So if you’re reading this Krysti, just know that you REALLY helped me out.
Oh, and Fluffy, if you’ve got any questions, you can always either post them on this board or you can email me at: Michael_Cushing@hotmail.com and I’ll get back to you ASAP.
Mike
Posted by Krysti on November 25, 2002, at 17:12:29
In reply to To Fluffy, posted by Mr Cushing on November 25, 2002, at 16:37:18
Hi Mike,
Wow, what a great post! I especially like the part about me : )
Seriously though, you're very good at spelling things out for people. It sounds like you are feeling better too : ) I will have to get that book you read - maybe I'll stop by the library tonight. You're going to get in trouble from Dr. Bob for not using double double quotes though so it will link to Amazon. Ex: "book title".
I just got done reading "A Brilliant Madness" by Patty Duke. It was a good book, but is kind of out of date since it was written so long ago. Informative about the different degrees of bipolar though.
I am still doing great - I really really hope this lasts. It's amazing how much you don't realize how not quite right you really feel until you feel good. It's also amazing that just being on the right medication for you does the trick. This has definitely been the best one for me yet. Still a little concerned I'll end up becoming too happy again, but so far so good. I am also falling asleep like a baby at night so I'm not too worried about it. It's funny anytime we feel good we have to be concerned about that too.
Thank you for your comments about me, I really appreciate you letting me know I was able to help you. It makes me feel good to try to help out other people in this situation. I know how I felt when I was first diagnosed (and the 6 years before that). I wish I would have found this site back then.
It's also helpful to me too to be able to talk to you and others with the same thing. It is interesting how much we all have in common and how smart we all are ; )
Krysti
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 25, 2002, at 18:05:12
In reply to Re: To Fluffy, posted by Krysti on November 25, 2002, at 17:12:29
lol... I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but seriously... Dr Bob needs to get a grip. If he would actually expect people on this board to remember to put double quotes around any book that they're talking about... I mean, come on!!! Do we all not have enough things to worry about and wrap our still mangled minds around other than learning how to double quote every book title? lol... anyways, that's just my take on it. I've got to many other things that I need to worry about, such as my illness....The good part though is that my head is starting to work a lot better during the last few weeks since I started on the Depakote though. Even though I'm going through Effexor HELL at the moment, I'm still able to think more clearly. I've read 3 books within the past week and am like half-way through my 4th. When I'm able to read material like that, I know my head is working properly again.
That's one of the blessings of Manic Depression though. Your mind is a lot quicker than the average persons. I'm able to retain sooooo much material that it's almost sickening. I can learn most things (other than numbers which confuse me when they're not related to money) at the drop of a hat. I can read over material and be able to hold it upstairs for like extended periods of time. People have been asking me for a while now to try and write out my life story so far since I've led a VERY interesting and wild life up till this point (and I'm still only 24 lol...) but the thing is that when I write, I can ramble on and on about something forever. Like you said, I can spell out a certain situation with ease so that just about anybody can relate to what I'm talking about. But when it comes to creative writing, like using all those adjectives and adverbs and stuff to describe a simple situation, then I'm screwed. My Doctor says that I have like a photographic memory except that it doesn't process colours, dates, and stuff like that.
Like if somebody were to tell me something, I'd remember pretty much word for word everything that they said, except if you asked me what day they said it on, I'd be like, ummmm... Or if you asked me if the speaker was wearing a green or red shirt that day, I'd be like, Jeez....
But same thing, like people have been telling me my entire life, I'm happiest when I have something to apply my mind to. Whether it's reading a book, writing a paper, doing a project, etc. I'm happiest when I'm able to put my head to good use. When I'm not (except for now with the mood stabilizer starting to take effect) my mind would be all over the place thinking about everything. Now though, my mind is kind of just sitting there saying "Mike... don't you remember me? I'm hungry, feed me!!!".
K, I'm done for now, need to go pick up some more Depakote because my supply runs out tomorrow morning.
Posted by ST on November 25, 2002, at 20:12:21
In reply to Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by fluffy on November 10, 2002, at 11:47:23
Hi Katy,
I got three opinions on my diagnosis - just to be absolutely sure. They all said the same thing. I do fit the traits of BP2, keeping in mind that it manifests itself differently in every one. Learn as much as you can. The internet, books..whatever you can find on BP. I made sure I educated myself so that I could feel in control of my illness and my treatment. Empower yourself with more knowledge and, hey, why not get a second opinion?
Good luck,
Sarah
Posted by fluffy on November 27, 2002, at 11:34:10
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by ST on November 25, 2002, at 20:12:21
Hello all..
You all are so sweet--(and salty--salt of the earth!)
So I went off of zoloft completely and have been continuing in my journal. I have been in a really good, chipper mood for the last three days. (That's what happened when I went off of Lexapro the last time) Methinks this is not a fluke. I made cookies and dyed my hair last night...like a regular Doris Day..it was fun.
I picked up the book that Mr. Cushing mentioned at the library last week and have been reading it...very helpful!! But I find that when I'm feeling good, I tend not to think about my "broken brain" as much. I also tend to not want to take meds as well. I should watch that.As far as getting a second opinion. Well--I frantically searched for a new pdoc on monday who would be able to take new patients (on my insurance plan) and it's a no-go. So as much as I'm pissed at my current pdoc, I have to work with him right now. My therapist seems to agree with the diagnosis--and so do I when I am feeling depressed...
I don't understand why he upped my AD's!! I felt like a giant piece of crying, dysphornicating, paranoid, imploding DOO-DOO. I also feel that Neurontin has been marginally effective...but it has helped with anxiety a bit.For now, I'm feeling good and I want to hold onto it...It's the first time in about 4 months that I've felt like "myself".
Everyone have a lovely turkey day...
Thanks again for all your posts. I'll let you all know how it goes after my next appt. with my pdoc this monday.lovins..
fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 27, 2002, at 14:02:35
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by fluffy on November 27, 2002, at 11:34:10
Hey Fluffy, just keep reading that book and you'll see why you should stick with your medication even if you start to feel better. Also, it gives you a more in-depth understanding of what medications you could try, should try, and what to watch for when you're on it (Chapter #5 I think...).I think that with the proper education that you really shouldn't have to worry about dealing with a doctor that doesn't fully understand the Bi-Polar condition. In the book, in bold letters, it explains why you should not try ADs without a mood stabilizer in place. Basically, as long as you know what you're doing for your condition, and you can explain to this doctor what you think you should do, then you'll be better off.
So just keep reading that book and keep on your mood stabilizer.
Posted by Krysti on November 27, 2002, at 14:35:58
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after a BP diagnosis?, posted by Mr Cushing on November 27, 2002, at 14:02:35
Hi fluffy,
NOOOOO, don't go off your meds when you're feeling good : )
Remember the meds are helping to make you feel that way and to keep you from being a yoyo - up and down, up and down. Another reason not to do it is I've read SO many posts where people went off their meds because they were feeling good and then when they crashed, those meds didn't work for them anymore. So then they had to start back at the beginning again and hope to find another med or combo that works. Plus, when untreated, bipolar can get worse. I have an example:
Not too long ago, my friend was telling me about a girl she met that was bipolar. The girl went off her meds and for a while she felt fine. Then, she ended up getting paranoid and thought her boyfriend and his friends wanted to kill her. She ran out of the house into the middle of the street and flagged down a car. The guy stopped and let her in and took her to the police station. When she got to the police station, she was still freaked out and just wanted to get away, so she jumped in a car that was running outside (which happened to be one of the cop's - not his police car, but his regular one). She ended up driving off the road going really fast and slammed into a tree (still thinking there were people chasing her trying to kill her). Luckily, she walked away without getting hurt, but is now sitting in jail charged with Grand Theft Auto (which is a felony) among other things.
Point being, be very careful about playing around with your meds and if you find ones that work and feel good, keep taking them so you continue to feel good : )
I'm happy to hear you are doing so much better : )
Krysti
Posted by fluffy on November 29, 2002, at 11:02:44
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Krysti on November 23, 2002, at 15:08:19
Hello all...
I hope your Thanksgiving went well. Mine was, well...a depressed crying blur. Sure enough, my buzzing, chipper personality crawled back into the cocoon of depression on Wednesday. I took a nap after lunch because I was feeling soooo sleepy. Within a few hours, my brain was totally numb again.
I barely made it to my parents' house for turkey day. Just wanted to SLEEP and cry.
I told my little brother who suffers from seizures that I was also on anti-convulsants. (he just turned 21) He thought that was funny... Then he proceeded to tell me that sometimes seizure drugs are "FUN" because sometimes he has these waking dreams where people have to "wake him up". He said that sometimes he hears a grunting noise when he's awake..or sometimes the voice of a radio DJ playing over and over in his head. (I didn't even ASK him!) He just started telling me this as though it was "cool". But he said he would never tell my mom and dad, though.
Does this strike anyone else as strange? I don't want to play armchair psychiatrist, but maybe this is an early sign of scitzophrenia? I told him that he could tell me anytime if it starts to happen and he's scared.
My mom and dad are totally in denial about our mental problems in the family...like, hey--it's fine...no problems here...just go to church and everything will be fine.
I'm so glad that spanksgiving is over.
Back at work today and in a decent mood.
At this point, this thread is acting as my mood log and journal. Hope no-one minds.
Later,
fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 29, 2002, at 13:08:47
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on November 29, 2002, at 11:02:44
Hey Fluffy, no Thanksgiving over here since we Canadians celebrated it last month. Anyways, when you quit any AD it can play really nasty tricks with your head. I'm still going through withdrawal from Effexor and honestly, I felt that I was going psychotic for a little bit. The dreams I would have at night would literally wake me up either screaming or in tears. I was also bouncing around with my moods all over the place. So, that crying spell that you had could be from the Zoloft withdrawal. Plus, you did it cold turkey, right? So that would give you even worse withdrawal effects.No anticonvulsant (sp?) ever gave me voices in my head. God, that would scare me if it did. Whether that's an early sign of Skitzo, I don't know. I know this though... one of my friends suffers from a form of psychosis. He's been taking Risperdol (I think I'm having a bad spelling day lol...) every night now for 4 years. We had a talk about mood disorders just a few weeks ago, and he told me that when he noticed there was something wrong was when things started to get really scary for him. He would hear voices coming out of the TV set. He said that they weren't saying anything violent, or do this or do that or anything, he would just hear people talking directly to him coming from the TV. So he would sit there and talk back to them. His Dad would ask him who he was talking to, and he kept thinking, sh!t.. this isn't good. Then when he would try to fall asleep for the night, he would have horrible insomnia because the voices would just keep bugging him and he would have to keep telling them to leave him alone that he was trying to sleep.
Anyways, he says that the Risperdal really helps him and that he doesn't hear the voices as often anymore.
Anyways, got some things to do today, got to start moving
Mike
Posted by Krysti on November 29, 2002, at 19:14:50
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on November 29, 2002, at 11:02:44
Hi Katy,
It's good to hear from you : )
It sounds to me like you are still cycling. I just read some info about Neurontin and it seems like you are on a pretty small dose. I also read a lot of comments that it is a pretty weak stabilizer and because of that, is usually used in conjunction with other stabilizers. You might want to bring this up to your pdoc and see what he/she has to say. I'm glad you went off the Zoloft, being on an AD went you're not stabilized just makes it worse. When is your next pdoc appointment? If I were you, I'd call him and tell him what is going on with you. I know how hard and confusing it is to have your moods cycling so much. It's like one day - hey, I'm fine, I'll feel better now, great. Then the next day it's like, what happened??? I felt fine just yesterday! Sound familiar? I went through it for years before I even realized there must be something wrong! I started asking people at work if they went through this. They would tell me no and I thought they were lying to me!!! lol - now!
About your brother, I have never heard of that being a side effect of an anti-convulsant. It does sound like a form of schizophrenia to me (that of course is my unprofessional opinion). That's sad that your family is so in denial. All that will do is prolong the problem. There are so many medications out there to help, but if they won't even admit there is a problem, there is no chance of that. I would also tell your pdoc about your brother and ask his advice on what to do. If it is schizophrenia, that could get really scary if left untreated. Do you know how long he has been hearing things? Does he realize there may be something more serious going on?
Krysti
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 29, 2002, at 22:25:36
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Krysti on November 29, 2002, at 19:14:50
Krysti, do people cycle that quickly though with Bi-Polar II? I'm curious about that, been trying to figure out the difference between BP 1 and BP 2. lol... what I get up to when I don't have something to feed my mind. But I would think that drastic mood swings like that would remain with BP1s, like I go through.However, coming off of any SSRI like that, cold turkey, really screws things up. Think about the emails that I sent you the first 2 days that I was going through Effexor withdrawals. Not fun, that Sh!t plays tricks with your head... They're good for certain things, but man... Coming off of them, especially when done fast, makes you feel like you're going crazy. I still don't feel too much better yet and it's a week tomorrow.
And from what my friend told me last week, there's a lot of different forms of Psychosis, not just Schizophrenia. Like I said in my message to Katy, he hears voices. He'll sit there and have a conversation with his TV or suffer from insomnia because the voices won't let him sleep. He's not DX'd as being schizophrenic, but what he does have is long-term and he has to take Risperdal every day. So just keep a watch over him, if he's talking to people that aren't there, if he's starting to see things, etc. It's not always violent or bad, or even scary, but it does need to be treated. From what I can tell with my friend, being Bi-Polar is actually harder than being psychotic. I mean, he's taking 1 medication and it's the only one he's tried and it's always worked. I'm still trying to find the right mix!!!
Posted by vagen on November 30, 2002, at 1:45:48
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy » Krysti, posted by Mr Cushing on November 29, 2002, at 22:25:36
Scary thought: what if we are the norm?
Ick.
I was dx'd bp when I was 16, after being admitted to a drug rehab. Now, here I am 32 and looking back I can see that I did have some time here and there where i was happy and at peace. I also did not have any big stressors in my life.
I think I have to accept that this is the norm for me and not base anything on how anyone else 'appears to be'.
I think that the 'normal' ppl don't have a 1/2 of the passion that we can experience, that they don't always know how to deal with themselves, and sometimes, do not have compassion.
One thing I have learned the past week or so is don't compare their outsides with your insides.
I think we have so much more insight into life.
ANd, I have written/drawn some amazing stuff while cycling.
ONe last thing, and I never thought I would say this: my mom said take advantage of what this disease can offer you and try to use it to help others.
Just felt like babbling. thx!
Posted by fluffy on November 30, 2002, at 11:21:39
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by vagen on November 30, 2002, at 1:45:48
Hi guys--
Yeah--I would definitely characterize what's been happening over the past week or so as "cycling". I can almost feel the gears turning one way or the other now. Like when my teeth feel clenched, I'm going up...I start to have ideas and plans...and I want to eat--really, really fast...then when I feel sleepy and numb, I'm going down. I don't really know if I'm BP1 or 2. I have never been acutely manic...just hypo (as my journal entries evidence). But I have DEFINITELY been clinically depressed for months at a time. It was only recently that the AD's backfired...and I felt so scared and paranoid on them, that I don't know if I would have become fully manic.(or maybe i WAS fully manic) Wanting to thrash things and yell and clinging to people crying doesn't seem right. Maybe I was mixed??
So who the hell knows. I don't really care anymore about the label...I just don't want to feel like sh!t warmed over one day and happy-chappy the next. It's confusing the hell out of my friends and family...not to mention myself.
I've got plenty to discuss with my doctor on monday. (i wrote my queries down so this time I won't forget.)
BTW, if you all lived in Texas, I'd take you to lunch. (isn't the internet great, though?)
Keep in touch!
fluffy
Posted by fluffy on November 30, 2002, at 11:28:08
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by vagen on November 30, 2002, at 1:45:48
Oh yeah--
Vagen-- I really like how you put it...."Don't compare peoples' outsides with your insides"
That is some good advice for ANYONE--BP or not.
Thanks!
fluffy
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 30, 2002, at 11:55:57
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by fluffy on November 30, 2002, at 11:21:39
Great to hear that you're doing better today Katy. I've been kind of cycling like crazy over the past week myself. Today I feel really depressed, like no energy, don't want to do anything but lie around and watch TV, slept like 11 hours straight last night, etc. Personally, I think my body is telling me that I shouldn't be smoking so much Mary Jane anymore. That's depressing in itself, but we'll see how I do with a break from that. If I feel immensely better tomorrow then today is most likely from that.I know I'm mixed when it comes to labels. I remember my PDoc reading out this big list of symptoms and asking me if I had ever experienced anything similar to that. For just about every one I'm like, yep, and then would give her about 3-4 examples. Her response... well... you are definitely Bi-Polar, no question about that lol...
The hardest part I think about getting used to living with this is all the adjustments that I have to make in my life to ummmmm, support my mental health (?). My last 12 years or so anyways have been like a big long scary rollercoaster ride. I find that a lot of my old memories are starting to come back to me now though. I still have trouble remembering quite a bit from the point that I was like 14 till I was 20, but more and more memories are coming back now. If I ever get them all straightened out, I should definitely write a book about them though lol...
Where in Texas are you anyways? I'm in Ottawa, Ontario... and it's FREEZING up here right now so you're lucky to be where it's warm all year
Anyways, just rambling on today, so I guess I should stop now.....
Posted by Krysti on November 30, 2002, at 13:45:05
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy » Krysti, posted by Mr Cushing on November 29, 2002, at 22:25:36
Hey Mike,
The difference between Bipolar I and Bipolar II is people with Bipolar I have had at least one manic episode. People with Bipolar II have only had hypomania. Rapid cycling can be a part of either. (From what I've read.)
The difference between hypomania and mania is you are still able to function when you are hypomanic. Looking back on it, I have been hypomanic at work a lot of times. When I became manic though, there is no way I would have been able to function at work. My thoughts were going so fast, I couldn't stay focused on any one thing. I was all over the place, I was just running around doing whatever came to my mind. I would start doing one thing, then stop in the middle of it and do something else. I had ALL the signs of mania and also became delusional, which is definitely a sure sign.
I just read somewhere though that hearing voices can be a part of bipolar so I shouldn't have said it sounded like schizophrenia. I always think of hearing voices as schizophrenia. There can be a lot of similarities between a lot of disorders and even the doctors have a hard time diagnosing people. I am sure that hearing voices though is not normal. I hope he is able to get help.
As far as quitting SSRI's and what that can do to you, you definitely know better than I. To my knowledge, I haven't had any reaction from it. When I went on the Depakote, I quit taking the Paxil cold turkey. The Paxil was what had made me so manic, so I had to quit taking it. Who knows though if it had any effect on me or not. I don't think so though.
I guess I base my opinions on what I've gone through, but everyone's experiences are different. Whether it's a withdrawal from the Zoloft or not though, it sounds like rapid cycling, which can happen from SSRI's and probably withdrawal from.
I hope no one takes what I say as verbatim. I am not a doctor and have no training and don't mean to imply I know for sure what's going on. I just try to share what I've read about it.
As far as your friend being lucky to have found the right med for him on the first time, yes he is : ) You'll get there though. I think we're the lucky ones for having this rather than psychotic episodes (which I guess I had when I became delusional - but, at least it was a good delusion ) : ) But, we've gotten to experience the highs that come along with being bipolar. I think it's ironic that I have to take drugs in order to not feel like I'm on drugs! Being hypomanic is a great feeling, isn't it??? Too bad that everything has to be balanced and along with the periods of hypomania have to come the periods of depression. I think I'd rather have this though than thinking the TV was talking to me and talking back to it. That would scare the heck out of me! Actually, I still think the worse thing out of all this was the anxiety. Oh, and the crying spells! How embarrassing, to be a so-called professional and sitting at work and crying! I still would rather have people see me doing that though than talking to a TV : )
Krysti
Posted by fluffy on November 30, 2002, at 14:07:35
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy, posted by Mr Cushing on November 30, 2002, at 11:55:57
Hey-ya Mr. Cush--
I'm in Houston, actually. And you're right--I am very lucky to be here now. I have the door wide open right now, letting in the fresh air. (probably not FRESH--it is Houston, after all)
But it is about 70 degrees outside...
It's funny, though, because we dream about snow-covered rooves and drinking hot cocoa by the fire. I have about 20 sweaters that get worn once or twice per winter season. But the HEAT!! Oh my...it is truly HELL from late spring to early fall. No-one goes outside, and there is WAAAY too much skin showing..it's kinda disgusting on most people.
Are we gonna get banned from this board for socializing? Maybe I should start typing about Zoloft really quick.
Ta!
Katy
Posted by Mr Cushing on November 30, 2002, at 14:16:49
In reply to Re: Is there ever a normal after BP - fluffy » Mr Cushing, posted by Krysti on November 30, 2002, at 13:45:05
Talking to a TV and having a TV talk back to you would definitely be interesting though, wouldn't it? If it was just for the short term? *shrugs* He's got to be VERY careful though, along with his meds. If he has anything to drink, smokes a joint, or does anything similar, he's completely off his rocker. I made that mistake with him a few weeks back. Never again, and I questioned him about it later why he didn't say something first about what it could do to him.Today, I feel really horrible, not too sure what's going on. I've got the shakes pretty badly. I'm really giddy, it's like I have a ton of energy except I can't seem to concentrate on anything for a prolonged period of time, I'm jumping from reading a book, to the Net, to watching TV, to just walking around the house looking for something to do. But on the other end of that, I'm absolutely exhausted at the same time. I slept 11 hours straight last night and I'm STILL tired. My eyes hurt :-(
I don't think I've done anything too bad over the past few days. I've still maintained my normal sleeping pattern, fall asleep at midnight, but I've been waking up later and later these past few days. At first it was no problem to be back up at 8:30 or so the next day. Then it was 9:30... last night I slept straight from about 12:15 to 10:45 this morning. This obviously is screwing up my medication schedule since I'm trying to take my meds every day at 9AM and 9PM. If I'm still out like a light at 9AM then I obviously can't subconsciously take them then.
I'm also having really weird cold sweats today. I mean, it IS snowing outside pretty heavily and all of that, but the Thermostat says that it's 70 degrees Celsius in here so I should be fairly warm. And I'm cold, but I'm sweating heavily at the same time.
I can't think of anything that I've been doing to really affect me negatively other than smoking a bit of weed over the past week and quitting my Effexor. But today is a week since my last dose of Effexor. Shouldn't things be kind of back to normal by now?
*shrugs* I'm supposed to see my PDoc this Thursday anyways, but if things get worse, at all, I'm going to call her and see if I can push up that appointment a little bit.
Starting to feel a little cooked out again :-(
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