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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 18, 2002, at 22:55:26
In reply to Info help please: Fish oil virgin, posted by Jerrympls on November 18, 2002, at 20:02:42
> "yourLife" brand
> Natural 1000mg Fish Oil w/ Omega-3 Fatty acids
> 180mg EPA, 120mg DHA per softgel.
> Ingrediants: Natural Fish Oil concentrate: 1000mg, EPA, DHA, gelatin, glycerin, d-Alpha ToccopherolThe d-Alpha Tocopherol is important. That's vitamin E, and will help keep the oil fresh.
> He said side effects would be minimal - if at all. But I'm wondering about digestive effects- fishy taste, bowel movements -
Fishy burps can occur, if you take the oil on an empty stomach, or the oil is low quality. Try to take it just after your biggest meal of the day.
> Can anyone help me out with some info?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
Posted by Ritch on November 18, 2002, at 23:34:30
In reply to Info help please: Fish oil virgin, posted by Jerrympls on November 18, 2002, at 20:02:42
> My doc put me on Omega-3 fatty acid fish oil pill things today. He citied a just published article in the journal of psychiatry that found benefits from the supplements in those suffering from depression.
>
> So, with nothing to lose, I bought some and I'm not sure how much - brand, etc. I should take. I've been reading some previous posts regarding fish oils but I'm still learning. I've listed below the brand, etc of the fish oil supplements I just got:
>
> "yourLife" brand
> Natural 1000mg Fish Oil w/ Omega-3 Fatty acids
> 180mg EPA, 120mg DHA per softgel.
> Ingrediants: Natural Fish Oil concentrate: 1000mg, EPA, DHA, gelatin, glycerin, d-Alpha Toccopherol
>
> He said side effects would be minimal - if at all. But I'm wondering about digestive effects- fishy taste, bowel movements -
>
> Can anyone help me out with some info?
>
> Thanks in advance
>Jerry, how much does your pdoc think you should take? You didn't tell us how much.
Posted by oracle on November 19, 2002, at 0:56:38
In reply to is there a downside to fish oil?, posted by babs on November 18, 2002, at 22:17:23
Concentrated fish products always contain some amount of DDT. Consider plant sources for the EFA's. Oils are concentrated products so it pays to have real organically grown sources.
Posted by ArthurGibson on November 19, 2002, at 3:48:19
In reply to is there a downside to fish oil?, posted by babs on November 18, 2002, at 22:17:23
Yes, facial paralysis can occur if you take too much. Bowel problems decline over a few days, but then become beneficial. (If you know what I mean without going into details!!)
My advice is start at a lower does. I never go over 1,000 mg per day and that cured me within days. Its not a high amount, so I shall cut it to about 800mg next year and stay on it for life. I am sure that some will need more than me.
Its not just depression that it can cure, it stabilises mood and seems to control anger as well.
I think that the fish oil thig is just a trace element rquirement in some people, like me.
For twenty years I had another problem. As the darkness of night came on, it always upset my nerves, sometimes badly. But this problem seems to have also gone. I don't know if it was the fish oil, I just hope it never comes back.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 11:10:08
In reply to is there a downside to fish oil?, posted by babs on November 18, 2002, at 22:17:23
> i've been taking it for a few days now- 6 capsules per day of the 1000 mg pill with the 180/120 ratio. My body seems to be processing it OK- no major upsets, but I'm just wondering if there are any undesirable effects to be aware of. Is it possible to take too much fish oil?
I'm sorry to not have mentioned this before.....my assumptions were limited to considering only those subjects not taking certain meds......
Fish oil can reduce clotting tendency (coaguability) of the blood. Anyone on 'blood thinners' e.g. coumadin should notify their doctor before taking large amounts of fish oil. You may need to have your clotting parameters re-assessed, and dosage adjusted. This is a good thing, but you shouldn't take fish oil without considering the improvement in coaguability caused by the fish oil.
Also, fish oil can temporarily screw up blood sugar regulation, particularly in type 2 diabetics, and those with so-called Syndrome X (insulin resistance). Some people develop high blood sugar, some low. You may need to monitor yourself more closely for a few weeks. Afterwards, upon adaptation to the fish oil, insulin resistance will be reduced, through induction of musculo-skeletal insulin receptors.
Posted by babs on November 19, 2002, at 12:00:34
In reply to Re: downside to fish oil? Warning!, posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 11:10:08
Neither should be a problem as I am not on blood-thinners nor am I diabetic. am I taking too much though?
Posted by Kari on November 19, 2002, at 13:28:49
In reply to Re: downside to fish oil? Warning!, posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 11:10:08
Hi Larry,
If fish oil can reduce clotting tendency, do you know if it would be safe to take it if blood tests (PT and I.N.R.) show reduced blood coaguability (not due to blood thinners)?
Thanks,
Kari.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 13:48:43
In reply to Thanks Larry!, posted by babs on November 19, 2002, at 12:00:34
> Neither should be a problem as I am not on blood-thinners nor am I diabetic. am I taking too much though?
I do not believe that you can take too much. Your body will induce beta-oxidation in peroxysomes, and use the excess as fuel. But why would you want to burn it as an energy source? It's too expensive for that.
It's just my speculation, but induction of the metabolic destruction of EPA may be behind the lack of effect seen in antidepressant augmentation with ethyl-eicosapentaenoate at 2 and 4 grams/day, when compared to just one gram per day. In that sense, you maybe *can* take too much, but only as a waste of input.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 13:59:30
In reply to Re: downside to fish oil? Warning! » Larry Hoover, posted by Kari on November 19, 2002, at 13:28:49
> Hi Larry,
> If fish oil can reduce clotting tendency, do you know if it would be safe to take it if blood tests (PT and I.N.R.) show reduced blood coaguability (not due to blood thinners)?
> Thanks,
> Kari.I do not know the answer to that, and even if I thought I did, I wouldn't answer the question. This is something to take up with your doctor.
Posted by linkadge on November 20, 2002, at 5:54:43
In reply to Re: downside to fish oil? Warning!, posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 13:59:30
The studies on fish oil do reveal some
anti platlet activity but researchers
believe the man cardioprotective effect
is because of its ability to improve the
electicity of blood vessles.Linkadge
Posted by Kari on November 20, 2002, at 7:23:31
In reply to Re: downside to fish oil? Warning!, posted by Larry Hoover on November 19, 2002, at 13:59:30
I figured that doctors are so into meds that they wouldn't really know enough about fish oil :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2002, at 22:01:23
In reply to Re: is there a downside to fish oil?, posted by ArthurGibson on November 19, 2002, at 3:48:19
I've been taking fish oil for the past year at the recommendation of my pdoc, and I thought it really helped. But now, with all these great, informative posts, I know more about WHY! This is valuable information I don't think I would ever have found without PB,- thank you, smart people!
Pfinstegg
Posted by freedom2001 on November 22, 2002, at 1:40:06
In reply to Fish oil- who knew?, posted by Pfinstegg on November 21, 2002, at 22:01:23
> I've been taking fish oil for the past year at the recommendation of my pdoc, and I thought it really helped. But now, with all these great, informative posts, I know more about WHY! This is valuable information I don't think I would ever have found without PB,- thank you, smart people!
>
> Pfinstegggreat to hear that you are another successful case of using fish oil. May I know what medical condition do you have?
Thanks.
Posted by BeardedLady on November 22, 2002, at 3:59:08
In reply to Re: Fish oil- who knew? » Pfinstegg, posted by freedom2001 on November 22, 2002, at 1:40:06
Posted by sjb on November 22, 2002, at 8:11:28
In reply to Re: Fish oil- who knew? » Pfinstegg, posted by freedom2001 on November 22, 2002, at 1:40:06
I'd be interested to know specifically what fish oils folks are taking with success. I go to websites at iherb, Puritan's Pride, etc and am overwhelmed by the choices, prices, etc. I'd like to get the most bang for my buck and not have to take a lot pills, also. I am taking Cod Liver oil which has a lot of EPA, but some here have warned of taking this form for a long period of time. I'm confused.
I may go the omegabrite site again, although aren't they pricey? If they're the best, I'll buy there.
Thanks.
Posted by Pfinstegg on November 22, 2002, at 8:51:31
In reply to Re: Fish oil- who knew? » Pfinstegg, posted by freedom2001 on November 22, 2002, at 1:40:06
Hi Freedom.. I have Major Depressive Disorder, unipolar, with endocrine abnormalities associated-hypothyroidism, hypercortisolism and DST non-suppression. Keep up the good- and informative- work!
Pfinstegg
Posted by Ritch on November 22, 2002, at 10:00:12
In reply to Re: Fish oil- what brands/dosages are folks taking, posted by sjb on November 22, 2002, at 8:11:28
> I'd be interested to know specifically what fish oils folks are taking with success. I go to websites at iherb, Puritan's Pride, etc and am overwhelmed by the choices, prices, etc. I'd like to get the most bang for my buck and not have to take a lot pills, also. I am taking Cod Liver oil which has a lot of EPA, but some here have warned of taking this form for a long period of time. I'm confused.
>
> I may go the omegabrite site again, although aren't they pricey? If they're the best, I'll buy there.
>
> Thanks.I'm just taking two capsules per day of Nature's Way 180/120 EPA/DHA run-of-the-mill fish oil (1G total oils per cap-cheap). Any more than that provokes diarrhea or causes some minor sleep disruption. If money saving is what you are after I would just find a cheap standard fish oil at Walgreen's/Walmart/local store that *doesn't* give you much of a nasty fish burp. Maybe folks here ought to post about some of the "fishier" brands to perhaps avoid. FWIW, I had a cheap jug of "NOW Max EPA" and before I finished it one of the capsules split open inside the container and leaked (nasty). I kept it in the refrigerator. I noticed that when I took the container out to get a capsule, humidity from the room air was rapidly condensing on the capsules inside the jug. I keep it in a cupboard now instead (at room temp).
Posted by BeardedLady on November 23, 2002, at 7:15:21
In reply to Re: Fish oil- what brands/dosages are folks taking » sjb, posted by Ritch on November 22, 2002, at 10:00:12
I burp up everything, as I have reflux, but there's nothing fishy about my burp.
I have Rite Aid Natural Fish Oil, 75 Softgels for about ten bucks. It's got 360 EPA and 240 DHA, and it says to take one softgel two times a day after a meal and with a full glass of water. I think following those instructions is important for avoiding the burps.
The study about fish oil working with ADs used 1 gram of EPA per day. I don't think any other part of the fish oil was given.
This dose would give me 3/4 gram of EPA. According to the American Journal of Psychiatry, one gram improves your sleep.
But every body is different.
Posted by BeardedLady on November 23, 2002, at 7:19:04
In reply to Re: Fish oil- what brands/dosages are folks taking » sjb, posted by Ritch on November 22, 2002, at 10:00:12
> I'm just taking two capsules per day of Nature's Way 180/120 EPA/DHA run-of-the-mill fish oil (1G total oils per cap-cheap).That sounds like 600 mg. a day, to me. What other oils are in the capsule?
Maybe you should find one with just EPA/DHA so it doesn't wreck your sleep?
I know nothing about fish oil except that someone said it must also have d-alpha Tocopherol (vitamin E), which mine does. This was just the cheapest thing on the shelf.
Posted by bubblegumchewer on November 23, 2002, at 9:17:41
In reply to one gram? » Ritch, posted by BeardedLady on November 23, 2002, at 7:19:04
Not to offend anyone who likes buying cheap, but I believe that quality is important so as to avoid heavy metal contamination. Maybe I'm just a sucker who bought a company's hype, but I believe what Nordic Naturals says about their purification process. I got their name plus omegabrite's from a doctor's list of reputable purveyors of fish oil supplements (sorry, can't remember who compiled the list but it had something to do with bipolarkids.org)
At one point I was duped into thinking my normal child was "bipolar" and I no longer think so. But at least I got some good education out of the experience. The two brands I trust are omegabrite (yes, they're pricey) for my kids (because the capsules are smaller) and nordic naturals for myself and the hub. http://www.nordicnaturals.com I get the high EPA formula.
Posted by bubblegumchewer on November 23, 2002, at 9:42:25
In reply to Fish oil brands, posted by bubblegumchewer on November 23, 2002, at 9:17:41
The brands are listed near the bottom of the page. http://www.bipolarchild.com/newsletters/0501.html
Posted by Ritch on November 23, 2002, at 10:04:32
In reply to one gram? » Ritch, posted by BeardedLady on November 23, 2002, at 7:19:04
>
> > I'm just taking two capsules per day of Nature's Way 180/120 EPA/DHA run-of-the-mill fish oil (1G total oils per cap-cheap).
>
> That sounds like 600 mg. a day, to me. What other oils are in the capsule?
>
> Maybe you should find one with just EPA/DHA so it doesn't wreck your sleep?
>
> I know nothing about fish oil except that someone said it must also have d-alpha Tocopherol (vitamin E), which mine does. This was just the cheapest thing on the shelf.Hi Beardy, I can't find on the label just what the "other" oils are. I really believe that taking either too much Effexor or taking it too close to bedtime is causing more of the sleep disruption than the fish oil. I am beginning to believe that the fish oil "enables" the AD to disrupt my sleep. I have reduced my already tiny dose of Effex. to a microcosmal level and I am sleeping better already. I had a sleepwalking episode after taking 12.5mg of it a few nights ago, so I really think it is the culprit now....
Posted by Ritch on November 23, 2002, at 10:07:04
In reply to Fish oil brands, posted by bubblegumchewer on November 23, 2002, at 9:17:41
> Not to offend anyone who likes buying cheap, but I believe that quality is important so as to avoid heavy metal contamination. Maybe I'm just a sucker who bought a company's hype, but I believe what Nordic Naturals says about their purification process. I got their name plus omegabrite's from a doctor's list of reputable purveyors of fish oil supplements (sorry, can't remember who compiled the list but it had something to do with bipolarkids.org)
>
> At one point I was duped into thinking my normal child was "bipolar" and I no longer think so. But at least I got some good education out of the experience. The two brands I trust are omegabrite (yes, they're pricey) for my kids (because the capsules are smaller) and nordic naturals for myself and the hub. http://www.nordicnaturals.com I get the high EPA formula.
If you feel concerned about the contaminant issue, then get the cleaner stuff I say. If I was giving fish oil to a child I would probably be more inclined to do that myself. However, I think just from the standpoint of "fishiness", there is quite a bit of variability in the "cheap" brands for comparable prices.
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 23, 2002, at 10:43:18
In reply to Fish oil brands, posted by bubblegumchewer on November 23, 2002, at 9:17:41
> Not to offend anyone who likes buying cheap, but I believe that quality is important so as to avoid heavy metal contamination.
There are no heavy metals detectable in commercial fish oils (for an example of such analysis, you can go to www.consumerlab.com).
The reason has nothing to do with cheap, or purification. It's a purely physico-chemical outome; metal ions are not fat-soluble. The contaminants in fish oil are likely to be the fat-soluble organic chemicals, like DDT and PCBs. There's already a thread on that topic.
Mercury, lead, and other heavy metals bind powerfully to protein. That's one of the reasons they're so toxic. Enzymes are protein structures, and they don't work well (or at all) if they're associated with heavy metals.
Fish meat has heavy metals in it (but so does cow). Fish oil has none.
Posted by bubblegumchewer on November 23, 2002, at 11:58:40
In reply to Re: heavy metals in fish oil, posted by Larry Hoover on November 23, 2002, at 10:43:18
I knew I was in the right neighborhood. Oh well, the company I buy from has at least done a good marketing job by convincing me that their stuff is not rancid. Sure enough, the bottle contents never smell fishy. I keep it in the fridge. They try to make it smell lemony. But won't any fish oil produce a fish burp under the proper unfortunate circumstances? I've had few of them with this brand but the occasional one will occur.
When I first started with any-brand-off-the-health-food-store-shelf, the fish burps were ferocious. I suspected the capsules were not-so-fresh.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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