![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
What do you do if your depression is so bad that it encompasses your whole way of thinking? Like youve been so severely depressed for so long, that you think the whole world is basically a pile of shit? That people as a general rule suck. That people are not worth shit. That people fuck things up more times than they get it right.
Im just of the opinion that most people, at least in the USA, are worthless and lazy. I have the feeling and belief that many people including many medical professionals, do not do their jobs correctly or thoroughly. I also feel strongly that the particular Geographic area where I live, the Southeastern USA, is full of absolutely stupid, ignorant, dumbass people.
I feel that their is a very big case of "I dont give a shititis" in the world we live in. People are basically lazy.
I just feel that much of the old ways, where people took pride in their work is gone. Nowadays nobody gives a fuck about anything except themselves. Look at medicine...its totally corrupted by money, thats one of the main reasons there are so many complaints about it. Everything about it, the insurance/HMO end of it, the doctors themselves who think they all DESERVE to make $200,000 a year, the greedy pharmaceutical companies, etc. its just a pile of shit IMO. Just endless cynical feelings.Anyway, I find myself so cynical sometimes as to be burned up with hate almost. And this leads to depression feelings, hopelessness, a "who gives a shit" attitude. A feeling of why even bother, why try,, cause the world is a shitty place basically. Like many times I find myself thinking when Im talking to someone, "this person is an ignoramous I wish I lived up North still." Or I think "nobody around here is even worth knowing." Or "dont even talk to me, your a dumbass leave me alone."
What do you do when you find yourself at the point where you just about cant stand anybody? Youre nice to people to their face, but deep down inside you think they are not worth shit. Like you dont like anybody but yourself? And maybe your family and a few close friends? You think people suck.
Is this just the depression talking? Endless pessimism? Is this psychotic depression? Or do I just have a bad attitude from a rough life? Many times I wonder if Im crazy or psychotic.
Old School
Posted by beardedlady on March 25, 2002, at 18:56:01
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
Duh. Most people ARE stupid. Why was "Rosanne" so popular? That's America. Fat, lazy, stupid. The fact that you feel this way makes me think you're pretty normal.
beardy : )>
Posted by Bekka H. on March 25, 2002, at 19:28:16
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
Hi there, Old School,
I agree with almost everything you've said. I have felt that way so many times and, believe me, it's NOT just your part of the country. I live in the snobby Northeast, and I think it's even worse here. I've been to many of the so-called "Best Doctors in New York," and except for a handful, I am usually tempted to say, "Well, if that's the best, I'd hate to see what the worst is like." And it's not just medicine. Very few people take pride in their work anymore. There is so much sloppiness. I can't tell you how much time I have to spend on the phone each week, trying to correct other people's careless mistakes. It happens in every area of my life, whether it's arguing with medical insurance companies, car mechanics, the dry cleaners or the morons who work the cash register at the grocery store. Does it really take a high I.Q. to know that you don't pack soup cans on top of tomatoes in the grocery bag?!!! It's just common sense, but there is no common sense. Maybe the checkout girl/boy is stupid, maybe they don't care, or maybe they are just downright hostile. Who knows? Yes, life is so frustrating and difficult!!
One of my biggest complaints has to do with the number of physicians in New York who refuse to participate in managed care. If you look at those "Best Doctors" guides for other parts of the country, most of "the best" doctors do participate in some insurance plan or another, but in New York, most of "the best" refuse to belong. My father used to say to me, "Getting sick is only for the very rich and the very poor," and he was right. I have met a few wonderful physicians who are also wonderful human beings, but most of the doctors I meet are arrogant, greedy yuppies who have forgotten what it means to be a doctor. Being a physician is a privilege and a huge responsibility. It is a privilege to be allowed into a stranger's (i.e., a patient's) life, but most doctors don't treat it as such.
I don't know what the answer is. I am as angry as you are, but I'm trying very hard not to let it get me down as much as I used to. I know that we can't change other people, but we can TRY to change ourselves and the way we react to others. Recently, I came across Gandhi's words, and now I have those words posted on my bulletin board: "Be the change you wish to see in the world."
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2002, at 19:39:15
In reply to Re: Hate drug? » OldSchool, posted by beardedlady on March 25, 2002, at 18:56:01
You too beardy? I feel so sad for both of you. Where on earth do you meet people?
I guess I've met many people who are overweight. But I don't judge a person by the pound.
I guess I've met more than a few people who were not well educated, and more than a few that weren't blessed with high intelligence. But I try not to judge a person by IQ.
Most people I meet are decent souls who are doing their best with what they were given. I have met so many caring generous people, people who put me to shame on a regular basis. I don't have a lot in common with all of them, and I wouldn't necessarily want to be friends with all of them, but I can see something good in most of them. And I can feel compassion even for those people I really don't like.
I'm not some people-loving optimist either. My hero is Daria, and people like her. But it's possible to acknowledge that people are far short of perfect while still appreciating their basic humanity.
By the way, while I was no huge fan of Roseanne, I wouldn't write her and her family off as being merely fat, lazy, and stupid. They also showed caring, warmth, and humor. You could do a lot worse in an intellectual and svelte family.
Posted by Ritch on March 25, 2002, at 19:43:59
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
> What do you do if your depression is so bad that it encompasses your whole way of thinking? Like youve been so severely depressed for so long, that you think the whole world is basically a pile of shit? That people as a general rule suck. That people are not worth shit. That people fuck things up more times than they get it right.
>
> Im just of the opinion that most people, at least in the USA, are worthless and lazy. I have the feeling and belief that many people including many medical professionals, do not do their jobs correctly or thoroughly. I also feel strongly that the particular Geographic area where I live, the Southeastern USA, is full of absolutely stupid, ignorant, dumbass people.
>
> I feel that their is a very big case of "I dont give a shititis" in the world we live in. People are basically lazy.
> I just feel that much of the old ways, where people took pride in their work is gone. Nowadays nobody gives a fuck about anything except themselves. Look at medicine...its totally corrupted by money, thats one of the main reasons there are so many complaints about it. Everything about it, the insurance/HMO end of it, the doctors themselves who think they all DESERVE to make $200,000 a year, the greedy pharmaceutical companies, etc. its just a pile of shit IMO. Just endless cynical feelings.
>
> Anyway, I find myself so cynical sometimes as to be burned up with hate almost. And this leads to depression feelings, hopelessness, a "who gives a shit" attitude. A feeling of why even bother, why try,, cause the world is a shitty place basically. Like many times I find myself thinking when Im talking to someone, "this person is an ignoramous I wish I lived up North still." Or I think "nobody around here is even worth knowing." Or "dont even talk to me, your a dumbass leave me alone."
>
> What do you do when you find yourself at the point where you just about cant stand anybody? Youre nice to people to their face, but deep down inside you think they are not worth shit. Like you dont like anybody but yourself? And maybe your family and a few close friends? You think people suck.
>
> Is this just the depression talking? Endless pessimism? Is this psychotic depression? Or do I just have a bad attitude from a rough life? Many times I wonder if Im crazy or psychotic.
>
> Old School
OS,It really sounds a *lot* like dysphoric hypomania, or hypomanic rage (mixed-state-stuff). I have thought similar things a couple of hundred times for at least a few hours over the last quarter-century! The worst of it was always caused by certain antidepressants and other drugs. I think the worst episode of rage I ever experienced was Effexor+Prednisone or Remeron, or Buspar. There really is a scary violent element to it(I used to ruminate about violent stuff on those meds). I read some of your posts above about trying out some lithium and dumping the antidepressants. Hey, give it a try before you go for the ECT, OK?
well wishes,
Mitch
Posted by Mark H. on March 25, 2002, at 20:09:50
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
Dear Old School,
I certainly have experienced my version of what you're going through, and the very fact that it changes (because I'm bipolar) undercuts my entire experience of reality.
If "everything is awful" is not true, and "everything is better than wonderful" is not true, then what is true? In the end, I think each of us makes up our own story about reality, and to the extent that others share it, we imagine that we are "normal." I think that what passes for reality is a form of majority consensus, an agreement among people about the meaning of the experiences we share.
Like the old man in the children's tale with limburger cheese in his beard, I sometimes have found the world to smell bad everywhere I went. Severe depression was like that for me. I could start a sentence with totally positive intent, yet a few moments later, my words were full of despair and loathing. I felt like I had no control over my perceptions or my speech. The negativity seemed completely real, and the ability of my intellect to find and point out evidence to support my negativity didn't help at all.
What helped me was the right mix of medications. I've told this story so often that I'm afraid it must sound trite, but there was absolutely nothing subtle about the onset of my healing. After three years of experimenting with different augmentations, my doctor and I finally found the four drugs that (in combination) work for me. I felt like a huge, dark, suffocating stone had been lifted from my chest. I could not believe how small my world had become in those years. Within days, I could not remember with any immediacy what it had been like to be severely depressed. It was as though it had happened to someone else.
Yet the damage was done, and getting the depression off of me was only the beginning. Habits of mind are powerful and resist change mightily.
Besides three additional years of therapy, the other thing that helped me was remembering that my perception of reality is never truly objective or accurate. At first this was a source of discouragement -- if I can't trust my own perceptions, what can I trust? But over time I also realized that it gave me great freedom and the power to change my depression-damaged mind.
While habits of mind are strong, I think my mind itself is relatively gullible and easily directed. After all, it fell for the gloominess of depression and then projected that gloominess all over my experience of life. Why not make up a new story, one more in keeping with what I want and value? If my perception of the "truth" is unfounded, ever-changing, circumstantial and relative, why not select a "fiction" more in keeping with what I most cherish?
So I started practicing looking for the positive and useful, for the perfection that is already there (except for my flawed perception). There are lots of ways to do this. I read the paper and watch the news less. I decide not to see some types of movies. I try to remember that we're all in the same boat, that everyone has pain and loss, along with joy and achievement. I try to notice when I have strong aversions or attachments to people or circumstances, and remind myself that everything is always changing, especially me. Since I'm never "right," at least I can be positive, encouraging and kind. I can extend the benefit of the doubt. I can stretch my limited compassion to include ever more people and circumstances, even myself.
It's all a work in progress, but I'm less attached to the outcome than I used to be. For me, sadness is a long way up from depression. I feel sad frequently now, and I welcome it. It means my heart is opening a little. As I have allowed myself to be OK with being sad, I have also experienced much, much more joy. I have good days and days I judge myself worthless -- but even those labels are inherently empty, and (paradoxically) the less I apply them, the more competent I become.
Counteracting my anger and hatred required making up new stories, "tricking" my mind into believing in something better. That it worked seems like a miracle to me, but it also reminds me that I have to be vigilant if I'm not to fall back into old, well established habits.
With what you are experiencing right now, Old School, I don't know if what I'm writing here makes sense or seems like gibberish to you -- you're OK with me either way. What I'd like to suggest, though, is that you consider approaching it empirically, as an experiment, with as light a heart as you can muster, treating it like a game rather than as the serious business of life.
Don't give up on yourself or the world. There are good people right where you live (as well as stinkers, of course). Forgive the stinkers and focus on the good, if you can. Heaven and hell are just two blocks apart in the small town in which I work every day, sometimes even in the same block for two different people. More and more, I'm choosing to live in a safe, happy, productive world peopled with noble, caring, honest and sincere people. As always, I'm finding what I expect to see.
In friendship,
Mark H.
Posted by Krazy Kat on March 25, 2002, at 20:21:18
In reply to Re: Hate drug? » OldSchool, posted by Ritch on March 25, 2002, at 19:43:59
Old School:
My guess is most of us on this board consider ourselves "above" the normal chum - how else are we to handle our vast differences? Of course, major depression likes to toy with our low self-esteem (or mine at least), so it's rarely for a long period that i feel particularly bright.
i AM lazy. this comes from genetics, nuture, and this illness. i could care less (anymore - i was highly competitive when younger) if i succeed at something the world has decided is worthy. i have become quite a taoist in my philosophy (note, it's My philosophy, not meant to be any one else's).
i am not fat, but that is purely due to a high metabolism which is slowly slowing down b/c of these darn meds.
Mitch mentions "ruminating" and that is a very telling word. i have Lots of trouble with ruminating thoughts. they are usually quite "evil" and disturbing. the mood stabilizers i have tried have all helped with that - depakote the best.
it seems to me from your post that these "raging feelings" have a mind of their own. you're losing your objectivity due to their persistence.
i hate to answer all mental problems with meds, but it sounds like you might benefit from a drug that can hush these puppies up, something that helps with thought patterns.
on a non-med note, there are many horrific things in this world. there are also many beautiful things. my parents choose to see our lives as a suffering mass, a time to worship and witness for God, and Christ. Our reward is supposed to be in heaven, and consequently they tend to see mostly the murders, and the stupidity, and the pain.
you can choose to focus on the enlightening aspects instead - education, learning for learning's sake, appreciation of the sciences, appreciation of the arts. animals are Way up on my list because they are so freeing. but you already know this. else you wouldn't have posted an inquiry about a way to find it.
- KK
Posted by fachad on March 25, 2002, at 20:30:42
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
So, OldSchool, how "Old School" are you, really?
I am a student of medieval alchemy as well as modern psychopharmacology. Here's a quote from Michael Maier's "Secrets of Alchemy" published in about 1625 C.E.:
"After spending the best part of my life in the study of the liberal arts and sciences, and in the company of wise men and judicious scholars, I was compelled, as the result of my observation of mankind, to arrive at the melancholy conclusion that the hearts of most persons are set either on ambitious and vainglorious projects, on sensual pleasures, or on the accumulation of wealth by all and any means; and that few care either for God or for virtue. At first I did not quite know whether to become a disciple of the laughing or of the weeping philosopher...”
And all that before electricity, cars, atomic weapons and HMO’s even existed!
> What do you do if your depression is so bad that it encompasses your whole way of thinking? Like youve been so severely depressed for so long, that you think the whole world is basically a pile of shit? That people as a general rule suck. That people are not worth shit. That people fuck things up more times than they get it right.
>
> Im just of the opinion that most people, at least in the USA, are worthless and lazy. I have the feeling and belief that many people including many medical professionals, do not do their jobs correctly or thoroughly. I also feel strongly that the particular Geographic area where I live, the Southeastern USA, is full of absolutely stupid, ignorant, dumbass people.
>
> I feel that their is a very big case of "I dont give a shititis" in the world we live in. People are basically lazy.
> I just feel that much of the old ways, where people took pride in their work is gone. Nowadays nobody gives a fuck about anything except themselves. Look at medicine...its totally corrupted by money, thats one of the main reasons there are so many complaints about it. Everything about it, the insurance/HMO end of it, the doctors themselves who think they all DESERVE to make $200,000 a year, the greedy pharmaceutical companies, etc. its just a pile of shit IMO. Just endless cynical feelings.
>
> Anyway, I find myself so cynical sometimes as to be burned up with hate almost. And this leads to depression feelings, hopelessness, a "who gives a shit" attitude. A feeling of why even bother, why try,, cause the world is a shitty place basically. Like many times I find myself thinking when Im talking to someone, "this person is an ignoramous I wish I lived up North still." Or I think "nobody around here is even worth knowing." Or "dont even talk to me, your a dumbass leave me alone."
>
> What do you do when you find yourself at the point where you just about cant stand anybody? Youre nice to people to their face, but deep down inside you think they are not worth shit. Like you dont like anybody but yourself? And maybe your family and a few close friends? You think people suck.
>
> Is this just the depression talking? Endless pessimism? Is this psychotic depression? Or do I just have a bad attitude from a rough life? Many times I wonder if Im crazy or psychotic.
>
> Old School
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 25, 2002, at 22:32:41
In reply to ruminating..., posted by Krazy Kat on March 25, 2002, at 20:21:18
> Mitch mentions "ruminating" and that is a very telling word. i have Lots of trouble with ruminating thoughts. they are usually quite "evil" and disturbing. the mood stabilizers i have tried have all helped with that - depakote the best.
> i hate to answer all mental problems with meds, but it sounds like you might benefit from a drug that can hush these puppies up, something that helps with thought patterns.
They're certainly not the answer to all mental problems, but they *are* the focus of this board...
Bob
Posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 23:06:58
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
I need a med for "archie bunker" syndrome. yeah...thats it.
Old school
Posted by Zo on March 26, 2002, at 3:35:13
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
You know, Mark is really onto something. Since my lifelong depression abruptly ended last September, after my first episode of *aggressively* Mixed States. . .I find myself not watching TV (except for HBO!) and not reading a lot of the daily dose of crap we've come to take for granted in this society.
And I've watched my own world view be turned upside down, over and over again, over the years. . .What it comes down to, Old School, is what do you really *want* to believe, for yourself. I chose to put more stock in the Good, even when things were unrelievedly rotten, because it only hurt *more*. . .it didn't help me in the least. . .to live in cynicism. And I was badly ripped off, by the man I thought was my husband, when I was too low to have noticed. But hey, I realized he would have really finished the job if I lived in that awful emotional space, of being ripped off, by low-life pond scum. (Is pond scum one word?)
LAMICTAL! I wuz gonna get on yr. case on another thread, haven't you tried Lamictal?! When it was addded to my (long-standing( Effexor and Dex-- thus endeth my depression.
Joy,
Zo
Posted by Zo on March 26, 2002, at 3:36:05
In reply to Re: Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 23:06:58
Posted by colin wallace on March 26, 2002, at 4:10:15
In reply to Re: Awww, ya Meathead (nm) » OldSchool, posted by Zo on March 26, 2002, at 3:36:05
Old School,
You remind me way too much of myself;for some obscure reason, that makes me laugh.I'm trying heard to unravel that same self-defeating cynicism in myself.Laughter sustains me.I could always laugh at my own absurdities, even when I was seriously contemplating flinging myself off a high parapet.I'd have a beer (or three) with you any day, and I'd bet even you would crack a grin at some point.
Seiously, good luck with the ECT.If I ever suffer a serious relapse, I plan to go that route too, without hesitation.Col.
Posted by pedr on March 26, 2002, at 4:24:55
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
Oldschool,
I used to think exactly the same as you. I used to hate everyone [including myself] for being lazy, ignorant western tossers - ignoring the plight of the environment and the third world. Owning a car was enough for me to be disgusted with someone - how could someone be so selfish as to spend 30 grand on a car when they could give that to charity? - they don't *really* need a car, they could get a cheap scooter or bicycle.I no longer think that way. This is because I've found meds that make me less depressed. It was not a rational part of my personality, it was a powerful mental illness distorting my view of life. I strongly suspect that should you find meds that lift you out of the horrid murk that you are in, you will find your opinions changing and become more balanced. It happens without effort on your behalf.
That's how it was for me anyway.
Cheers,
pete
Posted by beardedlady on March 26, 2002, at 6:04:49
In reply to Re: That is the saddest thing I've ever heard. » beardedlady, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2002, at 19:39:15
Oh, Dinah! That's just ridiculous! It's perfectly okay not to be enamored of the human race. I treat everyone with respect and compassion; I find that most people don't treat each other that way.
In my post office the other day (yes, always count on the post office for a good glimpse of human race), one of the cashiers was asked for change by a woman who had just bought something. She said, "I don't have any change to give you." The woman said, "Well, I could have paid with my ten and gotten change, but I forgot I needed it." "Then you should've paid with your ten," the cashier replied.
Bear with me, Dr. Bob. Meds are coming!
Next, a woman walked in with a tiny dog in her arms--tiny! The other cashier said, loudly, "You can't bring the dog in." The woman said, "She's just a tiny baby, and I can't leave her alone in my car. Can I please get a stamp?" "Ma'am, I will not wait on you with a dog. There's a sign on the door." (If you think the cashier was being polite and following the rules, you didn't hear her tone of voice and see the expression on her face.) Now I know about rules, and I would be one (a dog lover) to bend them, but that's not what I'm talking about. A compassionate response, a kind response, a friendly tone of voice and a reply, "I'm sorry, Ma'am. I am not allowed to wait on you with a dog, no matter how tiny."
This box in front of me, this ugly glaring screen, is responsible for so many woes. People spend so much time in front of it (and the television--blech!) that they don't know how to interact with one another in public! People don't want to share their spaces on this earth. They want everything around them to be a cubicle all their own.
And I don't think my comments really qualify as "judging." I'm not looking at a fat person and saying, "Ew, you are fat." (I am fat! I go to Weight Watchers right now because my pregnancy fat won't go away, especially with this med.) (Meds, Dr. Bob! More to come!) I'm talking about the combo--fat, lazy, stupid. Members of my family are severly overweight, but they work hard and conscientiously and are smart.
But this country has a fast food mentality. Our children our getting type 2 diabetes at an alarming rate. Parents are killing their children (and their pets!) with crap food because they don't want to hurt their kids' feelings! There's some of the fat, lazy, stupid that I'm talking about.
As for "Rosanne": funny show, rude people. They treated each other with humor but without kindness. They ate crap. They watched crap. And they didn't do crap with their kids.
In spite of the fact that I SOUND like a misanthrope, I am not. I have a trillion friends! Okay, maybe not a trillion. But I had 200 people at my wedding, and 75 of them were close friends. I am one of the first instructors of my course to fill a class. And I meet new people and make new friends all the time.
I think I know who Daria is (an MTV cartoon?). You would probably find that I am just like her. I don't go outside every day seething with contempt for the human race, but I don't find anything redeeming about the humanity of people who are just plain rude, who throw trash out their car windows while cutting you off and talking on their cell phones, who can't say excuse me or thank you or please.
(For Dr. Bob) They need to take a pill! (Or else we can get Hannibal Lechter to eat them!)
Anyway, the point of my post was that there is nothing chemically or physically wrong with most of the people who feel this way. We are simply elitists!
beardy : )>
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 26, 2002, at 18:33:10
In reply to Misanthropy? Sad? » Dinah, posted by beardedlady on March 26, 2002, at 6:04:49
> Oh, Dinah! That's just ridiculous! It's perfectly okay not to be enamored of the human race...
Sorry, but discussion not about medication should really go to PSB:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020325/msgs/20951.html
Bob
PS: And discussion about posting policies should go to PBA, thanks.
Posted by OldSchool on March 26, 2002, at 21:35:24
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
I think some of you got the wrong idea about what I was saying. I feel sooooo guilty a lot of the time, like Ive done something bad but another part of my brain knows I have done nothing wrong. But I feel super guilty for no reason, but Im educated enough to know that is clinical depression and the disease plays tricks on your mind, makes you feel guilty for no reason, etc.
But when you roll all this into one...the guilt, the cant sleep good thing, you feel like shit all the time, you cant think clearly to hold a job, you cant work...you just feel grumpy and feel like you wanna tell the world to fuck off. But you dont, you just suck it up and stay depressed.
Sometimes I feel so guilty I almost feel persecuted for no damn reason whatsoever, which is really bad and I dont tell my psychiatrist that. I know Im psychotic. Like Im a bad person, youre a bad person, the world is a bunch of shit, etc. etc. etc. Im worthless, people are worthless, whats the fucking point of even being here?
Course I dont really believe it, cause there is another side to my brain that recognizes this stuff is untrue and from the depression. But I wonder if someday I will just like have a brain meltdown and start thinking Im a bad person for real. Then I wonder what would happen to me. Maybe become a street person or something.
Posted by Mr.Scott on March 26, 2002, at 21:59:11
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
Old School,
I like you a lot. I even find your argumentative angry old man style perfectly cool, I also know that deep below your abrasive exterior that you're not half the beast you might have some believe. Your just pissed off at being so unhappy which i agree wholeheartedly has everything to do with chemicals. At the same time, and I know you'll rebuke me for saying so have you done any serious cognitive therapy along with the meds. I'm not suggesting miracles, but it could help.
Scott
Posted by trouble on March 26, 2002, at 22:23:57
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
Hey Old School,
I believe that was the first post of yours I've seen where you talked about your inner life. I feel more connected to you now, I do think about you alot, have more internal debates w/you than anyone else on the board.
I've been a rage-a-holic most of my life, and much like the others it was stone cold medication to the rescue. I'm still really mad, but nothing like the reckless endangerment I used to pose.You know I go for the non-linear shit, so if I lose ya here, point taken, no disrespect.
I believe the human Soul exists for a reason, though it is by definition a dark place. I believe we are supposed to bow to our Soul and find out what it wants, and if our entire being should fall into descent that's the price we pay for peering into the abyss.
I falled, straight down, for so fucking long I couldn't help but learn a few things. Most of it sucked.
All of it sucked. Years. People saying Hi how ya doin, I'd look square in the eye and answer "I am in hell. Hell is other people. I got that from a book. You ever read a BOOK?" I dare you to kill me.I don't want to kill people anymore, I don't even wanna hurt them, much. I don't really want to know what changed beyond taking my meds and going to therapy twice a week for twenty-one years.
My Soul's still crackin and fackin on what's going down, and I appreciate that, I say Good Soul, what marvelous critical gifts you bring me, the stomach you got for absolute clarity, you're my weapon, my ridicule, my dementia, my meanstreak, you've worked your way into my bones and I'll never deny you, it's safe for you to let go of the wheel now, your scrawny little step-sister, Spirit wants in on the act, places she's been waiting to go, up, high, light, somewhere, airy, don't ask me I'm just the chronicler, numbers cruncher looking at the balance sheet "dark night of descent-paid in full," one more outstanding debt to go, and it is an obligation, a balance due, fair is fair, looks like some sort of yin/yang thang, earned the old fashioned way, blood, sweat, tears, and well worth it.
do keep me posted,
trouble
Posted by trouble on March 26, 2002, at 22:37:30
In reply to Re: Hate drug? » OldSchool, posted by Mr.Scott on March 26, 2002, at 21:59:11
Posted by Elizabeth on March 27, 2002, at 0:26:28
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
> Im just of the opinion that most people, at least in the USA, are worthless and lazy. I have the feeling and belief that many people including many medical professionals, do not do their jobs correctly or thoroughly. I also feel strongly that the particular Geographic area where I live, the Southeastern USA, is full of absolutely stupid, ignorant, dumbass people.
I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but I'm not depressed anymore and I still believe all of those things.
Seriously -- feeling hostile and irritable can be part of depression. It's easy to misattribute this to "personality" or "attitude" or whatever, but I think it's probably a basically emotional problem. I'd expect any effective antidepressant to help, perhaps even to eliminate the hostile feelings entirely (although there really isn't a cure for the fact that most people really are stupid :-) ). At the very least, an effective AD (I'm counting ECT as an AD) would take the edge off and give you a chance to make room for some pleasant thoughts.
-elizabeth
Posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 0:55:54
In reply to Re: Hate drug? » OldSchool, posted by Mr.Scott on March 26, 2002, at 21:59:11
At the same time, and I know you'll rebuke me for saying so, have you done any serious cognitive therapy along with the meds. I'm not suggesting miracles, but it could help.
>
> Scott
*************************************************Hi. I guess what I was trying to say toward the end of my previous post was similar to what Mr. Scott said.
We can't change others, but we CAN change how we react to others so that we DON'T ALLOW THE OTHERS TO GET US DOWN! I think Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can help in that regard. I really like that quotation by Gandhi, "Be the change you wish to see in the world." We don't have to lower ourselves to the level of the behavior of others. Eventually, we will find a few people who are like us, and they can provide companionship, and that companionship can serve as a buffer between us and that exasperating and often-cruel world out there.Bekka
Posted by trouble on March 27, 2002, at 1:58:44
In reply to Re: Hate drug? - Old School, Mr. Scott, posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 0:55:54
"My most formidable opponent is a man
named Mohandas K. Ghandi. With him I seem
to have very little influence."Mohandas K. Ghandi
Posted by Bekka H. on March 27, 2002, at 2:12:17
In reply to Bekka, get a load of this too though, posted by trouble on March 27, 2002, at 1:58:44
>
> "My most formidable opponent is a man
> named Mohandas K. Ghandi. With him I seem
> to have very little influence."
>
> Mohandas K. Ghandi************************************************
Aha! I knew you'd cause Trouble! Well, I guess I'll have to go searching for a buffer that I can place between me, myself and I. But thank you anyway for that terrific quotation.
Posted by JohnX2 on March 27, 2002, at 4:10:28
In reply to Hate drug?, posted by OldSchool on March 25, 2002, at 18:43:51
I did a group therapy once and a lady asked me if I thought I was arrogant. I was taken aback. I later asked a friend in the group who happened to live at my apartment complex what she thought and she that people were intimidated by the fact that they "did not understand the words I used" (my vocabulary?). I was not intentionally using words I believed they may not comprehend.Their perception: I am arrogant?? (SHOCKED me that they interpreted any intellegence as a put down).
Should I believe they are stupid in return?
Would "dumbing" down my vocabulary imply that I feel less of these people's intellegence? Or should I treat them as equals and continue to use my every day speech (which isn't awesome, shit I'm no English Major)?Hmmm....
John
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